How to deal with an argument in brand new relationship?

[Chocolat]

Interesting. I do think some people get snappish, but I don't think "Don't criticize" is the right tact to take. The criticism is often still valid; just poorly worded. I would urge the OP to get past the wording and to the meat of the criticism. Because the only way you feel better about yourself is with real change IMO; not with coddling.

 

I didn't think I was advocating "don't criticize." And I am in complete agreement that the only way to feel better -- to actually get better -- is with change, not coddling.

 

But just as coddling is ineffective, so too is character bashing, and I see far more of the latter (not by you ZG) in OG's threads. Few, if any, of us are able to "hear" constructive criticism when it is presented as part of an attack. In counseling, for instance, couples are advised to focus on actions and not character traits -- "It bothers me when you leave the socks on the floor" is more effective than "You're a lazy slob who can't be bothered to pick up his socks." People shut down (and shut out) when they feel under attack. So the posters who are using this approach with OG and then claiming they are doing so only because they know her so well seem, well, a little disingenuous. Again, this is not directed at you ZG. But it is something I see in this thread and in others.

[Jannah]

I really don't understand your "keep your opinions to yourself" stance? You seem to be advocating for the diary approach again...? That OG and anyone else post their problem(s), and no one else should comment on it or offer advice, such as advising that seeing a therapist would be helpful? What's the point of a forum, if not to share ideas about how to resolve a problem?

 

There's nothing inherently inflammatory about suggesting someone see a professional therapist to grapple with the issues of the sort she's experienced in her childhood and is experiencing now in adulthood. As I said, everyone can benefit from therapy - every single one of us.

 

Okay. It started at post number such and such, when a post reply referred to the OP as a nutjob. The theme of the thread then took on a familiar fashion, of how the OP would benefit from therapy, because she is "this this and that"....

 

I think it is safe to say, that the majority of her threads, contain critiques of her character and behavior, why still do it? Keep critiquing her all you want, but in doing so, realize you are taking form of the very person who has been overly critical towards her for most of her life.....

[zengirl]

I didn't think I was advocating "don't criticize." And I am in complete agreement that the only way to feel better -- to actually get better -- is with change, not coddling.

 

Oh, no I didn't think you were advocating it! Just speaking to those who were. To be clear.

[Jannah]

Interesting. I do think some people get snappish, but I don't think "Don't criticize" is the right tact to take. The criticism is often still valid; just poorly worded. I would urge the OP to get past the wording and to the meat of the criticism. Because the only way you feel better about yourself is with real change IMO; not with coddling.

 

 

 

I guess I find it a bit arrogant for someone to say what is or isn't within the scope of a particular thread. At any rate, this is getting too boards-on-boards for me, so it's my last word on the matter.

 

I only drew arrogant in response to a comment that was made and what began to ensue thereafter. I hope OP and her boyfriend move forward and they resolve their argument, I know most of us do too.

[Star Gazer]

I think it is safe to say, that the majority of her threads, contain critiques of her character and behavior, why still do it? Keep critiquing her all you want, but in doing so, realize you are taking form of the very person who has been overly critical towards her for most of her life.....

 

Sooooo.... Because OG was criticized about her weight as a child, she should be immune from criticism about her behavior? Does everyone who was criticized as a child get the same immunity? If so, where's mine?!?

 

But really... What do you suggest, Jannah? That she be free to start thread after thread and receive nothing but head pats and applause? And if no one is able to do that, should everyone just remain silent?

 

I mean that honestly, because what you're suggesting sounds a lot like "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all," which may make sense IRL where opinions aren't solicited, but hardly makes sense when advice on a forum is actively sought.

[SmileFace]

Wow, I think Ocean is the only person who can have an active thread with out actually being active in it. You go Ocean Girl(Glen Cocoa)!

[Kamille]

Why criticize?

 

I told OG I disagreed with how she expressed her frustration, but I didn't turn my disagreement with her actions into a criticism of her character.

 

There's a difference between giving and opinion and criticizing someone.

[Star Gazer]

I didn't think I was advocating "don't criticize." And I am in complete agreement that the only way to feel better -- to actually get better -- is with change, not coddling.

 

But just as coddling is ineffective, so too is character bashing, and I see far more of the latter (not by you ZG) in OG's threads. Few, if any, of us are able to "hear" constructive criticism when it is presented as part of an attack. In counseling, for instance, couples are advised to focus on actions and not character traits -- "It bothers me when you leave the socks on the floor" is more effective than "You're a lazy slob who can't be bothered to pick up his socks." People shut down (and shut out) when they feel under attack. So the posters who are using this approach with OG and then claiming they are doing so only because they know her so well seem, well, a little disingenuous. Again, this is not directed at you ZG. But it is something I see in this thread and in others.

 

I'm curious who you're talking about, but I'm pretty sure I know.

 

As you know, the worst statement made about OG was that she was pathologically selfish (using an 'informal' definition), and that statement was actually made by ZG. Several people agreed with her. But of course you must be referring to someone else.

 

I respect and think highly of ZG's opinions and posting style, so that's no criticism of her, but of the peanut gallery of "observers" and their critique and focus on certain posters' posting style RATHER than on where it should be: the very person who started this thread.

[threebyfate]

Exactly Kamille! Giving advice and opinion is very different from ripping someone a new one.

[Star Gazer]

There's a difference between giving and opinion and criticizing someone.

 

Honest question: If someone's "opinion" is that a repeated pattern of selfish behavior is very bad and needs correction, and that an SO has every right to be upset when they behave that way, how would you suggest they communicate that without saying...just that?

[Lovelybird]

Wow, I think Ocean is the only person who can have an active thread with out actually being active in it. You go Ocean Girl(Glen Cocoa)!

indeed. That is a talent.

 

I wonder why though

[Kamille]

Here you are:

 

I notice you may have a repeated pattern of behavior. I understand how your SO might be upset by this.

 

There's really no reason to judge the behavior or act as though we know how the SO feels and behaves.

 

Also, OG is an adult as am I. Many have said they're against coddling. I'm fully on board. I don't think it is up to me to decide where her behavior needs "correction". I can point out ways that could improve her relationships which is much more empowering than "correcting" her. How she takes on the advice, or not, is up to her. She is, after all, responsible for herself.

[Chocolat]

I respect and think highly of ZG's opinions and posting style, so that's no criticism of her, but of the peanut gallery of "observers" and their critique and focus on certain posters' posting style RATHER than on where it should be: the very person who started this thread.

 

We are in agrement with regard to ZenGirl.

 

This thread has (d)evolved from the OP and the topic of posting style was very much alive. Regardless, I think it is naive to think that content can be evaluated in a vacuum. Posting style has a lot to do with how (or whether) we are heard and perceived. Perhaps some people can "hear" advice that comes with a dose of disdain and judgement, but most people cannot. If the goal is to help OG, then considering one's style is a necessary part of the goal.

[Jannah]

Sooooo.... Because OG was criticized about her weight as a child, she should be immune from criticism about her behavior? Does everyone who was criticized as a child get the same immunity? If so, where's mine?!?

 

But really... What do you suggest, Jannah? That she be free to start thread after thread and receive nothing but head pats and applause? And if no one is able to do that, should everyone just remain silent?

 

I mean that honestly, because what you're suggesting sounds a lot like "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all," which may make sense IRL where opinions aren't solicited, but hardly makes sense when advice on a forum is actively sought.

 

Huh? Where was weight mentioned in the initial post thread?

[sb129]

Posting style has a lot to do with how (or whether) we are heard and perceived. Perhaps some people can "hear" advice that comes with a dose of disdain and judgement, but most people cannot. If the goal is to help OG, then considering one's style is a necessary part of the goal.

 

This is a very good point, and one that I will endeavour to consider in future.

 

FWIW I like your posting style Chocolat. I would value your contributions to my threads.

[A O]

It asked for advise concerning an arguement she had with her boyfriend.

This argument is simply a symptom of a far greater problem. Now we can continually address each problem as it comes, as has been the case here for a long time now or we can deal to the root cause itself.

 

The focus should be on helping OG, not everyone else's baggage, insecurities or personal value systems.

Its the baggage of many who have had similar experiences or backgrounds to the likes of OG who in fact - keep her suspended in this state of perpetual disillusionment that she's in. Many like this think that they can help her. But time has shown that their actions have simply trapped her in dating/relationship frustration. She will not seek the type of qualified help that she needs while she has so many like-minded people to lean on.

 

 

 

 

.

[Jannah]

This argument is simply a symptom of a far greater problem. Now we can continually address each problem as it comes, as has been the case here for a long time now or we can deal to the root cause itself.

 

OP can identify the root cause for herself.

[Star Gazer]

Huh? Where was weight mentioned in the initial post thread?

 

The criticism of her mother was about her weight/body.

 

I answered your question. Can you please answer mine? I've asked politely several times now.

 

If you think OG can "identify the root cause" of her problems herself, and doesn't need advice, doesn't need to hear anyone's opinion, then what the heck is she doing here? Why does this forum exist if none of us need/want help/advice from others?

[A O]

OP can identify the root cause for herself.

OG knows what the root cause is, many folk here do as well. But she isn't interested in doing anything about it and neither does she have to when she gets so much support here. She's free to carry on wrecking her (dating/relationship) life and anyone who passes through it while she's got so many folk here to lean on, to give her strength to carry on doing the same thing over and over and over again. Now that's just sad.

 

 

.

Edited February 3, 2011 by A O

[Jannah]

If you think OG can "identify the root cause" of her problems herself, and doesn't need advice, doesn't need to hear anyone's opinion, then what the heck is she doing here? Why does this forum exist if none of us need/want help/advice from others?

 

Maybe she can, maybe she can't - in the end, that's for her to identify and decide. But that wasn't her initial question in this thread, this was:

 

I don't want to post details but I had an argument with the bf over the weekend. I did something that he thought was inconsiderate. I have since apologized and tried to talk it out with him. We had a brief chat and he told me that he has forgiven me.

 

However, it doesn't seem like he has. He is definitely much more distant. He still called me tonight like he always does but he just sounded flat and told me he had to go after 5 minutes. During the brief conversation, he told me that he has thought about me today. I told him "me too" and he said "Really? Or are you just saying that?" I said "Really, are you just saying that?" he replied with "If I didn't think about you obviously I wouldn't have called you" in a snappy voice. Then he ended with "I will call you tomorrow unless you don't want me to" WTF.

 

After this conversation I sent him a text "I really did think about you today Let's chat tomorrow"

 

He responded with "Yeah, sorry about my mood I am just busy with work, speak soon"

 

Basically, I am not sure if he is genuinely busy or still pissed with me about the argument. He was busy last week too but he was never snappy with me like this

 

What's my best course of action?

 

a) Bring up the argument and try to resolve it but then again this may cause more drama...

 

b) Ride this out and pretend to buy the busy excuse. Then try to reconnect over the weekend (which we have plans to spend together).

[Tony]

If more than a half billion people with Internet access can't deal with one small question in 127 replies, then I'd say the world is nearly at an end. Nite folks! Thanks to all those who stayed courteous and on topic.