How to deal with an argument in brand new relationship?

[zengirl]

Self-reflection can be scary to some precisely because as a result of a dysfunctional childhood, they grew up to believe there was something fundamentally wrong with them. In their mind, self-reflection might reveal their worst fears to be true. Again, this is where a good therapist can do wonders.

 

Totally agree that sometimes you need help to get through those scary phases, whether it be from a therapist, a support group, a church, or whatever other sources are available. For me, it was Buddhist monks and retreats. Everyone takes a different path.

 

At some point, OG is going to have to invest a lot more in herself, and that's going to require some sincere (and constructive) criticism from inside and out. That's all I'm saying. And not because I dislike her or think she's abnormal, or has something fundamentally wrong with her, but because that's usually a step it takes for unhappy people (people who are more prone to it than to happiness, I mean, which she seems to be) to become happy.

[TheBigQuestion]

Why is everything all about right or wrong, good or bad for you? It all ends up being what YOU value and not what anyone else values. Time for you to start opening up your narrow field of vision and realize that not everyone wants to be or think like you. Straight up, I know for fact that I would rather slit my wrists.

 

You're so hypercritical when you're so far from perfect that it's beyond laughable. The way you nitpick at OG, northern sky and lauriebelle is appallingly abusive behaviour. I honestly can't understand why Tony hasn't permanently banned you for your abuse.

 

The point is that posters like OG and northern_sky have issues that are simply beyond the scope of what anyone on a message board can assist them with. Those two in particular are fantastic at enabling each other's dysfunctional tendencies and reducing, if not flat out eliminating, responsibility for their actions.

 

Having anxiety issues, depression, a dysfunctional upbringing, or a personality disorder is NOT, and NEVER has been, an excuse for poor behavior. That is mamby-pamby, PC nonsense that only serves to glorify victimhood. They are explanations for poor behavior that need to be PROPERLY addressed, and the two them being buddies in misery is NOT the way to go about it. Both posters have been posting on here for years and are absolutely terrible at following advice except for the dysfunctional and counterproductive advice they give each other. Many, many posters are absolutely fed up with having this pattern not only displayed but CELEBRATED by a select few posters.

 

Are you condoning northern_sky's assertion that it's a "Great idea" to "practice" relationship skills on a guy in some sort of purposeful or calculated matter? That's one of the most manipulative and nigh sociopathic implications ever posted on this board.

 

No poster on LS is perfect, but a good majority of them recognize that if you post something that makes you look a completely heartless, rude, and inconsiderate person, you WILL get flak for it, and deservedly so. Especially if the person posting has a long history of refusing to seek professional help and a willful ignorance of other advice posted on this board.

[threebyfate]

The point is that posters like OG and northern_sky have issues that are simply beyond the scope of what anyone on a message board can assist them with. Those two in particular are fantastic at enabling each other's dysfunctional tendencies and reducing, if not flat out eliminating, responsibility for their actions.

 

Having anxiety issues, depression, a dysfunctional upbringing, or a personality disorder is NOT, and NEVER has been, an excuse for poor behavior. That is mamby-pamby, PC nonsense that only serves to glorify victimhood. They are explanations for poor behavior that need to be PROPERLY addressed, and the two them being buddies in misery is NOT the way to go about it. Both posters have been posting on here for years and are absolutely terrible at following advice except for the dysfunctional and counterproductive advice they give each other. Many, many posters are absolutely fed up with having this pattern not only displayed but CELEBRATED by a select few posters.

 

Are you condoning northern_sky's assertion that it's a "Great idea" to "practice" relationship skills on a guy in some sort of purposeful or calculated matter? That's one of the most manipulative and nigh sociopathic implications ever posted on this board.

 

No poster on LS is perfect, but a good majority of them recognize that if you post something that makes you look a completely heartless, rude, and inconsiderate person, you WILL get flak for it, and deservedly so. Especially if the person posting has a long history of refusing to seek professional help and a willful ignorance of other advice posted on this board.

Consider your perspective. This is about your views, values and personal sensitivities since neither OG or northern sky have directed their comments to you personally.

 

In some ways, I think both OG and ns are more honest when posting their opinions than some of the cookie cutter advice I've seen come from others who've personally acted in the exact same or far, far worse manner.

 

When giving advice, perhaps people should leave their own baggage and insecurities at the door prior to giving any. This is something that I've finally learned and fully believe now, although it can be challenging to maintain objectivity at all times.

[Star Gazer]

The point is that posters like OG and northern_sky have issues that are simply beyond the scope of what anyone on a message board can assist them with. Those two in particular are fantastic at enabling each other's dysfunctional tendencies and reducing, if not flat out eliminating, responsibility for their actions.

 

Having anxiety issues, depression, a dysfunctional upbringing, or a personality disorder is NOT, and NEVER has been, an excuse for poor behavior. That is mamby-pamby, PC nonsense that only serves to glorify victimhood. They are explanations for poor behavior that need to be PROPERLY addressed, and the two them being buddies in misery is NOT the way to go about it. Both posters have been posting on here for years and are absolutely terrible at following advice except for the dysfunctional and counterproductive advice they give each other. Many, many posters are absolutely fed up with having this pattern not only displayed but CELEBRATED by a select few posters.

 

Are you condoning northern_sky's assertion that it's a "Great idea" to "practice" relationship skills on a guy in some sort of purposeful or calculated matter? That's one of the most manipulative and nigh sociopathic implications ever posted on this board.

 

No poster on LS is perfect, but a good majority of them recognize that if you post something that makes you look a completely heartless, rude, and inconsiderate person, you WILL get flak for it, and deservedly so. Especially if the person posting has a long history of refusing to seek professional help and a willful ignorance of other advice posted on this board.

 

Great post, BQ. You summed it up perfectly, and for the large majority of us, you're preaching to the choir!

[zengirl]

Consider your perspective. This is about your views, values and personal sensitivities since neither OG or northern sky have directed their comments to you personally.

 

In some ways, I think both OG and ns are more honest when posting their opinions than some of the cookie cutter advice I've seen come from others who've personally acted in the exact same or far, far worse manner.

 

When giving advice, perhaps people should leave their own baggage and insecurities at the door prior to giving any. This is something that I've finally learned and fully believe now, although it can be challenging to maintain objectivity at all times.

 

It's one thing to leave baggage at the door. I don't think anybody's baggage is an issue here (obviously you do, but I don't see where you're getting that. . . in fact: Weren't you the one who brought up "baggage" such as OG's childhood or whatnot?). However, asking people to leave all their value judgments at the door is silly. If we cannot discern good from bad behavior, productive behavior from unproductive behavior, and assess problem areas, then there's no point in giving or asking for advice at ALL.

 

I think TheBigQuestion hit a lot of it on the head, frankly.

[Jannah]

I think the bigger question is, why are some so personally offended by the OP's threads, as if they are the ones who are dating her?

 

I can understand if OP started a thread and lashed out at certain members, but this thread posed a question about her and her boyfriend, how to acknowledge and move past an argument the two had.

[TheBigQuestion]

It's one thing to leave baggage at the door. I don't think anybody's baggage is an issue here (obviously you do, but I don't see where you're getting that. . . in fact: Weren't you the one who brought up "baggage" such as OG's childhood or whatnot?). However, asking people to leave all their value judgments at the door is silly. If we cannot discern good from bad behavior, productive behavior from unproductive behavior, and assess problem areas, then there's no point in giving or asking for advice at ALL.

 

I think TheBigQuestion hit a lot of it on the head, frankly.

 

Agreed. You can't promote a purely relativistic attitude towards these kinds of things. That's a first class ticket to getting nowhere at all. If someone finds it "mean," tough.

[zengirl]

I think the bigger question is, why are some so personally offended by the OP's threads, as if they are the ones who are dating her?

 

I can understand if OP started a thread and lashed out at certain members, but this thread posed a question about her and her boyfriend, how to acknowledge and move past an argument the two had.

 

I think the bigger question is. . .

 

Why is it assumed any criticism comes from personal offense?

[TheBigQuestion]

I think the bigger question is, why are some so personally offended by the OP's threads, as if they are the ones who are dating her?

 

I can understand if OP started a thread and lashed out at certain members, but this thread posed a question about her and her boyfriend, how to acknowledge and move past an argument the two had.

 

It isn't so much personal offense most of the time (although that comment about using other humans as practice dummies for relationships neatly fits the definition of being offensive). I just think that it's ridiculous that some posters feel that they are immune to criticism and/or rarely follow anyone's advice, and that there are several others who coddle these posters for the sake of appearing "sensitive" rather than giving them much needed straight talk.

 

My version of said straight talk would be as follows: Stop posting here and get a damn therapist. A good one. No one here can help you, both because we aren't qualified to do so and because you don't listen anyway. Spend time and money trying to find the right one. Hopefully he or she can help you get through your issues so you don't drag friends and future romantic partners into the mud with you.

[sb129]

If only perfect people were allowed to post, then the board would be empty!

 

While I do understand some of what TBF is trying to say, most of us on here post opinions and advice based on our own values and experiences, its what shapes who we are and what we think/ feel, so in that respect I also identify with the BQs post.

 

It CAN be very challenging to be objective, particularly when you possibly have been very close to where a poster is emotionally- its very hard to not give them a virtual slap sometimes.

 

Most of the time, people on here post because they are actively seeking opinions and perspectives other than their own.

 

I don't think that is the case here, however as long as OG continues to post, she will get varying responses to her threads.

[Chocolat]

I think the bigger question is. . .

 

Why is it assumed any criticism comes from personal offense?

 

As someone who rarely posts in OG's thread but reads often, it strikes me that there are two camps: Posters who genuinely seek to help OG by offering her advice and constructive criticism. I think you, Kamille and TBF all fall into this category, albeit with differing viewpoints.

 

But then there is another group that seems almost vitriolic in its reaction to OG and her posts. These posters seem less concerned with providing helpful advice than with bullying OG and anyone who dares to disagree with them. They post under the claim of "tough love" -- they know OG and have sen her struggle with the same issues repeatedly and therefore have earned the right to speak harshly and without the consideration usually applied on these forums.

 

Just the observations of a mostly-lurker.

[sb129]

I think the bigger question is, why are some so personally offended by the OP's threads, as if they are the ones who are dating her?

 

Well I can only speak for myself here, but this is my answer:

 

I like OG and I feel for her because I understand much of the angst she goes through.

I also think that she isn't that far away from the happiness/ happy relationship she desperately craves, however she isn't going to get there with her current plan of attack because she is still so unhappy with herself.

 

Its not my job to singlehandedly change her mind/opinions of herself, but I keep coming back to her threads because I hope that one day she will see what many of us see, and she will turn around, start loving herself, and be happier.

 

When that happens, I will be one of the first people cheering, because I know how sh** it is to be so unhappy and unsure and insecure about life, and I also know how great it feels to get rid of your baggage and be happy.

I want her to know how that feels too.

[sb129]

PS- OG, sorry for talking about you in the third person.

[Jannah]

It isn't so much personal offense most of the time (although that comment about using other humans as practice dummies for relationships neatly fits the definition of being offensive). I just think that it's ridiculous that some posters feel that they are immune to criticism and/or rarely follow anyone's advice, and that there are several others who coddle these posters for the sake of appearing "sensitive" rather than giving them much needed straight talk.

 

My version of said straight talk would be as follows: Stop posting here and get a damn therapist. A good one. No one here can help you, both because we aren't qualified to do so and because you don't listen anyway. Spend time and money trying to find the right one. Hopefully he or she can help you get through your issues so you don't drag friends and future romantic partners into the mud with you.

 

It isn't about "coddling". Her thread title, did not ask whether or not the general public, believes she needs to go see a therapist.

 

It asked for advise concerning an arguement she had with her boyfriend.

[Star Gazer]

Well I can only speak for myself here, but this is my answer:

 

I like OG and I feel for her because I understand much of the angst she goes through.

I also think that she isn't that far away from the happiness/ happy relationship she desperately craves, however she isn't going to get there with her current plan of attack because she is still so unhappy with herself.

 

Its not my job to singlehandedly change her mind/opinions of herself, but I keep coming back to her threads because I hope that one day she will see what many of us see, and she will turn around, start loving herself, and be happier.

 

When that happens, I will be one of the first people cheering, because I know how sh** it is to be so unhappy and unsure and insecure about life, and I also know how great it feels to get rid of your baggage and be happy.

I want her to know how that feels too.

 

Seconded.

 

In many ways, I think a lot of us feel like coaches whose team is *this close* to winning the Super Bowl, and are so excited for our players (having been there ourselves), but are repeatedly disappointed and frustrated from the sidelines when our quarterback doesn't even show up for the game. We want them to get the same Championship ring we already have. But to get there, they gotta do the hard work themselves, and all we can do is tell/show them what we did to get our rings, in the hopes that they'll piece together the different plays that will work for them to win it for themselves. But they gotta show up and do the work. We can't throw/run/catch the ball ourselves.

 

I'm a fan of really bad analogies - so there's mine for the day.

[sb129]

It asked for advise concerning an arguement she had with her boyfriend.

 

Thats true, but there is so much history on here that many of us are aware of, its difficult to treat each thread as an isolated incident.

[Star Gazer]

It isn't about "coddling". Her thread title, did not ask whether or not the general public, believes she needs to go see a therapist.

 

It asked for advise concerning an arguement she had with her boyfriend.

 

And the answer to that question from many is that the help of a good therapist would help her in her relationship, including how to handle and prevent arguments and issues of the sort she's experiencing.

[TheBigQuestion]

And the answer to that question from many is that the help of a good therapist would help her in her relationship, including how to handle and prevent arguments and issues of the sort she's experiencing.

 

I've responded with this advice in OGs threads a few times before. All I've ever gotten is the "Ugh but its soooo hard to find the right one" excuse.

Just excuses, nothing else.

[donnamaybe]

I, too, would LOVE to see OG happy, and not just for the few seconds it takes to read my latest post. I could not say what really needs to be said and blow some sunshine where it doesn't normally shine, but what good would that do?

 

Yes, there's some tough love going on, but if it's not against the TOS, it's no one's right to tell others how to post.

[Star Gazer]

I've responded with this advice in OGs threads a few times before. All I've ever gotten is the "Ugh but its soooo hard to find the right one" excuse.

Just excuses, nothing else.

 

That's unfortunate. I really believe EVERYONE can benefit from therapy.

[Jannah]

And the answer to that question from many is that the help of a good therapist would help her in her relationship, including how to handle and prevent arguments and issues of the sort she's experiencing.

 

Yes Star Gazer, but that is not for a single one us to decide, in THIS particular thread.

 

Each of us can observe people and listen to what they post, and draw a conclusion based on their behavior.

 

OP just happens to be very candid in her threads, which leaves herself wide open for scrutiny.

[Star Gazer]

Yes Star Gazer, but that is not for a single one us to decide, in THIS particular thread.

 

Each of us can observe people and listen to what they post, and draw a conclusion based on their behavior.

 

I really don't understand your "keep your opinions to yourself" stance? You seem to be advocating for the diary approach again...? That OG and anyone else post their problem(s), and no one else should comment on it or offer advice, such as advising that seeing a therapist would be helpful? What's the point of a forum, if not to share ideas about how to resolve a problem?

 

There's nothing inherently inflammatory about suggesting someone see a professional therapist to grapple with the issues of the sort she's experienced in her childhood and is experiencing now in adulthood. As I said, everyone can benefit from therapy - every single one of us.

[zengirl]

As someone who rarely posts in OG's thread but reads often, it strikes me that there are two camps: Posters who genuinely seek to help OG by offering her advice and constructive criticism. I think you, Kamille and TBF all fall into this category, albeit with differing viewpoints.

 

But then there is another group that seems almost vitriolic in its reaction to OG and her posts. These posters seem less concerned with providing helpful advice than with bullying OG and anyone who dares to disagree with them. They post under the claim of "tough love" -- they know OG and have sen her struggle with the same issues repeatedly and therefore have earned the right to speak harshly and without the consideration usually applied on these forums.

 

Just the observations of a mostly-lurker.

 

Interesting. I do think some people get snappish, but I don't think "Don't criticize" is the right tact to take. The criticism is often still valid; just poorly worded. I would urge the OP to get past the wording and to the meat of the criticism. Because the only way you feel better about yourself is with real change IMO; not with coddling.

 

Yes Star Gazer, but that is not for a single one us to decide, in THIS particular thread.

 

Each of us can observe people and listen to what they post, and draw a conclusion based on their behavior.

 

OP just happens to be very candid in her threads, which leaves herself wide open for scrutiny.

 

I guess I find it a bit arrogant for someone to say what is or isn't within the scope of a particular thread. At any rate, this is getting too boards-on-boards for me, so it's my last word on the matter.

[threebyfate]

It's one thing to leave baggage at the door. I don't think anybody's baggage is an issue here (obviously you do, but I don't see where you're getting that. . . in fact: Weren't you the one who brought up "baggage" such as OG's childhood or whatnot?). However, asking people to leave all their value judgments at the door is silly. If we cannot discern good from bad behavior, productive behavior from unproductive behavior, and assess problem areas, then there's no point in giving or asking for advice at ALL.

 

I think TheBigQuestion hit a lot of it on the head, frankly.

The focus should be on helping OG, not everyone else's baggage, insecurities or personal value systems. But it's true, there aren't too many licensed professionals on LS who can address the issues and not spit their venom on the individual.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zengirl

I think the bigger question is. . .

 

Why is it assumed any criticism comes from personal offense?

 

 

No, I agree: it's not personal offense. It's ego and deep-rooted insecurity.

 

It is unfortunate that one can so handily refute any criticism by attributing it to

"ego and deep-rooted insecurity."