How to deal with an argument in brand new relationship?

February 1, 2011

Everything seems to be fine...

He texted me this:

Guess what happened? I got a $500 voucher at work for working through the strike (but then again I really had no choice lol). I am thinking of spending it on us! We could go to a really nice dinner on Sat night and to the gold class cinemas on Sunday...followed by a lunch at place X!! What do you think?

That's great. Make sure you thank him for his generosity. And relax. And enjoy yourself.

February 1, 2011

Everything seems to be fine...

He texted me this:

Guess what happened? I got a $500 voucher at work for working through the strike (but then again I really had no choice lol). I am thinking of spending it on us! We could go to a really nice dinner on Sat night and to the gold class cinemas on Sunday...followed by a lunch at place X!! What do you think?

Great. Let it go and please stop worrying about every little bump and bruise, OG. Instead, focus on being the best you that you can---secure, confident, considerate, attentive, and warm. Don't think about problems or you'll get them in spades. (Address them when they arise, of course.)

February 1, 2011

This thread has devolved from providing guidance and feedback directed to the OP and has become a dialogue ABOUT her. It's almost like the kind of chatter people would say behind someone's back, but instead it's available for the OP to read.

I have seen practically every thread by this poster go this way lately. And it saddens me. I think it's inappropriate. If someone has something to say TO the OP, say it. If someone wants to talk about the OP in the third person, hold your tongue because I believe it is immature behavior and counter productive to building a safe and trusting community.

This is my opinion. Feel free to discredit and discard it, but then I don't plan on revisiting these threads. I don't want to enable and encourage this behavior on the LS forums.

If the OP truly is looking for geniune and real outside perspectives, she should be happy to get the third-person point of view. People rarely say what they mean or feel to each other's faces, it's only behind their back where the truth tends to come out anymore. If you want to categorize this thread into that perspective then the OP should be grateful she gets this kind of truthful and honest insight in it's purest form instead of sugar coated.

February 1, 2011

Sounds like you have a good weekend ahead, Ocean Girl.

I have no advice to give, except- breathe. And enjoy.

I've got my own dating situation brewing, but too soon to post about it. So I will also take my own advice to breath and enjoy.

February 1, 2011

This post encourages OG to maintain her status quo. I think that's a very bad idea.

I don't think she's walking on egg shells with this guy. Far from it. With the first incident, she hit him very low about his sexual performance. You don't have to walk on eggshells to not behave as she did there.

Also, in both instances, she owned up to being inconsiderate. He may be more sensitive at times, but the actual instances of OG being inconsiderate are very real and legitimate.

You and OG are different people. You and I are different people. Time to reconsider some of your cookie cutter advice and try to tailor it for the benefit of other people instead of what you would do or have done or what's societally approved.

February 1, 2011

You and OG are different people. You and I are different people. Time to reconsider some of your cookie cutter advice and try to tailor it for the benefit of other people instead of what you would do or have done or what's societally approved.

If you read my posts in this thread, tailoring advice to the person AND the situation is exactly what I advocate.

That said, you haven't addressed whether she's walking on eggshells. Regardless of whether she's herself, you, me, or anyone else, her behavior has lacked tact and has been objectively inconsiderate - she's owned up to it herself. Basically telling a guy he's bad in bed cannot be twisted in any fashion (no matter who's involved) to be walking on eggshells. C'mon.

February 1, 2011

If you read my posts in this thread, tailoring advice to the person AND the situation is exactly what I advocate.

That said, you haven't addressed whether she's walking on eggshells. Regardless of whether she's herself, you, me, or anyone else, her behavior has lacked tact and has been objectively inconsiderate - she's owned up to it herself. Basically telling a guy he's bad in bed cannot be twisted in any fashion (no matter who's involved) to be walking on eggshells. C'mon.

As previously expressed, I haven't read that thread and don't plan to. Where I stand is that OG has had a lot of harsh criticism all her life from her mother and she doesn't need more of that kind of crap.

It's way too easy as an observer to sit back and criticize. But as an observer, has your life and relationships been perfect? I think...not.

February 1, 2011

As previously expressed, I haven't read that thread and don't plan to. Where I stand is that OG has had a lot of harsh criticism all her life from her mother and she doesn't need more of that kind of crap.

Perhaps you SHOULD read it so that you can give the sort of advice that's actually tailored to fit the person and not the way you would handle what's presented in this vacuum.

It is hardly criticism to simply state that OG hasn't been walking on eggshells. To tell her that's what she's been doing (and thereby suggesting she owns no responsibility for any conflict) is incredibly off base. I rarely see you point out flaws of OG or NS - ever. Instead, you vilify the man, as here, where apparently he's made into a cry baby for getting upset at OG's self-admitted tactless mistakes. I don't get that. *shrug*

I also think it doesn't do her ANY bit of good to say that because she received criticism from her mother, she shouldn't receive it from anyone else - even when her behavior is mean. How can she learn and grow if she follows your suggestion and points the finger at everyone but herself?

It's way too easy as an observer to sit back and criticize. But as an observer, has your life and relationships been perfect? I think...not.

Would you like to be the pot, or the kettle? As an outside observer, has YOUR life and relationships been perfect? I think...NOT.

I'm not criticizing this relationship. I'm questioning your characterization of OG's behavior in it as walking on eggshells.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Star Gazer

February 1, 2011

It`s exhausting arguing with you Stargazer since you honestly don`t see yourself very clearly. Nitpicking everyone and everything isn`t an attractive trait and OG has had enough nitpicking and harmful criticism her entire life.

Like I said. That`s my stance and I`m not moving from it just to align with what you feel is the way that OG should become. Lead by example not by criticism, Star or any relationship you`ll ever have will continue to fail.

As for myself, not once have I said anything about being perfect in relationships. My life is currently perfect for me but it`s not for others and that`s fine too.

February 1, 2011

More hypocrisy, very predictable - nitpicking me and putting me down.

As I just said to someone in a PM about this, OG has GREAT potential. She just needs to get out of her own way. I know she can.

February 1, 2011

Maybe this will help: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t253855/

February 1, 2011

Some people here were outraged by how OG behaved that first night and have a hard time letting it go.

OG's boyfriend has decided to forgive her. He's forgiven her for the way she handled communication their first time and he's forgiven her for whatever it is that happened this time.

Since he's forgiven her, I don't see the point in any of us holding her actions against her.

OG has walls up and I think this can lead her to be extremely harsh on her boyfriend. I, however, don't think her actions stem from selfishness but rather from insecurity.

As such, I understand where TBF is coming from. What OG needs isn't more criticism. What she needs is to learn to trust herself more.

February 1, 2011

As such, I understand where TBF is coming from. What OG needs isn't more criticism. What she needs is to learn to trust herself more.

I get that, but she does need to remember there is more than one person in this R with his own thoughts, faults, needs, etc.. If OG doesn't come out of her own head it will be to her detriment. And we would ALL like to see her happy! She has always seemed such a very nice gal, and just as cute as she can be!

Arguing doesn't have to be negative. It can be very productive, providing you "fight fair." Keep things positive and constructive.

February 1, 2011

Since he's forgiven her, I don't see the point in any of us holding her actions against her.

I don't hold her actions against her (why would I even care on that level?) but isn't there a difference between doing that and claiming she's responsible for her actions and bad behavior. Until she takes ownership of it -- which by apologizing (to him) she did in part, but now she needs to be sure not to let it repeat in a pattern, which is the other part of owning your own bad behavior -- she won't be successful or change to better herself.

I have no patience with someone who is so hyper-sensitive to criticism that they cannot take it. No doubt that OG's mom seems over the line, but that doesn't mean that OG's own bad behavior is excused by it. She's a grown woman. And I'm not saying OG is a "bad" person becau

Edited February 1, 2011 by zengirl

February 2, 2011

I don't see the point in any of us holding her actions against her.

As such, I understand where TBF is coming from. What OG needs isn't more criticism. What she needs is to learn to trust herself more.

I'm not holding it against her. I'm just laughing at the statement that her past poor behavior with this guy (which she owned up to) constitutes "walking on eggshells."

Surely you, who said she was having some sort of anxiety-produced outburst, haven't now have changed your mind to agree that the way she was inconsiderate (which again, she owned up to, apologized for, and was forgiven for) was her walking on eggshells...right? Because if that's walking on eggshells, I'd hate to see how she is when she's being herself and telling him what she really thinks!

February 2, 2011

she needs to be sure not to let it repeat in a pattern, which is the other part of owning your own bad behavior -- she won't be successful or change to better herself.

I agree. And to me the best way not to repeat a pattern is to understand what provokes the behavior in the first place. What's the point of telling someone: "You're acting in selfish ways" if you don't explore what might be behind the behavior?

And, it needs to be said that in this relationship so far, we only have proof that OG is owning her bad behavior. She apologized for the sex comment, she admitted she was wrong in whatever happened to start their latest fight and she apologized for it.

So where's the proof she isn't owning her behavior and taking responsibility for herself?

February 2, 2011

Surely you, who said she was having some sort of anxiety-produced outburst, haven't now have changed your mind to agree that the way she was inconsiderate (which again, she owned up to, apologized for, and was forgiven for) was her walking on eggshells...right? Because if that's walking on eggshells, I'd hate to see how she is when she's being herself and telling him what she really thinks!

First, note that nowhere have I defended the notion that OG was "walking on eggshell". My point has been and continues to be that we need to step away from making snap judgements on OG's actions, we need to stop demanding she get out of her own way and get over herself (which I find has little applicable value... How exactly is one supposed to put "get out of my own way" into practice?) Instead, we should help her understand herself and what motivates her to act in certain ways. That actually involves having enough respect for OG and believing enough in OG to see the good in her.

So, my first reaction to your post was: I'm not even saying she's walking on eggshells. But then I thought about it, and yes, I think it would be better if OG was being herself 100%. The problem is, I don't think OG is comfortable with herself enough just yet to communicate in positive, assertive ways. And that's what provokes her "anxiety-produced outbursts". Remember, she let the sex go on past her point of comfort because she was hoping she could please him, and then he would like her more. That's twisted logic stemming from insecurity. Had she been in touch with herself, she would have asked for a break way before the moment she felt angry at him.

February 2, 2011

I, however, don't think her actions stem from selfishness but rather from insecurity.

The problem is that the person/people on the receiving end probably won't give a sh-t where the behavior stems from but rather the fact that it occurs repeatedly.

February 2, 2011

So where's the proof she isn't owning her behavior and taking responsibility for herself?

I now see where you're confused. The discussion isn't currently about OG's acceptance - it's clear she's already accepted responsibility.

Please go back and read my exchange with TBF in this thread. She essentially expressed that OG had done no wrong, that her BF is oversensitive and that she's been and will continue to walk on eggshells because of his hypersensitivity. She's wholly ignored OG's poor behavior, or the fact that she owned up to it. THAT is what we are challenging. In saying what she did, it is TBF who is attempting to absolve OG of responsibility for her actions and making the entire issue her BF's fault, all apparently in the name of "not criticizing OG anymore."

February 2, 2011

The problem is that the person/people on the receiving end probably won't give a sh-t where the behavior stems from but rather the fact that it occurs repeatedly.

So far, the person on the receiving has shown a propensity to forgive her and move the relationship forward.

February 2, 2011

Where I stand is that OG has had a lot of harsh criticism all her life from her mother and she doesn't need more of that kind of crap.

But she's fast becoming like her mother and will in-turn, dish out as much crap and unwarranted criticism as she herself became familiar with in her younger years. She had a dysfunctional childhood, and until this extremely important aspect of her life is reconciled (through a health professional and not by the likes of us), she will continue following a destructive relationship pattern started by her mum (and probably by at least one of her parents beforehand and so on and so on). She needs professional help, and the best way we can all help her is by suggesting as much.

But as an observer, has your life and relationships been perfect? I think...not.

Perfection is an unattainable goal, more of a way to distort an argument or justify one's life choices rather than being something of any practical use. What I would like here, for starters, is simply two happy people and a relationship free of drama. This can happen, but only if she seeks professional help. Almost one year on from when I first came across this poster and little has changed for this person (except that she's taken her drama out of the dating world and into a relationship), meaning, its time that everyone (and not just a few) started singing a different tune!

I agree. And to me the best way not to repeat a pattern is to understand what provokes the behavior in the first place.

Everything she does has its roots in her dysfunctional childhood. She's a textbook case. Address this, and she has a good chance for a happy relationship life. Let it slide, and no one I've seen here to date will be able to help her.

.

February 2, 2011

So far, the person on the receiving has shown a propensity to forgive her and move the relationship forward.

Yes, and that was kind of him.

My point is that unless she's honest with herself and heals, there's a good chance the behavior will pop up again and again. Most healthy people will eventually run out of patience.

February 2, 2011

I agree. And to me the best way not to repeat a pattern is to understand what provokes the behavior in the first place. What's the point of telling someone: "You're acting in selfish ways" if you don't explore what might be behind the behavior?

I'm all for seeing what's behind behavior, but that never excuses it. Everyone chooses how to behave, and everyone can make a choice to behave differently whenever they choose. Even if someone behaves from pain, that does not absolve them of the behavior.

And, it needs to be said that in this relationship so far, we only have proof that OG is owning her bad behavior. She apologized for the sex comment, she admitted she was wrong in whatever happened to start their latest fight and she apologized for it.

So where's the proof she isn't owning her behavior and taking responsibility for herself?

The argument was on whether a poster should be critical or coddle the OP. Personally, I think OG is taking some steps to make this right. I've yet to see her reflect on why she's been continuously insensitive, so I'm not sure she's taken that step. Perhaps she has. I hope she has, personally, because without that, and fixing the behavior patterns overall, apologies won't do her good for long. That's not a criticism of her; just the truth.

The problem is that the person/people on the receiving end probably won't give a sh-t where the behavior stems from but rather the fact that it occurs repeatedly.

Kamille is right that so far the guy is willing to move along and accept her apologies (which is good), though I do agree that he's not going to be likely to do so or care about "why" if bad behavior consistently repeats. Everyone errs sometimes, but OG should be careful not to repeat the behaviors.

February 2, 2011

Everything she does has its roots in her dysfunctional childhood. She's a textbook case. Address this, and she has a good chance for a happy relationship life. Let it slide, and no one I've seen here to date will be able to help her.

.

I also had a dysfunctional childhood and agree that a good therapist is the best resource in cases like OG's.

I found the pages disptch3d quite thought provoking on the topic of dealing with childhood anxieties. I read the ones on validation and invalidation. As someone who was quite frequently invalidated as a child (not on my looks, thank heaven!), I know how invalidation can lead one to act in unproductive unassertive ways (also known as passive-agression).

http://eqi.org/emotions.htm

Check out validation. It seems like it'll help you.

There really shouldn't be any arguments.

February 2, 2011

Personally, I think OG is taking some steps to make this right. I've yet to see her reflect on why she's been continuously insensitive, so I'm not sure she's taken that step.

Self-reflection can be scary to some precisely because as a result of a dysfunctional childhood, they grew up to believe there was something fundamentally wrong with them. In their mind, self-reflection might reveal their worst fears to be true. Again, this is where a good therapist can do wonders.

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