jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 i don't really like imagining religion as punitive; to me it seems to detract from the more positive, activist, loving messages imbedded in most religions. but since it's come up, let's talk hell. how does your religion or spirituality, or lack thereof, imagine a punitive place after life? i still believe in the fairly straightforward atheist belief: you body disintegrates, and feeds other life forms. period. but, were there a hell, i expect it would be much like a heaven - you simply die into your own imagination. if you think you are going to hell, you are, and you can face all the things you feel badly about. ditto a heaven, for me. i don't have a lot of patience for baroque descriptiveness, but i'm willing to learn.
moimeme Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Two theories of interest: 1 - Hell consists in suffering the pain that one has caused others throughout one's lifetime 2 - Hell means to be separated from God. Think of how painful it is to lose one's beloved. The theory is that one will long for the presence of God similarly (obviously with even more intensity and therefore being deprived of the presence of God will cause terrible suffering
faux Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 According to my belief system*: Hell is a subconscious state of reality, formed from emotional responses to our moral upbringing and personal beliefs. It is an ever-evolving, internal microcosm which serves as a guiding instinct in our lives. It is nothing, and everything in a brief moment of deception, for which there can be no apology. Hell is perhaps unethical, albeit profoundly honest and dissolute in demeanor. Likened to Texas, it contains such things as mystery, intrigue, and sinful goodness. More importantly, Hell is not in any way similar to a paint brush, or a humming bird, or even a goose. Hell is up and coming, a truly happening place. You either get me, or you don't. * Discordianism
sweetbilly Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 I assure you, hell is a factual, physical place. And if you have to ask if it exists it would be beneficial for the person asking to be scared. This is not saying you're an evil person just that you haven't taken the time to discover what the truth really is, and this is detrimental to your future. There's a lot of bull out there about evolution and other crap, and it's all disprovable. Do you agree, if there's evidence for the existence of God, then the Devil must be real too. Trust me there is evidence. I have diligently researched this very topic for years, because I wanted to show people what I've known for a long time. Lets put it this way, the info I have proving the existance of God would scare people to death! The good thing is, we live in the last generation and there is a promise to reveal the truth. And I have a feeling that everyone else will know what I know relativly soon. But don't bide your time waiting for physical proof search it out before it's too late. By the way, I was once an atheist, but my personal experiences convicted me. And this is something I can never deny happened no matter how much I don't like it. I know it was real.
tattoomytoe Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by sweetbilly I assure you, hell is a factual, physical place. And if you have to ask if it exists it would be beneficial for the person asking to be scared. This is not saying you're an evil person just that you haven't taken the time to discover what the truth really is, and this is detrimental to your future. There's a lot of bull out there about evolution and other crap, and it's all disprovable. Do you agree, if there's evidence for the existence of God, then the Devil must be real too. Trust me there is evidence. I have diligently researched this very topic for years, because I wanted to show people what I've known for a long time. Lets put it this way, the info I have proving the existance of God would scare people to death! The good thing is, we live in the last generation and there is a promise to reveal the truth. And I have a feeling that everyone else will know what I know relativly soon. But don't bide your time waiting for physical proof search it out before it's too late. By the way, I was once an atheist, but my personal experiences convicted me. And this is something I can never deny happened no matter how much I don't like it. I know it was real. hey, billy, pm on your insights!
guest Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by sweetbilly I assure you, hell is a factual, physical place. And if you have to ask if it exists it would be beneficial for the person asking to be scared. This is not saying you're an evil person just that you haven't taken the time to discover what the truth really is, and this is detrimental to your future. There's a lot of bull out there about evolution and other crap, and it's all disprovable. Do you agree, if there's evidence for the existence of God, then the Devil must be real too. Trust me there is evidence. I have diligently researched this very topic for years, because I wanted to show people what I've known for a long time. Lets put it this way, the info I have proving the existance of God would scare people to death! The good thing is, we live in the last generation and there is a promise to reveal the truth. And I have a feeling that everyone else will know what I know relativly soon. But don't bide your time waiting for physical proof search it out before it's too late. By the way, I was once an atheist, but my personal experiences convicted me. And this is something I can never deny happened no matter how much I don't like it. I know it was real. lets see your proof. lets see you disprove evolution. cite your sources so we can research them ourselves. there is no heaven or hell. life ends. whatever electrical impulses emanate from the physical body will dwindle and cease also. there is no evidence of any god. there is also no evidence of no god. hell, like heaven, is whatever you make of your life.
sweetbilly Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 First, I can't make you see what you won't. Second, the only cure for athiesm is an open mind, but trust me there is proof. try this http://www.pinkosi.com if that dosen't work try" Redsea+exodus+found+chariots". If you don't like that try "creation in the 21st century" this is a museaum in Glenn Rose texas. http://www.biblefacts.either org or com can't remember. There are many probs with athiests claims like population# that don't match. But to teach you the really convencing and scientific ones you'll have to learn a college geology course. Then I can teach you things about plution halos, helioseismology, probs with the stratigraphic column and its' relation to marine fossils, radiomatric dating, and alot of other things. Believe me if you don't believe the evidence it's because you're a fool. As for my personal experiences, I'm going to keep them personal. I don't like talking about them, they're very painful emotionally. If you have anymore questions don't be afraid to ask I'll answer all I can.
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Posted March 23, 2004 if you believe it is a real metaphorical place, more power to you. but, dude, don't use science to prove religion. that's just pointless, and makes me think you have no grasp on the concept of the word 'fact'.
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Posted March 23, 2004 and, by the way, i started this thread so i could learn what you believe hell to be like, not to be preached at. if you need to preach, take it to your own thread. this one is only for the calm, rational, exchange of *concepts* of the afterlife.
InmannRoshi Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Hell is spending eternity with born again Christians.
zarathustra Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Hell is spending eternity with born again Christians. Amen, Brother.
sweetbilly Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 It's not science that proves religion. It's God that created science so we could know and prove his existence (this is what he wants). I would believe facts are the truth, and I want to know the truth. Not some politically derived falsehood, wouldn't you. Especially if it concerns my existence. And if there was someone out there with evidence that disproves common beliefs, I would want them to tell me about it.
sweetbilly Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 besides, I can't help it if my IQ isn't as low as yours is. At least I can discuss an issue with intelligence instead of calling them names. This only proves my point.
tattoomytoe Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by jenny and, by the way, i started this thread so i could learn what you believe hell to be like, not to be preached at. if you need to preach, take it to your own thread. this one is only for the calm, rational, exchange of *concepts* of the afterlife. in billys defense... he was "preaching" to the guest...who isn't even registered, so i would waste my breath with them yet billy. lets see your proof. lets see you disprove evolution. cite your sources so we can research them ourselves. there is no heaven or hell. life ends. whatever electrical impulses emanate from the physical body will dwindle and cease also. there is no evidence of any god. there is also no evidence of no god. hell, like heaven, is whatever you make of your life.posted by guest
sweetbilly Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 thanks, toe. I'm glad to hear there is someone out there with sensitivity and intelligence.
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Posted March 23, 2004 At least I can discuss an issue with intelligence instead of calling them names. er...yes. i hate it when people call issues or intelligence names? what an odd sentence. take a deep breath, sweetbilly. calm down. who called any names? i think we both agree that trying to use science, as we know it, to demonstrate your concept of hell is going to be fruitless. i simply asked you if you could describe your hell without needing to tell us that we will be attending your imaginary concept of an afterlife. if you need some help on how to do this, try rewriting your initial description without mentioning myself, or any other poster, in your idea of hell. just try to imagine it, and describe it, without being insulting. if you could aslo remove yourself from the description, and your delusions of grandeur, that would also make the description more succinct, and frankly, much more credible. if you have secret, speacil, proof, and secret, speacil, powers, well, that's super for you! best of luck with that. but your insider info is not pertinent to the question at hand. if you do need to preach, just start your own thread explaining who will be going to hell and how they can prevent such a thing. be prepared to prove your secrets there.
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Posted March 23, 2004 o! good point toe - but his or her initial post also contained lines such as : This is not saying you're an evil person just that you haven't taken the time to discover what the truth really is, and this is detrimental to your future. if he or she has done as much research as he or she claimed, then providing a simple explanation, without preaching, at all, should not be difficult. i'm even happy to hear quotations from his or her version of the bible.
moimeme Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Hell is spending eternity with born again Christians. OK, IR. You owe me for some monitor wipes! So, sweetbilly, got a batch of koolaid for us to drink? Or maybe we should go buy Adidas? Please elabourate - as Jenny asks - on another thread. It's rare to encounter a genuine prophet.
sweetbilly Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Ok, first of all, how is the info presented not pertinent when asked your thoughts on a personal description of hell. And second, I was asked a Question by someone else, if you don't want a response don't ask. And if I as preaching you would know. And third, I do take offense when people criticze my experiences and intelligence. And I know you don't get it, but my point was, and I'll say it again, hell is a real place complete with fire, pain, and lots of burning. It dosen't have to be imagined for a complete description, just read. And besides eternity in hell is actually like spending the day with an athiest. p.s specail, is actually spelt special. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.
moimeme Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 I think, Jenny, that's a 'no' to the new thread thing.
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Posted March 23, 2004 lol - i give up. if nothing else, he'll keep the thread near the top until someone more willing to communicate effectively comes along. sweetbilly, for the record, i have no problems at all with christians or their version of the afterlife. you might want to study how a number of the christians on this forum present themselves, and their beliefs, rationally and rigourously. dyermaker, quankanne, and moi are the ones who spring to mind immediately, but i am sure there are others.
HokeyReligions Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by sweetbilly besides, I can't help it if my IQ isn't as low as yours is. At least I can discuss an issue with intelligence instead of calling them names. This only proves my point. LOLOL! Didn't you just call someone else a fool because they don't think like you? I'm with guest - there is no heaven or hell. Don't call me an athiest though -- I'm agnostic. Oh, and I have read about geological testing, archeology and other forms of scientific exploration. Nothing has proven or disproven the existence of any diety. You have faith - good for you. But don't be so narrow minded to think that you are better or smarter than anyone else. Try taking this whole thread to the minister of your church and two other churches of the same or similar faith and ask them to discuss it with you and help you to understand your faith and how it compares to facts. Jenny - I don't believe that hell, or heaven, exist as a destination. I think they are words used to describe reward/punishment aspects of a faith and are used to manipulate (scare?) people who believe in God into acting a certain way. One theory is basically - if there is a strong enough belief then some kind of energy signal - perhaps sentient - that survives after the death of the body may believe itself to be in heaven or hell or whatever - based on the strength of the faith it had it life. If that is the case then heaven or hell is unique to the individual or to the family unit of the same faith. I don't think that there is a sentient form of life that exists outside of the body - but I'm open minded enough to know that I don't know all the facts, no one does, and any one of us could be right! Even sweetbilly - scary as that prospect is!
End of my rope Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 I'm at work right now, but I'm itching to reply to this thread. Once I get home and have my Bible handy I'll give you my version of hell! ( I know better than to post on LS with out being able to quote my sources!)
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Posted March 23, 2004 hey hokey - thank you. i am looking up signal theory right now, as well as discordianism.
Tony T Posted March 23, 2004 Posted March 23, 2004 When I was young, I took discordian lessons...and I was pretty good!!!
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