muse08 Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 I totally agree with this idea of having a minimal wedding. I know so many people who've had big weddings (more than once) and they are no longer together. That's a lesson to people to not be materialistic about weddings.
depplover_1980 Posted February 1, 2011 Posted February 1, 2011 You're a good one Zengirl. My wedding was going to be in Greece with just both sets of parents and even that was pushing it because I just didn't want a fuss and wanted to save money. We'll discuss the anal another day on another thread.
Questionis Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 They keep certain nice things "in reserve" because they think one day you will do something "weird" "for no reason" and a big grand gesture always brings you back. They do this instead of treating you well and getting to know you because they think this is impossible... I am very saddened by this
Author luvflower Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 Simple sounds great when the focus shouldn't even be on those attending the wedding, but more so on the people getting married and making the marriage last. Though, I think if both parties getting married agree that they want and CAN AFFORD an extravagant wedding then by all means, I say go for it. But I'm not about to put my family and friends through the hassle of buying plane tickets, fancy clothes, gifts, etc. to see me get married on some island or in front of a bunch of people. It won't make my marriage last any longer. This is what guys need to know when thinking of marriage. Not all women are materialistic when it comes to weddings and marriage. This is in no way to say that I don't like NICE things,trips, etc. I just know that everything should be done in moderation. I think this thread has demonstrated that not all women want marriage for the same reasons. Seems as though not many if any of the female posters wanted marriage to have a man take care of them while their sitting around the house, or going shopping, out to lunch w/ the girls...That's nice in moderation, but not my focus ( I can honestly say that).
Author luvflower Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 They keep certain nice things "in reserve" because they think one day you will do something "weird" "for no reason" and a big grand gesture always brings you back. They do this instead of treating you well and getting to know you because they think this is impossible... I am very saddened by this Wow,where did you get these quotes? Did I miss this from a previous post or did it come from you?
Woggle Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 They keep certain nice things "in reserve" because they think one day you will do something "weird" "for no reason" and a big grand gesture always brings you back. They do this instead of treating you well and getting to know you because they think this is impossible... I am very saddened by this I hate to say this but it is true in many cases. Simply treating a woman well is often a recipe for distaster. If simply treating a woman well and loving worked well most men would be doing it.
Eeyore79 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 But back on the topic from what I have read you would toss away a man you genuinely loved up to that point because he wouldn't marry you. I just find that to be ruthless. Indeed I would. No matter how much I loved him, he wouldn't be right for me if he couldn't give me the things I want in life, i.e. marriage and children. I would eventually come to resent him for depriving me of those things which mean so much to me. It's better to just acknowledge that we're not compatible in the long-term and move on. I am presuming however you bring up the topic very early on with these guys nowadays? Do you not run risk of scaring them off? Also if you do bring it up early how come you have ended up tossing them aside when you suddenly found out they didn't want to marry - had they lied to you early on? When I was younger, I just assumed that if a guy fell in love with me and wanted to stay with me then he'd marry me. I learned from bitter experience that some guys will happily string you along for years on end without any intention of marrying you; I had a couple of relationships which lasted a couple of years before I realized the guy was non-committal. I have now changed my strategy in order to avoid this situation I like to feel out a guy's views on marriage fairly early on (at least within the first six months) by talking to him about stuff like his/my parents' relationship, friends' relationships, what he wants in his future, where he wants to be in 5/10 years time, etc. In order not to scare guys off, I discuss the issue in a very abstract sense, talking about his general feelings about marriage rather than anything specific about us as a couple. The aim is to suss out whether he believes in marriage and wants to get married some day. If he doesn't see himself getting married I won't take the relationship any further. The odds are pretty good that if he believes strongly in marriage he will propose if our relationship works out. Please don't take this personally but women with that mentality towards married strike me as people who will want to be single again once they get the whole wedding thing out of their system. They had their princess wedding dress day and don't feel the need for it anymore. I believe that the wedding is just the start. Like Zengirl, I wouldn't be too bothered about the big princessy wedding. I wouldn't want to spend that much money on a single day, because I'm a bit of a miser My boyfriend is the one who wants to have parties, sit-down meals, a hundred guests, and all the expensive crap - he says you (hopefully) only do it once so you should do it properly. Personally I'd rather use the cash to pay off my mortgage I want to get married for the commitment, not for the wedding day. I agree that the wedding is just the start, so I don't understand why men are so reluctant to get married and start building a permanent relationship; they seem to want to continue in this dating limbo forever
Woggle Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Read some divorce horror stories on this board and other places and you will see why so many are reluctant to get married.
heartshaped Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Read some divorce horror stories on this board and other places and you will see why so many are reluctant to get married. I think it's really a matter of trusting and knowing your partner. It's like saying, well, everyone else is jumping off this bridge so my partner and I will jump off of it too. Not everyone is the same. I think some people make the mistake of thinking well because this person's or that person's marriage failed mine will too.
Author luvflower Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 I hate to say this but it is true in many cases. Simply treating a woman well is often a recipe for distaster. If simply treating a woman well and loving worked well most men would be doing it. So how does this support my reaction(and so many others') to my S2BX? Had he treated me better, I wouldn't be walking out the door...neither would many other females or males in the reverse situation. The reasons so many men are NOT doing it(i.e. stepping up to the plate b4 it's too late) are amongst these: They've never had anyone school them on how a woman really wants to be treatedThey are too afraid of being shot down to the point that they won't tryThey think mind games and/or trying to control a woman will yield positive resultsThey are just ignorant when it comes to relationships in general , et al you can catch more flies with honey That being said, I'd replace "women" with "men" in woggle's statement. Because men say they want a sweet female who doesn't argue and knows how to follow and/or submit in some cases. But guess what, no female is going to follow/submit to a guy who does not show himself approved...If you're playing mind games b/c I female isn't acting the way you want her to act , then why would she look to you for strength and comfort or give you positive feedback when you decide to propose (trying to stay on topic here...) Seriously though, Woggle I'm thinking you're just a nay sayer and perhaps you're getting paid to post the comments you post, which often create intense responses in these threads.
Eeyore79 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 So how does this support my reaction(and so many others') to my S2BX? The guy didn't love you enough to treat you right while you were together, so how come when you leave he suddenly loves you enough to propose? It's a tactic for reeling you back in, nothing more, and I doubt whether it would result in an actual wedding anyway. Even if it did, would you really want to marry a guy when your relationship with him was bad enough for you to leave him? His proposal doesn't fix the issues in your relationship, so if you accept you're just setting yourself up for a divorce... There is a difference between a man who loves a woman but just doesn't want to marry her, and a man who doesn't even love his woman, to the point where she walks away. Thinking of reasons why the latter type of man didn't propose earlier is pointless - he didn't propose earlier because he didn't love the woman, end of story.
Author luvflower Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 The guy didn't love you enough to treat you right while you were together, so how come when you leave he suddenly loves you enough to propose? It's a tactic for reeling you back in, nothing more, and I doubt whether it would result in an actual wedding anyway. Even if it did, would you really want to marry a guy when your relationship with him was bad enough for you to leave him? His proposal doesn't fix the issues in your relationship, so if you accept you're just setting yourself up for a divorce... There is a difference between a man who loves a woman but just doesn't want to marry her, and a man who doesn't even love his woman, to the point where she walks away. Thinking of reasons why the latter type of man didn't propose earlier is pointless - he didn't propose earlier because he didn't love the woman, end of story. I kind of see your point toward the end, but by my guy/x not treating me the way I wanted to be treated, did not yield positive results...which IMO speaks against the point that woggle is making. Woggle will admit not having too much faith in women...correct me if I'm wrong woggle. That's what I'm saying. Maybe I'm missing the meat of that statement about men feeling that they shouldn't treat women well... Not intended as disagreement, just trying to get clarity. Either way, the proposal came at the wrong time by the wrong guy.
Woggle Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I will admit that with a few exceptions I have serious trust issues with women. I am just being honest so don't be offended. I don't know how a man makes a relationship last these days but simply treating a woman well and loving her is certainly not these days in most cases. When men try to manipulate women it is because they want to make sure she stays interested in him instead of getting bored. If treating a woman well actually worked more men would be doing it.
zengirl Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 If you treat a good woman who loves herself wrong, she will leave you. Her own dignity will be stronger than her love for a jerk who mistreats her, and she'll recognize the bad treatment. Woggle's experience and observations apply (in this instance---the bad treatment thing) mostly to bad women. I imagine if he started treating his current wife badly, on a consistent basis, he wouldn't keep her around, if she's as lovely as he always says. In fact, he's called her a "gem" before, so I assume he treats her as one. Woggle? How do you treat the current wife? Badly?
Woggle Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I treat my wife great but I really think that she must have switched brains with a man or something. There could be no other explanation. In most other instances I notice that men who dote on their women get walked on and thrown out like garbage.
zengirl Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I treat my wife great but I really think that she must have switched brains with a man or something. There could be no other explanation. In most other instances I notice that men who dote on their women get walked on and thrown out like garbage. They picked garbage women, that's all. Pick a good woman, treat her well, be a good man, only accept good treatment (or reverse the genders if you're a gal) . . . that's the only way to a happy relationship. YMMV. I don't think your wife switched brains with a man. I just think she's a good woman.
Woggle Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Maybe but that is all I see. You say they should pick better women but they have a very hard time finding one.
Stung Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I treat my wife great but I really think that she must have switched brains with a man or something. There could be no other explanation. In most other instances I notice that men who dote on their women get walked on and thrown out like garbage. Have you been reading triggering sites/articles/books again lately?
Woggle Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Have you been reading triggering sites/articles/books again lately? Somewhat. I was reading the Daily Mail message boards and I just kept getting more and more angry.
Stung Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Somewhat. I was reading the Daily Mail message boards and I just kept getting more and more angry. So you read a trashy mag and get angry at the trashy comments posted there by strangers, and allow that to affect your overall worldview to the point where you start badmouthing women to women who actually interact with you regularly, albeit online. Your negativity is popping up all over these boards again today. You should really try to get ahold of yourself. You were doing well for a while there, seemed like you were on a more even keel. You know, all of us cheer for you when you are pulling ahead.
Lovelybird Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I want a small wedding too. As long as he is creative. Big wedding is too much of waste of money and energy. but honey moon definitely should be a very romantic place
Woggle Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 So you read a trashy mag and get angry at the trashy comments posted there by strangers, and allow that to affect your overall worldview to the point where you start badmouthing women to women who actually interact with you regularly, albeit online. Your negativity is popping up all over these boards again today. You should really try to get ahold of yourself. You were doing well for a while there, seemed like you were on a more even keel. You know, all of us cheer for you when you are pulling ahead. Yeah you are right. One comment catches my eye and it can ruin my entire mood. I still wish more women would understand why men are so afraid of walking down the aisle. While all or most women are not like this if a man does make a mistake and marry the wrong woman and have kids with her it can ruin his life.
Stung Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Yeah you are right. One comment catches my eye and it can ruin my entire mood. I still wish more women would understand why men are so afraid of walking down the aisle. While all or most women are not like this if a man does make a mistake and marry the wrong woman and have kids with her it can ruin his life. That's true, to a degree. But it's also true that marriage is a gamble for everyone, and having kids with the wrong person can ruin many aspects of anyone's life. Being tied to a deadbeat, violent or absentee father is not exactly a picnic, either. Your wife apparently understood your fears, as she signed the prenup you asked her to. Does this not reflect well, in your eyes?
Woggle Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 My wife is a gem and I suppose there are other women like her and I imagine it is no fun being married to a no good man. That being said a woman can leave and for the most part be sure that she can be in her child's life and not have to give him a dime. You hear some women who can't fathom why a man would be afraid of marriage and that shows very little empathy for men in general and out fears and insecurities.
zengirl Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Maybe but that is all I see. You say they should pick better women but they have a very hard time finding one. It's definitely not all you see. You see your wife! I'm sure you see some other good women, too, but these trashy As to all your "fears" --- I suppose men have traditionally lost more financially in a divorce, but it's because typically the man has more money than his wife. Even now. The trends are changing. A woman with assets is becoming just as likely to lose them (some courts are still biased, but that is shrinking). In most marriages, men have more assets; that's because women still make less on average and often take time off for childcare or work less because of it (which affects the child custody stats too). But far more men have been awarded alimony or settlements in recent years than ever in the past. I'm all for making the legal system blind to gender and only looking at the merits of the case. Once gay marriage is legalized, and we go through enough homosexual divorces, I feel like that may help as well. It's also not a given that the Mom gets custody anymore, though Moms are still more likely to be primary parents these days and can demonstrate they are; the best way to preserve either joint or even paternal custody is to be the primary parent for your kids, the one who makes their food/drops them at school/dresses them in the morning/bathes them at night; the courts are getting much better at investigating this rather than assuming it's the Mom. Problem for most Dads is. . . . the Mom is usually the one doing this more often in the household. Social statistics still bear this out, but they're getting better for Dads, which means Dads are getting better. . . and that's a win/win for everyone. Personally, I'm sick of kids being used as pawns (by Moms or Dads) in divorce battles, and so are most of the courts. They're developing better criteria. And a man is in a much better spot if he was married to the mother than he is suing for custody of a child he had with a woman he never married; in those cases, the man almost never gets joint custody (primary custody is unheard of) and still pays child support. Edited February 2, 2011 by zengirl
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