Y do men propose when you're headed out the door?

January 31, 2011

First I want to say that I am not talking about all women because there are many who do not fit what I say. That being said men have a good reason for being afraid of marriage. They can talk a good game about commitment but is mainly women tearing apart families these days because they want to find themselves or they are bored or they don't feel the passion anymore.

It all sounds so great until her coworker smiles at her and all of a sudden she is no longer attracted to her husband and feels unloved despite the fact that her husband would literally die for her. It is unfair to judge all women by this but hang out in divorce court for a week and you will see countless stories like this. Go look at the divorce forum on LS. This is why many men are afraid of marriage.

One poster mentioned that if the relationship is not going any where she gets bored. What happens when they do marry and the end goal has been achieved? Will she still get bored and ask if this is it or will she appreciate the contentment that a healthy marriage is supposed to bring? Sadly in too cases a woman does the former.

January 31, 2011

of course I want a man who wants me, not only that, but also he so wants to be with me, that he decides to go ALL THE WAY.

Actually it is not fear, it is practical wisdom

So according to you it's practical wisdom for a man to risk everything for a woman, even though statistics say that 2/3rd of all marriages end up in divorce?

Then your practical wisdom fails in 67% of the cases.

If 2 people love each other so much, then they also must have the wisdom to leave each other ways out of the relationship if they no longer want to be with each other. Building a legal cordon around a relationship does not help with that.

January 31, 2011

First I want to say that I am not talking about all women because there are many who do not fit what I say. That being said men have a good reason for being afraid of marriage. They can talk a good game about commitment but is mainly women tearing apart families these days because they want to find themselves or they are bored or they don't feel the passion anymore.

It all sounds so great until her coworker smiles at her and all of a sudden she is no longer attracted to her husband and feels unloved despite the fact that her husband would literally die for her. It is unfair to judge all women by this but hang out in divorce court for a week and you will see countless stories like this. Go look at the divorce forum on LS. This is why many men are afraid of marriage.

One poster mentioned that if the relationship is not going any where she gets bored. What happens when they do marry and the end goal has been achieved? Will she still get bored and ask if this is it or will she appreciate the contentment that a healthy marriage is supposed to bring? Sadly in too cases a woman does the former.

We are similar viewed with our attitudes towards marriage but the above is not right from my perspective, though I questioned the poster you are referring to aswell - bad attitude!

In the UK men are 3 times more likely than the woman to be the adulterer cited as the main reason for divorce. Have you checked the US figures? I don't believe women are more unfaithful than men for a moment, they lack the testostorone charge!! Not saying that women can't be scheming bitches in marriages but your post doesn't compute with me and our figures don't back it up either.

January 31, 2011

First I want to say that I am not talking about all women because there are many who do not fit what I say. That being said men have a good reason for being afraid of marriage. They can talk a good game about commitment but is mainly women tearing apart families these days

That's right. Statistically, if I remember correctly in the last decade 80% of all divorces have been initiated by the woman.

In the UK men are 3 times more likely than the woman to be the adulterer cited as the main reason for divorce.

That might explains that 80% I mentioned.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Nexus One

January 31, 2011

That's right. Statistically, if I remember correctly in the last decade 80% of all divorces have been initiated by the woman. Incidentally it's often also the woman that wants to get married.

I am curious to see what percentage of this 80 that you claim are due to the woman being abused in some way or because she was cheated on.

January 31, 2011

I am curious to see what percentage of this 80 that you claim are due to the woman being abused in some way or because she was cheated on.

Fair enough, I think that percentage will be high.

January 31, 2011

So according to you it's practical wisdom for a man to risk everything for a woman, even though statistics say that 2/3rd of all marriages end up in divorce?

Yes, that's right. This is male psychology 101

If they don't invest much, they don't value. If they don't work for you, they don't value you. Even if a woman is a precious ruby, and she doesn't make the man work for her, he lacks of the ability to see that

January 31, 2011

For me, marriage means that you both have decided to unite formally, showing that you have accepted each other warts and all, through thick and thin etc.

Marriage should not be taken lightly, and it says a lot about the character of your SO if, they take you to the cleaners.

However, having been taken for a mini clean out by my ex, I am not opposed to a pre-nup. at all.

If I meet someone, and we both want a future together, then yes, I do want to get married. I would hope that I am important enough for him accept that, and want marriage as well.

January 31, 2011

I wanted to chime in and the original topic, which is "Why do men propose when you're headed out the door?"

I don't think the original posted was saying all men do this, but more why does it happen as often as it does.

My experience with this was when I was 19yrs old, and I was fed up with my boyfriend and he called me after being arrested. He chose that phone call to propose. He hadn't called to propose, I think it was a damage control move, based on his circumstance and seeing the sucky direction his life was going when he was in control of all his choices.

January 31, 2011

I read it and it made sense. Then I read some of the responses. THAT'S where I get confused.

OP didn't seem to want this guy to propose in the first place. I didn't get the sense that she was hassling him to get married to her at any point in what she conveyed. She may want marriage someday to some guy, but it didn't sound like this was the guy in her mind at all. It sounded much more to me that she was moving on, he proposed, she said no and moved to another city only to get hornley enough to turn weak and let him move in with her. That was the only thing she seemed wrong in doing.

Yet now its all about a proposal she pined for that he only gave after she lost hope? She gave a link to a previous thread about how she feels about this guy. That and this thread are all about her not thinking this is the right guy for her so why does everyone seem to think she was hanging on a line, painfully awaiting some long over due proposal?

I know I'm a bit late chiming in again, but I haven't had time to get online much. Thanks so much for understanding the true meat of this thread! Many of you understand it clearly.

And btw, I think it;s cool that people are discussing marriage to this extent in this thread. It makes for very intensive conversation b/c there are so many opinions about marriage.

Although I wouldn't mind being married at some point and getting a sincere proposal (and who's to say his wasnt sincere...he's just not the guy for me in the long-term), I question marriage and people's motives this day and time. I'm not one of those gals who want marriage just b/c my friends are doing it or just to get a big wedding. I've seen sooo many marriages not workout and/or still exist, but with infidelity ad nauseum. Neither am I materialistic. However I like nice things, I like to be treated well and I want a relationship where I'm comfortable bringing the guy around people...that's right I said it, PEOPLE!...sometimes I never know will come out of his(my S2BX's) mouth. As I mentioned in my reference link to the issues I have w/my S2BX, we're just on 2 different wavelengths and I have told him those feelings. He's had brain injury and I tried accepting it. But even his mother told me in conversation once, he will never act the way you may expect people to act. He is very different and if you don't accept all of who he really is, it may be best to let him go. This is what my mother said and this is what I told myself...That's mainly why I cannot be with him. He's very difficult to be with at times b/c he is very possessive at times then acts like he doesn't realize it then acts like real issues are no big deal. That's a long list of examples. Will post later if anyone cares to know.

At one point he asked me to tell him everything that I wanted him to change and work on and he tried. However, some things can't be changed and why would I want him to change evrything. It wouldn't be the real him...

January 31, 2011

That isn't the case. I've been proposed to within the first year of a relationship and declined to marry the guy in question because I wasn't in love with him; in fact his proposal made me consider the long term prospects of our relationship and I actually dumped him because I realized I didn't ever want to marry him. But when I decide I do want to be with a guy, I want the whole deal - marriage, mortgage, kids, everything. If a guy isn't interested in that then we're incompatible, so if we aren't moving towards marriage then I'm wasting my time.

No, it isn't a race - but other couples set the bar for what is a reasonable timeline for commitment. If other men are committing within a 2-3 year timeframe and my man isn't committing to me, then something is wrong. I don't have forever to hang around waiting for him to make up his mind, because if several years down the line he decides not to marry me then I'm screwed in terms of falling in love again within a reasonable timeframe to have kids.

I eventually want to be a wife and mother, and there are a number of potentially compatible men who I could fall in love with and share those things with. I can't stay with a guy who is opposed to those goals; if I know he can't offer me those things I have to move on, no matter how much I care for him. I will eventually fall in love with someone else who does want the same things I do.

Mostly agree with this thinking...and you have every right to feel this way.

Edited January 31, 2011 by luvflower

January 31, 2011

I think that for many men they love the commitment and everything but marriage is just a piece of paper. I married my wife because she wanted it and I made sure she signed a prenup that was looked over by a pitbull lawyer. In this day and age where people get divorced as easily as they used to breakup in high school does that piece of paper really mean anything?

I gotta give it to you WOGGIE:D, so many people don't take marriage seriously at all...I don't blame u for getting the prenup.

January 31, 2011

People are movitated by both pleasure and pain(loss). You seem to want them to be only motivated by pleasure.

Sometimes people (men and women) don't realize what they have until they are about to lose it. That is because the pain of losing what they have becomes greater than the pain that's being holding them back.

Being placed in a position of being about to lose someone sometimes makes them realize what they have. That might be just what they need. It doesn't mean they love you any less or don't really want to marry you or are playing some type of proposal-card to reel you back in. Maybe that's what they need to realize what they have.

It may not follow a fantasy script of everything flowing the way you envision, and they wanting you based on your own desires of how it should flow, but don't discount that he doesn't want you or love you just because his way of getting there doesn't fit your ideas of how he should get there.

At the end of the day, what do you want? A guy who loves you and proposes in his own way, or a guy who does it by some fantasy script?

The fantasy script will work for me as long as he does it on his own, without my prompting or leaving, and as long as we are on the same wavelength (for crying out loud)...

February 1, 2011

Yes, that's right. This is male psychology 101

If they don't invest much, they don't value. If they don't work for you, they don't value you. Even if a woman is a precious ruby, and she doesn't make the man work for her, he lacks of the ability to see that

Marriage for a man is not much work though. It is more like playing russian roulette.

February 1, 2011

I don't think divorce should be as easy as it is either, and I know it wouldn't be easy for me.

TRUE DAT!

Some people still take marriage seriously. To me, there is no real "commitment" in living together. Maybe in buying a house together or having kids, but without the commitment of marriage. . . I'd never do that. To me, marriage IS the commitment.

Now that's the crazy part about my S2BX. I definitely agree that there's no real commitment in living together, but he's said several times "let's have kids" at one point he tried in a sneaky way.... When I took a prego test, he kept asking for the results and wanting the results to be positive. He said he wanted something that would make us closer. He has a kid already and does pay child support, but he doesn't see his kid b/c of the crazy "baby mama":eek:...

He also keeps saying he wants us to have a house together. He has financially taken care of me when I left my job, he's done some good things, but when you're not comfortable bringing a guy around people just because of the way he is and he gets on your nerves more often than not due to his passive aggressiveness, if you will, I think it's only fair to let him go and give myself a piece of mind...

February 1, 2011

To be honest, if the situation has got to the point where I've made the decision to leave him, it's a bit too late for him to propose. By that point I'll already have checked out of the relationship. I find that a relationship begins to deteriorate when a proposal isn't forthcoming after a couple of years; if I feel that the relationship isn't going anywhere I start to lose interest in sex, start arguing with him, start eyeing up other men - by the time I leave him the relationship is pretty much over with no chance of redemption, not even if he proposes.

I feel ya on this, completely...

BTW, my S2BX first proposed within the first 6 months of our relationship...not sure if that means anything in the grand scheme of things...

February 1, 2011

I think the proposal bait trick implies a really warped set of beliefs about women. A guy who employs this must think women everywhere are so desperate for marriage that no matter how incompatible, no matter what issues are behind the woman's reasoning for wanting to end the relationship, the words "will you marry me" will stun her into compliance.

Just look through the thread. People as so confused about this that they automatically thought this was about her acting out in some hail mary tactic to get him to propose that some couldn't even see she had already thought better of choosing this man and this relationship. Others are so firmly entrenched in this marriage push pull misconception they must chime in with completely inapplicable, broken record personal agendas. Prenupts? Percentages of women filing for divorce and why? Non commitment tendencies in men?

Whats any of that got to do with pulling a human tick off your back?

February 1, 2011

Percentages of women filing for divorce and why? Non commitment tendencies in men?

Whats any of that got to do with pulling a human tick off your back?

I agree that this thread has gone off-topic somewhat, I'm partly to blame. Sorry for that, mea culpa.

February 1, 2011

I think you could already be in love with the man before finding out really deep stuff, by which I would not abandon that person I loved because they needed to work some stuff out.

I think you and I do, as you say later, like different men for different reasons. I don't fall in love with a guy who appears to have issues with commitment. In fact, I only dig guys who dig mutual commitment and openness, and I tend to find men who talk about things like marriage and kids (in a hypothetical non-smothering way) fairly early on, in terms of their goals and such. I call them "marriage-minded men" generally, or men who thrive in LTRs. Now, mind you, these are not magical creatures who have never been hurt in their lives----they are men who have overcome the bad in their lives and remained open and loving. Much better.

Except that these days, those "fears" as you call them are based on statistics. 2/3rds of all people that get married in Western countries end up getting divorced. Traditionally men have been the ones who ended up losing property, money and their children. It's easy talking for you as a woman that you don't want a man that "fears" legal commitment, it's tough talk. Men generally have other things they'll lose after a divorce, we get stripped bare emotionally(children) and financially.

And I don't have any interest in a man who sees me as a statistic. Really.

I don't mind pre-nups, FTR. Talking about money shouldn't be an issue between people who are getting married, and plenty of people get them these days.

Don't get me wrong, I understand where you women are coming from. You're afraid too. You're afraid you get pregnant an we'll leave you. After which you'll have to bear the full burden of raising those children. But men that pull that kind of sh*t have no character in the first place. While there are certainly men out there like that, by no means every man is like that.

I'm not really afraid. I just want someone who wants to commit to me forever in the most permanent way possible in our society, not someone who has excuses for why that's not a good idea, based on statistics and fear and whatever. That's not to say some people just don't dig marriage. That's cool. They aren't for me.

And that's why you want the weight of the legal system behind you, because you know you can't trust your guts on a man's character. And you (often) want it both ways, you want the alpha male and have him committed to you.

I tend to like shy, nerdy guys, and these guys tend to like marriage. At least the ones I've dated. My BF has a goal to get married and have a family, similar to what I do. If we continue and find ourselves compatible, I imagine maybe we will (too early now). I find the only men who have to be henpecked into marriage are the jerks, really. If a good guy sees a woman he adores, he wants to lock that **** down. That's the observations I've seen time and again in real life, with the exception being perhaps men who are already divorced. . . and even then, I've seen it; my step-father was brutally attacked by his first wife in so many ways during the divorce --- she basically left him a "Dear John" letter and was just horrible to him --- yet he still proposed to my Mother, without any prompting, because he couldn't imagine not marrying her----that's the kind of guy that'd be worth sticking around for, through thick and thin, and that kind of guy? Well, every guy I've met like that? He wants to get married.

So, maybe marriage-minded is just another way to judge the personality/character of a guy.

That's right. Statistically, if I remember correctly in the last decade 80% of all divorces have been initiated by the woman.

That just means the women filed the paperwork. And also the stat has gone DOWN since then, and was last recorded in the 80s. The trend has gone down since the 50s --- somebody posted links to this the last time somebody spouted it --- and the agency that was researching it stopped researching before 1990. So who knows what it is now?

February 1, 2011

...And you (often) want it both ways, you want the alpha male and have him committed to you.

And that sh*t right there ladies, does not fly.

Lol...

I can truly appreciate your forthrightness... I wonder how much of it is actually a consensus amongst men.

Roll call men)))

February 1, 2011

Look up the walkaway wife epidemic. It is happening left and right in modern day marriages these days.

I actually do take marriage very seriously and I am very committed. This is because I married a woman who feels the same way I do and was willing to do things like sign a prenup to show she took the commitment seriously. Understand a man's point of view and his fears about marriage tells whether she is marriage material or not.

February 1, 2011

Yes very different types of men, as I just saw towards the bottom of your post. It's only my recent man who has what you would class as 'commitment issues' but generally I am attracted to strong silent types with very masculine personalities. But all irrelevant in terms of the topic as I don't have any dreams/requirements to get married, though I do have a wedding dress and one cancelled wedding under my belt. Which has reminded me I should try and sell the thing!!

February 1, 2011

Look up the walkaway wife epidemic. It is happening left and right in modern day marriages these days.

I actually do take marriage very seriously and I am very committed. This is because I married a woman who feels the same way I do and was willing to do things like sign a prenup to show she took the commitment seriously. Understand a man's point of view and his fears about marriage tells whether she is marriage material or not.

I couldn't agree more. I think down to earth grounded people will look at both sides instead of want want want.

February 1, 2011

I think the proposal bait trick implies a really warped set of beliefs about women. A guy who employs this must think women everywhere are so desperate for marriage that no matter how incompatible, no matter what issues are behind the woman's reasoning for wanting to end the relationship, the words "will you marry me" will stun her into compliance.

Just look through the thread. People as so confused about this that they automatically thought this was about her acting out in some hail mary tactic to get him to propose that some couldn't even see she had already thought better of choosing this man and this relationship. Others are so firmly entrenched in this marriage push pull misconception they must chime in with completely inapplicable, broken record personal agendas. Prenupts? Percentages of women filing for divorce and why? Non commitment tendencies in men?

Whats any of that got to do with pulling a human tick off your back?

Lol...Yes...yes...yes! I couldn't have said this any better.

You're on point! Thanks.

Though, I don't mind the slight diversions on the topic. Posters are making some thought provoking statements. Yours, sally4sara is truly appreciated though...Thnx again.

February 1, 2011

Look up the walkaway wife epidemic. It is happening left and right in modern day marriages these days.

I actually do take marriage very seriously and I am very committed. This is because I married a woman who feels the same way I do and was willing to do things like sign a prenup to show she took the commitment seriously. Understand a man's point of view and his fears about marriage tells whether she is marriage material or not.

Usually "too understanding or giving too much " women finish last, or doormat in marriage. Most of cases men don't appreciate this kind of women. so hense, return to the topic, many women who are dragged by men's fear and uncommitment, they will have doubt for themselves and the relationship even they deny this by themselves. The relationship either proceed or go backward

Edited February 1, 2011 by Lovelybird

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