luvflower Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 So please anyone, if you have any insight to this matter your feedback is much appreciated. The guy I'm about to break ties with has proposed once when I was about to breakup w/him a while back. I gave the ring back... Now he's mentioning it again, but I think this is it...meaning I'm really about to BOUNCE/leave him/be done... If you read some of my other posts you can get a brief history of my issue with this guy: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t262041/ But back to the point. Why do proposals seem to come many times when the female is about to break up w/ the guy?? My logic was, if he could propose then, why couldn't he do it earlier on when I mentioned not being comfortable shacking. Perhaps I'm partially to blame...or not...?
sagetalk Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 But back to the point. Why do proposals seem to come many times when the female is about to break up w/ the guy?? My logic was, if he could propose then, why couldn't he do it earlier on when I mentioned not being comfortable shacking. Perhaps I'm partially to blame...or not...? It seems that you are still interested in him, or you like drama, or probably both. He's to blame for shacking up with you without marrying you. You're to blame for letting him do it. It's a draw. This doesn't sound like a healthy relationship to me. I would step back and take a serious look at your life before you do something that will alter it forever (which marriage does). Seek the advice of friends and family as well, they know your situation better than any of us on here do.
mo mo Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 I dunno Why do women get pregnant when there are problems in a relationship? See what I did there?
Nexus One Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Grossly dramatized hypothesis: You: *Slaps him in the face in anger.* Why haven't you married me yet!? Him: *shivers in fear* ... *hard* You: I've had it with you! I know what I want. I've been dreaming of this since I was a little girl, I am ENTITLED! Him: Sorry... You: No. NO! I'm not putting up with you ANY longer! I'm going, bye! I'm packing my stuff. You see me going? I'm walking to the door, I'm opening the door, stepping outsiiiiiide.... Him: (Ok, let's give her what she wants before she's gone) Will you marry me? You: *does the chicken neck swivel from left to right thing and you wave your index finger* Oh no he di'int! *rips him apart* Sorry luvflower, don't take any of that seriously. I can't get over myself. You deserve a sincere answer. I can't give you one other than him having had to build up the courage and being desperate at the last moment. I don't know the dynamics between you two well enough to make a proper judgement, even with the background info you linked to.
tami-chan Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 I dunno Why do women get pregnant when there are problems in a relationship? See what I did there? oh I don't know....why do men not use protection when they know there are problems in the relationship? See what I did there?
mo mo Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 oh I don't know....why do men not use protection when they know there are problems in the relationship? See what I did there? Because she has been on the pill for the past 6 months and she promised me she takes her doses regularly. See what she did there?
tami-chan Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Because she has been on the pill for the past 6 months and she promised me she takes her doses regularly. See what she did there? Hello? there are problems in the relationships....er....ever heard of 'self-preservation? now, see what I just did THERE!
mo mo Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Hello? there are problems in the relationships....er....ever heard of 'self-preservation? now, see what I just did THERE! Self-preservation... genius ok ok you win! I was just trying to make fun of the generalization OP made. As if every guy that ever existed proposed to his soon to be ex gf.
Eeyore79 Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 I have received a "too little, too late" proposal on more than one occasion. In general, guys tend to propose when they feel you're losing interest and they need to do something drastic to suck you back into the relationship. They realise you're about to leave because of their lack of commitment and other issues, so they hint at a commitment that they don't actually want, purely because it's better than the alternative of losing you. One time, I dumped a guy and he started moaning "But we can't break up - I was going to marry you!" Erm, yeah... but you didn't, did you? Sorry, but it's far too late now to pretend that you want to be committed to me, after you've just spent the last couple of years demonstrating that you don't want to!
tami-chan Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Self-preservation... genius ok ok you win! LOL...thanks for playing!
mo mo Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 I have received a "too little, too late" proposal on more than one occasion. In general, guys tend to propose when they feel you're losing interest and they need to do something drastic to suck you back into the relationship. They realise you're about to leave because of their lack of commitment and other issues, so they hint at a commitment that they don't actually want, purely because it's better than the alternative of losing you. One time, I dumped a guy and he started moaning "But we can't break up - I was going to marry you!" Erm, yeah... but you didn't, did you? Sorry, but it's far too late now to pretend that you want to be committed to me, after you've just spent the last couple of years demonstrating that you don't want to! This sounds really strange to me. You say guys do it as a last resort even though they don't want the commitment? That they do it out of fear of losing you? Umm.. I think if he was afraid to lose you that would mean he is already committed, even though the relationship isn't identified as a marriage. Maybe he wanted to save up for a really nice wedding??
Nexus One Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 One time, I dumped a guy and he started moaning "But we can't break up - I was going to marry you!" Erm, yeah... but you didn't, did you? Sorry, but it's far too late now to pretend that you want to be committed to me, after you've just spent the last couple of years demonstrating that you don't want to! Was him not having married you yet after those years the reason for you to break up or was there another reason?
Eeyore79 Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 You say guys do it as a last resort even though they don't want the commitment? That they do it out of fear of losing you? Guys often seem happy to tick along in an unmarried state for as long as they possibly can. I'd expect that if they were happy in a relationship they'd want to make it permanent, but that doesn't seem to be the case; instead it seems that they want to avoid commitment but still keep you hanging around on an unmarried basis. They don't want to lose you, but don't want to get married either. Then when you finally check out of the relationship because of their lack of commitment, they propose - because although they don't really want to marry you it's still a lesser evil than being alone and having to find another girlfriend to make their dinners and handle all their crap. I want a guy who actively wants to marry me, not a guy who only proposes because it's a lesser evil than losing me completely. Umm.. I think if he was afraid to lose you that would mean he is already committed, even though the relationship isn't identified as a marriage. In my view, he isn't committed until there's a ring on my finger. If there's no ring within a reasonable time period (i.e. a few years) then I'll leave and look for someone who is willing to offer me the whole marriage and kids deal. I'm not about to sit around for years on end with an uncommitted guy, watching my wrinkles grow as my chance of being married with kids recedes into the distance. If a guy isn't going to marry me and have kids, I need to get out there and find a guy who will before I'm too old to do so. Maybe he wanted to save up for a really nice wedding?? We could have saved for a wedding together while we were engaged. No engagement ring = no commitment. Was him not having married you yet after those years the reason for you to break up or was there another reason? In general, I got bored with the relationship not progressing. I was three years down the line with one guy and he wasn't even ready to live together. When I dumped him, he proposed! I dated another guy for two years and we didn't even get engaged, while our friends were past the engagement stage and into having weddings and babies. We were friends with couples who started dating after we did, and they were married with kids by the time I finally got fed up with my relationship going nowhere. Another guy said he wasn't ready to get married to anyone - he still wasn't ready two years later, and couldn't tell me when he would be ready, or even if he would ever be ready, and I was already edging closer to thirty - so I dumped him to go in search of better prospects. Lack of commitment wasn't the only problem in those relationships, but I think it contributed to a lot of other problems. I gradually checked out of the relationship when a commitment wasn't forthcoming after a couple of years, and my loss of interest caused a whole raft of arguments and other issues. A lot of problems could have been helped if he made a commitment, since I would have checked back into the relationship and made more of an effort to make it work, instead of gradually checking out even further because it was obviously going nowhere.
Nexus One Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 In my view, he isn't committed until there's a ring on my finger. If there's no ring within a reasonable time period (i.e. a few years) then I'll leave and look for someone who is willing to offer me the whole marriage and kids deal. I'm not about to sit around for years on end with an uncommitted guy, watching my wrinkles grow as my chance of being married with kids recedes into the distance. If a guy isn't going to marry me and have kids, I need to get out there and find a guy who will before I'm too old to do so. We could have saved for a wedding together while we were engaged. No engagement ring = no commitment. In general, I got bored with the relationship not progressing. I was three years down the line with one guy and he wasn't even ready to live together. When I dumped him, he proposed! I dated another guy for two years and we didn't even get engaged, while our friends were past the engagement stage and into having weddings and babies. We were friends with couples who started dating after we did, and they were married with kids by the time I finally got fed up with my relationship going nowhere. Another guy said he wasn't ready to get married to anyone - he still wasn't ready two years later, and couldn't tell me when he would be ready, or even if he would ever be ready, and I was already edging closer to thirty - so I dumped him to go in search of better prospects. Lack of commitment wasn't the only problem in those relationships, but I think it contributed to a lot of other problems. I gradually checked out of the relationship when a commitment wasn't forthcoming after a couple of years, and my loss of interest caused a whole raft of arguments and other issues. A lot of problems could have been helped if he made a commitment, since I would have checked back into the relationship and made more of an effort to make it work, instead of gradually checking out even further because it was obviously going nowhere. In all honesty, you scare me, because in effect you're saying that you're not with a man FOR HIM, but to get your need for marriage filled. It seems like you have a placeholder and that placeholder needs to get filled, if one guy can't fill it, then you go looking for the next guy who possibly can. Also the fact that you're comparing yourself to other couples and peers seems like a skewed attitude. Love is not about other couples, it's not a race that determines who gets married first. If you wouldn't be with me FOR ME, then I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with you. A lover is not some abstract easily replaceable object. You should be with a man because you want to be with that man, regardless of the legal status or label that you put on that relationship. You're not the first woman to have expressed this attitude on these forums. For men it's a scary attitude, I can tell you that.
mo mo Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 In all honesty, you scare me, because in effect you're saying that you're not with a man FOR HIM, but to get your need for marriage filled. It seems like you have a placeholder and that placeholder needs to get filled, if one guy can't fill it, then you go looking for the next guy who possibly can. Also the fact that you're comparing yourself to other couples and peers seems like a skewed attitude. Love is not about other couples, it's not a race that determines who gets married first. If you wouldn't be with me FOR ME, then I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with you. A lover is not some abstract easily replaceable object. You should be with a man because you want to be with that man, regardless of the legal status or label that you put on that relationship. You're not the first woman to have expressed this attitude on these forums. For men it's a scary attitude, I can tell you that. Quoted for truth!! I could not have said it better. That post made it sound like all she wanted was a ring and a wedding. She defines that as the commitment, not the fact that he was with her for years and did not want to lose her when she started to drift away. Scary indeed.
depplover_1980 Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 As a woman I also find this attitude scary! It is almost like a robotic chip has been planted and the mission is to find a husband. I cannot imagine being married, or go through the stress of raising children without the real deal. I think there is to much pressure in society that women feel they must have children and get married; it is installed from a young age when little girls dream of weddings.
Woggle Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 The irony is that women with this approach are also the first to leave when the marriage does not fit some impossible fairytale fantasy she has in her head. I t's like having a wedding is something to cross off on the bucket list and after that they have no use for the man. This is what many men are afraid of.
sweetjasmine Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 That post made it sound like all she wanted was a ring and a wedding. She defines that as the commitment, not the fact that he was with her for years and did not want to lose her when she started to drift away. To be fair, I don't see being together with someone for three years and having them still refuse to live together or move forward in any other way as commitment. I'm sort of on the same page as Eeyore. I know that I'm looking for a serious commitment followed by marriage, a home, and children, so if someone's unsure or doesn't want what I want, it's best for both of us to move on. I refuse to stay with someone for years hoping that they'll change their mind and I refuse to try to argue my way into marriage because that's certainly not healthy and not a good way to start anything. It's a waste of both people's time to stay together when you have widely differing goals and desires.
zengirl Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 In all honesty, you scare me, because in effect you're saying that you're not with a man FOR HIM, but to get your need for marriage filled. It seems like you have a placeholder and that placeholder needs to get filled, if one guy can't fill it, then you go looking for the next guy who possibly can. Also the fact that you're comparing yourself to other couples and peers seems like a skewed attitude. Love is not about other couples, it's not a race that determines who gets married first. If you wouldn't be with me FOR ME, then I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with you. A lover is not some abstract easily replaceable object. You should be with a man because you want to be with that man, regardless of the legal status or label that you put on that relationship. You're not the first woman to have expressed this attitude on these forums. For men it's a scary attitude, I can tell you that. I get what you're saying, but I think her attitude was much different than that. She wanted those guys enough to invest considerably in the relationship. They chose not to invest in her. She wants a life that includes marriage and kids (with a man she chooses, not with just anyone, or else she wouldn't have waited that long for those guys) and being with a man --- even one she loves --- who cannot commit to give her that, after a reasonable timeline, well, that just isn't healthy. I would never be with someone I loved if they had some major issue --- whatever it was --- that prevented them from giving me something I needed to be happy. A lifetime commitment is that something for many people, and it's a reasonable one in the eyes of many people. The people who don't prioritize marriage/commitment shouldn't be dating the ones who do---it's as simple as that. And it's the same with life's other major priorities. At the end of the day, when you want to find someone to love you forever, who you love forever, and the person you love says, "Yeah, I don't really know about FOREVER with you" then how is it healthy to stick around in that limbo?
Eeyore79 Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 In all honesty, you scare me, because in effect you're saying that you're not with a man FOR HIM, but to get your need for marriage filled. It seems like you have a placeholder and that placeholder needs to get filled, if one guy can't fill it, then you go looking for the next guy who possibly can. That isn't the case. I've been proposed to within the first year of a relationship and declined to marry the guy in question because I wasn't in love with him; in fact his proposal made me consider the long term prospects of our relationship and I actually dumped him because I realized I didn't ever want to marry him. But when I decide I do want to be with a guy, I want the whole deal - marriage, mortgage, kids, everything. If a guy isn't interested in that then we're incompatible, so if we aren't moving towards marriage then I'm wasting my time. Also the fact that you're comparing yourself to other couples and peers seems like a skewed attitude. Love is not about other couples, it's not a race that determines who gets married first. No, it isn't a race - but other couples set the bar for what is a reasonable timeline for commitment. If other men are committing within a 2-3 year timeframe and my man isn't committing to me, then something is wrong. I don't have forever to hang around waiting for him to make up his mind, because if several years down the line he decides not to marry me then I'm screwed in terms of falling in love again within a reasonable timeframe to have kids. You should be with a man because you want to be with that man, regardless of the legal status or label that you put on that relationship. I eventually want to be a wife and mother, and there are a number of potentially compatible men who I could fall in love with and share those things with. I can't stay with a guy who is opposed to those goals; if I know he can't offer me those things I have to move on, no matter how much I care for him. I will eventually fall in love with someone else who does want the same things I do.
Author luvflower Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 Thanks for all the feedback guys! I'm taking it all in for sure.! If I could just chime in real quick though, just in case one or two people, i.e. sagetalk!...perceive this thread as advice seeking for whether I should marry this guy or not. First of all, he hasnt proposed a 2nd time...I gave the ring back the first time and broke up with him the first time b/c he started dispalying bizarre behavior like th ecomplusive calling, e.g. literally calling like 10+ times a day while I was at work...then that coupled w/baby mama drama. Now those are reasons why I broke up w/him. YES, I care for him but the break up was to save myself from more drama. So sagetalk, no I don't like drama and there's no need to consult family and friends for this topic. This thread didn't say: Should I accept the proposal from my soon to be X... I'm merely starting this topic to get dialogue going and to receive insight on why men think a woman is going to jump for joy because they propose when the female is about to leave them. So, basically I felt a bit sorry for him and got weak. I'll be honest about that. But ended up leaving him again and moved to another city. He moved as well. Now I'm at the point where I'm about to be done w/him after seeing him during this time because after some of my actions and his own reasons, I feel like he's been more spiteful than not, which has pushed me further away from him. He acts like I'm being mean for asking him to leave this last time. But I feel like I'm at the point where I'm tired of being emotionally drained by him and what he has brought n2 my life. So sagetalk, no I do not like drama whatsoever, thank you very much. Just because I'm in it doesn't mean I like it. We all find ourselves in situation we don't like from time to time. But we eventually get out of these situations,which is what I'm trying to do. Just because you don't hear hurt or pain in the words I type doesn't mean I'm not hurting or planning my life after leaving this guy... That's why it's called life...and that's why we come here to loveshack...
Eeyore79 Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I'm merely starting this topic to get dialogue going and to receive insight on why men think a woman is going to jump for joy because they propose when the female is about to leave them. Well... I think men expect that a woman will jump for joy when she's proposed to, because they've been led to believe that commitment is what women want. It isn't - we also want that commitment to be the natural and timely result of love. A woman wants to be proposed to because her man loves her and wants to be with her forever of his own free will, not because he's been pressured into it by the threat of losing her if he doesn't commit. That sort of proposal isn't an expression of true love, it's an expression of "Well, okay then, I don't really want to but if I must..."That simply isn't good enough, and certainly won't last a lifetime
depplover_1980 Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Make your minds up. Some men just don't believe in the institution of marriage but could love you to bits regardless, so they propose to make you happy and then that's not good enough?? Does not make sense. Surely it is way to idealistic to expect to meet someone who fulfils all your needs, that you are best friends with and then share some old fashioned marriage views. The children bit would come naturally with time and sometimes by accident!! All I am saying is it's ridiculous to critise a man who suddenly proposes to make you happy, who does not share your views. Accept and be delighted he is willing to sacrifice his previous beliefs for your happiness.
Eeyore79 Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 I tend to think that if a guy doesn't want to marry me, he shouldn't marry me! Marriage is a serious business, it isn't easy, and you shouldn't enter into it if it isn't absolutely what you really truly want. A half-hearted engagement will lead to a half-hearted marriage, and ultimately to a divorce. If I married him knowing full well that he didn't really want marriage and was only doing it for my benefit, then I'd only have myself to blame when my marriage failed. I'm looking for a trusted lifetime partner who wants to commit to me and to our relationship, not someone I have to co-erce into marriage by threatening to leave. If a man doesn't share my values regarding commitment, marriage, and family, then we aren't really compatible and probably shouldn't be getting married anyway. He doesn't have to be perfect, but we have to love each other, and he has to want marriage and a family in the long term. I don't think that wanting my partner and I to love each other and mutually desire commitment is an unrealistic expectation.
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