Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I am going to school for wildlife biology. My house is full of animals now, but it's nothing compared to how it will be when I finish my degree. I imagine that in a few short years, I will have nothing short of a reptile zoo. My fiance knows this. I've warned him about this for years. Not only do I love doing animal rescue, but I also need a large collection for herpetology lectures, outreach programs, etc. I will probably have my own barn for the animals eventually, but still, he will be in contact with them. He has always had a dog growing up. His experience is ONLY with domesticated animals. But wild animals are COMPLETELY different. From the beginning, we have fought over him treating my wild animals as if they were domesticated. He ends up terrifying them...animals that were abused do not need that! He just doesn't seem to get it. Take today for instance. We have an iguana who was a rescue. He is "somewhat" tame, but he can still be very feisty. It was a gorgeous day today, so I put a harness on him (which I will ONLY do when they are getting tame, and I'm extremely careful when I do it). I was planning on taking him outside and sitting with him in the sun. My fiance comes running up excitedly and picks the iguana up. He opens the door and (with me yelling and screaming at him) sets the iguana down outside the door on a leash. I guess he was expecting to walk him like a dog. But he is NOT a dog! The iguana immediately takes off running until he gets to the end of his leash, then becomes terrified realizing that he is caught, and begins doing a death roll. When my fiance picks him up, he starts thrashing and trying to bite (this is an iguana that is otherwise not aggressive at all). I was FURIOUS. I demanded that he give me the iguana so that I could calm him and take him back inside. He REFUSED. Like a 10 year old! It went back and forth for a bit, but I was not about to play tug of war with the iguana, and my fiance is a lot stronger than me so there is no point fighting about it. Plus, we are not second graders! I shouldn't have to do this. So I slammed the door and went back inside. (I know, not mature of me. I'm not usually like that at all, I'm calm and I can talk rationally when I have a problem. But this just sends me over the edge!) Long story short, my fiance ends up tying the iguana to a tree and leaving him there. He gets off the leash and we frantically have to look for him in all the trees. Luckily, we found him and got him. But if we wouldn't have, he would have died tonight in the cold. My fiance is telling me that I should have gone and gotten him off of the leash if I thought it was dangerous. I should have. But I also shouldn't have had to run out and go get him as soon as my fiance walked away. He should have given him to me when I demanded him to, since obviously he has no idea what he is doing when it comes to wild animals! There are other stories (him chasing an extremely abused parrot with a baseball and an alligator skull, thinking it's "playing.") But this post has gotten long enough. Bottom line, this is something I am VERY passionate about and it is something that has to be dealt with. There are no other problems in our relationship right now, but I'm worried that one day he is going to really hurt an animal, or even hurt himself (if I have venomous snakes or a really aggressive reptile that he can't handle). NOTHING infuriates me like this. I can't take it, and he doesn't seem to understand why it is so bad! UGH. Sorry for the rant. I'm so angry right now I feel sick.
threebyfate Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 As a thought, why not sit down with your fiance for a serious talk when you're both calm. Explain one more time how important this is to you that he treat these animals in a respectful manner. If he continues to act like a ten year-old, my question to you is why you're still with him.
zicke Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Why are you putting wild reptiles on leashes in the first place? I absolutely do not believe that you are actually rehabbing all sorts of animals, are engaged to a sociopath and allowing said rehab animals to be tortured. I call troll. If you aren't a troll, someone needs to take those animals away from you, stat.
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 Why are you putting wild reptiles on leashes in the first place? I absolutely do not believe that you are actually rehabbing all sorts of animals, are engaged to a sociopath and allowing said rehab animals to be tortured. I call troll. If you aren't a troll, someone needs to take those animals away from you, stat. Are you serious? Iguanas can go on leashes. Go to iguana forums and talk to the countless people who put their iguanas on leashes. I agree, it CAN be harmful/stressful when someone doesn't know what they are doing. Natural sunlight is great for iguanas, and it was 70 degrees today. I wanted to take my iguana outside with me to enjoy the sunlight, but just in case something crazy happened, I wanted to make sure I could control him. Leashes can be used very beneficially, as long as the lizard is tame enough. I've been doing it for years and never had a problem. The situation I described above is an example of how NOT to use a leash, and it won't ever happen again if I have anything to say about it. No, I am not a troll. And my fiance is not a sociopath, by far. He just does not understand wild animals at ALL.
zicke Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Are you serious? Iguanas can go on leashes. Go to iguana forums and talk to the countless people who put their iguanas on leashes. I agree, it CAN be harmful/stressful when someone doesn't know what they are doing. Natural sunlight is great for iguanas, and it was 70 degrees today. I wanted to take my iguana outside with me to enjoy the sunlight, but just in case something crazy happened, I wanted to make sure I could control him. Leashes can be used very beneficially, as long as the lizard is tame enough. I've been doing it for years and never had a problem. The situation I described above is an example of how NOT to use a leash, and it won't ever happen again if I have anything to say about it. No, I am not a troll. And my fiance is not a sociopath, by far. He just does not understand wild animals at ALL. But, you explained yourself that you are careful about putting these iguanas on a leash, and yet... you let your fiance torture the animal. Sunlight is great for Iguanas, but not when they are being tortured. Is this your Iguana? Or one you are rehabbing??? Your fiance sounds like a sociopath. Sorry.
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=2254528594 Check out this facebook group, which is the facebook page for a very reputable green iguana rescue and care website. Check out the photos, if you have a facebook. You can see iguanas on leashes in public parks being socialized (very good for them), iguanas in Halloween costumes, etc. (not sure I'd got that far...but whatever). Igs are very tolerant creatures and with good socialization, leashes are very beneficial. Anyway...way off subject.
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) But, you explained yourself that you are careful about putting these iguanas on a leash, and yet... you let your fiance torture the animal. Sunlight is great for Iguanas, but not when they are being tortured. Is this your Iguana? Or one you are rehabbing??? Your fiance sounds like a sociopath. Sorry. How did I LET him do it? He is bigger than me and he was refusing to give the animal back. What was supposed to do, hit him? He is not a sociopath. He expected the animal to behave differently than it did. When things went wrong, he picked the animal up and he did calm it down. He didn't intentionally torture it. THAT would be sociopathic. Here is the thing. He is great with domesticated animals. He loves our iguana...feeds him, bathes him, handles him constantly and it very good with him. The problem arises when he mistakenly thinks that the iguana is going to behave similarly to a dog or cat. And it just doesn't work out that way. Edited January 29, 2011 by Hanther
SunsetRed Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Actually, my best friend has a lifestyle similar to yours. Her house/yard are full of reptiles and other animals that are not the typical dog/cat variety. I've seen her put her Iguana on a leash before, so I know it can happen. Now, back to your question. You need to dump your fiance's ass now. Kick him to the curb and don't look back. Any man who is mean/inappropriate to the animals you love is being mean/inappropriate to you. It will only get worse if you marry him and don't be surprised if some mysterious "accident" happens and some of your animals die or disappear. He's probably jealous of the love and attention you give your animals, but whatever....you've already talked to him about this and he knows how imp it is to you that he respect your animals and he does not care....he needs to be kicked to the curb.
hydorclops Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Your OP makes your fiance sound pretty bad. To me the bigger question is why he isn't curious about your work. I'd think he'd want to be educated. It is pretty interesting. How can he not want to have you teach him about it?
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 Actually, my best friend has a lifestyle similar to yours. Her house/yard are full of reptiles and other animals that are not the typical dog/cat variety. I've seen her put her Iguana on a leash before, so I know it can happen. Thanks for understanding and not jumping to crazy conclusions! Now, back to your question. You need to dump your fiance's ass now. Kick him to the curb and don't look back. Any man who is mean/inappropriate to the animals you love is being mean/inappropriate to you. It will only get worse if you marry him and don't be surprised if some mysterious "accident" happens and some of your animals die or disappear. He's probably jealous of the love and attention you give your animals, but whatever....you've already talked to him about this and he knows how imp it is to you that he respect your animals and he does not care....he needs to be kicked to the curb. Thanks for the advice also! I completely see what you are saying and it really does infuriate me. I try to see it from his perspective. He was raised with only one dog at a time, so moving in with me and getting used to this lifestyle was a HUGE adjustment for him and he has gotten much better. He helps me with all the animals, he cleans up the poop, he bathes and feeds them, he tolerates the mess they make. It is a LOT to ask. So please don't think he is a terrible person. He's really not and he has come a long way. But he IS very stubborn. When the iguana went crazy like that, I'm sure it was completely unexpected for him. And when he got loose, we argued about it for a minute. I don't know if he felt bad, if he felt like it was my fault, or what. But then he left. He is now at the Natural Science Museum taking pictures of all these turtles and lizards and messaging them to me. I don't know if he's trying to cheer me up, or what. He's not as bad my post made him out to be. But what you are saying does have truth in it. I don't know...I'm really confused.
Olivia1966 Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Any man who is mean/inappropriate to the animals you love is being mean/inappropriate to you. This. He is bigger than me and he was refusing to give the animal back. What was supposed to do, hit him? Any man worth your respect should respect you enough to comply with reasonable requests without the need for physical force, screaming arguments, or anything of that nature.
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 Your OP makes your fiance sound pretty bad. To me the bigger question is why he isn't curious about your work. I'd think he'd want to be educated. It is pretty interesting. How can he not want to have you teach him about it? He is interested and he has learned a lot. My OP was true, but obviously I was only highlighting the negatives because I was really mad when I wrote it. He's learned a lot...he's learned all about the feeding, lighting, and housing requirements of the iguana (which are VERY detailed and specific). He chops food for him and makes sure his heating blanket is turned on. He's definitely not a sociopath, I promise. Like I said before, then problem arises when he treats the wild ones as if they were dogs or cats. And then when something goes wrong, he becomes very stubborn and THAT is what I don't know how to get past.
zicke Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 How did I LET him do it? He is bigger than me and he was refusing to give the animal back. What was supposed to do, hit him? He is not a sociopath. He expected the animal to behave differently than it did. When things went wrong, he picked the animal up and he did calm it down. He didn't intentionally torture it. THAT would be sociopathic. Here is the thing. He is great with domesticated animals. He loves our iguana...feeds him, bathes him, handles him constantly and it very good with him. The problem arises when he mistakenly thinks that the iguana is going to behave similarly to a dog or cat. And it just doesn't work out that way. Is this an actualy rescue or your pet??? What is your actual gripe if he is so loving and caring? If he doesn't GET that a dog and an iguana are two completely different lifeforms, well, that lies in your not teaching him that. Or, he is kinda dense. A five year old knows that these beings are different.
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 Any man worth your respect should respect you enough to comply with reasonable requests without the need for physical force, screaming arguments, or anything of that nature. EXACTLY. This is my problem. When I demanded for him to give me the iguana back after he had clearly been the one responsible for terrifying the poor thing, he just refused. It was disrespectful. And he is bigger than me and more powerful than me, if he refuses to do something, there is really nothing I can do about it. So if he won't LISTEN to me, then what do I have?
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 Is this an actualy rescue or your pet??? What is your actual gripe if he is so loving and caring? If he doesn't GET that a dog and an iguana are two completely different lifeforms, well, that lies in your not teaching him that. Or, he is kinda dense. A five year old knows that these beings are different. What is your problem? I've explained my "gripe" in several posts. Pardon me for trying to also be fair and state the good things that my fiance does. And I picked up this iguana from my local police station, after he had been released by his previous owners into the wild where he would have died. I had intended on getting him in good health and finding him a home, but he ended up become a personal pet. How is that relevant at all?
Cee Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I think you should apologize to your fiancee for getting so angry. He did nothing malicious. Most people don't know how to handle reptiles. You simply need to provide education in a patient way and he'll learn to handle them better. I think your overeducation on reptiles has blinded you to the fact that 99% of the world is just like your fiancee. When I got my first lizard as a kid, I abused the hell of the poor thing because I loved it so much. I wanted to hold my lizard and pet it like a cat. And when I got a turtle, I made so many mistakes until I did research and learned. I think you need to credit your fiancee for supporting your animal work. And I hope you treat him like the most important animal in your life.
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 I think you should apologize to your fiancee for getting so angry. He did nothing malicious. Most people don't know how to handle reptiles. You simply need to provide education in a patient way and he'll learn to handle them better. I think your overeducation on reptiles has blinded you to the fact that 99% of the world is just like your fiancee. When I got my first lizard as a kid, I abused the hell of the poor thing because I loved it so much. I wanted to hold my lizard and pet it like a cat. And when I got a turtle, I made so many mistakes until I did research and learned. I think you need to credit your fiancee for supporting your animal work. And I hope you treat him like the most important animal in your life. lol. Thanks for the post. I can't help but get angry. I don't get angry about much, but I do get angry about this sort of thing very easily. But you're right, I do owe him an apology. And I should have gone and got the iguana as soon as I knew he'd left it outside. That was my mistake. Basically, my problem doesn't lie with the fact that he wanted to put the iguana outside and walk it like a dog. That is an honest mistake. My problem lies with the fact that he did it, WHILE I was yelling at him not to. I feel like if he respected me, he would have turned around and said, "why should I not do this? What will happen?" And when something bad DID happen, he should have immediately returned the animal to me when I asked. Maybe this needed to happen though, maybe it will be better from here on out. I dunno...thanks for offering a different perspective though.
zicke Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 What is your problem? I've explained my "gripe" in several posts. Pardon me for trying to also be fair and state the good things that my fiance does. And I picked up this iguana from my local police station, after he had been released by his previous owners into the wild where he would have died. I had intended on getting him in good health and finding him a home, but he ended up become a personal pet. How is that relevant at all? My gripe is that you are backtracking your words. You explained that this Iguana in the intial post was "somewhat" tame. Yet, you let your fiance, who in your words as a history of teasingtorturing animals take him out on a leash, that the animal may never have experienced before. Now, all of the sudden the animal is really ok with him in the first place. He is mean to your Parrot, which, you should know better, birds are so easily stressed. I wouldn't let my manfriend be mean to my dog. Heck, my brother is "touched in the head" and I trust him completely with my animals. It would never cross my man or my brother's mind to be mean to my dog. Is he a bad fiance or not? People who are mean to animals are sociopaths.
Undine Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I think you should apologize to your fiancee for getting so angry. He did nothing malicious. Most people don't know how to handle reptiles. You simply need to provide education in a patient way and he'll learn to handle them better. I think your overeducation on reptiles has blinded you to the fact that 99% of the world is just like your fiancee. When I got my first lizard as a kid, I abused the hell of the poor thing because I loved it so much. I wanted to hold my lizard and pet it like a cat. And when I got a turtle, I made so many mistakes until I did research and learned. I think you need to credit your fiancee for supporting your animal work. And I hope you treat him like the most important animal in your life. You see no problem with the fact that she asked him to stop what he was doing wrong with a living animal and told him to give the animal back to her, and he refused her and ignored her?
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 My gripe is that you are backtracking your words. You explained that this Iguana in the intial post was "somewhat" tame. Yet, you let your fiance, who in your words as a history of teasingtorturing animals take him out on a leash, that the animal may never have experienced before. Now, all of the sudden the animal is really ok with him in the first place. He is mean to your Parrot, which, you should know better, birds are so easily stressed. I wouldn't let my manfriend be mean to my dog. Heck, my brother is "touched in the head" and I trust him completely with my animals. It would never cross my man or my brother's mind to be mean to my dog. Is he a bad fiance or not? People who are mean to animals are sociopaths. I'm not backtracking at all, I'm being completely honest. The iguana is not aggressive at all, but he will occasionally try to run if he doesn't want to be held. Which is why we can't let him walk around on a leash - he may try to run and then could hurt himself. Otherwise, when indoors, the iguana is very tame and is IS fine with my fiance. He'll sit on our shoulder, in our laps, eat of our hands, etc. I'm not back-tracking at all here, just painting a fuller picture. Obviously, if there were only bad things happening here, I would have left him a long time ago. Also, I did not LET him do anything, as I have already pointed out. I'm not standing there in silence while he does these things. I am pissed and trying to stop him and make him understand. You have been nothing but unhelpful this entire thread. First calling me a troll, which was obviously untrue. Then berating me for allowing an iguana to go on a leash, which was completely unwarranted as was pointed out by myself and another poster. Then you seem annoyed when I try to be fair and point out the good things my fiance does. And now you move on to claiming that I am back-tracking! You seem to be a very unreliable source of advice. Others have offered very helpful advice and I truly appreciate it.
Cee Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Sounds like your fiancee was being a "guy" and thinking he knew how to do something and then messing it up. Hopefully you can have a good talk and then have a laugh. Since everything ended up ok, it's pretty funny if you think about it.
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 You see no problem with the fact that she asked him to stop what he was doing wrong with a living animal and told him to give the animal back to her, and he refused her and ignored her? And that is exactly why I came here at all. This is the main source of my "gripe" to use zicke's word. I am a 5'3 tiny girl...if he wants to do something, I can't stop him. So when he doesn't listen to me, I feel completely powerless.
Author Hanther Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 Sounds like your fiancee was being a "guy" and thinking he knew how to do something and then messing it up. Hopefully you can have a good talk and then have a laugh. Since everything ended up ok, it's pretty funny if you think about it. Yeah...I guess reptiles are supposed to be more of a "guy" thing anyway. I still feel really powerless in the situation though. He HAS to listen to me. In this area, at least!! I think he is back from the museum now. I guess we will talk about this tonight.
johan Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Is this an actualy rescue or your pet??? What is your actual gripe if he is so loving and caring? If he doesn't GET that a dog and an iguana are two completely different lifeforms, well, that lies in your not teaching him that. Or, he is kinda dense. A five year old knows that these beings are different. You seem to be having your own personal reaction to this thread. Your responses aren't all that helpful to the original poster. I have no advice to offer. But I do understand. There are a lot of people who just can't feel any empathy for animals. Part of having empathy is understanding that each kind of animal his its own way of operating in the world, and if you aren't able to observe it and try to understand it, then you won't get along with it very well. You should have the humility to try to follow its rules, whenever possible. The one thing they all seem to have in common is that they figure out whether they can trust you. Showing them respect and gaining their trust is pretty rewarding. Manhandling them isn't a good way of doing that. Even picking them up and carrying them is really just an invasion of their space as far as they are concerned.
johan Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Yeah...I guess reptiles are supposed to be more of a "guy" thing anyway. I still feel really powerless in the situation though. He HAS to listen to me. In this area, at least!! I think he is back from the museum now. I guess we will talk about this tonight. I don't recommend you beat him over the head with your expertise. And if you're having control issues, that's not his problem.
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