Trimmer Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 You can become so numb to a crappy relationship you don't know that it is crappy until someone else shows you different. So divorce when you really don't know your relationship sucks because you are just numb to it? Yeah that makes sense. No, sorry, but you're twisting the point here. Finding yourself numb in your relationship and cheating are two different things, and you cannot equate the statements "If you are going to mekt he choice to cheat, you might as well divorce" (with which I agree) and "If you find yourself numb in your relationship, you might as well divorce" (with which I do not agree.) The point is, at the moment that "someone else shows you different", you aren't just wandering, "numb", into an extramarital relationship. You make the choice whether to move forward or not. So the point isn't "you should divorce when you are numb and don't even know it", but rather, when you have the choice to make and you know you are discarding your marriage to cheat, that is the point where you should choose to divorce. ....OR.... alternately, honor your marriage at least enough that if you don't have the nuts to leave your marriage yourself, give your spouse full information so he/she can have the opportunity to make an informed choice.
bentnotbroken Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 No, sorry, but you're twisting the point here. Finding yourself numb in your relationship and cheating are two different things, and you cannot equate the statements "If you are going to mekt he choice to cheat, you might as well divorce" (with which I agree) and "If you find yourself numb in your relationship, you might as well divorce" (with which I do not agree.) The point is, at the moment that "someone else shows you different", you aren't just wandering, "numb", into an extramarital relationship. You make the choice whether to move forward or not. So the point isn't "you should divorce when you are numb and don't even know it", but rather, when you have the choice to make and you know you are discarding your marriage to cheat, that is the point where you should choose to divorce. ....OR.... alternately, honor your marriage at least enough that if you don't have the nuts to leave your marriage yourself, give your spouse full information so he/she can have the opportunity to make an informed choice. Right on the money.
pkn06002 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 So the point isn't "you should divorce when you are numb and don't even know it", but rather, when you have the choice to make and you know you are discarding your marriage to cheat, that is the point where you should choose to divorce. ....OR.... alternately, honor your marriage at least enough that if you don't have the nuts to leave your marriage yourself, give your spouse full information so he/she can have the opportunity to make an informed choice. I get what your saying here but then your back to the other reasons I posted.
greengoddess Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I get what your saying here but then your back to the other reasons I posted. Your other reasons are just an excuse. You will see your kids plenty and you will get more quality time with them when it is one on one time with you and your kids. You are unhappy. Your wife is unhappy since you are emotionally unavailable. Show your kids what happy people look like and get honest with yourself and your wife.
kuma Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Finding yourself numb in your relationship and cheating are two different things, and you cannot equate the statements "If you are going to mekt he choice to cheat, you might as well divorce" (with which I agree) and "If you find yourself numb in your relationship, you might as well divorce" (with which I do not agree.) The point is, at the moment that "someone else shows you different", you aren't just wandering, "numb", into an extramarital relationship. You make the choice whether to move forward or not. So the point isn't "you should divorce when you are numb and don't even know it", but rather, when you have the choice to make and you know you are discarding your marriage to cheat, that is the point where you should choose to divorce. ....OR.... alternately, honor your marriage at least enough that if you don't have the nuts to leave your marriage yourself, give your spouse full information so he/she can have the opportunity to make an informed choice. I totally agree. If he really wants to get out of his crappy marriage, he can do something different to change his life. If he's worried about money, he can look into getting a 2nd job. And his kids will be happier if they don't have to see their parent's crappy marriage every day.
greengoddess Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Interesting, and this is so the truth, even exDM with his kids grown feared loosing his kids (he had lost them anyway) due to the influence his ex had throughout their growing years. While he was working (sometimes 96 hrs per week, no exaggeration BTW) his W stayed home and tended to the kids. I think she met their physical needs, although emotionally it was a tug-of-war with the kids being the "rope"...of course he lost because he was feeding four kids and a W that loved to spend money. In bold, this concept has confounded me also. It's not what I saw either. Excellent views PKN:) LOL he worked 96 hours a week and you are blaming the wife he was losing his kids. If he worked that much he didn't even have time to know his kids. His kids probably felt abondoned. Also, how much of those "working hours" were spent having an affair instead of being home with his kids?
pkn06002 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) I totally agree. If he really wants to get out of his crappy marriage, he can do something different to change his life. If he's worried about money, he can look into getting a 2nd job. And his kids will be happier if they don't have to see their parent's crappy marriage every day. Even better! Don't like your marriage and worried about finances if you divorce work more! LOL!!!! Yep then while you are working that second job you don't get to see your kids. Where is the upside in this? Edited February 2, 2011 by pkn06002
kuma Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Even better! Don't like your marriage and worried about finances if you divorce work more! LOL!!!! Yep then while you are working that second job you don't get to see your kids. I'm sure you'll have free time. You can't possibly work 24 hrs/7 days a week. You made time for your AP when you were having an affair. I think you can make time for your kids. Where is the upside in this? Maybe you'll stop feeling numb and start living. Children watch their parents. They deserve happy parents and most importantly you deserve to be happy.
pkn06002 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I'm sure you'll have free time. You can't possibly work 24 hrs/7 days a week. You made time for your AP when you were having an affair. I think you can make time for your kids. You mean my kids are at work? That is where my AP was so time was easy to carve out. Maybe you'll stop feeling numb and start living. Children watch their parents. They deserve happy parents and most importantly you deserve to be happy. Now at least on possible upside. I always do find it interesting how people want to change a general discussion into a specific one about a particular poster. Seems lots of people don't like the factual real reasons that people use to participate in affairs instead of divorcing. Is that just to hard of a discussion to stay on topic? The details and logic are just to mess and go past the simple coward, lier blah blah blah notions always thrown out? Or is it just a harder conversation when not talking to the choir and actually getting feedback from someone that made that choice?
Owl Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I always do find it interesting how people want to change a general discussion into a specific one about a particular poster. That's because it's a lot easier to discuss specifics than useless generalizations. It's easier to focus on helping one person look at one problem than try to carry on a vague conversation about non-specifics. Not to mention people tend to want to try to "fix" a problem they see right there in front of them, rather than to try to discuss something esoteric that probably won't actually make a difference in the long run. Seems lots of people don't like the factual real reasons that people use to participate in affairs instead of divorcing. Is that just to hard of a discussion to stay on topic? The details and logic are just to mess and go past the simple coward, lier blah blah blah notions always thrown out? Or is it just a harder conversation when not talking to the choir and actually getting feedback from someone that made that choice? Well, there are "factual reasons", and then there are rationalizations. Which it might be in a specific instance is probably best determined by what role you're actually playing in the situation. And don't take me wrong...I get that divorce isn't ever easy. From what I've seen, I think the reason that people cheat and don't divorce is pretty straightforward. Most of the time, they think they can get away with it...right up until they're caught. They don't think in terms of 'fixing a problem'...they simply think in terms of how their actions make them feel good at the time. Getting a divorce means changes, costs a lot of money. Having an affair (under the assumption of not getting caught) is entirely clandestine, resulting only in the changes you want (until you do get caught). In that light...what's surprising about people taking the easy way out?
Spark1111 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 You mean my kids are at work? That is where my AP was so time was easy to carve out. Now at least on possible upside. I always do find it interesting how people want to change a general discussion into a specific one about a particular poster. Seems lots of people don't like the factual real reasons that people use to participate in affairs instead of divorcing. Is that just to hard of a discussion to stay on topic? The details and logic are just to mess and go past the simple coward, lier blah blah blah notions always thrown out? Or is it just a harder conversation when not talking to the choir and actually getting feedback from someone that made that choice? Ok. I understand the choices that you made and why you made them. I tell everyone that, hey, if you are happy, I am happy. But I do not think you are happy with the choices that you made. Just my opinion. And I do understand that, truly I do. If my fWH had not made signifigant changes in the way he treated me, I would not be here --not for money or kids or home. I would live in a hovel rather then to be enslaved to an abusive or uncaring or totally self-centered spouse. My kids would still love me no matter what choice I made. They would you too! His behavior pre-affair, and during his affair, is enough emotional abuse to last me a life time. So, I get the factual reasons to stay. But no, that would not be any sort of life to live, IMHO.
Trimmer Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Seems lots of people don't like the factual real reasons that people use to participate in affairs instead of divorcing. Is that just to hard of a discussion to stay on topic? The details and logic are just to mess and go past the simple coward, lier blah blah blah notions always thrown out? Or is it just a harder conversation when not talking to the choir and actually getting feedback from someone that made that choice? Fair point, and at least you are one of the few MM (do I have that right?) who have the nards to get on here and give your unvarnished opinion. But yes, I have to say that just sticking to the "factual real reasons" isn't really very easy to do in a conversation like this, because while those reasons may well answer - in an objective, mechanical way - "Why does a spouse do this?" ( see, trying not to make this about you, specifically... ), they don't answer the implicit question which addresses a more basic human, emotional need, which is "What kind of person can do this?" So I acknowledge that your reasons exist and are valid - and even make sense - from a sterile, process point of view: why discard a comfortable situation before making a huge change, etc. And indeed, maybe that's a part of the answer to the OP's question: some people just don't (or choose not to) feel or think it through beyond that. But to address the human point of view, the discussion has to go beyond just the process reasons. What people are really trying to do is to answer the "what kind of person..." question, because I don't want to be that kind of person, and I don't want to have a partner who is that kind of person. Edited February 2, 2011 by Trimmer
pkn06002 Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Fair point, and at least you are one of the few MM (do I have that right?) who have the nards to get on here and give your unvarnished opinion. But yes, I have to say that just sticking to the "factual real reasons" isn't really very easy to do in a conversation like this, because while those reasons may well answer - in an objective, mechanical way - "Why does a spouse do this?" ( see, trying not to make this about you, specifically... ), they don't answer the implicit question which addresses a more basic human, emotional need, which is "What kind of person can do this?" So I acknowledge that your reasons exist and are valid - and even make sense - from a sterile, process point of view: why discard a comfortable situation before making a huge change, etc. And indeed, maybe that's a part of the answer to the OP's question: some people just don't (or choose not to) feel or think it through beyond that. But to address the human point of view, the discussion has to go beyond just the process reasons. What people are really trying to do is to answer the "what kind of person..." question, because I don't want to be that kind of person, and I don't want to have a partner who is that kind of person. Yes a MM You make a point and there is a particular reason why I don't get dragged into the human point of view on topics like this, I used to. The "discussion" then gets dragged down into me defending myself and a piling on of BS's that vent their frustrations. All crap I don't feel I need to participate in anymore. Frankly one point of view (mine) does not give you the "what kind of person" I am only a sample of one; which is far from a representative view across the board. But general ideas like basic motivations are a easy to represent as an individual.
Mimolicious Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Instant gratification. People don't think, some press their luck. They follow a feeling that makes them all warm & fuzzy now and dont see the years of drama that their doings will bring. My xH acted as if it was a surprise that we were D'ing. He seriously thought it was never coming, even when he decided to lead his life with someone else. Where they do that at? I even got the "I really thought you and I would go grow grey and old together. You are and will always be my baby". Riiiiight, what about your OW? Even though this may be the way he truly felt, his actions led him in a different path. So long! Oh well!
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