Is pain inevitable?

[Spark1111]

Perhaps I just have a thicker skin, but I don't class any of that as pain. "Mild disappointment" is just that to me - mild disappointment, not pain. And if someone makes a harsh remark under stress, I don't take it personally. I acknowledge where it is coming from, and leave it there, rather than taking it onto myself.

 

My H did go through stress in the run up to, and during the initial stages of, his split with his xW, because of his concerns for the kids, and because of other traumas he was experiencing in other aspects of his life at that stage. And yes, I empathised with that pain - and experienced some too, related to the other traumas unrelated to the A. But the A itself - brought me no pain.

 

Ahhh, but you seem to really love this man.

 

Imagine he has an affair with someone while married to you....or, perhaps worse, his xW and he start to hook up.

 

Can you imagine that pain? I think you are, as we all do, viewing it from your perspective as a fOW very happy in the affair, fell in love and married the man.

 

So I understand your point of no pain, because you really did not experience any.

 

But if that man cheated on you without your knowledge? Yes, I think you would be able to identify.

 

Your position was your position, then.

 

Would it be your postion now, if your H cheated on you with someone else?

[Spark1111]

I wonder if it is not just that any affair is the result of three people already hurting .....

 

- the BS is hurting because they are sharing their life with someone who, ultimately, does not believe that their human life (ie the BS's) is valuable enough to deserve honesty or respect.

 

- the WS is hurting because they are sharing their life with someone (their spouse) whom they do not, ultimately, believe is valuable enough as a human being to deserve honesty or respect.

 

- the AP is hurting because are in denial that their own actions are complicit in deceiving and disrespecting another human being ... compartmentalising all the "blame" for the disrespct onto the BS may be a good inner "self protection" but it doesn't exonerate the behaviour.

 

Thinking down this line a little more, perhaps one can argue that the A, in some cases, does in fact simply surface the existing hurt/pain and force everyone to deal with their own hurt/pain.

 

In other cases, of course, acknowledging inner pain (from whatever position of the triangle one is in) can be too painful and so it gets buried again.

 

So, I think I would disagree that A's cause pain .. I think the pain is allready there (in all parties) ... indeed, without the initial pain then there really would be no reason for the A.

 

Just my thoughts ... as I said, good question

 

be safe

Chris

 

I think this is a great post too!

 

While some may view affairs as recreational, and others are okay with their roles in them, what I read here is the vast majority do suffer.

 

And I believe there is pre-affair pain that prompts the actions that follow.

[fooled once]

this is ridiculous.

 

Children ruled out? I supported (and encouraged, not that he needed much) my sweetheart to give well over the standard (and high, at his income) amount of child support. His kids and wife are getting half of his take home, to his lawyer's protest, on top of the large settlement and paid off house, to make sure his kids have everything they need. I think this is right; his kids are used to a certain standard, even if the law says less than half of that.

 

His kids are always welcome here, and I insisted in house shopping we have a house that makes sure they have their own rooms so they know they can always be here and are never being squeezed in. I talk to my soon to be step kids frequently and we get along quite well. Hell, I talk to former BW too, mainly as a matter of making sure the kids have as smooth a process as possible.

 

What bad soap opera were you watching for your information?

 

Actually, I agree with Desert. I have seen it happen first hand. Just because you haven't doesn't mean it doensn't happen. I have seen and known several step parents. One specifically who basically threw down that it was her or his kids from his marriage. And guess what he picked? He picked her. They went on to have 2 kids and he hasn't had contact with his daughter in 15 years - who is now married with 2 kids.

 

It happens. Some women are very insecure. They hate the children from the first wife. They want nothing to do with them and then 'encourage' the father to see them less and less. I have read horror stories of what some women have done to the kids from the first marriage and it is horrifying.

 

While that's great that you are building a relationship with your boyfriends kids, not all women do this. Many have no desire to have a relationship. And many step kids have no desire to have another "mom" bossing them around.

 

As much as I love my step kids, I admit that there were very many hard times with them - especially my step daughter. My H and I fought so much due to vastly different parenting styles and him being a disney dad. Now that the kids are all grown and gone, we both look back and see things we wish we had done differently. My relationship today with my stepdaughter is fantastic; as is my H's relationship with my son from my first marriage.

[seren]

Before the A, both H and I were unhappy with the way our realtionship was headed. TBH, I tried to understand what had gone wrong, tried to get H to talk, but it wasn't happening. I was confused, hurt, frustrated, but not in pain.

 

During H's A, the disrespect he showed me was confusing, hurt like hell and any attempts to discuss why were met with a, nothing is wrong, I love you etc etc. Frankly, I thought I was losing my mind, but not in pain.

 

D Day, I get to understand all the answers to the previous questions. The why our relationship had floundered, the why the disrespect during the A and the pain was simply the worse I have ever known, and I have known some pretty ****ty times, but D Day was terrible. I cannot put into words how shocked I was, it hit me like a train crash.

 

H totally broke down, the realisation of what he had done and the hurt to me and us caused and still causes him pain and remorse. TBH, I see his pain still and it is such a very different pain to mine. yes he betrayed me and my trust, but he also betrayed himself and his values. I wish it wasn't so, but it is what it is.

 

The OW was in pain, she loved my H, thought that when he told her our marriage was struggling meant that he would leave and they would be together. This wasn't said, discussed or implied. There was no talk of love and their A wasn't based on love, but OW thought it had a chance. I am not imagining or surmising this. OW graciously told me this herself, as I have written previously, on her H finding out some time later, she was physically attacked and came to me for support to find a refuge for her and her sons. It struck me then, as it still does now, that the A had blown up all our lives, had changed and altered all of us. We all experienced pain, my son experienced pain as he heard about the A, his view of his Dad changed, which hurt all of us.

 

Even had I not known about the A, H's actions during that time hurt, the truth would have lessened the pain as I would have had choice. had I agreed to have an open marriage then we would all have been singing from the same hymn sheet. I might not have spent so much time investing in my career so H could retire early as I was the main breadwinner, I did it for us - knowing that the time I spent in work enabled them to meet for a couple of hours, quite frankly enraged me. I felt a fool, duped, which made me feel physical pain too.

 

A's are painful, if a person in an A is just in it for the kicks, I suppose they will feel no remorse or pain, but if they have expectations which aren't fulfilled, then I would imagine pain is one of the emotions they have to deal with. Oh for honesty, truth and choice. Frankly, had H come home and said at the beginning what he wanted to do, I would've said go for it, sold up and buggered off to the Med for a long while, then spent the rest of my life missing him. Where there is love that is taken for granted, there is always pain, IMO.

[carrie999]

Just going with your title. Yes pain is inevitable when you involve yourself as the 3rd person in a two person relationship.

 

You may think the men you were playings with wives did not get hurt but they did. Just not that you saw. While they were out playing with you using family, children household time and money on you the wife was picking up all the slack. She was probably continually asking her husband what was wrong as he probably lied and said work issues. He was probably moody and guilty and pulling away more and more from his family. Just because you didn't hear about the pain do not assume that you had no negative impact and his wife and children. You did.

 

While I'm not disagreeing that this happens, you're making a very broad generalization. In some cases, the WS is more attentive to his/her spouse (I'm thinking specifically of my friend and her ex-H) during the affair, but that extra time together highlighted what was wrong in their M- they had grown apart and neither had been willing to admit it. They divorced without anyone ever knowing about the A, and she only recently openly started dating her fOM. Her ex-H is already engaged again...and he wasn't having an affair that anyone knew about.

 

It's only one example, and many are more complicated, but in cases like this one, where there were no kids and the marriage was just not working, would he be better off knowing about her adultery? And if he was already seeing his current fiancee before the divorce, would she be better off knowing? Maybe...I don't know.

 

I think that if the affair is the thing that breaks up the relationship and causes the alienation, it seems fair that the BS should be fully aware of it. But I'm not completely sure that full disclosure is less harmful otherwise.

[hoping4happyevrafter]

I don't believe that there is EVER a catch-all that truly does catch ALL. So, no, I do not believe that it is inevitable that all 3 experience pain.

 

1. If a BS is never aware of being a BS, they most likely do not experience pain.

 

2. If the WS is a serial cheater, they most likely do not experience pain.

 

3. If the OW/OM is not deeply emotionally involved in the affair, they will probably not experience pain.

 

4. If the MM/MW quickly leaves the marriage for the OW/OM and pursues that relationship as the primary, the OW/OM will probably experience little if any pain, the MM/MW will probably experience some pain, as change often does create some measure of pain, and the BS probably will (but not assuredly, as he/she could be not heavily invested in the marriage him/herself).

 

5. etc. etc...

 

like I said, no catch all. Are the odds high that all 3 will experience pain? Yeah, the odds are high. But there is no inevitability.

 

Wow your number four really catches all for me.... I mean i don't want to belittle anyone's pain but, the pain i felt for a year and a half ISH is truly insignificant to the happiness i feel now. My MM feels pain because his younger child is still in the home they had- however he sees both of his sons often and they're close. The BS is sincerely angry with ME i'm sure, but she didn't find out until after the marriage had ended, and started seeing someone else quite quickly- and both her and the MM told me how much they didn't like eachother way too often. I'm glad someone kinda pegged it- FOR ME.

[hoping4happyevrafter]

Other than the BS suddenly finds themselves handed a D with no understanding of what went wrong...and therefore end up deeply hurt/devestated by something they didn't see coming.

 

Sorry Ax...don't buy that scenario as "painless".

 

Sorry I know I just posted but I continued reading the thread....and I must say...

 

Wouldn't you say that when a D comes, everyone is kind of assuming things are going in a bad direction?

 

Even if one party doesn't think its coming to that- isn't everyone at least aware something is wrong?

 

I can't imagine being involved with someone, married or not, and being divorced/dumped whatever, and not have seen any signs, and not having any idea WHY.

 

If a marriage is over, its over. period. whether theres an OW or not. Whether its been over for fifteen years or one, or for that matter one month. If you are that in tune with your partner, you could sense it.

 

Owl i've seen you post many insightful things and i by no means mean to argue with you, i just simply disagree. I myself have never been surprised by a breakup, and that's just DATING, not the big M word.

 

If you can be surprised by a D/Breakup then IMHO there was not much to begin with.

 

Having said that, being surprised by an A is completely different. Yes that OF COURSE will hurt, but if the A is not known, just the D, I can't imagine being surprised.

 

again, just IMO.

[woinlove]

Before the A, both H and I were unhappy with the way our realtionship was headed. TBH, I tried to understand what had gone wrong, tried to get H to talk, but it wasn't happening. I was confused, hurt, frustrated, but not in pain.

 

During H's A, the disrespect he showed me was confusing, hurt like hell and any attempts to discuss why were met with a, nothing is wrong, I love you etc etc. Frankly, I thought I was losing my mind, but not in pain.

 

D Day, I get to understand all the answers to the previous questions. The why our relationship had floundered, the why the disrespect during the A and the pain was simply the worse I have ever known, and I have known some pretty ****ty times, but D Day was terrible. I cannot put into words how shocked I was, it hit me like a train crash.

 

H totally broke down, the realisation of what he had done and the hurt to me and us caused and still causes him pain and remorse. TBH, I see his pain still and it is such a very different pain to mine. yes he betrayed me and my trust, but he also betrayed himself and his values. I wish it wasn't so, but it is what it is.

 

The OW was in pain, she loved my H, thought that when he told her our marriage was struggling meant that he would leave and they would be together. This wasn't said, discussed or implied. There was no talk of love and their A wasn't based on love, but OW thought it had a chance. I am not imagining or surmising this. OW graciously told me this herself, as I have written previously, on her H finding out some time later, she was physically attacked and came to me for support to find a refuge for her and her sons. It struck me then, as it still does now, that the A had blown up all our lives, had changed and altered all of us. We all experienced pain, my son experienced pain as he heard about the A, his view of his Dad changed, which hurt all of us.

 

Even had I not known about the A, H's actions during that time hurt, the truth would have lessened the pain as I would have had choice. had I agreed to have an open marriage then we would all have been singing from the same hymn sheet. I might not have spent so much time investing in my career so H could retire early as I was the main breadwinner, I did it for us - knowing that the time I spent in work enabled them to meet for a couple of hours, quite frankly enraged me. I felt a fool, duped, which made me feel physical pain too.

 

A's are painful, if a person in an A is just in it for the kicks, I suppose they will feel no remorse or pain, but if they have expectations which aren't fulfilled, then I would imagine pain is one of the emotions they have to deal with. Oh for honesty, truth and choice. Frankly, had H come home and said at the beginning what he wanted to do, I would've said go for it, sold up and buggered off to the Med for a long while, then spent the rest of my life missing him. Where there is love that is taken for granted, there is always pain, IMO.

 

Seren, you write with such insight and compassion about how the affair affected all the different people. It is particularly an eye-opener to read your first hand account of how a BS can be affected by an affair without even knowing what is going on.

 

I notice on this thread it is only people who have chosen to have secret affairs, who seem to think in their own case, or in some other case they "know" about, that there was no pain. And some even argue that the affair made things better for the BS! I think when one fully accepts the role you have played and have forgiven yourself, you can more clearly see how others are affected. Maybe reading first hand accounts, like Seren's and others, will help some get to that stage.

Edited January 29, 2011 by woinlove

[OWoman]

Ahhh, but you seem to really love this man.

 

Imagine he has an affair with someone while married to you....or, perhaps worse, his xW and he start to hook up.

 

Can you imagine that pain? I think you are, as we all do, viewing it from your perspective as a fOW very happy in the affair, fell in love and married the man.

 

So I understand your point of no pain, because you really did not experience any.

 

But if that man cheated on you without your knowledge? Yes, I think you would be able to identify.

 

Your position was your position, then.

 

Would it be your postion now, if your H cheated on you with someone else?

 

Spark, I'd be guessing if I answered that question, as I genuinely don't know how I'd feel. I may well feel pain - but I don't believe pain is obligatory for ALL parties, every single time. If my H did have an A, would the OW feel pain? Who knows, I guess it would depend on many things - the nature of their R, the outcome of the A, her own expectations and her own personality, for a start. Would he feel pain? I guess that would also depend on many things, including the outcome of the A and the nature of their R, but knowing him I would guess that if he still loved me at that time, whatever his R with her, he would feel pain.

[lovingwhatis]

Owoman, your thread hit a nerve with me.. I've been researching pain and the relationship to emotions and vice versa.

 

Yes, it is correct to say that you are more thick skinned than me, and maybe a lot of people.

 

What you described regarding your H's pain and you empathizing with him in my view would mean that you experienced pain as a result of the empathy. You don't consider it as a result of the A but that sounds implausible. Like silverplanets said, I feel that As bring out the pain that is there, but to separate them at that point is pure semantics. Viewed in vacuum, yes the A is just pleasure. Too bad we don't live in vacuum.

 

Emotional pain when repressed comes up as physical pain, as all kinds of displaced emotions. From the rage on the expressway, to the kicking of the dog, to the resentment towards a random person, it is all interrelated, we are just not aware of it on a conscious level.

 

Having a number of friends that are positivity experts, I can tell you that looking at the positive aspects Only ultimately is denial of the whole of experience. US culture revels in that, and ultimately the shadow shows up in so many "unrelated" ways.

 

And I also wanted to share that a man I dated had cheated without me knowing. On a particular night I couldn't stop crying and couldn't figure out why I was so upset. Only a year later by serendipitous way I found out through another person what had happened that night. We humans are way more connected than we imagined..

[desertIslandCactus]

Sorry I know I just posted but I continued reading the thread....and I must say...

 

Wouldn't you say that when a D comes, everyone is kind of assuming things are going in a bad direction?

 

Even if one party doesn't think its coming to that- isn't everyone at least aware something is wrong?

 

I can't imagine being involved with someone, married or not, and being divorced/dumped whatever, and not have seen any signs, and not having any idea WHY.

 

In a 23 yr M, love and trust go a long way. H begins to act preoccupied. You ask why, he says: it's the business. You believe him.

 

They say the W is the last to know - it's probably having to do with trust.

 

If a marriage is over, its over. period. whether theres an OW or not.

 

Spoken like an outsider (with something to gain), and self appointed judge of someone else's M. Convenient rationalism.

 

Whether its been over for fifteen years or one, or for that matter one month. If you are that in tune with your partner, you could sense it.

 

If an outsider and and/or a MP are lucky enough to call someone elses M 'over', I guess that would make them - lucky enough.

 

I myself have never been surprised by a breakup, and that's just DATING, not the big M word

.

 

Big diff between 'dating' and someone's Marriage.

 

If you can be surprised by a D/Breakup then IMHO there was not much to begin with.

 

How does an outsider understand the substance in others' closed marriage.

 

Having said that, being surprised by an A is completely different. Yes that OF COURSE will hurt, but if the A is not known, just the D, I can't imagine being surprised.

 

again, just IMO

.

 

Whether imagining being 'surprised' or not - how does this rationalize D.

 

 

..........................

Edited January 29, 2011 by desertIslandCactus

[OWoman]

What you described regarding your H's pain and you empathizing with him in my view would mean that you experienced pain as a result of the empathy. You don't consider it as a result of the A but that sounds implausible.

 

I was referring to other things that were happening around the same time. My H had become estranged from his family because they hated his xW. During the A, he started to reconnect with them, and introduced me to them (as his partner). I became very close to several of them, including his father. Soon after he left his xW, his father was given a very short time to live. His father's death affected him very hard, and also affected me, as we'd grown to love each other and his biggest wish was to live long enough to see us M.

 

So yes, there was pain - but it was related to the loss of his father, not to the A.

[OWoman]

I notice on this thread it is only people who have chosen to have secret affairs, who seem to think in their own case, or in some other case they "know" about, that there was no pain. And some even argue that the affair made things better for the BS! I think when one fully accepts the role you have played and have forgiven yourself, you can more clearly see how others are affected. Maybe reading first hand accounts, like Seren's and others, will help some get to that stage.

 

I've not seen anyone on this thread claim that there was "no pain". Some have argued that pain FOR EVERYONE is not inevitable - based either on their own experiences, or on logic.

 

I've no seen anyone suggesting that no one ever feels pain, so I doubt anyone needs the kind of help you're so kindly suggesting.

[jj33]

I notice on this thread it is only people who have chosen to have secret affairs, who seem to think in their own case, or in some other case they "know" about, that there was no pain. And some even argue that the affair made things better for the BS! I think when one fully accepts the role you have played and have forgiven yourself, you can more clearly see how others are affected. Maybe reading first hand accounts, like Seren's and others, will help some get to that stage.

 

Woinlove Ive been in secret affairs where noone was hurt and open affairs where only MM and I were hurt.

 

I can tell you for sure that in all cases the BS was not hurt. Particularly in the open affair. She was happy and yes I spoke to her and yes I met her on more than one occasion and have seen her relatively recently (but the affair has been over for years).

 

So perhaps we can ALL learn from reading about each others' experiences and see that not all BSs are alike, not all APs are alike, not all WS are alike and not all affairs are alike.

 

You cant generalize. Im Jewish and certain people are surprised that I eat shrimp. Cant generalize.

 

Yes often people are hurt in affairs. But that wasnt the question. The question was is pain inevitable. In other words must there be pain in all affairs. And the answer to that is no IMO.

[OWoman]

Yes often people are hurt in affairs. But that wasnt the question. The question was is pain inevitable. In other words must there be pain in all affairs. And the answer to that is no IMO.

 

Actually, the question was even more specific - is pain inevitable FOR EVERYONE in the A. In other words, is it inevitable that in every affair, every person gets hurt?

 

Hmm, perhaps we should offer reading comprehension classes on LS...?

[anne1707]

Hmm, perhaps we should offer reading comprehension classes on LS...?

 

Well it's obvious that not all need condescension classes

[OWoman]

Well it's obvious that not all need condescension classes

 

Nope - there's been plenty about, including hoping some posters can learn from the pain of others expressed here.

[seren]

Well, I can only tell it as it is from my experience of the A and in my experience, me, my H and the OW, all of us experienced pain. Possibly in some A's not all are hurt, but I am sure that at least one person is, whether that is the WS, BS, AP children, family whomever is affected.

 

Of course not all A's are the same, that would be a complete generalisation, same as calling all BS bitter, all OW/OM trash or all MM/MW cake eaters. My view is that no one can make a generalisation based upon their experience only, however, if just one person in the A believes what is being told them by someone they love, only to find they are lied to, it hurts and causes pain. But that's my experience and viewpoint. Where there is love that is taken for granted, there is always pain, IMO.

Edited January 30, 2011 by seren
typo

[pureinheart]

I notice on this thread it is only people who have chosen to have secret affairs, who seem to think in their own case, or in some other case they "know" about, that there was no pain. And some even argue that the affair made things better for the BS! I think when one fully accepts the role you have played and have forgiven yourself, you can more clearly see how others are affected. Maybe reading first hand accounts, like Seren's and others, will help some get to that stage.

 

Mine wasn't all that "secret", exDM most likely threw me in her face from day one. I'm priddy sure people know what's going on in their own situation, at least most of them do.

 

I have heard BS's say that the A did make things better in the longrun.

 

Wow, this is about as one-sided as it gets. Every situation is different, yes there are certain things that are simular, but every case stands on its own merit.

[SidLyon]

...inevitable in an A that ALL THREE people will get hurt.

 

...Even if one accepts the premise that the A must necessarily hurt the BS - whether or not they know about it (and this is very contested; I know some BSs on infidelity claim they would rather not know and be happy in their ignorance) - do you think it is necessary that the OW / OM must experience hurt as a result of the A? And the MP?

 

...

 

Going back to the original post and with the benefit of reading many responses.

 

No it seems it is not inevitable that all 3 (or more for that matter) people will get hurt.

 

In my own situation many people were hurt though, and I believe it was inevitable from the start of my H's affair that many people would be hurt.

 

As it turns out far more than could have been predicted. Some people who were hurt include:

 

- Me (the BW) and our children.

- My H, his parents and sibling because our d-day was a few days after the death of my brother in law. The news of his A therefore hit much harder than otherwise as we were already in turmoil because of the death.

- The OW's younger child who was born during the affair - about 8.5 months after it started (figure that one out).

- The OW's husband who died at a young age about 6 years after the A started (only a few weeks before the death of my BIL).

- The BW and 4 children, of the other MM that the OW was having an A with at the time of her H's death (at the same time as with my H). Our d-days were about 3 weeks apart.

- The older child and parents of the dead BH who found out from me about the A with my H, while already knowing of the A with the other MM.

- Maybe even the OW who lost her H and then actively pursued 2 MM, starting a few days after the funeral.

 

Catastrophe descended on all families and because of the timing, the deaths, the affairs and the d-days will always be inextricably linked in the minds of most of these people.

 

So no, not inevitable but certainly reasonably foreseeable in many/most cases.

Edited January 30, 2011 by SidLyon

[pureinheart]

Owoman, your thread hit a nerve with me.. I've been researching pain and the relationship to emotions and vice versa.

 

Yes, it is correct to say that you are more thick skinned than me, and maybe a lot of people.

 

What you described regarding your H's pain and you empathizing with him in my view would mean that you experienced pain as a result of the empathy. You don't consider it as a result of the A but that sounds implausible. Like silverplanets said, I feel that As bring out the pain that is there, but to separate them at that point is pure semantics. Viewed in vacuum, yes the A is just pleasure. Too bad we don't live in vacuum.

 

Emotional pain when repressed comes up as physical pain, as all kinds of displaced emotions. From the rage on the expressway, to the kicking of the dog, to the resentment towards a random person, it is all interrelated, we are just not aware of it on a conscious level.

 

Having a number of friends that are positivity experts, I can tell you that looking at the positive aspects Only ultimately is denial of the whole of experience. US culture revels in that, and ultimately the shadow shows up in so many "unrelated" ways.

 

And I also wanted to share that a man I dated had cheated without me knowing. On a particular night I couldn't stop crying and couldn't figure out why I was so upset. Only a year later by serendipitous way I found out through another person what had happened that night. We humans are way more connected than we imagined..

 

I must disagree with you concerning this aspect (bold). One can look at all aspects reasonably and remain positive...and actually this is the best way to go...unfortunately many like to remain in the drama.

[NoIDidn't]

I must disagree with you concerning this aspect (bold). One can look at all aspects reasonably and remain positive...and actually this is the best way to go...unfortunately many like to remain in the drama.

 

But loving didn't say what you said. Loving said "looking at the positive aspects only" was the "ultimate denial" NOT "looking at all aspects and remaining positive".

 

One can look at the negative and remain positive. But one can not equate looking at all aspects with looking at only the positive aspects.

 

You might change your disagreement when considering what was actually posted.

[woinlove]

Woinlove Ive been in secret affairs where noone was hurt and open affairs where only MM and I were hurt.

 

I can tell you for sure that in all cases the BS was not hurt. Particularly in the open affair. She was happy and yes I spoke to her and yes I met her on more than one occasion and have seen her relatively recently (but the affair has been over for years).

 

So perhaps we can ALL learn from reading about each others' experiences and see that not all BSs are alike, not all APs are alike, not all WS are alike and not all affairs are alike.

 

You cant generalize. Im Jewish and certain people are surprised that I eat shrimp. Cant generalize.

 

Yes often people are hurt in affairs. But that wasnt the question. The question was is pain inevitable. In other words must there be pain in all affairs. And the answer to that is no IMO.

 

Open affairs are quite different as there is no lying or deception involved and for a BS who never finds out, likely all they experience is the distance and intimacy killing of lying and deception that seems to eat at their self-esteem without them knowing why.

 

I'm curious as to how you would know in a secret affair that the BS was not hurt. Were you a close confidant of MM's wife? How Seren described the lack of intimacy during an affair hidden from her is how I have heard other BSs describe it. My point is that all we are hearing about on the angle that BS aren't hurt before they know, is from the very people who played a role in hurting them. So we have that perspective, but no first hand accounts which support it.

[woinlove]

I have heard BS's say that the A did make things better in the longrun.

 

 

Yes, some BS describe a stronger and happier M in the long run. Usually they attribute this to the work and commitment made after the discovery. But they still describe the pain and hurt they felt. People that hurt don't have to hurt forever and they can discover new strength and commitment in themselves.

[OWoman]

Oh dear. It looks like someone needs one of those comprehension classes after all.

 

And who would that someone be, Anne?