What would be the reaction to an "Unapologetic MM"?

January 29, 2011

Mostlikely about as much as you do:D

Was this even necessary? And what does it even mean?

January 29, 2011

But this is the very thing that OW's believe about the wife. Poor MM doesn't want to be married but his wife makes him stay, he wouldn't be there if his wife wasn't so controlling and abusive, he wouldn't be cheating if only his wife wasn't forcing him to be married to her. I don't know about your MM but a lot of OW don't seem to be with grown men who are capable of making up their own minds with no help whatsoever. There are many OW stories here about MM being abused and controlled by their wifes. As a matter of fact your response to a poster who just said your MM is probably meek and controlled by his wife was :

"OMG! You must know my xMM and his wife! You have just summed up their entire relationship! Well done!"

So which is it? Is he a strong intelligent man who is controlled by noone or is he a meek little man who can't make his own decisions?

If you are talking about your own situation that is one thing, although to give generalisations is quite another. How can there be justification to judge anothers situation? We never know what another person goes through.

January 29, 2011

Was this even necessary? And what does it even mean?

Apologies, I thought I was in the OM/OW forum, thinking I ended up in Infidelity?

January 29, 2011

Mostlikely about as much as you do:D

I can't really respond to this because it doesn't make any sense.

Are you okay?

January 29, 2011

If you are talking about your own situation that is one thing, although to give generalisations is quite another. How can there be justification to judge anothers situation? We never know what another person goes through.

HeeHee, for me, you were right in another post about not knowing where you ended up. Reading all this stuff makes my head spin! I can't keep all of the threads and posts straight! Please excuse me if I'm being off, but I remembered a post and I think it was you that said you knew when you were being betrayed? So then you said you don't buy that most spouses don't know something?

That's the same generalization that you are finding distasteful here.

January 29, 2011

Given that you wrote:

Well here's some paraphrased posts hypothetically from an unapologetic AP - genders reversed.

Certainly similar posts by the OW passed virtually without comment.

stating very clearly that you were "paraphrasing" a SINGLE OW source, and then admitted that:

As you correctly identified the first 2 were direct paraphrases of something you wrote - no twisting or warping - just gender reversals.

,

Your subsequent claim that:

This was also a direct paraphrase of someone else's post - who are you to say it was "just crap" - it wasn't your post anyway?

comes across as disengenous at best, or a thinly veiled attempt at character assassination elsewise.

If you had sourced it from more than one OW's posts, why try to pass it off as all mine - since the first bit is very clearly identifiable as mine?

If you have personal issues with me, you may wish to address these somewhere other than on a public internet forum where personal attacks such as this are against the TOS.

January 29, 2011

Frankly with genders reversed the comments were disgustingly misogynistic.

If you're implying that my comments were misandrist - I'm sure the men who chose that arrangement happily and with full informed consent would disagree with you.

As for whether the reversal was misogynist - if a man presented that arrangement to a woman openly and honestly and she agreed to it, that would be her choice as a consenting adult. Your deciding you considered it misogynist would not make it so.

January 29, 2011

Please excuse me if I'm being off, but I remembered a post and I think it was you that said you knew when you were being betrayed? So then you said you don't buy that most spouses don't know something?

That's the same generalization that you are finding distasteful here.

Well I don't buy it either. It's a bit of a stretch to imagine that a spouse (who lives with the CS, has known them well for a long time, shares a bed and a bathroom with them for Pete's sake!!!) isn't aware that SOMETHING'S off... unless they're not paying that much attention. In which case, they've got bigger marital problems than infidelity.

January 29, 2011

Well I don't buy it either. It's a bit of a stretch to imagine that a spouse (who lives with the CS, has known them well for a long time, shares a bed and a bathroom with them for Pete's sake!!!) isn't aware that SOMETHING'S off... unless they're not paying that much attention. In which case, they've got bigger marital problems than infidelity.

I think it could depend on a persons skills at lying and truthfully some cheaters are very, very good at it and some of them are very careful also as in regards to missing time and faking the happy homelife when they are home. Some people are incredibly devious.

January 29, 2011

I think it could depend on a persons skills at lying and truthfully some cheaters are very, very good at it and some of them are very careful also as in regards to missing time and faking the happy homelife when they are home. Some people are incredibly devious.

But don't you think this part of a person's character (being devious) would become apparent (in perhaps other ways) after YEARS of living with them? How is it possible to successfully fool somebody you're living with for THAT LONG? And why would someone choose to marry - and stay married to - such a devious person in the first place?

Nope, I'm just not buying it.

I don't know, it just seems to me that an awful lot of BS's are projecting their own marital problems onto the OWs on this board. They're making the OW the garbage-pail for all the problems they're having with their CS's... because it's EASIER than confronting their CS's, or leaving them altogether. But it's such a waste of their time and energy. The OW's on this board don't have anything to do with their problems!! They're just pissing in the wind.

I think many BS's here are afraid to admit that they buried their head in the sand so that they could continue to maintain the status quo with their "unapologetic MM" husbands.

January 29, 2011

I don't know, it just seems to me that an awful lot of BS's are projecting their own marital problems onto the OWs on this board. They're making the OW the garbage-pail for all the problems they're having with their CS's... because it's EASIER than confronting their CS's, or leaving them altogether. But it's such a waste of their time and energy. The OW's on this board don't have anything to do with their problems!! They're just pissing in the wind.

I think many BS's here are afraid to admit that they buried their head in the sand so that they could continue to maintain the status quo with their "unapologetic MM" husbands.

Ah. At last! Furthermore, how can the OW, who is according to most BS, an inferior woman, not as smart-pretty-funny-amazing homemaker-devoted mother - whatever, as the holy wife, have this much power to wreck a whole and happy family? How is it that the OW, who in most cases only knows the MM for a little while (comparing with length of marriage) is such a powerful force who manages to convince an otherwise loyal and loving husband to stray?

Can't BSs see that by laying the blame in the OW's lap they are in fact the ones who are giving her (the OW) all the power?

January 29, 2011

Can't BSs see that by laying the blame in the OW's lap they are in fact the ones who are giving her (the OW) all the power?

From what I have learned by reading this and other relationship forums, the OW may have power in creating or exacerbating a problem within a marriage, but they have little to no power in creating a solution. Especially a solution that benefits them.

January 29, 2011

OMG! You must know my xMM and his wife! You have just summed up their entire relationship! Well done!

(and just to further your sexual education - PLAYING rape and ACTUAL rape are totally differnt things... And people usually are NOT having sex in front of their daughters... Do you???)

Ohhh redcurls I have to tell you- you are cracking me the f*ck up.

Please women- I don't know if you've ever had "sex talks" with your friends but for real... A hugeee percent of women (and i'm NOT talking about men right now) have rape fantasies. OF COURSE we don't REALLY want to be raped- but when you're a strong, confident woman in every other aspect of your life, when YOU pay the bills, when YOU go to work every day, when YOU provide for yourself and your children, the idea of giving up control and YES being dominated (yup i said it) really can be quite pleasing.

Just wanted to give you props there redcurls for saying it while you were getting a beat down. Glad you didn't back down.

January 29, 2011

Well I don't buy it either. It's a bit of a stretch to imagine that a spouse (who lives with the CS, has known them well for a long time, shares a bed and a bathroom with them for Pete's sake!!!) isn't aware that SOMETHING'S off... unless they're not paying that much attention. In which case, they've got bigger marital problems than infidelity.

OMG! Of course we knew something was off, but when you love and trust someone, never in a million years do you assume they are OFF because of someone else!

It is almost a relief to discover the existence of an OM/OW because it is the aha moment that explains it all before the devastation cripples you.

They are still f****ing you, still wishing you a good day before work, and still taking vacations and planning family holidays with you.

But then, they are a million miles away emotionally and you cannot fathom what is wrong? Why, all-of-a-sudden, do they seem to be falling out of love with me?

And you ask, and ask, and ask, and our either shouted at or told nothing.

Are you serious here? Have you ever been betrayed? Dated a guy who grew distant? C'mon!

January 29, 2011

OMG! Of course we knew something was off, but when you love and trust someone, never in a million years do you assume they are OFF because of someone else!

It is almost a relief to discover the existence of an OM/OW because it is the aha moment that explains it all before the devastation cripples you.

They are still f****ing you, still wishing you a good day before work, and still taking vacations and planning family holidays with you.

But then, they are a million miles away emotionally and you cannot fathom what is wrong? Why, all-of-a-sudden, do they seem to be falling out of love with me?

And you ask, and ask, and ask, and our either shouted at or told nothing.

Are you serious here? Have you ever been betrayed? Dated a guy who grew distant? C'mon!

The gas lighting is a true B!&(H. Loving someone and wanting to believe the best from that person is used against you. Mr. Messy traveled, a lot. He was gone more than he was home. I knew he took the extra jobs because we had a young kids and he wanted provide for them. There was absolutely know way I could have known about the affairs in other states. He came home, played the father, husband, community man with great skill. Yes, he had issues. When I would bring them up he would turn it around on me. I was the one who was unstable, ungrateful and imagining things. I must admit I begin to believe him. I tried to be what he said I was not.

He has been diagnosed NPD. After the fact, with much research and counseling I can see how he did it. But as they say hindsight is 20/20 and loving someone you have known most of your life and you are slowly indoctrinated into their way of living, doesn't help the situation at all.

January 29, 2011

The gas lighting is a true B!&(H. Loving someone and wanting to believe the best from that person is used against you. Mr. Messy traveled, a lot. He was gone more than he was home. I knew he took the extra jobs because we had a young kids and he wanted provide for them. There was absolutely know way I could have known about the affairs in other states. He came home, played the father, husband, community man with great skill. Yes, he had issues. When I would bring them up he would turn it around on me. I was the one who was unstable, ungrateful and imagining things. I must admit I begin to believe him. I tried to be what he said I was not.

He has been diagnosed NPD. After the fact, with much research and counseling I can see how he did it. But as they say hindsight is 20/20 and loving someone you have known most of your life and you are slowly indoctrinated into their way of living, doesn't help the situation at all.

Well said Bent!

My H too had just received a high-powered promotion and had to travel a lot.

We chalked his moodiness up to job stress. He convinced us it was so.

She was a work colleague. It was very convenient for him to be "working late" and traveling often. It was the perfect cover.

January 29, 2011

Given that you wrote:

stating very clearly that you were "paraphrasing" a SINGLE OW source, and then admitted that:

,

Your subsequent claim that:

comes across as disengenous at best, or a thinly veiled attempt at character assassination elsewise.

If you had sourced it from more than one OW's posts, why try to pass it off as all mine - since the first bit is very clearly identifiable as mine?

If you have personal issues with me, you may wish to address these somewhere other than on a public internet forum where personal attacks such as this are against the TOS.

Sorry a misused "an" on my part. The word OW is used here as a plural or singular. I used the word "hypothetical" did you not notice?

I did not identify you, or pass anything off as yours - you chose to identify yourself and so have now opened up your post(s) for further comment.

There's been no personal attack on you, you are accusing me of something I didn't do.

It remains my opinion, that when the genders are reversed (thus creating an anti-women diatribe) with some of the things you say, it comes off as highly misogynistic.

January 29, 2011

OpenBook said....

But don't you think this part of a person's character (being devious) would become apparent (in perhaps other ways) after YEARS of living with them? How is it possible to successfully fool somebody you're living with for THAT LONG? And why would someone choose to marry - and stay married to - such a devious person in the first place?

Nope, I'm just not buying it.

It could become apparent and it could not. Also.......most people would not choose to marry someone who is known to be devious but some people go to great lengths to fool someone and sometimes they do it really well.

I don't know, it just seems to me that an awful lot of BS's are projecting their own marital problems onto the OWs on this board. They're making the OW the garbage-pail for all the problems they're having with their CS's... because it's EASIER than confronting their CS's, or leaving them altogether. But it's such a waste of their time and energy. The OW's on this board don't have anything to do with their problems!! They're just pissing in the wind.

I think many BS's here are afraid to admit that they buried their head in the sand so that they could continue to maintain the status quo with their "unapologetic MM" husbands.

I'm sure that happens sometimes, but actually not so much here at LS. There are a handful of BS's here who have successfully reconciled their marriages and to do that, they made the ws accountable and also they seem to be the ones who were more than willing to walk away and not take any ****e. Go read at that other place for infidelity and you will see a lot of situations just as you describe and you'll also see a lot of posters having multiple d-days in their sigs. To me......admitting that you've stayed with someone who has put you through multiple d-days implies a lack of self respect and also a refusal to see that you do have an "unapologetic" MM. Also.......over there the blame is spread often to that evil OW/OM. It's a completely different dynamic over there vs here and over there certainly is an example of your post.

So in conclusion I think that the BS's you see here for the most part, are nobodies fools.

January 29, 2011

Sorry a misused "an" on my part. The word OW is used here as a plural or singular. I used the word "hypothetical" did you not notice?

I did not identify you, or pass anything off as yours - you chose to identify yourself and so have now opened up your post(s) for further comment.

There's been no personal attack on you, you are accusing me of something I didn't do.

It remains my opinion, that when the genders are reversed (thus creating an anti-women diatribe) with some of the things you say, it comes off as highly misogynistic.

Funny - I've never known lawyers to use words carelessly.

Unless Freudian undergarments were in play, that is.

January 29, 2011

Ohhh redcurls I have to tell you- you are cracking me the f*ck up.

Please women- I don't know if you've ever had "sex talks" with your friends but for real... A hugeee percent of women (and i'm NOT talking about men right now) have rape fantasies. OF COURSE we don't REALLY want to be raped- but when you're a strong, confident woman in every other aspect of your life, when YOU pay the bills, when YOU go to work every day, when YOU provide for yourself and your children, the idea of giving up control and YES being dominated (yup i said it) really can be quite pleasing.

Just wanted to give you props there redcurls for saying it while you were getting a beat down. Glad you didn't back down.

Perhaps those who've never had fantasies should read up on them. Nancy Friday has done some collections in a very popularist tone that even the most brain-challenged should be able to follow, and she has chapters on rape (or "ravishing" as she also calls it) fantasies which, she stresses, are very different from actual rape.

Role play can be very liberating. Perhaps some Hs would be less likely to stray if their Ws were more open to creativity in the bedroom - or is that too subversive a possibility? (Note - I said SOME)

January 30, 2011

Funny - I've never known lawyers to use words carelessly.

Unless Freudian undergarments were in play, that is.

Oh very droll.

[umm - we all make mistakes - even me - even you - some harmless others not so]

January 30, 2011

Oh very droll.

[umm - we all make mistakes - even me - even you - some harmless others not so]

I was referring to a hypothetical lawyer. I didn't identify any LS poster.

January 30, 2011

Yeah, that was making me laugh. Maybe the people on the OW/OM forum dont' get out of their own little bubble much? There are a bunch of trolls all over this site who keep getting banned and coming back, and most of them are really arrogant, really hateful, really misogynistic. They pop up mostly in Dating but I've seen them on other boards and I'm pretty sure they're not all BSes.

I might be a posting newbie but I've been reading all over these boards for a while .

Mostlikely about as much as you do

Was this even necessary? And what does it even mean?

Is this better???? Do I have your approval?

Snipe. Snipe. Snipe.

I still don't know what that other post was supposed to mean.

Most likely as much as you do...what?

An observation: almost all of your posts lately have been snipes and gripes with what others are posting. Why even bother doing so? Its not adding anything to the threads.

I would ask you the same.

I can't really respond to this because it doesn't make any sense.
Are you okay?

I'm fine, are you? The above should explain it

HeeHee, for me, you were right in another post about not knowing where you ended up. Reading all this stuff makes my head spin! I can't keep all of the threads and posts straight! Please excuse me if I'm being off, but I remembered a post and I think it was you that said you knew when you were being betrayed? So then you said you don't buy that most spouses don't know something?

That's the same generalization that you are finding distasteful here.

Yes, and the problem? *Yawn*

January 30, 2011

I was referring to a hypothetical lawyer. I didn't identify any LS poster.

Of course; and you and I both make mistakes, as do lawyers.

January 30, 2011

I was referring to a hypothetical lawyer. I didn't identify any LS poster.

If I were to tell you I'm not a lawyer; you could say that you never said I was.

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What would be the reaction to an "Unapologetic MM"?

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