Bad first time sex - is relationship doomed?

[SmileFace]

You know how some products come with a warning sign?

I think this should apply to people as well.

[donnamaybe]

I said: "I wish you would come faster I am getting tired"

All this is going to accomplish is to make it take longer.

 

Then I just stopped being into it visibly and was looking around the room, checking out the time on my watch etc

Instead, you should have said, "I'll bet you're tired by now. Why don't you just relax and let me try something?" Then give him the best BJ he's ever had. That ALWAYS does the trick.

[Kamille]

And Kam, it wasn't just how she communicated a need for a break. Even afterwards she told him she hopes it's better next time. Honestly, what kind of CARING girlfriend says that?!

 

I'm not arguing what she did was caring. You say she was selfish, I say anxieties made her act selfish. We both know OG struggles with a deep set insecurity about her capacity to find love. I think NS hit it on the head when she says that in order to impress him (and keep him crazy about her so that she keeps feeling worthy of love), OG overlooked her own needs. This, in turn, leads her to feel frustrated and angry when she fails to get the validation she perceives herself as needing.

[Stung]

I'm glad someone still has some optimism. LS has been trying to help her for YEARS now, through all of her different names. If she's not trying to figure out how to sue her boss (who she had a crush on) for not paying enough attention to her, she's acting destructively and selfishly, as demonstrated here.

 

I agree that she behaves and thinks like a teenager.

 

I'm familiar with this name and the one immediately before it; if there are more, I don't know them.

 

Personal growth can be jumpstarted at any time, IMO, sometimes after self-awareness has lain fallow for years.

 

I wouldn't call myself exactly optimistic, but I rarely rule it out entirely, either.

 

I also rarely comment in OG's threads because while I do think the LS chorus might say something that actually trickles in, I suspect she's a more experiential learner, the kind who needs to hit rock bottom first , the kind who needs to bang her head against the wall a few hundred times before she can even see the door. I might know a little something about that from personal experience, myself .

[A O]

. Even afterwards she told him she hopes it's better next time. Honestly, what kind of CARING girlfriend says that?!

Still hitting your hit against a brick wall SG I see. The OP is self-sabotaging, looking for ways to sabotage this relationship and anyone who potentially may get close to her. This will be the first of many attempts to sabotage this, and any future relationship, not unlike her many attempts to sabotage the long drawn out dating process she experienced beforehand. This is standard dysfunctional behavior that any shrink will recognize.

 

The best way we can all help this poster is to implore her to seek professional help. Whatever professional help she undertook in the past she either failed to heed or was of substandard quality. But she needs help, not only for her benefit but also for the many men who will fall prey to her dysfunction, and may in turn be adversely affected by it (and as if the world doesn't have enough bitter men already!)

 

And for those of you who think I'm barking up the wrong tree....please make a mental note of how she's behaving now and whether she's improved any, whether her relationship is running more smoothly, if at all, in six months from now. If not, then its time to get off the support/enabling bandwagon and on to the seek help bandwagon for the sake of many, not just her.

 

 

.

[Stung]

The OP is self-sabotaging, looking for ways to sabotage this relationship and anyone who potentially may get close to her. This will be the first of many attempts to sabotage this, and any future relationship, not unlike her many attempts to sabotage the long drawn out dating process she experienced beforehand. This is standard dysfunctional behavior that any shrink will recognize.

 

The best way we can all help this poster is to implore her to seek professional help. Whatever professional help she undertook in the past she either failed to heed or was of substandard quality. But she needs help, not only for her benefit but also for the many men who will fall prey to her dysfunction, and may in turn be adversely affected by it (and as if the world doesn't have enough bitter men already!)

 

 

 

.

 

Agreed. (10 characters)

[Mme. Chaucer]

We both know OG struggles with a deep set insecurity about her capacity to find love.

 

Maybe some concern about her capacity to give love might lead somewhere.

 

I don't think that all this analysis of OG's deep seated insecurities, etc. is helpful to her at all. I think OG spends most of her conscious life analyzing that stuff.

 

USING other people in order to experience ego gratification is wrong, in my very strong opinion about this, especially when a person with a pattern of doing this feels justified in it. I think that is just as wrong as using people for sex, for money, for status ... and maybe worse, because the ONLY things played with are emotions and vulnerability.

 

OG, I hope you will answer my questions I posed in my earlier post. I would also like you to spend some time envisioning this scenario:

 

You know how you gave him head for 20 minutes (trying to give him pleasure, I'd hope) without the results you wanted? How about if you saw him looking at his watch during that time? What about looking around the room? And then, when you gave up, if he said, "I hope it's better next time."

 

I think you would be DEVASTATED. And, you know what else? If you came here and posted that, I would say to you:

 

That guy is a piece of crap. Don't let the actions of such a person harm you. Obviously he is incapable of caring about another person's feelings ... or else he is sadistically looking to cause pain. I know it hurts now, since you were so excited and happy about how things were going between you, but you have certainly dodged a bullet. You truly deserve someone who would never treat you that way. Next!!!

 

And you know what? These friends of yours here on LS who seem to be trying to coddle you in this situation would be hating on that guy even MORE.

 

Think about that, please.

[welikeincrowds]

I'm not arguing what she did was caring. You say she was selfish, I say anxieties made her act selfish. We both know OG struggles with a deep set insecurity about her capacity to find love. I think NS hit it on the head when she says that in order to impress him (and keep him crazy about her so that she keeps feeling worthy of love), OG overlooked her own needs. This, in turn, leads her to feel frustrated and angry when she fails to get the validation she perceives herself as needing.

 

You are consistently brilliant and on point, fyi.

 

This thread is disheartening. I am trying to hold my tongue.

 

I agree that SACWA's own conflict should be in view of the perspective. But SACWA, for me, your struggle does not vindicate you. I feel that this man has given you something genuine and valuable in the earnestness of his vulnerability, and you didn't just ignore it, you used it, squeezing it for your own relief. And that is so easy. It's not naivety, because you should know better. You are a grown woman. Show some respect for the bared spirit of this man, to whom you have chosen to bare your body.

[northern_sky]

 

I don't think that all this analysis of OG's deep seated insecurities, etc. is helpful to her at all. I think OG spends most of her conscious life analyzing that stuff.

 

 

Not in a very deep or meaningful way. I think she is very aware of her patterns, but not that aware of what makes her tick. In fact I think her biggest issue is that she doesn't know herself. Like who is she aside from somebody who is extremely bright? What does she like to read? What kind of music does she like? How does she respond to the world?

 

This is why she isn't discriminating in IMPORTANT WAYS about the men she dates, and why she has trouble connecting with them on a deep level. I absolutely think this kind of introspection could be fruitful to her.

[hearttobreak]

Could be the condom. I know I have problems with latex condoms. Just can't feel anything so, after a few minutes, I feel her orgasm and then I imitate penis convulsions an pretend to cum. When we switch to non-latex condoms or no condoms (other birth control), it i much easier for me to reach climax. That could be his problem too.

[northern_sky]

Maybe some concern about her capacity to give love might lead somewhere.

 

I don't think that all this analysis of OG's deep seated insecurities, etc. is helpful to her at all. I think OG spends most of her conscious life analyzing that stuff.

 

USING other people in order to experience ego gratification is wrong, in my very strong opinion about this, especially when a person with a pattern of doing this feels justified in it. I think that is just as wrong as using people for sex, for money, for status ... and maybe worse, because the ONLY things played with are emotions and vulnerability.

 

OG, I hope you will answer my questions I posed in my earlier post. I would also like you to spend some time envisioning this scenario:

 

You know how you gave him head for 20 minutes (trying to give him pleasure, I'd hope) without the results you wanted? How about if you saw him looking at his watch during that time? What about looking around the room? And then, when you gave up, if he said, "I hope it's better next time."

 

I think you would be DEVASTATED. And, you know what else? If you came here and posted that, I would say to you:

 

 

 

And you know what? These friends of yours here on LS who seem to be trying to coddle you in this situation would be hating on that guy even MORE.

 

Think about that, please.

 

Where is anybody "coddling" her in this thread? All of us have been critical of her behavior, myself included. As I wrote, she needs to shift her focus away from making her boyfriend like her, and start focusing on deeper qualities.

 

Your efforts to help her by tearing her down have been useless thus far. And I can guarantee you they will never, ever help her. You must be aware of that by now. So whose ego is being gratified now at the expense of another?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Not in a very deep or meaningful way. I think she is very aware of her patterns, but not that aware of what makes her tick. In fact I think her biggest issue is that she doesn't know herself. Like who is she aside from somebody who is extremely bright? What does she like to read? What kind of music does she like? How does she respond to the world?

 

This is why she isn't discriminating in IMPORTANT WAYS about the men she dates, and why she has trouble connecting with them on a deep level. I absolutely think this kind of introspection could be fruitful to her.

 

Well, those are all valid aspects of self-discovery. Regardless, the use of other human beings (unless we're talking about a paid, trained therapist) to fulfill these voids is not acceptable and might even be pathological.

 

I know you and OG are great friends. Imagine if she came here and said that a guy had done exactly what she had done, to HER, per my little scenario above. Your vilification of that guy would be absolute, and so would mine.

 

Is OG exempt from rules of basic common human decency ... because she has yet to "find herself"?

 

Please.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I said: "I wish you would come faster I am getting tired"

Then I just stopped being into it visibly and was looking around the room, checking out the time on my watch etc

 

Insensitive is the nicest way I could describe your attitude and actions.

 

Do you think she intended to make him feel bad?

Or that she was just a little reckless with her actions?

 

I don't think she really cares either way so long as her feelings are validated.

 

Maybe some concern about her capacity to give love might lead somewhere.

 

USING other people in order to experience ego gratification is wrong, in my very strong opinion about this, especially when a person with a pattern of doing this feels justified in it. I think that is just as wrong as using people for sex, for money, for status ... and maybe worse, because the ONLY things played with are emotions and vulnerability.

 

And you know what? These friends of yours here on LS who seem to be trying to coddle you in this situation would be hating on that guy even MORE.

 

Think about that, please.

 

I concur. I typically don't respond to OG's threads... but your just so spot on with this advice. I agree that increasing her ability to care for others would reduce her insecurity level.

 

I just want to add that I believe OG's pattern of behavior is strongly influenced by her family relationship. This is good to keep in mind when providing advice.

[Stockalone]

This wasn't a quick momentary blip. This was almost methodical behavior. She wanted him to know just how unimpressed she was.

 

I agree. However, what NS and Kamille are saying makes sense to me.

 

Her "resentment" could be the result of what she perceives as a lack of appreciation.

 

OG needs the guy she is interested in to be absolutely/unwaveringly into her. And he also has to prove that to her by doing what she considers to be the right thing at the right time. If OG believes the guy isn't into her enough, her shields come up immediately. When that happens, she questions everything and goes from being excited to being cold?

 

I am also guessing that she feels hurt, because in her way, she did try to open up and be vulnerable. If that doesn't bring the results she is hoping for, it's the guy who is at fault and she retaliates.

 

That the guy did take hours to come was, as she said herself, a sign of him not being into her enough, which is why she probably resented having to "suffer" through the marathon sex. And she let him know that (retaliation).

 

I think it is going to be extremely difficult for a guy to break through her defences and get her to trust him. What will be even more difficult is getting her to give a guy the benefit of the doubt. He can do plenty of things right, but wrong move might destroy every progress they made as a couple.

 

Frankly, not many guys are even capable of successfully handling such a situation in the first place. And of those who are, many might not even want to try.

 

And OG, if you are reading this, I am not saying that you don't deserve a good guy. It's okay to have certain expectations, we all do. And it's okay to not blindly trust a guy. But even if a guy treats you right, you'll always encounter some bumps in the road. Eventually, you have to work with the guy and have some faith in him and yourself. You really can't expect him to always do everything right.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Stockalone

[LittleTiger]

Well, those are all valid aspects of self-discovery. Regardless, the use of other human beings (unless we're talking about a paid, trained therapist) to fulfill these voids is not acceptable and might even be pathological.

 

I know you and OG are great friends. Imagine if she came here and said that a guy had done exactly what she had done, to HER, per my little scenario above. Your vilification of that guy would be absolute, and so would mine.

 

Is OG exempt from rules of basic common human decency ... because she has yet to "find herself"?

 

Please.

 

I absolutely agree with you Mme.C and I posted a similar scenario a couple of pages ago which will no doubt fall on deaf ears.

 

If any of the words she spoke to him had been spoken by him to her there would be a massive outcry from the 'LS girls' about what a terrible guy he was and how she should steer well clear.

 

It's funny how many of them can't see it from his perspective.

 

OG is very lucky that he didn't just get up and walk out without a backward glance. If this relationship does continue it's certainly not going to be a healthy one. She is egocentric and he has little self esteem if he's prepared to allow a woman to treat him like that. It's a recipe for disaster.

[northern_sky]

Well, those are all valid aspects of self-discovery. Regardless, the use of other human beings (unless we're talking about a paid, trained therapist) to fulfill these voids is not acceptable and might even be pathological.

 

 

People constantly engage in ego gratification, yourself included. I agree that it's not healthy or acceptable, but you're demonizing OG, and acting like she's pathological, for behavior that is run of the mill human selfishness.

 

 

I know you and OG are great friends. Imagine if she came here and said that a guy had done exactly what she had done, to HER, per my little scenario above. Your vilification of that guy would be absolute, and so would mine.

 

Is OG exempt from rules of basic common human decency ... because she has yet to "find herself"?

 

Yes, I would encourage her to dump him, but that's because I wouldn't personally care about the guy in that hypothetical.

 

Because I care about OG's happiness I'm hoping she can patch things up and allow this relationship to grow.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

Your efforts to help her by tearing her down have been useless thus far. And I can guarantee you they will never, ever help her. You must be aware of that by now. So whose ego is being gratified now at the expense of another?

 

My ego is not invested here at all. That's lame.

 

I am horrified by her behavior, and her apparently cavalier take on it.

 

I am not trying to "help" her, either, except to "help" her at least attempt to empathize with another human being ... one that she chose to enter into an intimate emotional and physical relationship with. And, perhaps, to "help" her realize that she behaved atrociously and that amends are required, in the realm of basic human decency.

 

I'm allowed to feel strongly about what is posted here on LS for all to read, and to express it. It has NOTHING to do with "tearing down" of anybody. It is my reaction.

 

The other myriad of issues need, as AO posted, to be worked on with a very specifically trained professional if they are ever to improve.

[TheBigQuestion]

People constantly engage in ego gratification, yourself included. I agree that it's not healthy or acceptable, but you're demonizing OG, and acting like she's pathological, for behavior that is run of the mill human selfishness.

 

 

 

There is nothing run of the mill about OG's behaviors. Sorry.

[northern_sky]

My ego is not invested here at all. That's lame.

 

I am horrified by her behavior, and her apparently cavalier take on it.

 

I am not trying to "help" her, either, except to "help" her at least attempt to empathize with another human being ... one that she chose to enter into an intimate emotional and physical relationship with. And, perhaps, to "help" her realize that she behaved atrociously and that amends are required, in the realm of basic human decency.

 

I'm allowed to feel strongly about what is posted here on LS for all to read, and to express it. It has NOTHING to do with "tearing down" of anybody. It is my reaction.

 

The other myriad of issues need, as AO posted, to be worked on with a very specifically trained professional if they are ever to improve.

 

There's something that strikes me as selfish about popping occasionally into threads, with no interest in helping the OP, just to express horror and moral righteousness. You're basically rubbernecking.

[LittleTiger]

behavior that is run of the mill human selfishness.

 

If you believe that her behaviour is run of the mill human selfishness then that doesn't bode well for our society.

 

However, I have a feeling that if the tables were turned and it was OG who had been treated badly, you wouldn't be quite so generous of spirit.

[northern_sky]

There is nothing run of the mill about OG's behaviors. Sorry.

 

Her *behavior* isn't run of the mill, but her selfishness isn't abnormal compared to other people. Of course I think she'd be happier if she weren't so wrapped up in her own ego, but to brand her as "pathological" in her selfishness is just silly and suggests a lack of understanding of human nature.

[northern_sky]

If you believe that her behaviour is run of the mill human selfishness then that doesn't bode well for our society.

 

However, I have a feeling that if the tables were turned and it was OG who had been treated badly, you wouldn't be quite so generous of spirit.

 

Nope, I didn't mean the behavior itself -- I should have made that clearer in my post -- but the selfishness it displays.

 

I don't think OG is pathologically selfish, and I stand by that. And again, so people don't misinterpret, I still believe she should strive to be less selfish.

[donnamaybe]

Her *behavior* isn't run of the mill, but her selfishness isn't abnormal compared to other people. Of course I think she'd be happier if she weren't so wrapped up in her own ego, but to brand her as "pathological" in her selfishness is just silly and suggests a lack of understanding of human nature.

Oh, please! If that behavior is what you expect of people, I truly feel sorry for you!

 

Did you even READ my post about what I would have done in that situation? Does that sound like that level of selfishness? I would NEVER have made the guy feel bad about that whole scene.

[northern_sky]

Oh, please! If that behavior is what you expect of people, I truly feel sorry for you!

 

Did you even READ my post about what I would have done in that situation? Does that sound like that level of selfishness? I would NEVER have made the guy feel bad about that whole scene.

 

I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the unwillingness of people to read carefully. I said two times in this page that I wasn't referring to her behavior, which I agree isn't normal, but the selfishness it displays. Is that distinction really that hard to grasp?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Yes, I would encourage her to dump him, but that's because I wouldn't personally care about the guy in that hypothetical.

 

Well, that's a problem.

 

I successfully raised a daughter (she is 23 now). I do, and have always loved her more than anything, ever, in life. Probably, even more than you love OG! When she did something wrong, I did not change my own value judgement about her behavior based upon my feelings of love for her. And when she was a child, I did my part to make sure that she experienced the appropriate consequences for her actions (good and bad). The fact that she has pretty severe ADD made that connection difficult for her (between her actions and the resulting consequences) and it is somewhat even to this day.

 

No, that is not some kind of "tough love." It's normal parenting. The result of this should, one would hope, be an adult who has a conscience, and who is personally accountable for their own stuff.

 

Not that I am trying to "parent" OG. Heaven forbid. Just making a point that wretched behavior is wretched behavior whether you care about the perpetrator or not. Victims of it are still victims, whether you care about the perpetrator or not.

 

I don't even think this is a matter of opinion; I take it as fact.

 

Just FYI. Now I'm done with this. I know it's off the topic of whether OG's relationship is doomed because of her boyfriend's bad sex technique. My bad. Blech.