dreamingoftigers Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 2 factors that I have noticed with female cheaters: 1. They believe themselves to be victims in general so it is easier to justify cheating. 2. they are with guys that simply don't listen and often have freak-outs. Not blaming the guys, I think that kind of type attracts each other: the conflict-avoidant cheater and the critical, angry spouse. Chicken or egg doesn't even apply.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 If the woman is American, she has a 99.99% probability of cheating. I read it on http://www.americantrashbags.com where they have all the facts.
zengirl Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 They more than likely cheated but just never told you. While it's always possible my friends didn't discuss things with me, I do think I likely know my friends better than you do. They definitely aren't "serial cheaters" as you say. Believe me, you know when you have friends who are serial cheaters, particularly women. Seriously, women with lots of male friends are often serial cheaters. Close opposite sex friends are often the starting point for cheating. The guys are usually hanging around because they have an interest in her. Unless the guys are gay... or physically ugly... good odds that she is a cheat. I see it very differently. Women with sincere male friends are unlikely to cheat with said friends. Women without sincere male friends are more likely to need "orbiters" or the kind of guys who are just hanging around because they want to get laid. I know you have issues with seeing women as people who could be useful in your life in some other way besides sexual or romantic, but that doesn't mean all men do. I have loads of male friends. I've never cheated and doubt I ever will. The one thing I could 100% guarantee is that if I ever do, it certainly won't be with one of my friends. That would be horribly self-destructive. Which brings me to something to add to the list: Female cheaters -- more so than male cheaters, though this can also be a data point for them -- tend to be women who are very self-destructive. They don't tend to be happy women. 2 factors that I have noticed with female cheaters: 1. They believe themselves to be victims in general so it is easier to justify cheating. 2. they are with guys that simply don't listen and often have freak-outs. I agree with the victim-hood thing. I also think this applies to both female and male cheaters, though it may manifest differently.
Karmartia Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 I don't think human beings are by nature monogamous so the answer would most likely be that all types of women "cheat," given the right circumstances. Men are no different except that thay are perhaps a bit more inclined to seek sex outside of the relationship for no particular reason.
Els Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 They more than likely cheated but just never told you. Seriously, women with lots of male friends are often serial cheaters. Close opposite sex friends are often the starting point for cheating. The guys are usually hanging around because they have an interest in her. Unless the guys are gay... or physically ugly... good odds that she is a cheat. Why are you even putting up this thread if you immediately dismiss experiences that differ with yours? The bolded is a red herring that can be used to disparage ANYTHING said here. What if the women YOU know who don't have many close male friends also cheated as much as those who did, but didn't tell you? I think people, in general, who cheat, are usually those who are too afraid to leave a bad relationship, even if they're unhappy all the time in it with no light at the end of the tunnel, until there is someone else in store.
Emilia Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 The question is... Why? Why do you have a high number of male friends? Chances are you will cheat at some point. [...] Agreed. They Crave male attention. I disagree with this post and your others stating that women with many male friends are likely to be cheaters. I have a lot of male friends, the girl opposite me in the office has a lot of male friends and neither of us are cheaters. I never date within my friends' circle, not even when I'm going through a draught, some of my male friends I have known all in my adult life. I have male friends because a lot of interests I have are usually male-oriented and don't interest women: I watch a lot of sport, I circuit train and I'm a climber and I used to work for a safari company and learnt skills like changing tires on Land Cruisers, fixing basics things, stuff like that. The girl sitting opposite me (who loves her fiance very much) is a trained electrician and she is also a former fencing champion. We are both very used to male company and would 100x more likely to spot players and chauvinists etc than girlie girls who are clueless when it comes to the male gender and likely to fall for their charm. It shows the limits of your life experience and your world if you seriously believe everyone picks friends based on 'attention seeking'
zengirl Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) The question is... Why? Why do you have a high number of male friends? Can't speak to her, but I have a lot of male friends because I like people and tend to give them a chance. And half the people on this planet (roughly) are men. And I wasn't raised in the 18th century where I was not allowed to speak to men unchaperoned unless they'd made an inquiry about my dowry, so I've had conversations and interactions that have led to building positive, platonic relationships (what we call friendships) with men as well as women. Some of my male friends are close friends; some are peripheral---just like my female friends. The close ones are close friends because we've been friends a long time and probably been through some **** together and just know each other really well. (None of them are exes or anyone I have/would hook up with.) If you can't see half the planet as people you could potentially build any sort of relationship with, other than a sexual/romantic one, then that's kind of sad for you. People are more than their genetalia. However, judging someone by the quality and character of their friendships, particularly with the opposite sex (I find men with sincere female friends more palatable), is more telling. It's pretty easy to tell the difference between orbitors --- those hanging around for sexual/romantic reasons --- and real friendships/platonic acquaintences if you actually look deeper and understand how bonds form between people. Edited January 25, 2011 by zengirl
SouthernSunshine Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Lonely housewives who feel neglected. Housewives who have the opportunity to cheat b/c their husbands are never home, and the kids have their own life. Housewives who turn cheating into a hobby while they remain dependent on their husband's income.
EasyHeart Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 In my experience, the women who are most likely to cheat are the ones who are convinced that they will never cheat. Pretty much any person will be tempted to cheat if they have the opportunity and don't think they'll get caught. People who are conscious of this possibility avoid putting themselves in any situation in which they might be tempted. For instance, if they meet a person of the opposite sex to whom they are attracted, they will consciously avoid and minimize contact with that person. People who think they will never cheat won't take preemptive steps to avoid temptation, so they are more likely to find themselves in situation in which they will cheat.
Emilia Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 In my experience, the women who are most likely to cheat are the ones who are convinced that they will never cheat. Pretty much any person will be tempted to cheat if they have the opportunity and don't think they'll get caught. People who are conscious of this possibility avoid putting themselves in any situation in which they might be tempted. For instance, if they meet a person of the opposite sex to whom they are attracted, they will consciously avoid and minimize contact with that person. People who think they will never cheat won't take preemptive steps to avoid temptation, so they are more likely to find themselves in situation in which they will cheat. or perhaps temper the words 'thinks would never cheat' with 'knows from life experience what's best'. when I'm in a relationship I don't put myself in a situation where the other person would get the wrong idea. it's not so much fear of temptation, it just won't come up in the first place. example is the office christmas party: most in a committed relationship left pretty early - before the freeflow of the booze - to go home to their wives/husbands. you go home to your loved one or call your boyfriend and he comes over or whatever rather than stay out with the singles until 3am
Author Untouchable_Fire Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 I totally agree with this, and I am very much suprised by comments from men in this thread. I mean guys, are you being serious? That women who have "a lot of male friends at work" and had "a lot of sexual partners" are most likely to cheat?? I seriously don't know what to say. It seems to me that you fail to realize the simple fact that women and men are different, and therefore they cheat for different reasons (at least in my opinion). While it's always possible my friends didn't discuss things with me, I do think I likely know my friends better than you do. They definitely aren't "serial cheaters" as you say. Believe me, you know when you have friends who are serial cheaters, particularly women. I see it very differently. Women with sincere male friends are unlikely to cheat with said friends. Women without sincere male friends are more likely to need "orbiters" or the kind of guys who are just hanging around because they want to get laid. I know you have issues with seeing women as people who could be useful in your life in some other way besides sexual or romantic, but that doesn't mean all men do. Seriously... where did that come from? No your totally wrong. My female friends who I consider platonic fall into 3 basic categories. 1. Women dating or formerly dating my friends, 2. Women with fantastic personalities but who are not physically my type, 3. Women who were good friends and now live long distances away. I'm not saying that I know your friends better... I'm just pointing out that those are not usually things you will hear from your friends. Do you agree that women are much less likely to be honest about cheating? There have been some decent studies that lend credence to that idea. I have loads of male friends. I've never cheated and doubt I ever will. The one thing I could 100% guarantee is that if I ever do, it certainly won't be with one of my friends. That would be horribly self-destructive. Maybe you are disagreeing because what you consider "loads of male friends" I would consider normal. How do you interact with them? How frequently? Does it change when your in a relationship? How many do you have? Which brings me to something to add to the list: Female cheaters -- more so than male cheaters, though this can also be a data point for them -- tend to be women who are very self-destructive. They don't tend to be happy women. I agree with the victim-hood thing. I also think this applies to both female and male cheaters, though it may manifest differently. I definitely thought you were onto something with people who play the victim in the other thread. Those who tend to feel sorry for themselves or blame others consistently is probably a very high risk trait. I think people, in general, who cheat, are usually those who are too afraid to leave a bad relationship, even if they're unhappy all the time in it with no light at the end of the tunnel, until there is someone else in store. Maybe you are new. I've been around this site long enough to have a healthy dose of cynicism. Don't believe the first thing people tell you... read between the lines when possible. I see plenty of people in fantastic relationships cheat. I've also seen people just hit a lowpoint in a great relationship and cheat. The state of the relationship is just a crappy excuse.
Author Untouchable_Fire Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 Additional type Women who have Female friends who are cheating. It normalizes the behavior and creates an environment like peer pressure.
zengirl Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 I'm not saying that I know your friends better... I'm just pointing out that those are not usually things you will hear from your friends. What are not usually things you will hear from your friends? Now, you have me very confused. Do you agree that women are much less likely to be honest about cheating? There have been some decent studies that lend credence to that idea. Western women, not really. Women globally, maybe, if you include more of the traditional-minded countries to the list. That's only because the penalties for it are so high for them there. Though it depends on WHO you mean they'll lie to (all cheaters generally lie to their partners). I've seen your surveys posted, if you're referring to the UK ones, and they didn't really give me any great sense of data towards anything. Maybe you are disagreeing because what you consider "loads of male friends" I would consider normal. Maybe. I'm not really into counting or using percentages to judge people's friendships though. I don't think it does any good. What do you consider "normal"? How do you interact with them? How frequently? Does it change when your in a relationship? How many do you have? I moved 7 months ago, so my local friends are mostly a big group. I already had a close male friend here, and he (along with another girl who has become a close friend) is my roommate. I treat my male friendships no differently than my female friendships. Close ones are, of course, treated different than peripheral ones. I talk about similar things with my male friends as my female friends, go to events in co-ed groups or with a male or female friend, and I am in a relationship. My BF knows all my friends (or has heard of them, if he hasn't met them). Me being in a relationship does not affect my friendships because they are, in no way, romantic. I couldn't begin to count the number of male friends I've had (or female friends)---that's the problem with moving so much. I do try hard to stay in touch with people and things like FB make that possible. I travel to see old friends, and lots of my friends are travelers who have come to see me.
Woggle Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Another kind of woman to look out for are women with no sense of accountability. Nothing is ever their fault and if they cheat it is the man's fault. They will run down a list of everything he did wrong and that will be the reason why she cheated. Even if they don't blame him it just happened or they were too drunk to control themselves. They keep getting into all these situations yet they are to blame for none of it.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 The question is... Why? Why do you have a high number of male friends? Chances are you will cheat at some point. I really wonder where you are coming from to post something like this to a woman who offered her personal experience to contribute to your thread. They more than likely cheated but just never told you. Seriously, women with lots of male friends are often serial cheaters. Close opposite sex friends are often the starting point for cheating. I would be shocked if you don't start cheating at some point in the future. The only thing you really need is opportunity... and I'm sure at some point you will create it. And the above, to zengirl ... unbelievable. Really. Newsflash: The world is full of women and men who do not cheat even without external controls like "no opposite sex friends." It is insulting, presumptuous, and rude to call the integrity of your fellow LS members into question because they HAVE FRIENDS. Really. I'm pretty sure that all the men and women who are terrified about the propensity of the other gender to behave with no morals or integrity unless they are tightly controlled are extremely likely to end up finding exactly what they are afraid of. Life just works that way, a lot.
sally4sara Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 IME: Alcoholism/ heavy drug use Infidelity in their parent's marriage Low self esteem A change to her appearance she perceives to be a negative goading her to seek out male approval.
Author Untouchable_Fire Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 What are not usually things you will hear from your friends? Now, you have me very confused. Unless you are emotionally tight with someone they usually don't admit to you that they have been cheating. Many times they won't talk about that stuff even with people they are very close with. Western women, not really. Women globally, maybe, if you include more of the traditional-minded countries to the list. That's only because the penalties for it are so high for them there. Though it depends on WHO you mean they'll lie to (all cheaters generally lie to their partners). I've seen your surveys posted, if you're referring to the UK ones, and they didn't really give me any great sense of data towards anything. Look up the study done by Terri Fisher at Ohio State University and Michele Alexander at the University of Maine. You can draw your own conclusions. Additionally look up research showing that testosterone increases levels of risk taking behavior, while estrogen slightly reduces it. Together that should provide you with a solid framework for understanding why there is a gender difference in how some of these situations are handled. I moved 7 months ago, so my local friends are mostly a big group. I already had a close male friend here, and he (along with another girl who has become a close friend) is my roommate. I treat my male friendships no differently than my female friendships. Close ones are, of course, treated different than peripheral ones. I talk about similar things with my male friends as my female friends, go to events in co-ed groups or with a male or female friend, and I am in a relationship. My BF knows all my friends (or has heard of them, if he hasn't met them). Me being in a relationship does not affect my friendships because they are, in no way, romantic. I couldn't begin to count the number of male friends I've had (or female friends)---that's the problem with moving so much. I do try hard to stay in touch with people and things like FB make that possible. I travel to see old friends, and lots of my friends are travelers who have come to see me. You don't really sound like the kind of girl that is being discussed here. I think the tipping point is that you have female friends that also participate in a group style setting. Platonic relationships are rarely 100% platonic... especially if one or both people are available and attractive. These types of relationships typically exist in a more fluid and fluctuating state. It is insulting, presumptuous, and rude to call the integrity of your fellow LS members into question because they HAVE FRIENDS. Really. I'm pretty sure that all the men and women who are terrified about the propensity of the other gender to behave with no morals or integrity unless they are tightly controlled are extremely likely to end up finding exactly what they are afraid of. Life just works that way, a lot. Maybe, but I think you are the last person who should be talking about the rudeness of others. I'm fully aware of how self fulfilling prophecies work... especially in regards to trust. It's important to not be so trusting that it comes across as apathy, and not so jealous and untrusting that it comes across as controlling or insecure. We have laws against things like theft and murder because internal controls are not enough for most people. Cheating isn't much different, except there are no external controls.
SteveC80 Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 women have the same urges as men get tired of sex wth husband and have a chance to cheat with much hotter guy Even women who dont cheat they all fantasize abut it with certain men
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 If the woman is American, she has a 99.99% probability of cheating. I read it on www.americantrashbags.com where they have all the facts. My guess is that website is highly biased.
Author Untouchable_Fire Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 IME: Alcoholism/ heavy drug use Infidelity in their parent's marriage Low self esteem A change to her appearance she perceives to be a negative goading her to seek out male approval. I completely agree with these! What about women who are easily bored? I've been on dates in the past with women I felt needed to be constantly entertained. Also... do you think that has anything to do with thrill seeking types? Are they one in the same or different?
zengirl Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Unless you are emotionally tight with someone they usually don't admit to you that they have been cheating. Many times they won't talk about that stuff even with people they are very close with. Disagree. Especially about women who cheat. My male friends are less likely to tell me if they cheat (maybe because I am part of the 'sisterhood' or maybe because men are just acting the way you describe). I am the go-to advice girl in my circle, generally, and very easy to talk to (surprisingly non-judgmental in some ways, if you know me; though I never sugarcoat it if asked for an opinion). Maybe I'm also emotionally close to a lot of people? It's possible. My friends talk to me about all sorts of **** I don't need to be hearing, especially the girls. You don't really sound like the kind of girl that is being discussed here. I think the tipping point is that you have female friends that also participate in a group style setting. I hang out with guys alone, too, sometimes. My roommate and I (the male one) just went to see a movie the other night. Just him and I. My BF had already seen it, as had most everyone else we knew. I do often hang out in group settings because a lot of the stuff I like to do is group-oriented. Platonic relationships are rarely 100% platonic... especially if one or both people are available and attractive. These types of relationships typically exist in a more fluid and fluctuating state. 100% disagree. I've had many male friends through single and relationship times (mine and theirs) and the relationships were never in some kind of fluid and fluctuating state. They were platonic. I don't keep orbitors. I completely agree with these! What about women who are easily bored? I've been on dates in the past with women I felt needed to be constantly entertained. Also... do you think that has anything to do with thrill seeking types? Are they one in the same or different? I think being easily bored could be a warning sign, but not really. Fickle would be. Depends on what you mean by 'easily bored.' Some people are easily bored AND still easily amused (i.e. they are easily bored in some settings). That wouldn't be the same issue as fickle. Nor would someone who sought change for productive reasons. But someone who likes change for the sake of change... likes the 'new' part best. That seems like a cheating red flag. I don't think thrill-seeking, in positive ways (i.e. skydiving or climbing mountains) is a sign to watch for. Destructive behaviors that are also thrill-seeking, maybe.
hopesndreams Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Is there a difference between men and women when it comes to cheating? I think not. They all share the same characteristics. Emotional immaturity. Seeking validation from others. Attention seeking. Conceited. Selfish. Entitlement. Bored. Superficial. Scared to be alone. Lack empathy. Poor communicators. Looking for happiness from others. Skilled deceivers. Never satisfied. "Love" Junkie.
Analeigh Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Women with low self-esteem who seek outside validation to feel their worth usually turn into cheaters, IME. This. I agree. I have cheated in the past and after a lot of growth, I can see it was because I had NO self confidence and I was lured by men who made me feel validated. Not shifting blame from myself though, and I don't cheat now and haven't in a long time.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Maybe, but I think you are the last person who should be talking about the rudeness of others. News flash: Taking exception to many of the things you post (all of them profoundly sexist against women) does not make me "rude." I am not rude; in fact I have excellent manners. On the other hand, telling female posters here that they are very likely to cheat is beyond rude. I think you ought to be embarrassed, and to apologize, if you have any manners. Really, if you live in a world where people having friends of the opposite sex is a threat to monogamy, I feel that it must be a pretty dark and sorry place. I'm sure glad I'm not in there.
Els Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Maybe you are new. I've been around this site long enough to have a healthy dose of cynicism. Don't believe the first thing people tell you... read between the lines when possible. So... why should we believe you?
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