ivalm Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Just curious, what timeline is typical in your dating experience (what happens at what date)? What timeline would you prefer? As an example, my timeline: 1. Hug/perhaps kiss on first date 2. Definitely kiss/perhaps make-out second date 3. Definitely make-out by 4th date 4. First intimacy 4-7th date 5. BF/GF talk ~6-8th date If slower, I feel there is a problem in the relationship. If much faster, I usually take a step back. I'm curious if my timeline is typical. I know some girls (in particular I think the girl I'm now dating) want BF/GF talk before intimacy... what do you think?
zengirl Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I don't know it precisely. I'd say, generally, if a guy hasn't kissed me by the 3rd date, that's weird. If we haven't become exclusive AND had sex by around 2 months (at this point), that's weird. Other than that, I pretty much let it flow for about a year. After a year, it has to already naturally be REALLY serious (like I could see myself marrying the guy, and he coud see the same, within another year or so), or I'm out.
yah Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I'm in my mid-20s: Hug -- 1st/2nd date Kiss -- around 2nd date? Make out -- 1 month? Sex -- sometime between 3-6 months Exclusivisity -- Prior to making out Prior to having sex, I'd need to be able to see that there is a likelihood of having a future with the guy. Sex is a big deal to me. By a year, I'd need to have had "the talk" (where we see ourselves and this relationship in the near future). By year 2, there should be no questioning that this relationship is "it."
Stonewall Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I don't know it precisely. I'd say, generally, if a guy hasn't kissed me by the 3rd date, that's weird. If we haven't become exclusive AND had sex by around 2 months (at this point), that's weird. Other than that, I pretty much let it flow for about a year. After a year, it has to already naturally be REALLY serious (like I could see myself marrying the guy, and he coud see the same, within another year or so), or I'm out. Isn't it great that you aren't dating me I didn't become exclusive with the girl I'm dating until 3 months in and we still haven't had sex yet lulz
Knittress Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I'm amused at the thought of a timeline. Usually I sit around for a good long while celibate and miserable about it, then after a period of time (from months to years) someone will catch my eye and I'll go for it. Like zero to sixty. And surprisingly, this works fairly well for me...
Author ivalm Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 I'm in my mid-20s: Hug -- 1st/2nd date Kiss -- around 2nd date? Make out -- 1 month? Sex -- sometime between 3-6 months Exclusivisity -- Prior to making out Hm, ok, I'm in early 20s. I think it would be interesting to know what are the ages of other posters.. It may be telling. I'm amused at the thought of a timeline. Usually I sit around for a good long while celibate and miserable about it, then after a period of time (from months to years) someone will catch my eye and I'll go for it. Like zero to sixty. And surprisingly, this works fairly well for me... So no partner and then you go to sex on first date? Interesting..
Eeyore79 Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I want exclusivity and bf/gf status before I'm willing to have sex or make out; if we haven't had the exclusivity talk within a couple of months I'll start to lose interest and will look elsewhere for someone who's willing to offer exclusivity. After that I'll pretty much let the relationship take its course for a year or so; by the second year I'd expect that the relationship was heading towards commitment. If there was no commitment by the two year mark I'd begin to get restless, and I'd probably have checked out of the relationship within the next six months. In my early twenties I had a three year relationship which was stable and nice, but it didn't appear to be going anywhere so I dumped him just before the third anniversary (he only just married his new gf at age 33!). I subsequently had a relationship which lasted just over two years; we lived in the same house-share and I moved out before the two year mark because I was losing interest due to lack of commitment, and after several more weeks of indecision I finally dumped him (he's been with his new gf for four years and still hasn't married her!). Another relationship suffered a similar fate; the guy in question made it very clear that he wasn't interested in marriage, so I ended the relationship just after the two year mark (he's now mid-thirties and still unmarried). Poof - almost my entire twenties wasted on men who had no intention of marrying me! Why do men waste my time like this?! I'm curious to know if there are any gender differences on this topic - Zengirl and I have both indicated roughly a two year timeline for commitment before we cut our losses and start looking elsewhere. Is this standard for most females, and what about the guys?
Author ivalm Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 I want exclusivity and bf/gf status before I'm willing to have sex or make out; if we haven't had the exclusivity talk within a couple of months I'll start to lose interest and will look elsewhere for someone who's willing to offer exclusivity. After that I'll pretty much let the relationship take its course for a year or so; by the second year I'd expect that the relationship was heading towards commitment. If there was no commitment by the two year mark I'd begin to get restless, and I'd probably have checked out of the relationship within the next six months. In my early twenties I had a three year relationship which was stable and nice, but it didn't appear to be going anywhere so I dumped him just before the third anniversary (he only just married his new gf at age 33!). I subsequently had a relationship which lasted just over two years; we lived in the same house-share and I moved out before the two year mark because I was losing interest due to lack of commitment, and after several more weeks of indecision I finally dumped him (he's been with his new gf for four years and still hasn't married her!). Another relationship suffered a similar fate; the guy in question made it very clear that he wasn't interested in marriage, so I ended the relationship just after the two year mark (he's now mid-thirties and still unmarried). Poof - almost my entire twenties wasted on men who had no intention of marrying me! Why do men waste my time like this?! I'm curious to know if there are any gender differences on this topic - Zengirl and I have both indicated roughly a two year timeline for commitment before we cut our losses and start looking elsewhere. Is this standard for most females, and what about the guys? Well, one issue with marriage is I feel I can't do it until I'm financially stable. Right now I'm in grad school; my expected salary upon graduation should land me in the (hopefully upper) middle class, however, for the next 3-4 years I am guranteed to be very poor as my stipend is pitiful Thankfully, I have no loans I don't feel like I could marry a girl while I'm still in grad school even if I loved her a lot. I mean, for me marriage is intricately connected to having kids (I want 3 or 4 !) and to owning a house (or condo). I can't afford real estate and, similarly, I can't afford kids (I don't want to have kids until I can afford good (probably private) schooling, etc..)
Eeyore79 Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Well, one issue with marriage is I feel I can't do it until I'm financially stable. Hmm, interesting... I've heard it said that women wait for the right man to marry, while men wait for the right time. The responses here seem to support that theory. Supposedly a woman wants to marry when she meets a man who she wants to be married to. Men, on the other hand, are more like taxis - at a certain point in their lives their "Available" light goes on, and the next suitable girl gets the ring. I find it interesting that a guy wouldn't propose to a girl unless he was financially stable - whatever happened to marrying for love? Guys fail to propose within a reasonable timescale and then act confused when the girl breaks off the relationship - as Beyonce said, "If you liked it then you should'a put a ring on it"...
Analeigh Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) 1. Hug/perhaps kiss on first date 2. Definitely kiss/perhaps make-out second date 3. Definitely make-out by 4th date 4. First intimacy 4-7th date 5. BF/GF talk ~6-8th date That is pretty much exactly what my timeline usually is, with one key distinction. Around date 4-5 I want to know if we are dating exclusively. I am not typically a multi-dater and if a man is still dating other people after date 5, our personalities don't mesh. I have occasionally deviated and slept with a man between dates 2-5. It wasn't and isn't my style and never ended up working for me. With my current relationship, which is pretty damn amazing, it was: 1. Hug kiss on first date 2. Kiss second date 3. Make out on date 3 4. Exclusivity talk on date 4, heavy makeout 4. First intimacy date 9? I think? It was about week 7. 5. BF/GF talk ~ about 2.5 months after we started dating. And I agree with Eeyore and zengirl...after 2 years if there is no commitment, I would cut my losses and move on. Edited January 24, 2011 by Analeigh
Author ivalm Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) That is pretty much exactly what my timeline usually is, with one key distinction. Around date 4-5 I want to know if we are dating exclusively. I am not typically a multi-dater and if a man is still dating other people after date 5, our personalities don't mesh. Hm, I guess I never talk about "exclusive dating" since I never multidate and I don't know people who do (apart from those on these forums ).. I usually go straight for GF/BF talk. Hmm, interesting... I've heard it said that women wait for the right man to marry, while men wait for the right time. The responses here seem to support that theory. Supposedly a woman wants to marry when she meets a man who she wants to be married to. Men, on the other hand, are more like taxis - at a certain point in their lives their "Available" light goes on, and the next suitable girl gets the ring. I would never marry "the next suitable girl" and when I do marry it'll be out of love. However, if you can't financially afford to maintain a marriage then why do it? Why can't a girl love a guy and stay with him until he is ready to settle and marry her? Especially if "settling" is something like finishing school or some other finite-length transition.. On the other hand, I've never had anything approaching a 2 year relationship, so perhaps if I do have it before finishing my PhD I'll feel strongly enough to marry her and break my rule Edited January 24, 2011 by ivalm
zengirl Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) However, if you can't financially afford to maintain a marriage then why do it? Why can't a girl love a guy and stay with him until he is ready to settle and marry her? Especially if "settling" is something like finishing school or some other finite-length transition. I guess it depends on what you mean. I mean, do you live with your parents? I think that if two people can support themselves individually as adults, they can certainly support themselves together, married or whatnot. And while I don't give a crap if a guy is rich, if he can't support himself, I'm probably not entering into a relationship with him at that stage (It's one thing if you fall on hard times, but that's a crappy stage at which to begin a relationship is all.) So, I'd never take the money excuse. Waiting on benchmarks at that point just seems silly unless you're planning a big wedding that costs a lot of money or something, but even then you can commit to it and start to save for it. Personally, I hate big weddings, and I want a plain band (no diamond) so money doesn't factor in much. I know couples who've saved up for the ring together, or the wedding, or even married first, then had the official wedding a few years later, but any which way they were committed to each other, and that commitment costs nothing. At any rate, I'd never want to be waiting on a milestone to be engaged. I'd like to think the relationship was more important than outside forces and needed no external validation. Edited January 24, 2011 by zengirl
Eeyore79 Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 However, if you can't financially afford to maintain a marriage then why do it? Why can't a girl love a guy and stay with him until he is ready to settle and marry her? Many girls tend to assume that if you don't propose within a certain time frame you're a lost cause and will never propose, and at that point they begin to lose interest. A relationship has to progress naturally, from dating to exclusivity to sex to commitment, and if there's no progress during a reasonable time frame then a girl will often start looking around for a better prospect. Perhaps it's because their biological clocks are ticking, so if you string them along without a commitment for too long they're liable to just give up and look for a more commitment-ready man. From a female viewpoint I don't think your financial situation has anything to do with marriage; you shouldn't have to "maintain" a marriage when the girl is capable of supporting herself and was doing so long before you came along. In the female mind, your financial status has nothing to do with whether you propose or not; you should propose if you love her and want to be with her forever, regardless of the size of your wallet. You're not supporting her now, so nothing should change after you propose, other than you'll have made a step towards commitment - being engaged doesn't cost any more money than dating does. The female brain sees only one possible reason for your lack of proposal: a lack of love and commitment to the relationship.
Eeyore79 Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 any which way they were committed to each other, and that commitment costs nothing. At any rate, I'd never want to be waiting on a milestone to be engaged. I'd like to think the relationship was more important than outside forces and needed no external validation. Women wait for the right man to marry. However, if you can't financially afford to maintain a marriage then why do it? Why can't a girl love a guy and stay with him until he is ready to settle and marry her? Men wait for the right time to marry. I rest my case
Analeigh Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Hm, I guess I never talk about "exclusive dating" since I never multidate and I don't know people who do (apart from those on these forums ).. I usually go straight for GF/BF talk. I don't know many who do either. For me it is that the BF/GF status is huge to me. I don't do it casually after a year in college where I had 4 boyfriends, all lasting 2-3 months. It also leads to a lot greater intimacy for me, and I don't mean sex. I can have sex with someone if I know we aren't sleeping around, we are very comfortable with each other, have great chemistry, and are progressing forward. But I don't think that having sex should mean an instant relationship for me with all the emotional intimacy it entails. I also don't want to be in a relationship with someone before I find out they suck in bed. LOL!! I would never marry "the next suitable girl" and when I do marry it'll be out of love. However, if you can't financially afford to maintain a marriage then why do it? Why can't a girl love a guy and stay with him until he is ready to settle and marry her? Because most of us have been with guys that NEVER will settle down with us. Most of my male friends agree, at least the ones that aren't players. Their view, and mine, is that after 2 years if a guy hasn't proposed he most likely never will. And most smart women who want kids want to be married first, and like it or not we women have biological timelines.
Author ivalm Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) Women wait for the right man to marry. Men wait for the right time to marry. I rest my case Ok ok, back to the main topic.. dating timeline, not marriage timeline It WAS very interesting to see such strong opinion on marriage timeline however.. I guess my view is different from the one of women? Or at least LS women! Or perhaps at 22 I'm also younger (but, zengirl, I DO/CAN support myself, just very poorly!). Certainly I hope to marry before 30... bah.. catching myself redirecting the topic again.. grr... dating.. must .. remain.. on topic... Edited January 24, 2011 by ivalm
forrest Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 being engaged doesn't cost any more money than dating does. The female brain sees only one possible reason for your lack of proposal: a lack of love and commitment to the relationship. I don't know. Those engagement rings a pretty expensive, couple thousand dollars. Plus, a wedding on average cost about $15-20k (http://www.costofwedding.com/). Where I live, I hear it is closer to $40k. Sounds pretty expensive to me.
zengirl Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) Ok ok, back to the main topic.. dating timeline, not marriage timeline It WAS very interesting to see such strong opinion on marriage timeline however.. I guess my view is different from the one of women? Or at least LS women! Or perhaps at 22 I'm also younger (but, zengirl, I DO/CAN support myself, just very poorly!). Certainly I hope to marry before 30... bah.. catching myself redirecting the topic again.. grr... dating.. must .. remain.. on topic... To me, dating and marriage are the same topic (just different stages of it) at this point. I can see that not being the case at 22. It wasn't for me at 22. . . I wasn't even sure I ever wanted to get married at that age. FWIW, I actually got the idea that a year was long enough to know if you wanted to be with someone a lot longer (potentially marry them) and commit from an exBF -- it was actually a source of stress between us, because I realized I didn't want to marry him, and his pressure to decide so broke us up, for the best, hence me incorporating it into my timeline and ideas, and my current BF has a similar idea. So not always a male/female dichotomy. I don't know. Those engagement rings a pretty expensive, couple thousand dollars. Plus, a wedding on average cost about $15-20k (http://www.costofwedding.com/). Where I live, I hear it is closer to $40k. Sounds pretty expensive to me. Plenty of men propose without the final ring or with a starter ring, and the couple can save up for a wedding together, if that's important to them. Personally, I don't understand expensive weddings, and I hate diamonds, so those costs have nothing to do with me (I've never met a man who really needed a 40K wedding, and if I did, I'm sure we'd be incompatible). Edited January 24, 2011 by zengirl
Eeyore79 Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I don't know. Those engagement rings a pretty expensive, couple thousand dollars. Plus, a wedding on average cost about $15-20k I agree with ZenGirl - I don't need a big expensive ring or a huge wedding, and would be happy to get engaged and save up together, or even just go to the courthouse with a couple of hundred dollars and get a marriage license. Sure, it would be nice to have money to spend on a wedding, but it isn't essential - I'd rather be proposed to with a cheap ring than not at all, and I'd have thought a guy would rather propose with a cheap ring than lose his girl due to lack of commitment. Re. dating timeline - as a woman my view is certainly different from yours Ivalm, since I'd expect a somewhat more stretched out dating timeline with exclusivity and bf/gf status before any sexual activity. Not all women are like that though, although I guess some would argue that the quality/respectable/wife material women often are.
KTB3LL Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 I agree that if a man does not propose by 2 years then he probably never will. I would say unless the relationship started out at a very young age like in high school. My boyfriend now dated his ex for 4 years and they lived together for 2. He never asked her to marry him when I ask him why he says she just wasnt the right girl. I feel bad for her because she is now almost 30 and wasted 4 years on him. But I told him from the beginning. "I'll give you 2 years at the max and I'm out" If they dont know your the one for them after 2 years then your probably not. Plus im almost 24 and I will not be almost 30 and have wasted 4 years on some guy who never wanted to marry me. I also threw in the "as soon as you realize I'm not who you want to spend your life with tell me so we can both move on". That's just my thoughts on it.
Author ivalm Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 I agree that if a man does not propose by 2 years then he probably never will. I would say unless the relationship started out at a very young age like in high school. My boyfriend now dated his ex for 4 years and they lived together for 2. He never asked her to marry him when I ask him why he says she just wasnt the right girl. I feel bad for her because she is now almost 30 and wasted 4 years on him. But I told him from the beginning. "I'll give you 2 years at the max and I'm out" If they dont know your the one for them after 2 years then your probably not. Plus im almost 24 and I will not be almost 30 and have wasted 4 years on some guy who never wanted to marry me. I also threw in the "as soon as you realize I'm not who you want to spend your life with tell me so we can both move on". That's just my thoughts on it. Hm, interesting. Just curious, how soon into your relationship did you have this kind of talk?
Eeyore79 Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 I wouldn't bring up that sort of topic for the first year at least. I think it's reasonable to ask someone to assess the prospects of the relationship at the one year mark. If the "commit in two years or I'm out" conversation was raised early on I'd expect that I wouldn't see the guy for a cloud of dust!
yah Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 OP, don't feel compelled to propose in 2 years if you are not ready yet. Different people have different ideal timetables. The only thing you HAVE TO do is to just be honest with the person you are dating. Similar to you, I'm in grad school as well and living on a stipend. When I began at age 21 and moved to a new city, the last thing on my mind was getting married.
Author ivalm Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 OP, don't feel compelled to propose in 2 years if you are not ready yet. Different people have different ideal timetables. The only thing you HAVE TO do is to just be honest with the person you are dating. Similar to you, I'm in grad school as well and living on a stipend. When I began at age 21 and moved to a new city, the last thing on my mind was getting married. And what about now? Actually, I started thinking about it and of the 4 other grad students in my lab (all guys), 2 are married.
zengirl Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 I wouldn't bring up that sort of topic for the first year at least. I think it's reasonable to ask someone to assess the prospects of the relationship at the one year mark. If the "commit in two years or I'm out" conversation was raised early on I'd expect that I wouldn't see the guy for a cloud of dust! I think it's fine to bring it up in terms of individual goals. My BF of six months and I talked about it, fairly organically, while talking about our exes and why we broke up. His relationships lately, and mine, have both tended to last around a year, little less, little more, and we discussed why. It was basically the same reason: After a year, you should know if you want to spend "a whole lot longer" together, and start talking about "forever and kids and planning stuff" (his words! but I'd expressed some similar things). Though, I kind of imagine if I ever get married, it'll be more of a discussion than a surprise proposal. A lot of my friends got engaged that way. Personally, I find it nicer. The rigid gender roles aren't really for me, including waiting around for a diamond. It's something I'd rather talk about and know that we were both on-track, moving towards something. The movement should be fun and gradual, but we should both have the same goals, or else dating, even for a year, is pointless. However, I don't expect the guy to know it's ME that early. I do expect him to be marriage minded and to let him know if he figures out it's NOT me. So I get that point. It really depends on how natural the conversations are. Since KTB3LL has a kid, it's likely something the guy realized --- that she'd want someone who could eventually be a serious partner --- from the get-go.
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