Friendzone

January 24, 2011

I have many female friends from school, and I saw them all as passive prospects. Some I hooked up with, some I didn't. At that time, I was inundated with new women, on an almost daily basis(coke/weed dealer at the time), and didn't care whether these women were interested in me romantically/sexually, we were all just having fun.

Now, my time is very limited. I work, I have hobbies, I have **** going on. I have plenty of friends, that I struggle to spend enough time with as it is. I don't need new friends, and don't have time for them unless they're involved in something I do on a regular basis and it's no problem integrating them into my life. It's also got nothing to do with not getting laid, because in the two years ive been out of school, I've slept with 20-25 women, compared to 5 or 6 from the age of 16-22. I am at a point now, where I'd like to find someone compatible for a serious relationship, and if you're a woman and not what I'm looking for and/or I'm not what you're looking for, and you won't let me **** you just for fun, I simply do not have time for you.

Now I will give you a perfect example, that's going on in my life as we speak. There's a girl that's new to my city(friend of a friend), that I'd met briefly a couple times within the last year. He told me she moved and that I should hang out with her. I felt some attraction the couple times we met, but I decided to let her contact me first. She said happy birthday to me on FB, then a week later I reciprocated, but nothing about getting together. Another week goes by and she says we should hang out, so we start talking. Everyday, right when I get to work and sign into gchat she hits me up(still does). She invited me to her apt. and cooked dinner for me, and I returned the favor the next week, and we also start discussing her coming on a ski trip with me. She's really fun and I'd say 100% compatible(on my end, at least), we have so much in common that it's scary. I asked her on a dinner date and she tells me "Sorry, I'm seeing someone. Sorry if I made you think the wrong thing, but I really enjoy your company!" I'm fairly certain that it's an LDR because she'd only been here a very short time and made no mention of him during our daily conversations over several weeks, but either way it's irrelevant; she's unavailable. I was confused and a bit bitter, but I've slept with a girl since, and have another lined up, so that's helped. She's initiated and maintained almost daily contact for about 3 weeks now and I'm not sure what to do. I've stopped hanging out with her in person, but she still wants to go on this ski trip with me and my friends. If nothing happens on this ski trip weekend, she's getting cut off for good. I'm going to tell her that I still see us a great match and it doesn't look like that will change, so she shouldn't contact me anymore unless her feelings for me change. I'm curious as to your thoughts about me and my situation, Questionis(and anyone else).

January 24, 2011

You don't have to cut off those men. If they don't want to be friends with you (because you don't want to date them, or for other reasons), they will simply back off or remove themselves from your life entirely.

Wow, what a massive post! *Limbers up

Ok, But how will i know if they are approaching me to be friendly or what? If they don't set off any red flags then I just have to see how it goes?

At least that's how it was for me

I'm sorry that you've been hurt like that...

So if I talk to a woman (aside from polite small talk), it's because I want to date her. A friendship with a woman does have it's merits, but at least for me, it's too risky and takes a lot of effort. That's not the fault of women, it's a result of my own issues.

But still, if all I want is a friend, it's a lot easier to be friends with my male friends.

I am sure that's how it looks most of the time from a woman's POV. However, I tried to give another explanation (although that is tied to sex as well) above in my reply to sally4sara

Thank you for an honest and sensitive response.

I don't understand where you see "men who hate women", based on the replies you have gotten so far.

This was in response to a reply about men who measure 6 on the Kinsey scale.

Thank you for taking the time out to write this post, I wish more men would be as good at articulating their emotions instead of coming out with really random spiteful comments. We need to clone you somehow

January 24, 2011

Questionis, check my post right before your most recent one, while you're still on, I'm leaving work soon.

January 24, 2011

It's not about feeling rejected, that's not the point. The point is getting on with your life after having been friendzoned without having an elephant in the room and have that elephant sit on top of you.

What kind of keeping in contact are we talking about here? I'm not talking about speaking on the phone for hours you know, I'm just saying say hello, how you been, occasionally.

She'll e-mail if she feels the need to. I could ask her if she's safe now after the mugging and leave it at that.

Actually I was talking about her emailing you during the mugging...But oh well, at least you asked her if she was safe...

January 24, 2011

Personally, if you can enjoy a woman's company without getting laid - you're useless for a relationship anyway.

Its a shame when you consider just how few guys actually are suitable for a relationship. Its a pity.

January 24, 2011

I'm going to tell her that I still see us a great match and it doesn't look like that will change, so she shouldn't contact me anymore unless her feelings for me change. I'm curious as to your thoughts about me and my situation, Questionis(and anyone else).

Here's what I think

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V

Personally, if you can enjoy a woman's company without getting laid - you're useless for a relationship anyway.

We are not taught to think of men as useless or lesser. So women see value in the friendship of women AND men. They are able to respect both men and women if they're capable of respecting anyone. You can't be friends with someone you have no respect or appreciation for.

So if you find no value in the platonic company of women save for the hope she will one day want a romantic association -why on Earth do you think you have anything to offer a relationship? You won't be screwing 24/7 fer pete's sake! She isn't going to stick around just for your stick while you show no value for her beyond her sex.

"Honey I'll care how your day went after a BJ."

It doesn't work that way.

January 24, 2011

Personally, if you can enjoy a woman's company without getting laid - you're useless for a relationship anyway.

Was the bolded supposed to be 'can't'? That would likely align more with my general read of the thread.

Topically, other than the wonderful wives of my male friends, I haven't had a balanced platonic friendship with a woman in close to 20 years. Even without any sexual attraction, the emotional dynamics inevitably become imbalanced. I've come to see the process as pretty simple, if not purposeful. In the beginning, the acquisition phase, I feel positive about the shared interests and apparent care and concern that a prospective friend would show. Time goes by. Over that time, 'stuff' occurs. It can be little stuff or it can be big stuff. Regardless, as is normal for women, 'stuff' gets worked through in the network. Enter my 'stuff' as a platonic friend. Hmm...why is this sincere interest and care not being reciprocated? IDK. There's an emotional investment in the friendship, so I ponder the balance. Consider my perspective. Recall the LS discussions of how a man is not a 'real man' if he discusses his 'stuff', but that shouldn't matter to a platonic friend, since there is no delineation of man and woman and our respective gender roles, only roles as friends, right?

Another aspect is, almost without exception, such platonic friends inevetibly toss in 'flirtations', whether in words, tone of voice, body language or expression of affection, which run counter to customary (and communicated by myself) boundaries of what a platonic friendship is. Again, the aspect of investment in the friendship comes up. Do I disconnect this friend for such behaviors which cause discomfort? Do I communicate this discomfort? Do I respond to such flirtations as a man normally does with a woman? I've done all and dealt with the emotional responses, generally negative. The worst response has been a rewrite of the friendship, similar in scope to the way my exW rewrote our M, to rationalize the dynamic.

There has been opinion here that I've become jaded and bitter. Perhaps that's true. I will say I do cast a wary and emotionally detached eye upon any woman who seeks to be my friend, regardless of what they might say. A lifetime of experience dictates those actions.

A simple test: Does the lady ever ring me up and inquire how I'm doing? Does she remember important aspects of my life and times, as I do hers? In my current circumstances, having recently processed a divorce and death of a parent, does she show proactive empathy and concern for how I'm feeling.

As an example, by best friend's wife, upon hearing (not from me) I might be experiencing surgery soon, says "you know, whatever you need, transport, a place to stay, care, whatever, we'll be there for you'

If/when I have some positive datapoints to add, I'll do that. The *real* friends I have in life will dictate the extent of which those are added.

January 24, 2011

i'm a bit surprised this friendzone issue has turned into a guys vs. girls issue with guys being against the idea and girls being for it. as a girl - - i had a guy friendzone me for 2 yrs - - and yes it was a friends with benefits situation. only i fell for him and i wanted more. and yes - - he knew how i felt. but he still expected me to be ok with him hanging out with other girls - - oh and to be available for sex. eventually i couldn't handle it and he wound up telling me i needed to move on - - even up to the end he said he still wanted to be friends. having been NC for two months, i'm beginning to see more clearly and now realize that staying in the friendzone isn't going to be an option. it was two years of hell. He was my first everything - -love and all - - which made it even harder to deal with the situation.

is it my fault for sticking around as long as i did? of course. but i'm just saying - - this isn't necessarily limited to either gender. and if it is - - the dynamics are much different. i'm not saying it isn't possible for guys and girls not to be friends. but as other posters have stated - - if there are feelings involved on one end it's simply not fair to that person.

Edited January 24, 2011 by radiodarcy

January 24, 2011

Questionis, check my post right before your most recent one, while you're still on, I'm leaving work soon.

Ok. Aside from the answer I have already given, what exactly are you looking for from this girl? Or should I take my reply from the gloating way you have described your sexual conquests?

January 24, 2011

Questionis, was that the only ****ing sentence that you read?

I said I have many female friends. I don't know if I made that clear, but I currently have many platonic, female friends, that I find great value in and would do almost anything for. I will say that there is no room for any more female friends in my life though. I also said that I find us to be very compatible in my view and I said that I'm looking for a serious relationship. Do you just read a single sentence from each paragraph and think you've gotten everything?

Now, try again please. I am actually interested in how you view my situation.

Edited January 24, 2011 by iJester

January 24, 2011

A simple test: Does the lady ever ring me up and inquire how I'm doing? Does she remember important aspects of my life and times, as I do hers? In my current circumstances, having recently processed a divorce and death of a parent, does she show proactive empathy and concern for how I'm feeling.

As an example, by best friend's wife, upon hearing (not from me) I might be experiencing surgery soon, says "you know, whatever you need, transport, a place to stay, care, whatever, we'll be there for you'

If/when I have some positive datapoints to add, I'll do that. The *real* friends I have in life will dictate the extent of which those are added.

This is what I think a friendship is about too! And as for the flirting I think you could also flirt back, but preferably when its not the two of you alone

I hope you ok, with the operation and stuff...

January 24, 2011

Questionis, was that the only ****ing sentence that you read?

I said I have many female friends. I don't know if I made that clear, but I currently have many platonic, female friends, that I find great value in and would do almost anything for. I will say that there is no room for any more female friends in my life though. I also said that I find us to be very compatible in my view and I said that I'm looking for a serious relationship. Do you just read a single sentence from each paragraph and think you've gotten everything?

Now, try again please. I am actually interested in how you view my situation.

Ok, I'm sorry! I'm going to read it again...

and no, you didn't make it clear!

January 24, 2011

I have many female friends from school, and I saw them all as passive prospects. Some I hooked up with, some I didn't. At that time, I was inundated with new women, on an almost daily basis(coke/weed dealer at the time), and didn't care whether these women were interested in me romantically/sexually, we were all just having fun.

I've slept with 20-25 women, compared to 5 or 6 from the age of 16-22. I am at a point now, where I'd like to find someone compatible for a serious relationship, and if you're a woman and not what I'm looking for and/or I'm not what you're looking for, and you won't let me **** you just for fun, I simply do not have time for you.

None of this makes it clear. Does it???? *makes rude noise with teeth

Ok anyway, I think she sounds lonely and probably will use like an "emotional tampon". I say go for it. I'd like to laugh in your face hahahahah when you finally realise she is taking you or a ride.

How's that?

January 24, 2011

Wow, you really are dense. Can you not tell, that I've already realized what she's doing, and I highly doubt there's a chance of anything actually happening between us?

Let me be even more specific. I want to know what you think of the way I'm handling it. Do you think I'm a mean person or whatever, as you described early on in this thread, for maintaining a short friendship then cutting it off? You know...the part that's actually relevant to the conversation.

Edited January 24, 2011 by iJester

January 24, 2011

Wow, you really are dense. Can you not tell, that I've already realized what she's doing, and I highly doubt there's a chance of anything actually happening between us?

Let me be even more specific. I want to know what you think of the way I'm handling it. Do you think I'm a mean person or whatever, as you described early on in this thread, for maintaining a short friendship then cutting it off?

Look, I don't find you funny at all. If that was your question, why didn't you just ask that from the begining? Do you actually care what my reply is or are you rapidly trying to make me come to the conclusion that you are an immature child posing as a 25 year old. It's working. Well done

January 24, 2011

The Freindzone is a more specific situation than simply having a friend of the other gender. The Freindzone implies that one person has much higher romantic and sexual interest than the other and is willing to receive less (platonic friendship) with the hope (usually misplaced) that the other will change their mind and become a lover.

This usually involves a lot of frustration and emotional turmoil for the Freindzoned party. Like one slow and constant rejection. Mostly self inflicted wounds by staying in that romantic limbo rather than walking away and finding another who will reciprocate the interest.

Edited January 24, 2011 by sumdude

January 24, 2011

I didn't realize I was being so unclear, and for that I do apologize. But I wrongly, assumed that you would read my post, then be able to realize what the relevant question I was asking was. I asked for your thoughts on me and my situation, which I had just described to you. I figured I wouldn't have to add, "as it relates to this 8 page thread". And yes, I really am interested in your answer, because you seem to think in a similar manner as the girl I'm dealing with. So, if you'd be so kind, as to actually give me that answer...what do you think of the way I am handling the situation, as it pertains to the overall discussion?

January 24, 2011

Was the bolded supposed to be 'can't'? That would likely align more with my general read of the thread.

Yup; typo moment:p

January 24, 2011

This usually involves a lot of frustration and emotional turmoil for the Freindzoned party. Like one slow and constant rejection. Mostly self inflicted wounds by staying in that romantic limbo rather than walking away and finding another who will reciprocate the interest.

Ok, but do you think the other party should completely cut off the other? You have used a hypothetical situation though, so in what situation is cutting off the other person acceptable? or is it acceptable in all situations?

January 24, 2011

Ok, but do you think the other party should completely cut off the other? You have used a hypothetical situation though, so in what situation is cutting off the other person acceptable? or is it acceptable in all situations?

Everyone has decide what is best for themselves.There's no one answer. I've been on both sides of these things. In fact I'm in a bit of a pickle at the moment myself. Though it's a bit more complicated involving an ex who is now a platonic friend as well as a musical partner. If it gets to be too much trouble for me emotionally I may have to give up more than just a friend.

If I'm the one who isn't interested and know that the woman wants more. Out of compassion for them I do not initiate contact and keep interaction at a minimum. I am friends with most of my exes though I would say on a fairly distant level. Perhaps it would be better to say I am friendly with most of my exes though not exactly friends.

If you're too hung up on someone who won't reciprocate you will linger long in love limbo and might not be able to see and act on other opportunities.

I also want to add that it's a bit disingenuous to pretend you're Ok with a platonic relationship when in your heart you really want more.

Edited January 24, 2011 by sumdude

January 24, 2011

I like that test, carhill. Not many of my current "friends" would pass it.

More recently, I have been friends with this girl for over a year now. One day, I asked her if she wanted to go to this festival that was coming up with another mutual friend. She said "ok! my boyfriend is coming too!". Just like that, she invites her boyfriend. Looking back, she has forgotten important details of me, she's only used me for company until she found herself another guy (she broke up with her ex a month or so before she got on the wagon again) and, once again, it is me who's initiating hanging out. She's not a friend, as much as she thinks she is.

I also agree with the flirtations and whatnot. Sometimes friendly behaviour turns into flirtations. My ex-girlfriend use to flirt with this guy a lot back in secondary school. They were "friends" but there was definitely flirting, verbal and physical, a lot of grabbing and touching. Is that friendship?

From my experience, things do get muddled up. For example, if I am there for her when she needs support, the emotional attachment deepens. I would even for girls that weren't attracted to me before and hence became my friends, I started to grow on them. Where does the friendship go then? Yes, IME, it ends.

January 24, 2011

Also, if you communicate a clear boundary about what you expect from the friendship, watch for the response.

I'll have some datapoints on that aspect coming shortly and will probably do a journal on this subject. I'm getting good with boundaries now. Thank you exW and MC

January 24, 2011

You guys have no idea how much you tell about yourself when you say platonic friendship is never sincere on the guy's part. Its about a certain kind of attitude. We are not taught to think of men as useless or lesser. So women see value in the friendship of women AND men. They are able to respect both men and women if they're capable of respecting anyone. You can't be friends with someone you have no respect or appreciation for.

And there is the disconnect. Unless there is some other longer-standing basis for a continuing friendship, being sexually rejected wipes out any notion that a woman respects or appreciates me. All I end up thinking is that she views me as half a man -- that stings too much . . .

January 24, 2011

All I end up thinking is that she views me as half a man -- that stings too much . . .

This is why we rarely read about women lamenting they're in the friendzone. They don't tolerate such a position and their sexual power gives that intolerance teeth. Bravo

January 24, 2011

And there is the disconnect. Unless there is some other longer-standing basis for a continuing friendship, being sexually rejected wipes out any notion that a woman respects or appreciates me. All I end up thinking is that she views me as half a man -- that stings too much . . .

Indeed, even the most rational man has a hard time dealing with being viewed as a neuter.

This is why we rarely read about women lamenting they're in the friendzone. They don't tolerate such a position and their sexual power gives that intolerance teeth. Bravo

LOL, reminds of a song by the Wallflowers "God Don't Make Lonely Girls"

Edited January 24, 2011 by sumdude

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