dispatch3d Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 I think first and foremost - you have to locate the source of where the insecurity comes from.... Not just what triggers it, but the actual source, i.e. starting point. What triggers it, is also an important identification, because it helps to understand the source and also provides us with a better understanding of our own reactionary behaviors. I found this post helpful. I think the lingo of the thing is slightly different, but I believe your post mostly outlines it correctly (and I had to actually work through your thinking; I then found holes in my own thinking). There is basically an internal belief (the insecurity), what you term "triggers" which basically cause the internal belief to be focused on in our thought process, and the external behaviour, which is us displaying the insecurity (whether we have a "choice" to or not) to the outside environment. So for example, I am fairly good at school. However, I guess I'm always slightly worried I'm going to fail a test. This is because (a) I have failed tests in the past (b) I have studied hard, and then failed tests © I have known all of the material really well, and STILL not done well on the test. So, before a test I'm usually going bat**** insane. I notice the external behaviours (because I recognize them as ridiculous). Then what I did do was just sit down, and attempt to chill out - because that really is my problem. I need to calm down and stop flipping out over things - even though biologically my body is telling me to do the opposite. When we display the insecurity, it's not usually very logical. There's some terminology in psychology, called system 1 and system 2. I don't know which system is which. Basically the idea there is one system of thinking (we'll call it system 1) where our minds are attempting to get away from something negative - known as the fight or flight syndrome. What I'll call system 2 is actual rational thought. So we look at the options and deduce the solution. These two systems CANNOT talk to each other, just by the nature of them. I think what you listed is the behaviours. Although we probably cannot reason through the ridiculous behaviour we are showing (if we could we wouldn't be displaying them), we can in fact recognize the behaviour and then become aware it's happening. Once you're self-aware, I think its much easier to switch to system 2 (because your like, oh **** system 1 again. Ok, things that make me relax.) Prehaps one of the differences between men and women is women's system 1 is much more powerful than us guys, so women have (in general) a much harder time getting out of system 1 and into system 2. Whereas guys just have a harder time realizing system 1 is even occuring (because it's much more subtle). So basically, women probably realize much earlier that system 1 is occuring. Guys, however, may never be aware system 1 is happening. So women act more ridiculous for shorter periods of time, while guys act slightly ridiculous for long periods of time (ie. I don't have to stop for directions because we aren't lost).
Emilia Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 How do you actually overcome insecurity? cliche but true: by becoming the person you can be proud of. Is it something you just do? sort of, 'training' is a better word Or is it something you must "train" for? you force yourself to be out there. Talk to the opposite sex, see what you expect from you and what you expect from them. Put yourself in challenging situations, when you fail dust yourself down and try again. Is security/insecurity discrete or continuous? mainly continuous with the odd undefined limit Is there a waiting period for obtaining security? yes. You need substantial life experience. Hence the reference to the terrible 20s. Who is the judge of your security? you should always only listen to yourself and those you trust. You will experience neg hits from others. Hope the above helps.
Content Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 had a stretch of horrible luck losing people i loved which made all my insecurities seem trivial and petty
Zed Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 These are valid questions (and an instructive thread) and they are inseparably linked in combating personal and social insecurity. American society is by its structure extroverted and less patient with those who may not be immediately charismatic and “fun”. Thus there are greater challenges for those who are naturally shy, introverted (although you can be introverted and not shy), and sensitive, to navigate social pitfalls successfully without being incessantly insecure about your own personality and esteem As a result, practicing one’s social skills in natural settings and using a series of flooding techniques, is the way to gain a foot hold on insecure thoughts and behaviors. Of course as was discussed in the other thread, validation from others is typically a normal reaction since humans are social and cooperative behaviors is an important component in order to get along with others in society. Therefore, it is important to obtain objective information about ourselves at certain intervals, from others, who are forthright, honest and empathetic, about what we can do to enhance our selves, especially if our behaviors are self destructive. Not being able to do an honest self assessment is something narcissists do, so the fact that you are self aware and seeking answers outside yourself (especially when your thoughts and behaviors keep you stuck) is actually quite normal and healthy. Self awareness and vigilance are the most important components to diffusing naturally insecure reactions and constructing a stronger personal foundation. It’s not an easy journey especially if you have been struggling with self doubt for awhile, so the duration will largely depend on your own goals, what time you are willing to invest, and your own due diligence.
Cee Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 This is a fascinating subject. I'll be brief and try to edit this tightly. This is only my off beat thoughts on the subject. It's possible to develop fundamental security about yourself as a loving, worthy, and whole person. I was pretty damaged as a young adult so it took a good 15 years of living on my own, therapy, and recovery groups to do that. I love and trust myself on a basic level and I am able to cope with stress, negative thoughts, and mistakes and failures. I am fundamentally secure yet I have horrible waves of insecurity. I believe those insecurities are transient and are actually a product of faulty thinking. This is how I cope with insecurity: 1) I treat an insecure thought like an opinion and not a fact. 2) I withdraw from situations and people that generate insecure thoughts. 3) I ask others to help me talk aloud my insecurities. I may solicit feedback, but I do ask not others to validate me. If I seek too much external validation, that undermines my fundamental sense of security. 4) I do not behave in ways contrary to my inner values. 5) I strive to be average. I am not interested in excelling, only to be happy. Lately, I have had horrible insecurity about my worthiness for an LTR. I have actually shed tears over this. But what seems to help is to remind myself that my life is basically good and sound. I need not stir up drama through negative thinking.
denise_xo Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Lately, I have had horrible insecurity about my worthiness for an LTR. I have actually shed tears over this. That's interesting, I have too. Maybe we're going through the same mid life crisis Sorry for this off topic comment. I wrote half a dissertation above so won't add more to the real topic at hand.
january2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 That's interesting, I have too. Maybe we're going through the same mid life crisis Very interesting indeed! I picked up on the same point in Cee's post. Though having come out of an LTR, a long one, I kinda feel like I should be 'grateful' to have had that experience and everything else that is in my future is just gravy. /threadjack
denise_xo Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Very interesting indeed! I picked up on the same point in Cee's post. Though having come out of an LTR, a long one, I kinda feel like I should be 'grateful' to have had that experience and everything else that is in my future is just gravy. /threadjack I moved our threadjack to the off topic thread in the water cooler. Sorry, Hokie
krz12 Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 It seems like there is a high potential for an endless, inescapable loop here. Let's start with the assumption that insecurity will absolutely wreak havoc on whatever you're trying to do. Let's use a non-dating example, such as an athlete; perhaps a basketball player who simply cannot make a shot. He becomes terribly "insecure" about his play, and he consistently fails to perform. As time goes on, he becomes more insecure, and his play gets worse. At what point can he begin to succeed? Does he change by believing and feeling confident that he can make baskets, or does he wait until he gets lucky and begins hitting shots? It's the chicken or the egg...
Author USMCHokie Posted January 22, 2011 Author Posted January 22, 2011 There were a lot of good thoughts and ideas raised, and I want to take the time to address all of them. Unfortunately, I'm a little short on time right now, so it'll have to wait... Of course failure hardens one's character, but doesn't the principle of this commercial assume that one has a baseline of success? Failure would merely be a minor speedbump in life, since Jordan knows he's absolutely capable of success and knows it's simply a matter of time before he returns to that baseline.
dispatch3d Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 There were a lot of good thoughts and ideas raised, and I want to take the time to address all of them. Unfortunately, I'm a little short on time right now, so it'll have to wait... Of course failure hardens one's character, but doesn't the principle of this commercial assume that one has a baseline of success? Failure would merely be a minor speedbump in life, since Jordan knows he's absolutely capable of success and knows it's simply a matter of time before he returns to that baseline. Nah, I think good ol MJ is saying his superior abilities to handle failures is actually the reason he is successful, not the prescence or lack of success to generate more success. Don't get me wrong, the guy definitely has a lot of natural ability, but I'd bet a lot of money that if I handle failure like MJ did I'd be a lot better at ****.
Lovelybird Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Who is the judge of your security? Is it you yourself? Or someone else? Perhaps a stranger? As long as you give the power to others to judge you are insecure or not, you appear weak or insecure. And people will take advantage of your weaknesses no matter they do it consciously or unconsciously Security comes from your understanding of yourself, I guess? If you are sure of yourself no matter what people may say about you, then you are confident
Author USMCHokie Posted January 22, 2011 Author Posted January 22, 2011 Nah, I think good ol MJ is saying his superior abilities to handle failures is actually the reason he is successful, not the prescence or lack of success to generate more success. No, I agree that his ability to handle failure is what made him so special on the court. Even if he missed an important shot, or had a bad game, or did poorly over a stretch of games, he was able to turn that failure into success. However, where does one temper his or her ability to handle and overcome failure? You say that he has superior abilities; but how does one assess their abilities, whether it's on the court or in a social atmosphere? Isn't ability based on success and positive feedback and reinforcement? Jordan would not be good unless he scored points and made key plays for his team day in and day out. His superior abilities were evidenced by his success. Now let's take that into a social context. Wouldn't it be analogous to basketball in that one's sense of their superior ability is dependent on their social success, that is, external feedback and reinforcement?
Author USMCHokie Posted January 22, 2011 Author Posted January 22, 2011 As long as you give the power to others to judge you are insecure or not, you appear weak or insecure. And people will take advantage of your weaknesses no matter they do it consciously or unconsciously Security comes from your understanding of yourself, I guess? If you are sure of yourself no matter what people may say about you, then you are confident So from this response, and a lot of the responses thus far, would it be safe to say that insecurity and security generally stem from external influences? To break it down to the simplest terms, positive feedback creates security while negative feedback creates insecurity?
Star Gazer Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 So from this response, and a lot of the responses thus far, would it be safe to say that insecurity and security generally stem from external influences? To break it down to the simplest terms, positive feedback creates security while negative feedback creates insecurity? Insecurity stems focusing on external influences. I don't think security does. Security comes from within, from a strong sense of self. Thing is, if you rely on external factors to build you up, then it necessarily follows that they can just as easily tear you down. Thus, it would serve everyone to not rely on them to develop a strong sense of self and self-esteem. Secure people are confident in themselves no matter what the external factors may be.
Lovelybird Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 So from this response, and a lot of the responses thus far, would it be safe to say that insecurity and security generally stem from external influences? To break it down to the simplest terms, positive feedback creates security while negative feedback creates insecurity? It is opposite of what I meant. Security comes from within. As long as you depend on others to feed you positives, you are powerless and weak. You are not your own person, you are theirs.
Author USMCHokie Posted January 22, 2011 Author Posted January 22, 2011 Secure people are confident in themselves no matter what the external factors may be. Glad you said this.
Star Gazer Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 It is opposite of what I meant. As long as you depend on others to feed you positives, you are powerless and weak. You are not your own person, you are theirs. Yes, yes, yes! It seems like like the responses in this thread are being twisted in support of a desire to rely on the external.
Star Gazer Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Glad you said this. Don't engage me on this subject, please. I disagree wholeheartedly with your assertions about your security level and its source, and I really don't want to get into another silly argument.
Author USMCHokie Posted January 23, 2011 Author Posted January 23, 2011 It is opposite of what I meant. Security comes from within. As long as you depend on others to feed you positives, you are powerless and weak. You are not your own person, you are theirs. External factors don't necessarily mean exclusively other people, but also feedback that dictates success. To go back to the basketball analogy, seeing the ball go into the basket is an example of external feedback. It's not necessarily someone telling you you're a great or terrible basketball player, but reinforcing your abilities through some sort of external feedback mechanism. Imagine trying to get better at basketball if all you could do is shoot the ball, but you weren't allowed to see whether the ball went in the basket... What result?
Star Gazer Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 External factors don't necessarily mean exclusively other people, but also feedback that dictates success. To go back to the basketball analogy, seeing the ball go into the basket is an example of external feedback. It's not necessarily someone telling you you're a great or terrible basketball player, but reinforcing your abilities through some sort of external feedback mechanism. Poor example. Seeing the ball go through a hoop isn't an external factor or external feedback in this context. That is something the player does/sees him/herself. It is the player, and the player alone. This subject is in the DATING forum. So the answers you're going to receive are in the relationship/dating context. If you want to talk about security/insecurity in the physical sense, or professional sense, or some other sense, this thread should have started off differently in a different place.
Isolde Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 I agree strongly that emotions are continuous and are ALWAYS going to be affected by external factors to a greater or lesser extent. However, I think learning to be humble and not taking life too seriously goes a long way. As humans, we are all so very flawed. Even the best life is full of mistakes, disappointments, awkwardness, sickness, and loss. From that take-a-step-back perspective, it doesn't make sense to let insecurities further limit us.
Star Gazer Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 I agree strongly that emotions are continuous and are ALWAYS going to be affected by external factors to a greater or lesser extent. Sure. But you seem to be equating your emotions with your sense of self/self-esteem/security level. I think they're two entirely different things.
Isolde Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Sure. But you seem to be equating your emotions with your sense of self/self-esteem/security level. I think they're two entirely different things. That's a good point but emotions are inextricably tied to sense of self. It takes a massive amount of self-control to separate the two to any meaningful extent. That being said, I think it is possible but one will still have lapses where emotions get the better of them.
Author USMCHokie Posted January 23, 2011 Author Posted January 23, 2011 Poor example. Seeing the ball go through a hoop isn't an external factor or external feedback in this context. That is something the player does/sees him/herself. It is the player, and the player alone. This subject is in the DATING forum. So the answers you're going to receive are in the relationship/dating context. If you want to talk about security/insecurity in the physical sense, or professional sense, or some other sense, this thread should have started off differently in a different place. Alright, I'll play along. In the relationship/dating context, the playing pieces are other people. They become the ball and the basket, and you as the 'player' observe social interactions just as much as you observe the ball going into the basket. Watching someone's reaction to you on the street, or assessing someone's interaction with you on a date, or analyzing the progression of a relationship is no different from watching the ball go in the hoop. Social interaction inherently must involve people. Staying in the dating realm, let's say you go on a date with someone, but you're on one side of a two way mirror. They can see and hear you, but you can't see or hear them. You have no external feedback at all, and have to rely on what you think internally. What result? It's a very extreme hypo, but I'm just illustrating that external feedback in dating is no different from external feedback in anything else.
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