paddington bear Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Sorry for the long post, but I'm going through a bit of a crisis right now and need help. I moved from my home town to another country 4 years ago, for a wide variety of reasons, one of them being to leave a city where there were 6 women to every one man, and where the women fought over any available man like hyenas over a wildebeest carcass. I thought leaving might increase my chances of actually finding love. How wrong I was. There was the usual settling in period, learning a new language, cultural differences and so on. The love never happened in the last 4 years. Friendzoned. One night stands. A lover. 4 dates in four years, (all those from the Internet). Apart from drunken 22 year olds in clubs (I am now 38) not one man has flirted with me, chatted me up, asked me on a date or shown any kind of interest at all in me whatsoever (oh wait...one did heavily flirt, but then did nothing about it). I have a nice life here in terms of the fact that I have a lovely apartment, I can live relatively cheaply, have amazing, lovely friends here, a nice social life (when I can afford to go out) and feel at home here. On the other side...I've been here nearly 4 years now. I realise with horror that I moved to a city (and country from all accounts) where the men just do not flirt. Every other foreign woman has noticed this, articles in newspapers and so on. (what I'm trying to say is, it is not just my twisted perception). I'm also having a really, really tough time finding a well paid job here. Which has left me in occasional, but severe poverty with great regularity. The stress (and frustration) of that has taken a really bad toll on me, and like the lack of a boyfriend situation, I see that I can live in the deluded hope that I will find enough work, but probably won't. 4 years is enough time to realise that even with the language, and qualifications that you still are not going to be employed no matter what you do and likewise, trying to fit into a culture where men never make any moves on women is just not working out for me. I lived in London briefly on and off. Ah I remember the days of actually being talked to by men, them actually chatting me up. This does not happen ever here. And I miss it. I miss feeling like I'm attractive and desired. Here I simply feel as if I just do not exist. No woman wants to feel as if she is invisible. Kind of hard to project confidence when all evidence points to the fact that you are not worth even talking to. My feelings of self-worth are now at an all time low from all this - both men and money. My two big problems. With 4 years of evidence (and anecdotal evidence from other women who have moved here) regarding the useless, do nothing native men and the fact that although I am highly skilled I cannot get a job here... the question is...should I leave? Having someone to love and to be loved in return is really important to me. Is it crazy to move elsewhere in the hopes that being somewhere more familiar to me in terms of how men and women relate? Or is it just a totally emotional and illogical, stupid idea? If I leave...I give up a lot of really wonderful things here, the best, most supportive friends I've ever had, certainly will give up having a spacious apartment to myself, to be able to have a decent life and meals out, even when on a minuscule income. But I simply cannot be alone forever. I want love just like everyone wants. And I no longer think there is even a remote possibility of that happening here. What do you guys think? Stay or go?
bayouboi Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 where was this utopia u spoke of with the 6:1 f:m ratio where the women fight over dewds? o and i vote go
Jazzari Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Look for a better job in an area you would like to live. If you can find one, then go. The other option might be to look for a man who is not native to your area via online.
Nexus One Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 This might be of use to you: http://tinyurl.com/yku2xr9 Although that data implies you should move to the Middle East to maximize your chances. Not a very woman friendly area in my opinion, the data seems to indirectly support that opinion. Because with all due respect, I think many women simply left that part of the world and moved elsewhere.
Author paddington bear Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 I'm being purposefully vague about origins and current city...just 'cause I'm always paranoid that someone will know it's me! And I've kind of spilled my guts on this forum over the years. I'm thinking of finding the work, subletting the apartment, trying it out, getting a feel, burning no bridges...but I am a Cancerian! I love my home. I like to stay put. The thought of moving again is causing a horrible feeling. But the thought of unending singledom is now tipping the scales somewhat. Don't think I'll be moving to the middle east ...the part of town I'm living in right now might as well be the middle east anyway. I'm in Europe, so the States is out, visa issues and all that (shame, I worked there periodically and liked it a lot).
Nexus One Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 On a non-serious note, taking a better look I see a red spot in Andorra. Tiny country in Europe, but probably has a mix of French-Spanish guys. Could be hot for a woman. Guys like that seem to make Lady Gaga sing Alejandro, Alejandro.
Cee Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I think the struggle to survive financially is sufficient reason to move. If you are going to be single in another country, you need some financial security for your future. I'm over 35 and live in the US. And it's been really difficult for me to get a boyfriend. I'm happy with my single life, but I miss being in love so much. It makes me sad to think about it so I try not to dwell on it too much. I'd move if there was a magical place where emotionally available men over 40 were abundant. But I don't think such a place exists.
Author paddington bear Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 I think the struggle to survive financially is sufficient reason to move. If you are going to be single in another country, you need some financial security for your future. I'm over 35 and live in the US. And it's been really difficult for me to get a boyfriend. I'm happy with my single life, but I miss being in love so much. It makes me sad to think about it so I try not to dwell on it too much. I'd move if there was a magical place where emotionally available men over 40 were abundant. But I don't think such a place exists. Yes, this is what I'm worried about, some kind of grass is greener false notion. However, the financial security is a BIG issue. And for me, impacts on dating. I haven't been able to get my hair done in weeks. I look like hell! My clothes are old and shabby. This week I lived on free food in the crappy job I have because I couldn't afford to buy food. We are talking living under the poverty line at times....it's not good. I keep trying to figure out a way of fixing that situation, but it hasn't happened. Nexus...I'm going to Google Andorra! Hahahaaa. (I did...why doesn't Wikipedia have important stuff like statistics on single available people on there???) Except urgh...I'd have to learn yet another language and I still haven't totally mastered this one yet. Worldwide economic downturn/crisis unemployment all over has not helped matters in the least.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 but I am a Cancerian! Are you sure about this? I understand there's been a recent shift in the Zodiac, and by now you could well be a flamboyant Leo ready to dominate the universe! Or maybe a very flighty Gemini. Check it out!
Nexus One Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 If you're in the Schengen area of Europe you can freely move around quite a bit, because the EU has a treaty that allows one to work anywhere in the EU without too much hassle. http://tinyurl.com/d46buq It should be possible to find a decent job in that big blue area.
jenifer1972 Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I personally would not stay somewhere where I thought I didn't have a snowball's chance of finding someone to share my life with. I would really start beating the bushes for a job in a more desirable area and then go for it if I found one. I wouldn't go anywhere without a job first though. You will never be able to know for sure whether you should go or stay just by trying to reason it out, because none of us is given the benefit of hindsight. But at least increase your odds.
Author paddington bear Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 Nexus, I am in the Schengen area already which doesn't rule Ireland and England out...although Ireland is collapsing economically right now, so that is not a viable option jobwise. Jennifer, yes, thanks for that. And thanks to everyone. It seems like such a big decision. Uprooting myself yet again is really not a nice prospect as a Cancerian (even if, Mme Chaucer, I might in fact now be a gemini...urgh...although actually it might make more sense...) But...snowballs chance in hell of love. That is not good is it? Beating self over head with brick repeatedly. Trying, failing, trying, failing. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses right? Although, I moved here without too much forward planning. If I leave again, no more burning of bridges, softy softly catchy monkey....
jenifer1972 Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 You are funny (sound like Bridget Jones - "beating self over head with brick repeatedly") My ex forced me to move to a city I hated.... Hated every second, and had TERRIBLE luck there . Job sucked, people I met were weird and flaky, everything was "off"...it was surreal...Cut my losses and moved and divorced. Was VERY expensive to me on many levels..but very worth it. Luck totally changed... Life's a risk. Jump!
Author paddington bear Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 You are funny (sound like Bridget Jones - "beating self over head with brick repeatedly") My ex forced me to move to a city I hated.... Hated every second, and had TERRIBLE luck there . Job sucked, people I met were weird and flaky, everything was "off"...it was surreal...Cut my losses and moved and divorced. Was VERY expensive to me on many levels..but very worth it. Luck totally changed... Life's a risk. Jump! Oh REALLY? That is good to know...well, not that you were forced to move to some hellish place that you hated with every fibre of your being, but that when you left that things improved. I'm suffering from 'perhaps it is ME and not the city' doubts right now. But I don't think it is me. I really don't. I fear that if I go, nothing will change. I fear that if I stay nothing will change (dear Lord, perhaps I really am a gemini with attendant split personality traits...) (PS thanks for the Bridgett Jones thing...a book will be written about my crappy experiences here in a hopefully amusing manner...many thousands of words written so far, many thousands to go...and then the editing and eventual 100's of 'no not for us' letters from editors, agents and publishers. until it ends up rejected by everyone (rather like myself) - its inherent value unnoticed and will just gather dust in a drawer. I will tell my non-existent grandchildren (because if I can't get a boyfriend, not gonna have kids) about how I once wrote a book. But, obviously I will in reality, be talking to myself about my unrecognised masterpiece, in a deranged way - due to the lack of grandchildren - while rocking back and forth gently in some mental institution ).
jenifer1972 Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Haha! That is how "Eat, Pray, Love" and "Under the Tuscan Sun" were inspired!
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 (PS thanks for the Bridgett Jones thing...a book will be written about my crappy experiences here in a hopefully amusing manner...many thousands of words written so far, many thousands to go...and then the editing and eventual 100's of 'no not for us' letters from editors, agents and publishers. until it ends up rejected by everyone (rather like myself) - its inherent value unnoticed and will just gather dust in a drawer. I will tell my non-existent grandchildren (because if I can't get a boyfriend, not gonna have kids) about how I once wrote a book. But, obviously I will in reality, be talking to myself about my unrecognised masterpiece, in a deranged way - due to the lack of grandchildren - while rocking back and forth gently in some mental institution ). Paddy, Go for it! If there is somewhere you have always wanted to live... Go. In my hometown you would probably not be able to walk down the street without guys hitting on you. So, I believe some risks are worth taking. Also 38 isn't that old. You still have a lot of gas left in that tank. Keep going and I think you will be shocked at how far you can get.
Stockalone Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 On the other side...I've been here nearly 4 years now. I realise with horror that I moved to a city (and country from all accounts) where the men just do not flirt. Every other foreign woman has noticed this, articles in newspapers and so on. (what I'm trying to say is, it is not just my twisted perception). With 4 years of evidence (and anecdotal evidence from other women who have moved here) regarding the useless, do nothing native men and ... You realize that calling "us" useless isn't going to improve your situation. I guess you have a point, though. I have heard this before, not that we are useless, but that depending on where you are from, the dating scene here can be very different and sometimes frustrating. However, there are plenty of foreigners (you being one of them) who live here. At least in the larger cities, there should be enough foreigners to date if you are unhappy with us natives. Isn't that something you could give a try? Having someone to love and to be loved in return is really important to me. Is it crazy to move elsewhere in the hopes that being somewhere more familiar to me in terms of how men and women relate? Or is it just a totally emotional and illogical, stupid idea? ... What do you guys think? Stay or go? If you can't get a decent job, and are also unhappy with your love life, then you should go. Especially if you believe your situation won't improve if you stay. That said, you should only move after you have secured a job in another country.
Author paddington bear Posted January 22, 2011 Author Posted January 22, 2011 You realize that calling "us" useless isn't going to improve your situation. . I'm sorry. I'm just so frustrated right now. I really am. I don't want to be insulting to anyone. And at the same time to be honest, I feel rather insulted. I'm really not used to being so universally ignored. My rather (angry) attitude right now is more or less "well, if not one of you guys wants me, or has the balls to at least show you want me, then forget it, you are too damn difficult and I give up". Where I come from you go out, you dress up (or not, doesn't matter) you make eye contact, you get talking. Flirting occurs. Numbers are given. Something happens. Here, nope. Different system. One that I have not deciphered at all which has caused a total brain malfunction on my part. I have tried to be more native. Integrate. But that just hasn't worked at all. I just don't get it. There are some subtle things going on here that are way below my radar that I will simply never understand. Men and women get together here 'somehow'. How this happens when no one actually flirts is a total mystery to me. It's not that I hate the natives. I have had crushes on some of the natives. But I'm not sure what the natives are waiting for? Me to bash them over the head with a club and drag them home? I just hate that I can't read the signals here. I'm not part of the native gang who knows how to proceed and I've had enough of it. It's too much like hard work and they have made me feel unattractive and undesirable through no flirting whatsoever. I joined that dating site, and I hate to say it, but one of the draws for me were that there were foreign men on it. I simply thought "great, I can deal with these guys. I know where they are coming from." Man is attracted to woman, he indicates this in an obvious manner through words or actions, woman responds to this. What I'm not used to is: man is attracted to woman, but does absolutely nothing about it. Nothing ever happens. I realise it really isn't good to have gotten a turn against the male species of the country you live in. But I have (but they only have themselves to blame ) I find it puzzling that's all. And 4 years later, I haven't figured out the solution to the puzzle. I dearly wish I could. But I don't think I ever will.
runner Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 i'm guessing the city rhymes with Stockalone ? then yes i suppose the men there can be a bit difficult i'd recommend strokin'happen but i reckon the economy isn't too well there either. lovely city tho.
Stockalone Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 I'm sorry. I'm just so frustrated right now. I really am. I don't want to be insulting to anyone. And at the same time to be honest, I feel rather insulted. I'm really not used to being so universally ignored. My rather (angry) attitude right now is more or less "well, if not one of you guys wants me, or has the balls to at least show you want me, then forget it, you are too damn difficult and I give up". I am sorry, I hadn't noticed your reply the other day. I can understand why you are frustrated. But I have to admit your post made me chuckle a bit as well even if the situation isn't funny. Where I come from you go out, you dress up (or not, doesn't matter) you make eye contact, you get talking. Flirting occurs. Numbers are given. Something happens. Here, nope. Different system. One that I have not deciphered at all which has caused a total brain malfunction on my part. Most people I know met their SO either in school/college, at work or through friends and hobbies. Online dating gets more and more popular as well. Flirting with strangers when you go out is rather rare though, but it happens. I have tried to be more native. Integrate. But that just hasn't worked at all. I just don't get it. There are some subtle things going on here that are way below my radar that I will simply never understand. Men and women get together here 'somehow'. How this happens when no one actually flirts is a total mystery to me. That has been my experience as well. I don't always understand it myself, and I am a native. People do flirt, though, but most likely less (and probably in different ways) than in other countries. It's not that I hate the natives. I have had crushes on some of the natives. But I'm not sure what the natives are waiting for? Me to bash them over the head with a club and drag them home? Do you know them, or are they strangers? That usually makes a difference in how people interact. Also, if you look at how "we" (men and women) interact, do you think that the women here are different as well when it comes to dating? That might play a role as well in how men relate to you. I just hate that I can't read the signals here. I'm not part of the native gang who knows how to proceed and I've had enough of it. It's too much like hard work and they have made me feel unattractive and undesirable through no flirting whatsoever. I think there is generally less small talk here, so that might interfere with the flirting and bantering you like and miss, and are also used to. Just for the record, not being flirted with doesn't mean that guys think you aren't attractive. I joined that dating site, and I hate to say it, but one of the draws for me were that there were foreign men on it. I simply thought "great, I can deal with these guys. I know where they are coming from." Man is attracted to woman, he indicates this in an obvious manner through words or actions, woman responds to this. Just continue with online dating. I think that online dating gives guys who would usually not flirt all that much, the green light to be more flirty around you. What I'm not used to is: man is attracted to woman, but does absolutely nothing about it. Nothing ever happens. People get together all the time, so something IS happening. If a guy does absolutely nothing, he will remain single. I realise it really isn't good to have gotten a turn against the male species of the country you live in. But I have (but they only have themselves to blame ) It's our secret master plan. We ignore you (women) long enough until you are at your wits' end. Then, years after initiating that plan, we will make our move and by that time, a simple coffee date will sound like the most romatic thing ever. No woman will ever say no to us, no matter how ugly or stupid we are. So far, it's not working, but you have to admit, that is an ingenious plan in theory. Don't tell the others I spilled the beans... I'll deny everything. Honestly, I have no idea why things aren't working out for you. It's probably a combination of many things, like it is for most people. I find it puzzling that's all. And 4 years later, I haven't figured out the solution to the puzzle. I dearly wish I could. But I don't think I ever will. What do your native friends think, especially the women?
jane100 Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Sounds like you want to move. Sounds like you haven't got much keeping you there. I'm not going to second-guess where you are, but it sounds a weird place, or possibly very family-oriented/conservative. P.S. Truly, do you think the men in London are so friendly, yikes . P.S.2 I agree 38 is young enough to still move and start again .
zengirl Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 I'm not honestly sure what you should do. I can share my own experiences and perspectives. I've lived abroad many times. I had a GREAT job lined up abroad, where I was already living. Like, my dream job. I decided to come back to the U.S. instead. Why? The relationships I wanted --- even though I had better luck than you (met great men, decent LTRs, just marriage was always going to be a visa barrier/transient nature of jobs there/etc) --- weren't nearly as possible where I was as they are here. I was talking to my now-BF before I ever came back, but I didn't meet him till I'd already made the decision to come home (I made the decision about 5 months before I did and "met" him online 3 months before). He's a guy I could marry. In the 2 years I was in Asia, I never really met a guy I could marry. In the years before that, in the U.S., I was never ready to meet a guy I could marry. I dated a few, but it wasn't the time. Once I was ready, I knew I had to get back to the U.S. I don't know why. I mean, there are guys I could marry in other places; I just felt like with my own work/visa issues there was no place that lined up as well with married-minded men that I could work in easily. So, it was a big part of why I moved back. And I'm not someone who needs a BF at all times or someone who was desperate. . . just someone who wanted a change and had priorities, including future relationships, on my mind.
Knittress Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 I'll probably be you someday, if it makes you feel any better. I want to get married and have kids, yet am planning on spending the last of my late-20s and early 30s in asia, where nobody is going to hit on a curvy caucasian giant like myself. :>/ Dooooooom. Feel better? :>)
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