Have to Laugh.... Too obvious.... Yet one will never listen....

January 21, 2011

Read on another thread on what a spouse should do to fall in love with their spouse again.....

Have a lot of sex, even if you aren't feeling it at first.

Fake it til you make it.

Oxytocin will be released in your body during orgasm, just like it happens during breast feeding. It bonds us to our partner in a powerful chemical way. Anthropoligist Helen Fisher has many discussions about this here: http://www.ted.com/search?q=Helen+Fisher

Once that happens, loving him will be natural and will not feel like an effort anymore.

Sorry how many of us wanting more sex, have tried this line (or similar) after what we considered was "good sex", only to go back to square one (i.e. counting the days between sex and wondering why)......

January 21, 2011

Counting days?

More like weeks. LOL!

Not working for my W.

January 21, 2011

Read on another thread on what a spouse should do to fall in love with their spouse again.....

Have a lot of sex, even if you aren't feeling it at first.

Fake it til you make it.

Oxytocin will be released in your body during orgasm, just like it happens during breast feeding. It bonds us to our partner in a powerful chemical way. Anthropoligist Helen Fisher has many discussions about this here: http://www.ted.com/search?q=Helen+Fisher

Once that happens, loving him will be natural and will not feel like an effort anymore.

Sorry how many of us wanting more sex, have tried this line (or similar) after what we considered was "good sex", only to go back to square one (i.e. counting the days between sex and wondering why)......

Because the motivation to have sex, when not feeling like it, has to come from somewhere, and had to be strong. Going into sex when you don't feel like having sex can be awkward initially, even if it soon becomes comfortable and pleasurable. It also involves a bit of risk ("What if I don't get into it? What if I can't perform/orgasm/etc?").

Also, there may be some daily irritations with the partner to push past, which can melt away if you manage to push past them and connect physically. It is a vicious cycle that the one thing that can bring you closer is also the one thing you don't want to do when you are irritated with someone.

So there has to be a strong enough motivation to push through the "unpleasantness".

January 21, 2011

Most males will tell you that each and every time they have sex it is "good" (well at least 90% of the time)..... They are then left wondering if it is good, why not more? Then you have experts explaining released oxytocin, should help.....

Ah if it was so simple......

Heck I'm cranky..... You tell women that there is a female viagra and it has past all clinical tests to enhance libido, I bet you most women would not touch it (as opposed to men who do flock to viagra).....

Edited January 21, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

January 21, 2011

Most males will tell you that each and every time they have sex it is "good" (well at least 90% of the time)..... They are then left wondering if it is good, why not more? Then you have experts explaining released oxytocin, should help.....

Ah if it was so simple......

Heck I'm cranky..... You tell women that there is a female viagra and it has past all clinical tests to enhance libido, I bet you most women would not touch it (as opposed to men who do flock to viagra).....

Are you really asking, or just venting?

I'm beginning to think we can "count the days" with you based on posts of this nature

Bottom line, she needs to WANT the orgasm more than she WANTs to sleep, read, feed an internet addiction, avoid touching the partner, or whatever the case may be. Orgasm might be great, but she isn't motivated to do things that lead to orgasm when her libido is low....or when she is just more motivated to do other things.

January 21, 2011

Are you really asking, or just venting?

I'm beginning to think we can "count the days" with you based on posts of this nature

Bottom line, she needs to WANT the orgasm more than she WANTs to sleep, read, feed an internet addiction, avoid touching the partner, or whatever the case may be. Orgasm might be great, but she isn't motivated to do things that lead to orgasm when her libido is low....or when she is just more motivated to do other things.

I haven't had a post like this in at least 2 months (I think?).....

But again we are talking something that generally takes less then 30 minutes (and please no bragging about one's 4 hour marathons)...... And remember you are making two people happy...... At least that's the plan;)....

January 21, 2011

You tell women that there is a female viagra and it has past all clinical tests to enhance libido, I bet you most women would not touch it (as opposed to men who do flock to viagra).....

You may be cranky, but this is an interesting point.

I don’t understand why people need Viagra. If your body is telling you that you don’t want it, why do you need to swallow (potentially damaging) chemicals to trick it to think otherwise?

It’s like you had a piece of cake, you don’t need another one, but you take a pill to make you want and eat another one. Doesn’t make sense to me at all.

January 22, 2011

Ahhh, i too laughed out loud at that post. I would try that with my H but you cant force someone to have lots of sex, especially when he, pardon the bluntness, cant keep it up. And puhlease, i cant force him to take viagra either, although he says he wants to. Talk is cheap, right? If I could have lots of (good) sex with my H, I would be!!!! honest!!! OMG if life were so freaking simple!!! aaaaaaaaaaaghhhhhh

Im cranky too TDP

Iz

January 22, 2011

Because the motivation to have sex, when not feeling like it, has to come from somewhere, and had to be strong. Going into sex when you don't feel like having sex can be awkward initially, even if it soon becomes comfortable and pleasurable. It also involves a bit of risk ("What if I don't get into it? What if I can't perform/orgasm/etc?").

Also, there may be some daily irritations with the partner to push past, which can melt away if you manage to push past them and connect physically. It is a vicious cycle that the one thing that can bring you closer is also the one thing you don't want to do when you are irritated with someone.

So there has to be a strong enough motivation to push through the "unpleasantness".

This is essentially the same thought process that says although exercise and fitness feels like torture, if you just do it you will start to feel good and suddenly one day everything will be roses and endorphins, and you'll wonder what the fuss was about.

And guess what? It's a crock in this case too! I'm not going to say it never works, but the purveyors of this sort of "just do it" psychology are very poor at admitting that it does NOT work for everyone.

The end result, the "why" has to be strong enough to overcome the wish to avoid the unpleasantness / lack of short-term gain. Unless when someone "just does it" it starts to pay dividends pretty damn quickly, there is a good chance the programme gets abandoned - just like exercise plans / diets that don't show short-term gain. Unless you have a strong commitment to the final goal anyway, it probably won't help.

January 22, 2011

This is essentially the same thought process that says although exercise and fitness feels like torture, if you just do it you will start to feel good and suddenly one day everything will be roses and endorphins, and you'll wonder what the fuss was about.

And guess what? It's a crock in this case too! I'm not going to say it never works, but the purveyors of this sort of "just do it" psychology are very poor at admitting that it does NOT work for everyone.

The end result, the "why" has to be strong enough to overcome the wish to avoid the unpleasantness / lack of short-term gain. Unless when someone "just does it" it starts to pay dividends pretty damn quickly, there is a good chance the programme gets abandoned - just like exercise plans / diets that don't show short-term gain. Unless you have a strong commitment to the final goal anyway, it probably won't help.

Am I fitter? Am I doing the right exercises? Maybe not, but I am not worse off and certainly feel better.... The same goes with sex..... It helps maintain the bond and my love does not decrease afterwards.....

To see results from exercise (forget diet), you need to do it 5-7 X's a week an hour minimum.... Heck I promise you I want less sex and for shorter times then that....:laugh:

January 22, 2011

Am I fitter? Am I doing the right exercises? Maybe not, but I am not worse off and certainly feel better.... The same goes with sex..... It helps maintain the bond and my love does not decrease afterwards.....

To see results from exercise (forget diet), you need to do it 5-7 X's a week an hour minimum.... Heck I promise you I want less sex and for shorter times then that....:laugh:

I hate to state the obvious TDP, but as it's your wife who's struggling to maintain an interest in sex I don't think the results you are getting or how good you think the sex might be is actually relevant here.

HV makes a very valid point -it's about the final goal. So what is your wife's goal when it comes to sex or intimacy? She is the one who needs to find motivation and a reason to keep at it. Maybe if she's able to tell you what she really wants ie something that's so good she wants to repeat it, just as you do, then maybe that will make a difference.

Of course, if she refuses to talk to you about it or share her true desires then you're stuffed!

Edited January 22, 2011 by LittleTiger

January 22, 2011

This is essentially the same thought process that says although exercise and fitness feels like torture, if you just do it you will start to feel good and suddenly one day everything will be roses and endorphins, and you'll wonder what the fuss was about.

And guess what? It's a crock in this case too! I'm not going to say it never works, but the purveyors of this sort of "just do it" psychology are very poor at admitting that it does NOT work for everyone.

I doesn't work for everyone. But it works really well for a lot people. That doesn't make it a crock.

I haven't had a post like this in at least 2 months (I think?).....

I'd assumed the sex was fairly frequent for 2 months

But again we are talking something that generally takes less then 30 minutes (and please no bragging about one's 4 hour marathons)...... And remember you are making two people happy...... At least that's the plan;)....

Pleasing your partner is another possible motivation, but not a guaranteed motivation. Don't get me wrong...it should be a huge motivation, and it is a motivation for me....but reality is that some are more motivated to sleep, read, feed and addiction, avoid touching their partner, etc.

January 22, 2011

You tell women that there is a female viagra and it has past all clinical tests to enhance libido, I bet you most women would not touch it (as opposed to men who do flock to viagra).....

You tell men that there is a male hormonal contraception and it has passed all clinical tests to kill sperm, I bet you most men would not touch it (as opposed to women who take the pill voluntarily)...

January 22, 2011

You tell men that there is a male hormonal contraception and it has passed all clinical tests to kill sperm, I bet you most men would not touch it (as opposed to women who take the pill voluntarily)...

have a vasectomy and really don't understand the point.... Unless you are saying to the man to take the pill or you won't have sex, in which case I am sure many men would take it.....

January 22, 2011

I doesn't work for everyone. But it works really well for a lot people. That doesn't make it a crock.

The crock is the assumption that it always works, every time for every person, under every circumstance. "Just do it and it'll come right" is so simplistic as to be laughable.

January 22, 2011

The crock is the assumption that it always works, every time for every person, under every circumstance. "Just do it and it'll come right" is so simplistic as to be laughable.

I agree. That would be like insisting that exercise will give make a person with cancer feel great and energetic. Of course it won't work for every circumstance.

But when women give this advice to other women, it is often because it is something we've found personally works for us.

TDP, are you pointing out that "fake it til you make it" doesn't work, or that some women aren't willing to try it? (or something else....or nothing at all )

January 22, 2011

TDP,

Before you choose to perceive this post in a negative light I would like you to think about something. The reason I often respond to your posts is that in some very key ways you and I are the same. Like you - I prefer a high degree of relationship stability, very much prefer spending my free time with my W and dislike "real" conflict with her as it is both painful and sometimes scary.

That said I have accepted that she will not tolerate:

- a low conflict marriage

- any sign of me being clingy/needy emotionally

- too much "sweetness"

The "1 - 2" year period in which I tried to create "my" ideal emotional environment were a train wreck. Sexually, emotionally and ultimately even in terms of stability.

We all make tradeoffs. Perhaps you should consider those that you have chosen. It sure seems like you have elected to prioritize emotional intimacy, spending quality time together and relationship stability over passion. NOT your passion. Her passion. You are able to be super close to her emotionally and spend most of your free time with her AND avoid conflict escalations that might destabilize the relationship. And there is nothing wrong with that. Except that it is part/most of what suppresses/kills her passion.

The sad thing about your "compromise" is that it seems to create "chronic" stress for you. Ultimately that will take a toll in terms of health/longevity.

Am I fitter? Am I doing the right exercises? Maybe not, but I am not worse off and certainly feel better.... The same goes with sex..... It helps maintain the bond and my love does not decrease afterwards.....

To see results from exercise (forget diet), you need to do it 5-7 X's a week an hour minimum.... Heck I promise you I want less sex and for shorter times then that....:laugh:

January 22, 2011

I agree. That would be like insisting that exercise will give make a person with cancer feel great and energetic. Of course it won't work for every circumstance.

But when women give this advice to other women, it is often because it is something we've found personally works for us.

TDP, are you pointing out that "fake it til you make it" doesn't work, or that some women aren't willing to try it? (or something else....or nothing at all )

We have already confirmed that most men who have come here "complaining" about lack of sex invariably note that sex when they have it is pleasurable for both and she reaches orgasm (I know an old argument on my part). But then the spouse doesn't want to do it often at all and we are left scratching our heads..... Again in my utopian world I am using the example of the woman who wants it 1X/mth and the male 1-2X/wk at least and again not marathon sessions. This I consider very minimal desires. I will tell you if the spouse told the other to take a pill (approved and tested) 2 hours prior to sex (i.e. viagra) and sex will be good like it always is with the added bonus that you will want it...... I bet you most women would say no.

January 22, 2011

I think libido and orgasm are two different things for women. I love orgasms, but, honestly, my libido is more based on other things, rather than the potential orgasm.

I actually orgasm fairly easily, and almost always have a pretty intense one when I have sex. Not sure if I would if I had sex when I wasn't into it, but I've never had sex under those conditions. (Not to be graphic, but not sure I physically could in all cases. The fact is, it only lubricates and 'opens up' all the way when I'm in the mood.)

The truth is, my libido is more based on (a) My feelings in general, (b) My feelings about the guy at the time/overall, © My energy level, (d) Other factors like alcohol, activities, etc, and I will say my BC pills actually decrease my libido a good deal, ironically (I'm young and mine is high, so it's no big deal, but I imagine medications might factor in more when you're older). It doesn't really take me 30 minutes to have sex, if you factor in the time it takes to get in the mood -- if I'm not -- and yes, I will consciously take the time to build a relationship with a partner that keeps me in the mood, but I'm not surprised that time falls off as a couple is together for a long time. That's not to say, I don't think it's important to feed into it, but to act like a woman's libido is the same as a man's -- or that just laying back and having sex when you don't want to would build desire for sex -- is a bit off-base, I'd say.

First would be to work through the blocks (both in life and with your partner) that inhibit the libido. Next would be to build in activites/events/moods that promote higher libidos. Time, energy, and affection are definitely required to maintain a strong sex life, I think.

Also, note: female orgasms definitely come in varying degrees, and some women fake, or even fake to themselves (Sure, that felt good, it was an orgasm, but it wasn't an ORGASM! if you know what I mean) to a degree.

January 22, 2011

We have already confirmed that most men who have come here "complaining" about lack of sex invariably note that sex when they have it is pleasurable for both and she reaches orgasm (I know an old argument on my part). But then the spouse doesn't want to do it often at all and we are left scratching our heads..... Again in my utopian world I am using the example of the woman who wants it 1X/mth and the male 1-2X/wk at least and again not marathon sessions. This I consider very minimal desires. I will tell you if the spouse told the other to take a pill (approved and tested) 2 hours prior to sex (i.e. viagra) and sex will be good like it always is with the added bonus that you will want it...... I bet you most women would say no.

TDP, I don't know the ins and outs of your sex life (no pun intended ) or that of any other sexually frustrated person on this forum, but what makes you so sure that what you're talking about 'is pleasurable for both'? Just because she says it was good and she maybe even reaches orgasm, or pretends to (yes it happens A LOT!) that doesn't mean she necessarily enjoyed the experience. Women are very good at faking things, especially when they love their partner and don't want to disappoint him.

Going back to what HV said earlier, your goal ie orgasm (for most men), which makes sex addictive to you, may not be the same as her goal. For me personally, one orgasm, or even several, is not enough to make me want more sex with my man. I don't need a man to have an orgasm. What I need a man for is love and physical affection.

Some of you will have picked up that I have a high sex drive (I'm 46 and it's higher now than it's ever been). I love sex - with the right person of course. My current sex life is fantastic and I want it as often as possible. I enjoy pretty much everything about sex BUT orgasms are not the final goal - not for me anyway. What I want most from sexual contact is the feeling of intimacy. I want to be touched, stroked and massaged so that I feel loved, adored and cherised. That is way more important to me than an orgasm.

In my experience, I feel more bonded to my man when he strokes me lovingly without a specific intent to arouse, than I do from him helping me reach orgasm - oxytocin release or not! I probably feel more bonded to him when he has an orgasm than when I do. If he loves me (physically) the way I want to be loved, he can pretty much have sex with me whenever he wants and he can have as many orgasms as he can cope with.

Now, maybe I'm unique in this, but I suspect not. I think more women would continue to be interested in sex if they genuinely felt they were getting what they really wanted from it.

Regarding viagra for women - how keen do you think men would be to take it if it increased their libido but then they found they still couldn't reach their final goal (orgasm)? How frustrating do you think it might be for a woman to suddenly find herself wanting sex but still dissatisfied with the sex on offer?

I honestly believe that, in many cases (though obviously not all), if a man can discover what his woman really wants from their physical relationship he will get many opportunities to practise giving it to her - and then, miraculously, he'll find that the more she gets the more she wants.

Edited January 22, 2011 by LittleTiger

January 23, 2011

It sure seems like you have elected to prioritize emotional intimacy, spending quality time together and relationship stability over passion. NOT your passion. Her passion.

This is incredibly insightful. If you want to have sex with your wife, make her desire you. (I can have three or four orgasms in a matter of five minutes by myself. I don't need a man for orgasms.)

How to make her desire you? I can't tell you that. But her actions can. She might tell you it's listening to her when she talks, doing chores, taking her on dates. It isn't that. Those are just things you need to do to keep from pissing her off. If she's pissed off, she probably won't be horny. But you need to dig deeper than that to turn her on. Pay attention to when she acts excited and aroused.

January 23, 2011

But you need to dig deeper than that to turn her on. Pay attention to when she acts excited and aroused.

Now this is exactly why it's so difficult for men. The problem is that 'paying attention' is not enough and can lead to misunderstandings precisely because women, especially women who have lost interest in sex, are not honest with themselves or their partners about what creates and fuels their desire. More often than not, they don't know.

My man and I have discussed this and I've agreed to always tell him straight out what I like and what I want. He doesn't have to guess or try to work it out or wait for my 'ooohs' and 'aaahs'. It's the same when he cooks a new dish for me, or when he first learned how I like my coffee. I didn't say, 'thanks that's great' if it was too strong or needed more milk. I said exactly how I liked it and now, when it's his turn to make the drinks, I get a perfect cup of coffee!

I know, from my own past experience and from talking to my girlfriends, that most people don't communicate in this way BUT the experts aren't wrong when they say great sex starts with great communication outside the bedroom.

I don't pretend for a minute that it's easy to open up like this and there's little you can do if your partner isn't willing - which seems to be the case for many frustrated LS posters. However, the advice being laughed at in the OP was, if I remember correctly, given to a woman who had lost interest/fallen out of love NOT to a man who wasn't getting enough. As such it was, I think, pretty good advice.

If this woman is also able to communicate her feelings and her physical needs very clearly to her partner and he is prepared to listen and act on what she says, I think it's a good bet that the love and desire will return.

January 23, 2011

After all this debating (even Mem reappeared!), I've come to the conclusion that for some women sex is not that important. My wife prefers reading in bed to sex with me. Fair enough. But don't be surprised when husbands then distance themselves too and start having a "parallel" life (other interests, outside the family) or even fall out of love with their partners. I would never want my wife to have sex with me if she didn't feel like it. Unfortunately, she often feels like not having sex. I've come to accept it, but at a cost. She used to tell me I wasn't involved enough in family life and I used to reply it was because there was no connection between us and I didn't feel like we were a family. The usual vicious circle. When I got more involved in family life, our relationship - sexwise - didn't change one iota.

I think TDP should accept her wife as she is. Obviously, for her sex is not that important, regardless of how many orgasms she gets. Reaching the orgasm phase takes too much effort in general, so she'd rather do something else. Like my wife. Having said that, I find this behaviour rather selfish, especially when you know that your husband is a bit desperate for it. Basically, it's putting your needs always before your husband's. I find all this talk about how to get your wife to desire you again utter bull. She is never going to desire you again like she used to. Let's face it: sex dies in long term relationships. My best friend had a baby almost two years ago (after 1 year together with his partner) and is already hinting at his poor sex life...

January 23, 2011

I find all this talk about how to get your wife to desire you again utter bull. She is never going to desire you again like she used to. Let's face it: sex dies in long term relationships.

You may be right giotto, but I honestly don't think it's always the case and, in some instances at least, I believe it is a solvable problem.

I was with my exH for 14 years and apparently, early in our relationship, I told him I wasn't that interested in sex . If I said that, which I guess I did, I wasn't being entirely honest - I've had a high sex drive since I was knee high to a brick. What I probably meant was I wasn't that interested in sex with him - at that point in time.

My desire for him waxed and waned throughout our relationship. I always loved him, and even at the end of our marriage, during the occasional times that we were getting along, I still felt a strong desire to be with him sexually - it was all about emotion and intimacy. When we were close I wanted him badly, when we weren't I had zero interest. Just as you say men fall out of love when their wives refuse sex, women will usually be full of desire for a man they still deeply love.

For the record I personally think it's cruel in a monogamous relationship for either partner to deny the other sex on a reasonably regular basis. How can a woman (or man) profess to love their partner and then be so selfish? That makes no sense to me. Even if a woman can't cope with intercourse too often, there are other ways to satisfy a man.

I could be talking complete BS of course . I may hit the menopause in a few years and lose interest in sex completely - but hell, I really hope not..... and I hope my man doesn't give up on trying to persuade me either.

If we're all still hanging about on LS then I'll report back in 10 years and let you know.

January 23, 2011

and mem's comments utter bull.... This game that mem and his wife have perfected works for him, but is not transferable in the vast majority of cases, though I am sure if he writes a book about it, it will do wonderfully....

There is no magic pill that will transform our wives..... And again I want to note that my sex life is not bad (not bragging just stating), that it is just not where I want it to be.

As for it being tough to reach orgasm, I don't know how 20-30 minutes max is difficult, but then I am a man.... And doesn't the physical intimacy count for something?

Yes my wife does not need me for her orgasms (as per another post), but in a loving relationship, it counts for something.

BTW my wife is going through the "change" (late 40's), so I do cut her slack (like I did during the young children and mommy mode stage).

The other point I made about if a pill being available is still up for discussion, as I bet most women wouldn't care enough to take it (or to say it a better way, sales would no where near approaching that of viagra/cialis....).

The original reason for the thread was that I found the "supposed answer/cure" to how to fall in love or have more sex funny and know a few of us here who find the simplistic recommendation/answer in the OP hilarious.

Edited January 23, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

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