Charles067 Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Been married since 2004. Me and the ex have three beautiful kids (Boy 5, and girls 3 & 2). She says to me in November, she wants to get a divorce. We've been living together since then, which has been hellish, but we have to for financial reasons and b/c we both love being around the kids. Backstory as to what brought on her wanting the divorce: We've had problems in the past b/c my stbx has historically been a control freak and sometimes displays tendencies of someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (during arguments that she starts she likes to name-call, belittle, use swear-words, and gaslight, etc.). She makes about $90k a year and I make $50k, which she thinks makes her better than me - she implies this about every 3-4 months or so. Of course yes, she controls the finances - I don't personally mind that she makes more, but she kind of uses it as another way to control me and the household. For example she puts up a front about 'asking me permission' for large purchases, but throws a fit if I disagree, etc. This led to us having sexual issues, which she blamed on me of course. She'd say that I should have an instant erection right when I walk into the bedroom, basically (she seriously would say this). I'd say well every woman I've ever been with in a healthy sexual relationship, we'd have foreplay. She thought taking 30-90 seconds for me to get erect during sex was too long to wait. She even criticized me for kissing too wet and she never really reached out to me, to cuddle, caress, or show any sign of tenderness like a normal person does. When we actually did get to the sex part, it would actually be good, but those occasions became less and less because her expectations started to weigh on me and I lost interest b/c she was so damn hard to please. On top of that, we've had three kids under 5 years old for a while and two full-time jobs, which can be a real energy drain. Anyways, regardless of the fact I know this isn't a healthy marriage, I was devastated when she announced that she wanted to divorce me in November. Yet I did what anyone in my situation would do - I started to get free attorney consultations. Like, a lot of 'em. I now have about 6+ hours of free legal advice under my belt and am close to ready to hire an attorney. We had a big discussion in early January. She kind of wants me to stick around for a while b/c we're underwater on our mortgage (balances are about $30k more than the home value) and the question of what to do with the property is all tied into the financial aspect of things. It's also convenient for her to have me around while the kids are this young. She wants me around for the convenience of helping to parent them until the youngest one is ready for Kindergarten. Around early December, I was checking on IE Explorer history and saw that she did a search on someone's name. Further research showed me that this guy was someone she works with. It drove me nuts, so I asked her, "who is this guy?" and she said it was "just a friend" she works with, who'd been through his own divorce a year ago and they were just talking, etc. She then asked in that same discussion if I would give her permission to date other people before our divorce was finalized. This was on a Friday night and she wanted an answer by the next day. I confided in a good friend, who basically said "It really sucks, but she's probably gonna cheat anyways so you might as well say yes." So I was like, screw it, I told her to go ahead. I said, "so even though you say you're just friends, would you be interested if he wanted more?" and she said, "Well yeah, I guess I wouldn't turn it down." She even went on to say, "well I just want you to know, I'll be honest with you, I'm going to go to happy hour with him on Friday." I brought it up one more time after that (said something like "now that you're seeing someone...") and she got super-defensive. It's just unbelievable since then. She is seriously angry that I've fully prepared myself for what's next by visiting with attorneys. She got pissed off that I wanted joint physical custody (we've completely been 50/50 parents this whole time!) & acted like I was coming between a mama bear & her cubs, acting as if my right to continue as a 50/50 partner was selfish on my part. She tried making me out to be the bad guy! Lately she's been picking fights with me and dredging up past issues ("you never knew how to love," "there was never any foundation between us sexually," etc.) and telling me I shouldn't get an attorney because 'we were going to split the costs of the divorce' (which is something I never agreed to; I told her I'd pay for the attorney WITH MY OWN MONEY). She's still trying to pull this crap about how our finances are jointly-shared, etc. the credit card I'm gonna use to pay the attorney is in my name only btw. She also has been kind of flaunting this affair (emotional or sexual, I have no idea, but it's probably both) in my face a little bit. She won't actually say anything, but here's what happened the last few days: 1. I went out of town with buddies over last weekend. She scheduled a babysitter for both Fri & Sat (Friday was for the happy hour with the dude, the other night she told me later she 'went to work' on Saturday night - yeah, right). 2. I came home this afternoon. She & the kids were there. I opened up the laptop we share; her gmail account was open and I peeked real quickly- she'd had eight e-mails with the guy (in one of them part of her reply said "it was very thoughtful of you to..." and then I couldn't read the rest of it). Anyways I closed the tabs right away, but it was clear there were a lot of e-mails here. 3. Curiousity got the best of me again, so I looked on IE Explorer history (I've really gotta stop doing this, don't I?) - she'd actually mapquested directions to his house. Part of me thinks she's doing this blatantly b/c she knows I'm looking at the history; she says she doesn't know how to delete it, but come on, most adults can figure it out. All of this behavior is really gross and icky. On top of everything else, she has about 2-3 alcoholic drinks per night after getting home from work (she's a mean, nasty drunk on vodka, a bit nicer on the wine). She also hasn't done hardly any work on the actual divorce process - she's finally going to meet with an attorney for a free consult for the FIRST time tomorrow. One day she flips out on me 'cause I want joint physical, a couple days later she acts all nice & agreeable about it, a couple days later she goes back to flipping out... and so-on. One day she says, "You can't get an attorney, it will double our costs of the divorce" and then two nights ago she says, "Go ahead and get an attorney! I'll agree to anything you want; I just want to get out of this marriage, I don't care what it takes." She says I'm selfish about the kids and makes vague threats like, "You do whatever you want custody-wise... the kids will know someday what happened." A weird, vague yet psychotic kind of threat. How the hell am I supposed to co-parent in the future with someone like this? I was even being pro-active today at work, getting the ball rolling for our son to enroll in kindergarten. My wife has claimed she'll take care of it, but she hasn't done crap about it, and deadlines are coming and going w/o her taking action. She e-mailed me today asking, "wow how do you have time to do this? I'm so swamped..." She claims to be a caring mom, and I've actually seen her be just that quite often in the past (I don't really question her love for them), but lately she hasn't even acted super-close with them. She just shuttles them around and it's like a chore for her & she doesn't even really enjoy herself when she's around them - but you know, she's "the mom" so I'm supposed to believe it's all good. I wanted to work on a collaborative divorce. She said she wants to do mediation. We can't communicate at all and can't even agree on how to divorce! I started out wanting joint phys, but now I even wonder about that. Should I bring up the alcohol and the affair? Can you even do that effectively in a mediation case? My main worry is about her being with the children with this kind of behavior. She must think that she'll level off once the divorce is final, but who would trust a mom who couldn't wait till the divorce was final to jump into another relationship (even if just sexual) and who drinks like that every night and has these kinds of behaviors? I truly worry about the example being set for our young children. Edited January 21, 2011 by Charles067
Author Charles067 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 As a side note, I kind of realize that she probably wants to "be caught" with more evidence. I haven't said anything to her about the OM the last few days, but she seems to like drama, so is probably sort of wanting me to bring it up so we can have another big argument. I also realize it's probably not healthy for me to do this internet-snooping. It's not helping me move away from this emotionally. I could also compromise my own position once we go to the divorce case if I keep doing it, probably. Part of me feels ashamed about snooping/"violating privacy," but the part of me that's pissed off that she'd do this while a divorce with children was pending really ends up taking over. Doesn't she realize you should probably negotiate in good faith during a divorce process, since you'll be parents with the other person the rest of your lives? I trust that some of you readers here can help me with the psychoanalysis, maybe help me see something I'm not seeing. I fully get that she wants me to be miserable, maybe a vindictive way of getting revenge or something for how she thinks I've wronged her. (All I've done is try to be a good husband and father, honestly). I could start dating someone too, an ex-girlfriend from a long time ago who seems to really like me, but I at least wanted to wait till the ink was dry. If I did this, it would only add to the drama (which my stbx clearly feeds on) and wouldn't be fair to the kids, either. Man, I've never been up against something like this in my life. I'm really happy that I've prepared with the attorneys and she's very much behind the eight-ball there. But I also am trying to realize you have to be cooperative to some extent with an ex-spouse you have kids with. This divorce is only taking place in the theater of her own mind. She claims that I'm "not living in reality." Are you f%#!g kidding me?
2.50 a gallon Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 She sounds like a real nut job. Cover your *ss. Journal every little detail. Also get yourself a Voice Activated Recorder and record your converstations. Do not argue with her. Be especially leary of her trying to start a fight with you and calling the cops, when you get out of the pokey you will find that you can no longer get near the house, but still have to pay the bills. Wifes have been known to set up their H's and get them thrown out of the house on trumped up charges.
foamy2001 Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 I would just get everything started. If you can afford to file, I would do it. Forget waiting around for her to figure things out financially. Get a lawyer and protect yourself. I've been divorced twice now (still hurts every time I say it.) The first wife told me I was never going to see my son again and how I was a terrible person. I went to see a lawyer and put things in the courts hands immediately. Once it becomes real - as in, courts are involved real - everything will change. Pretty soon, this new romance will start to fade as the new guy catches on to how nuts she is, and that will change her too. At this point, my main concern would be protecting myself. Do what is best for your kids and you. She is no longer a priority. Also, leave the snooping behind. The only time it is good is to know if something is going on. You know that, now get on with the healing. It will take time, but you have found a great support system with this site. Good luck. I sure don't envy your situation.
blasteroid Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 it's a sad state of affairs when they start using the kids but it IS their ace card, or so they think. I've had it, texts in the night saying the kids don't wanna see me again, i've told them what you are? whatever that means. Time to get out my friend, i know it's easier said than done, but you had a life before, and you'll have a life again, with your kids in it.
Author Charles067 Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 Wow, many thanks guys. I am thankful to have a great support system in my life between my mom, my good friends, and my boss and co-workers. I've also been seeing a counselor to check in every couple of weeks, which is helpful. Visiting this board has all been extremely helpful too and I thank you for your input. It's great to get feedback from people who have been down that road or know someone close to them who has. I'll repay the favor in replying to others' posts, as I see how important this communication is. Good to be reminded too that through all of this, I'm still who I am, which really is a decent person who wants to do right and at least I can hold my head up high knowing that.
fltc Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 As a side note, I kind of realize that she probably wants to "be caught" with more evidence. I haven't said anything to her about the OM the last few days, but she seems to like drama, so is probably sort of wanting me to bring it up so we can have another big argument. I think she's bragging. I think she considered your sexual issues as you thinking she wasn't attractive to you, I wonder if her actions now are to rub your nose in the idea that someone else does find her attractive?
hopesndreams Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 but who would trust a mom who couldn't wait till the divorce was final to jump into another relationship (even if just sexual) and who drinks like that every night and has these kinds of behaviors? Too many to count. She sounds like the ideal woman for insecure, emotionally unstable and commitment phobic men and dare I mention, hor*y?
Author Charles067 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 Oh, great. She wants to have a "talk" again later tonight. This after I get home from a day out with friends. First she said my discipline of the kids seemed to be lacking over the weekend and says I seem way more into being a dad lately - "it's great that you've been stepping up, too bad it wasn't that way earlier" (wow, such total b.s.). Then she has the audacity to say I need to "work with" her. After saying crap like that? Yeah I really feel like this is all about good faith after I've had a couple of cheap shots taken at me. To give me a 'preview' of tonight's discussion, she said she doesn't think either one of us should get an attorney (I refuse to back down from my right to obtain an attorney, I'm getting one, period). On the good side she alluded to getting a child psychologist to analyze the needs of the kids, which is the first time she's made sense in weeks. Can't help but think she'll try to attach some weird condition to that, though. Please pray for me, everyone. I'm going to try my best to listen to what she has to say tonight without judging or overreacting, but her track record has me feeling quite skeptical.
Author Charles067 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Posted January 24, 2011 I think the bottom line here is she wants no attorney involvement, still somehow thinks we can agree on everything. Long story short, she's trying to talk me into not getting an attorney for myself (except to review documents). I want an attorney for the childrens' sake and to make sure my rights are protected here. I also want at least mediation so there are witnesses to our conversations, that's one of my main goals with it as well. She's angling for a "kitchen-table agreement." It's part of her overall strategy; she wants to make sure we stay inside the bubble, basically. I'm just wondering what negotiating power I have to go to mediation, collaborative divorce or full court. I suppose if I refuse to meet her on her terms, then there is no choice but for her to go at least to mediation, which could just be the beginning.
just_some_guy Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 I think the bottom line here is she wants no attorney involvement, still somehow thinks we can agree on everything. Long story short, she's trying to talk me into not getting an attorney for myself (except to review documents). I want an attorney for the childrens' sake and to make sure my rights are protected here. I also want at least mediation so there are witnesses to our conversations, that's one of my main goals with it as well. She's angling for a "kitchen-table agreement." It's part of her overall strategy; she wants to make sure we stay inside the bubble, basically. I'm just wondering what negotiating power I have to go to mediation, collaborative divorce or full court. I suppose if I refuse to meet her on her terms, then there is no choice but for her to go at least to mediation, which could just be the beginning. It sounds like you need a really strong attorney and you need to separate, period. The craziness is all around and you're taking an active part in it by remaining in the home with her. Either she goes or you go, or you guys figure out how to stay together. Because you have three kids, you seriously need a serious lawyer, both of you do.
Binster Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 She's trying to turn you over here mate. Get a lawyer, a big mean one and go for the throat.
seibert253 Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Don't trust her man...she will try to f*** your eyeballs out. ^^^^^^ This Hire the biggest A-hole attorney you can find. This about you and your kids, not her.
Author Charles067 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Posted January 28, 2011 A mutual friend confirmed for me tonight that she slept around with this dude. Wow, my opinion of her couldn't be any lower right now. She says she wants no attorneys. I think she's trying to keep me around right now for financial reasons and because it's handy for me to watch the kids when she needs to do whatever, she's probably hoping that will include me watching them while she screws around with this other guy. A friend of mine has broadcast to several people that he's offering a room for rent and earlier today I talked to a pretty good bulldog attorney who basically says "we don't necessarily want it to go to court, but we're prepared to do so if we have to." All I have to figure out now is a) How soon can I up and move out without losing any ground in the child custody battle? and b) How can I get her to assume full mortgage payments by March 1st if I'm gonna go live somewhere else while all this is being figured out. Finances are stretched super-tight 'cause we're still paying for three kids in daycare right now, and clearly she's draggin' her ass on the divorce because she can have her built-in financial partner and babysitter while she's ho-in' around. I guess I don't mind eating ramen and white rice for a while if it means being out from under this messed-up woman, but I don't want to lose my leverage in the child custody fight by moving out prematurely. I guess I'll consult with the attorney tomorrow to see what my options are. This is typical though, she's trying to play emotional blackmail/mind games while starting to sleep around with another man before the divorce process has even started. Whatever respect I did have for her is completely gone at this point.
Author Charles067 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Posted January 28, 2011 The attorney earlier today also said he and I can get the divorce papers completed without her knowledge and just pull the trigger as soon as it's 'go' time. I kind of liked his attitude. He understands we want it to be smooth because there's little kids involved and that he'll try to play nice, but that if it gets nasty, he's willing to take it to that level. This dude might be just what I need.
2sunny Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 The attorney earlier today also said he and I can get the divorce papers completed without her knowledge and just pull the trigger as soon as it's 'go' time. I kind of liked his attitude. He understands we want it to be smooth because there's little kids involved and that he'll try to play nice, but that if it gets nasty, he's willing to take it to that level. This dude might be just what I need. do this. she wants things her way so you get screwed over by her. do not go along with her plan. she will most likely owe you support money. she makes more - 50/50 custody and she knows she'll have to pay child support and probably spousal support for at least a few years, she's trying to get you flustred so you don't get what is yours by law. stick with the attorney. since she wants the divorce- let her move! make sure you move money ahead of time into your name - as she will suddenly take it all. i took my half and put it my name only - as my exH would have spent it all. look out for YOUR best interest and your kids... she's in a fog and is only thinking of herself. if you need to fight for 100 percent custody because she is inconsistent, distracted and unreliable (which she probably will be if she's dating) - then make sure and ask for full custody. and stop worrying about what she wants = she's out to screw you... watch your back-no one else is going to. stay strong! it takes courage and strength so stay focused on the long term best decisions... do not let her bully you into quick decisions... she designing that way to screw you.
Author Charles067 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 Just when I get encouraged by certain turns of events and the advice of all of you fine folks, something else happens to upset the apple-cart. I talked again today to the "bulldog" attorney who I thought I liked, but then he told me the system is biased against men and that the likelihood was that I was going to get 25/75 physical custody (not in my favor). He said he was just trying to be a realist, but I thought it was a defeatist attitude, and that it was an odd angle to approach it from if he was trying to get me to hire him for my case. He's used to handling more criminal cases than he is family law cases (although he says he's handled several of the latter kinds). I'm discouraged, though. What does it take to make your case for joint physical custody? Is it true that the deck is stacked against me and I shouldn't even bother with all of this? I think yes, I should, but some days I feel like my hopes are really dim. I need a real solid attorney who doesn't have that kind of approach to things, and I am actually close to narrowing one down. I'm making a couple of more appointments in the next week to make absolutely sure I feel I've got the right one. Then I'm going to make it happen. As someone said earlier, now is the time to catch her while she's distracted, it may help me get a better outcome.
NeNinja Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 1. You need an attorney. My friends ex-wife 'didn't think they should get lawyers involved.' It didn't work well for him when her attorney showed up prepared to gut him and his attorney was...non-existent. 2. I would try and keep a record of all her 'interactions' with this other guy. (Where I come from) If you're still married its an affair and she's giving you 'grounds' for a divorce. Hire a private eye (most divorce lawyers will have or know a good one). This may help you financially, with custody (character issues) or in ways you haven't even thought of yet. 3. Keep your guard up. This is war.
carhill Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 OP, my sympathies. Tip: If you have time, interview as many of the highly reputable family law attorneys in your area as you can. Two reasons: One, more exposure ensures a more compatible 'fit'. Two, and this one's bonus, your wife can't retain that attorney for a contested action. Figure, if she's going to be a well-funded b!tch about this, spending a year's salary before taxes on the process. It's expensive, though it likely will be spread out over a couple of years. Your lawyer will be the best source of advice wrt actions in your jurisdiction. Take it one step at a time. Suggest mediation. Be open to compromise. Don't compromise your goal. A good lawyer will ask you your goal and it will be very specific. If you can only come away with one part of your life intact out of this divorce, what will it be? Think about that. Good luck
sailor Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Perhaps your wife just muttered the divorce word out of frustration and anger of the moment not meaning it. Maybe something better to forget than allow a misspoken word to take on a life of it's own and ruin the lives of two great people and three little children. I know a sweet little girl about four that had her parents divorce a couple of years ago, she cannot get over it. always mentioning how she remembers when her mommy and daddy were still married. Maybe your wife wasn't gloating the fact she has a higher income than you, maybe it's just a little resentment creeping in, it's happened to me. It's amazing how fast love can turn to bitterness if we allow selfish thoughts and desires to overweigh the good of our family. Your wife drinks a bit, can you blame her? Who knows what she has to put up with at work all day, then try to be the wife and mother she needs to be all within a few packed hours. When i was in the same boat as you I found a simple way to turn around the stress at home, I started bringing home flowers once a week, that little effort made a 180 degree turn at home, a hug and a smile instead grumbling and arguing. Maybe your family is worth a little effort. Love is a decision and who's marriage is perfect? You mentioned you would like prayers for your situation, have your pastor pray for you also. Your marriage is worth saving, why not try just loving your wife?
Iconoclast Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Words Uh, read the thread before hitting reply.
bluebirdsfly Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 Words Uh, read the thread before hitting reply. Please read the thread before hitting reply, Sailor. Your points are good, but irreverent to the specific situation.
sailor Posted February 10, 2011 Posted February 10, 2011 I'm sorry, yes I agree, I didn't fully read the thread, but only saw the similarities in my own marriage, and jumped to conclusions. I would like to apologize to Charles067 and everybody here, again I'm very sorry,
douglus Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 LegalX Premium Lawyer Directory Your trusted, comprehensive resource for locating lawyers and law firms nationwide that can help you with any of your legal issues. find attorney
DitkasMoustache Posted March 25, 2011 Posted March 25, 2011 I talked again today to the "bulldog" attorney who I thought I liked, but then he told me the system is biased against men and that the likelihood was that I was going to get 25/75 physical custody (not in my favor). He said he was just trying to be a realist, but I thought it was a defeatist attitude, and that it was an odd angle to approach it from if he was trying to get me to hire him for my case. I know this is a few months old but hopefully my two cents is worth something. This attorney is blowing smoke. I don't know what your particular circumstances are but my guess is that Mr. Bulldog Lawyer Guy has done the math and said to himself "This dude doesn't have $15-20,000 to spend on a divorce... so I'll give him the coach class service and keep my time free for someone with deeper pockets." I'm a guy who lives in one of the most conservative states in the US and I currently have temp primary custody of my two year old. This despite my XTB having obtained a temporary protection order against me in October (it probably helped that the judge wasn't convinced that she wasn't full of crap). I'm also a full-time student (read: unemployed, or at least not employed in any meaningful way) and my XTB earns over $100K/year. The simple truth is that these days dads who pursue custody have a 50/50 shot at getting it. And it's not that hard. A real boon to my case has been twofold: 1. I keep a journal of EVERY interaction with my X2B, whether it's a phone call, an e-mail, a text message or a face-to-face, and 2. I record EVERY interaction with her when it's practical. The answers to our discovery questions came last week and there are least half a dozen specific claims/answers that my X2B has provided as sworn statements that can be disproved or reasonably contradicted by my audio/video evidence or journal entries. Judges have heard it all so they know when they're being lied to. And they HATE when they're being lied to They also hate it almost as much when they feel that one party is abusing the court system to settle a score (something like, oh, say... a protection order granted based on false testimony) So don't sweat Mr. Bulldog Lawyer Guy. Trust your instincts and pad up for the fight. I wish you the best of luck, sir!
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