tinktronik Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I so don't need this right now. I've been noticing some instances of "irrationality" in my SO (diagnosed bipolar) lately (around 3 months). They have become more extreme as of late. He has become argumentative, moody, and really his rationale just did not seem... well rational. So I have been urging his to talk to his doc about adjusting his meds. The last week to 2 weeks he has been just behaving bizarrely. Last Wed. I missed my (pregnancy) doc appt. because he took off with all of the bank cards. When I was upset he insisted that I should have gone to the doc anyway. There was no gas in the car and I had no money for parking and he had taken my bank cards. But he is still insisting I should have gone and have no right to be upset. There are more and more instances of this. He told me today that he has actually been off his meds completely for 3 months at least and "playing" with them for a year. He refuses to go see his doc and says he will not take his meds. I am so pissed. We chose to have a baby now b/c he had great med compliance, our lives had stabilized since he was diagnosed, I am in remission from a disease that greatly affects pregnancy for me and now's the time or never. But the biggest factor was that he was well, showing signs of long smooth mood stability, and completely back to his former self. I can't force him to take his meds. He's too irrational to reason with about medicating or anything else. He has been lying to me! God Damnit. I just cannot do this, I am going to crumble and fall apart.
Author tinktronik Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 You know, this is my own fault. I knew going in that I would have to be prepared to raise this child as the responsible adult in her life. I am infuriated at my SO for choosing now, of all times, to live in a way that does not chose to see the pain he puts those around him in. I don't know how to look forward and see how a mentally ill person will behave, but I certainly knew this was one possibly scenario even if I found it to be unlikely.
TaraMaiden Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I am so, sooo sorry. You're right, you don't. What do you feel would work, right now? Can you contact a member of your family? Can you speak to your doctor? Could he speak to your SO? I know you have had recent medical issues, and other non-medical hassle and complications at home.... This situation is ridiculous, because Bipolar sufferers are made more stable by their medication, and they reach a plateau where everything seems to be on a level course.... and they then believe that everything is so good, that, "oh look! I don't need the meds any more, see? I'm doing really well, fine, honestly! Who needs 'em??" I know someone in my family who is Bi-Polar and her husband has to stand over her and damn well make her take them, every few months or so, because she experiences the same results. He needs someone professional, medical and authoritative to read him the riot act..... You shouldn't have to be dealing with this on your own, in your condition and with your complications. Talk to your Doctor. And ask your doctor if there is a support group you could bash brains with, as well....
Author tinktronik Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 I am so, sooo sorry. You're right, you don't. What do you feel would work, right now? What would work is for him to just take his meds. Beyond that we are in for a long road that I'm just not emotionally up for again. Last time he was unmedicated, several years ago, he hung himself from our bedroom fan and I just don't have it in me to handhold and deal while he goes off the deep end. Can you contact a member of your family? I have let my mother know and her advice is that he should take his meds. It's difficult to explain to people that you cannot force the meds and that an irrational person will not take rational actions. Can you speak to your doctor? Could he speak to your SO? I see my doc again on Wed. and I will ask about a support group. I don't know that he/she would be willing to speak with my SO, but it can't hurt to try. This situation is ridiculous, because Bipolar sufferers are made more stable by their medication, and they reach a plateau where everything seems to be on a level course.... and they then believe that everything is so good, that, "oh look! I don't need the meds any more, see? I'm doing really well, fine, honestly! Who needs 'em??" I know someone in my family who is Bi-Polar and her husband has to stand over her and damn well make her take them, every few months or so, because she experiences the same results. That's exactly what happens. It's like he forgets how severe things get, to the point he hangs himself, can't read, spends every penny in our accounts and then some, destroys all his relationships... Until he takes his meds and then he levels out and is just normal. He uses the excuse that he feels 'flat' or not like himself on his meds. Well you know, maybe that's a good thing considering how he behaves in the times when he thinks he is 'himself'. He needs someone professional, medical and authoritative to read him the riot act..... You shouldn't have to be dealing with this on your own, in your condition and with your complications. Talk to your Doctor. And ask your doctor if there is a support group you could bash brains with, as well....
Author tinktronik Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 I see homeless, obviously mentally ill, people and I always wonder where their families are. I really get it now though, they have to be willing to get help. I just want to smack him. But I won't.
whichwayisup Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Sorry that you have to deal with this Tink. You have so much going on! Do some reading and even download the book, google depressionfallout.
TaraMaiden Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) I see homeless, obviously mentally ill, people and I always wonder where their families are. I really get it now though, they have to be willing to get help. I just want to smack him. But I won't. Would ultimatums work? You know, I'm just wondering what it is that keeps you there. Lord forbid that I should ever be intending to cause a rift, but I'm wondering about your payoff. Do you think he needs you? I'm certainly not going to either discuss, or invite you to expand on your domestic situation, but when you know how bad it can get - and he seems reluctant to reverse the situation - why do you stay and subject yourself to failure? You're absolutely right. They have to be willing themselves to see and to rectify. They cannot be forced. But you have something a lot more compelling to consider right now. You, your baby - and other minor factors. This is hell. You really want to go through it again? Edited January 18, 2011 by TaraMaiden
Author tinktronik Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Would ultimatums work? You know, I'm just wondering what it is that keeps you there. Lord forbid that I should ever be intending to cause a rift, but I'm wondering about your payoff. Do you think he needs you? I'm certainly not going to either discuss, or invite you to expand on your domestic situation, but when you know how bad it can get - and he seems reluctant to reverse the situation - why do you stay and subject yourself to failure? You're absolutely right. They have to be willing themselves to see and to rectify. They cannot be forced. But you have something a lot more compelling to consider right now. You, your baby - and other minor factors. This is hell. You really want to go through it again? I don't think at this point that ultimatums would work. He's convinced at the moment that he is just fine and dandy. He will eventually come around but I don't think I'm up for the 9 rounds before he gets to that place. Why do I stay? That is the question of the century. When he is medicated, he is amazing. I knew him before this illness claimed his mind and struggle with if I would leave a person if they had diabetes or heart failure. But you're right, I do have someone more important to think about, my child. I think I'm going to fly to my mother's this next weekend and take some time off and think about what I want to do. This is just too much for me.
JohnnyBlaze Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 It's a control issue. Not that he's trying to control you or anything like that, but he's trying to control himself. If he resorts to meds, it's akin to saying "I can't even control my own body". I know that medication helps and that it isn't conceding failure, but that is the way a lot of people see it. I think Tara's right. Talk to his doctor and see if there is a local support group. If there is, go. It would be better if he came with, but even if he won't (right away), at least you may be able to get some insight into things. He needs to understand the ramifications of his actions; ultimatums would just make him defensive. He has to come to understand that the medication puts him in control, instead of taking it from him as he believes. It won't be easy for you, but for what it's worth, it's a lot harder for him.
Author tinktronik Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 It's a control issue. Not that he's trying to control you or anything like that, but he's trying to control himself. If he resorts to meds, it's akin to saying "I can't even control my own body". I know that medication helps and that it isn't conceding failure, but that is the way a lot of people see it. I think Tara's right. Talk to his doctor and see if there is a local support group. If there is, go. It would be better if he came with, but even if he won't (right away), at least you may be able to get some insight into things. He needs to understand the ramifications of his actions; ultimatums would just make him defensive. He has to come to understand that the medication puts him in control, instead of taking it from him as he believes. It won't be easy for you, but for what it's worth, it's a lot harder for him. I agree that his meds put him in control. He is almost 50 years old though and no one is going to convince him of this. I disagree that this is more difficult for him. The family is the ones that have to hold him and his fallout together while he's high on a manic streak and then down in the gutter. We, in this case I alone, have to pick up the pieces and make sure the bills stay paid and worry about him crashing the cars, or starting a fight, or spending the accounts, or hanging himself all while he is too irrational to hold a job and after he starts to rebuild it and get on meds have to support and hand hold until the next time when it starts over again. IMO this is like a diabetic that plays with their meds to get them a little high or stops taking them, it's just stupid and selfish and while the diabetic may die he leaves behind a hole in his wake and has disrupted many lives with his selfishness.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I can say this from a person diagnosed Bipolar type 2, and is medicated: You need to force him to take his meds somehow. Most likely, he isn't thinking rationally. When I was manic, I didn't think rationally and logically. He needs a good kick in the butt to get him going again, and if it's not by you, it needs to be his doc. Can you have him committed? I don't know what the legal status is for mentally ill people who don't take their meds, but surely there has to be a way to force him to get back on meds. And if you feel like it's impossible, leave him. He needs to sort his own life out, he doesn't need to drag you down with him.
johan Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Sorry to hear about this, Tink. Wish I could help. It's risky getting involved with someone like that. Maybe you can grind them up and slip them into his food or something?
Els Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 In such cases, I think you should call the psychiatrist himself to come and pay him a visit. They do that over there, right?
Author tinktronik Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 I can say this from a person diagnosed Bipolar type 2, and is medicated: You need to force him to take his meds somehow. Most likely, he isn't thinking rationally. When I was manic, I didn't think rationally and logically. He needs a good kick in the butt to get him going again, and if it's not by you, it needs to be his doc. Can you have him committed? I don't know what the legal status is for mentally ill people who don't take their meds, but surely there has to be a way to force him to get back on meds. And if you feel like it's impossible, leave him. He needs to sort his own life out, he doesn't need to drag you down with him. The only way to force him would be to have him committed. In order to commit him he has to exhibit physical danger to himself or others. In the meanwhile, I have taken away my bank cards, and my car keys. When he is off his meds he does irrational things with the car (he's crashed it twice while off meds from frustration) and the bank cards (he spends money like water when off meds). These are things he's only done while unmedicated and manic and he will stay manic as long as there is money to be spent. And really, because both of these things are solely in my name and we are not married I am solely responsible for any fallout from what actions he may take with my things. He says I'm being an abusive spouse for removing these things but I just don't want to be responsible for the choices he makes right now. Is this abusive?
Author tinktronik Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 In such cases, I think you should call the psychiatrist himself to come and pay him a visit. They do that over there, right? Nope. I wish.
Author tinktronik Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Sorry to hear about this, Tink. Wish I could help. It's risky getting involved with someone like that. Maybe you can grind them up and slip them into his food or something? This is something to consider. I wish there were just one or two, instead or 14 a day though. It is risky getting involved. If I had had all of the information going in I would most likely not gotten involved with him.
sweetjasmine Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 He says I'm being an abusive spouse for removing these things but I just don't want to be responsible for the choices he makes right now. Is this abusive? No. They're your car keys and your bank cards. He's not a child. I'm sure he sees it as abusive, but as you said, he thinks and acts irrationally when he's off his meds and manic. I agree with the suggestions people have made about talking to his doctor and the support group. And please take care of yourself.
johan Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 This is something to consider. I wish there were just one or two, instead or 14 a day though. It is risky getting involved. If I had had all of the information going in I would most likely not gotten involved with him. 14 a day? Wow. You'd need a coffee grinder. I just have to take vitamins and that seems like a hassle. That's a common thing for people to say. For many reasons besides not taking anti-psychotics. It's always something. Things should be easier for you. You're getting more than your fair share of crap lately.
Art_Critic Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Hi Tink.. This has to be hard on you right now... Since he is off his meds then remember that he is sick right now and try to keep the mental disorder person separate from the guy you love and are having a child with. I do know that one of the issue with this disorder is that when medicated some people feel so good that they no longer feel like they need them so they go off them, only to crash and have to go back on them.. I really don't have any advice other than maybe an ultimatum might shack him into getting back on them. Honestly with all the things happening right now you need to be as stress free as possible and still get him on his meds.. Does his family have any pull ? You could try and call his Dr.... but without and HIPPA paperwork filed for you to know about his case then he most likely won't discuss this too much with you, other than making him aware of the issue that is.. Maybe he can assist you in getting him back on the meds.. Hang in there...
Author tinktronik Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 14 a day? Wow. You'd need a coffee grinder. I just have to take vitamins and that seems like a hassle. That's a common thing for people to say. For many reasons besides not taking anti-psychotics. It's always something. Things should be easier for you. You're getting more than your fair share of crap lately. It is always something. I could handle an irritating tick or a hassling mother or a gassy spouse. But this psychotic thing is tough. I have had a hand full lately, my lupus diagnosis is brand new, I've had shingles and just grumpiness all around, dealing with my ex's anger over me having another child. But you know those things I can manage. I can't manage this, not for someone else. I wonder why he would decide to do this mid-pregnancy?
Star Gazer Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Oh Tink, I'm so sorry you're going through this - now of all times too! Would it help if I slapped him for you? (((Tink))) Maybe you can grind them up and slip them into his food or something? I don't pretend to know how to rationalize with someone who's bi-polar, but the above is exactly what I would think to do...
Author tinktronik Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Hi Tink.. This has to be hard on you right now... Since he is off his meds then remember that he is sick right now and try to keep the mental disorder person separate from the guy you love and are having a child with. I do know that one of the issue with this disorder is that when medicated some people feel so good that they no longer feel like they need them so they go off them, only to crash and have to go back on them.. I really don't have any advice other than maybe an ultimatum might shack him into getting back on them. Honestly with all the things happening right now you need to be as stress free as possible and still get him on his meds.. Does his family have any pull ? You could try and call his Dr.... but without and HIPPA paperwork filed for you to know about his case then he most likely won't discuss this too much with you, other than making him aware of the issue that is.. Maybe he can assist you in getting him back on the meds.. Hang in there...His family wrote him off long ago. They speak once a year or so. And I've asked for their help before to be told that "he's your problem now." He is at this point agreeing that we will go in to talk to his doc tomorrow ... but his suggestion is to talk about my need to understand his right to refuse medication and how I am being abusive and coercing him to be med compliant by taking away the car keys and bank cards. This is better than nothing, at least he would be in front of the doc.
Art_Critic Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 This is better than nothing, at least he would be in front of the doc. Yes it is....Maybe the Dr can get thru to him somehow.. Be ready or have ready a real consequence for him not being med compliant from here forward.. that might help give the Dr a helping hand.. I'm not saying to pull it out or reveal it.. but just have one ready and in your mind to be used tomorrow if needed. Good luck
johan Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I don't see why "I'm leaving you" shouldn't be on the table right now. He's threatening to bring way more cost than benefit to the deal. He could screw you over completely. The best insurance is to get your assets separated right away.
BenThereDunThat Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 So sorry you are going through this. I don't know how the laws work at all in the situation but does his past behavior while off his meds constitute a present danger to himself or others now that he's off them again and showing the same signs of irrationality? Wrecking the car and hanging himself from the ceiling fan are pretty severe. Are you supposed to wait until he does something like that again before you can get him hospitalized?
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