Gracerella Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I've posted here before, but am setting up a new profile for this as an added measure of protection with all that is now happening. Brief recap: I am OW, met the love of my life years ago through mutual friends. His marriage was very unstable, eventually ended, D was final several months ago. During the falling apart of his marriage my ex and I were divorcing, and we WERE together before it was legally appropriate. As a mutual friend of his 'BS' I saw first hand how she would spin stories, change emails, play the victim, and overall make him look like an awful person. I couldn't SAY anything at the time because in order to know and have access to the other side, I would be making our relationship clear. They decided to divorce before she knew about he and I, and she was already dating and 'in love' with her boyfriend. Then she found out about he and I, started calling it an affair, and what I KNEW was going to happen began to take place. Manipulations about the situation, contacting mutual friends and spinning an entirely false story, blogging publicly, etc. We have taken the high road during this time, and have not replied...figuring that the ones that care enough to know the real story will seek it out. And many have. Fast forward a few months and she insisted that we not have any contact during their divorce process, and in order to minimize any drama (and to follow the advice of both of our therapists) we complied and went NC. She told him several times that as long as he stayed away from me, that he could have full access to the kids. But if he resumed contact she would hold him to the decreed visitation (meanwhile, blogging about how wonderful, understanding, supportive, etc she is). Last week he told her he was going to resume contact with me, and she flipped. Her blog did a complete 180 and began telling about how selfish, awful, corrupt he is. She is saying that we've been in contact this entire time, poor her, etc. A few of our mutual friends are still in contact with me, and I found out yesterday that she is back to her old tricks...forwarding emails she says are from him, portraying that he wants her back, that she can't get him to leave her alone, etc. Which is sad and disturbing, because the entire weekend was spend with her texting him abusive, awful texts such as "you'll never make enough money for her, you're not attractive enough or good enough in bed for her. she's going to leave you, you're an idiot for not seeing this". Now, MY blood boils to see the man that I love being treated this way. I saw it happen during the years of friendship (called her on it often, and was belittled for speaking out against her whenever I did), and while HE doesn't let it affect how he views himself or even really cares about what she says, and this is his battle to fight. I am truly concerned about her mental health. She tweets about how we rub our relationship in her face (which is a week-old resumed friendship at this point, and hasn't been mentioned publicly AT ALL), how we try to beat her down, break her, manipulate HER, etc. Her fans rally around and support and encourage her, and no one knows the real story (those that have cared enough to ask are horrified by the reality of what he/we are dealing with). Today's drama revolves around an email she sent that says that she has decided to revoke their current visitation schedule, and if can see how above and beyond she has gone to support his relationship with the kids (ie-he was arriving at her house every morning at 6:30 to get the kids ready/feed breakfast/make lunches so she could get ready for work...this was revoked when he began contacting me) he will agree. Otherwise she's threatening court. It's just constant, this twisting, manipulative behavior fueled by her anger and hatred. She has been dx as bipolar and borderline, and is on several medications. OUR hands are semi-tied because no one that she sends these propaganda type emails to, or reads her blog, will hear us as anything other than revengeful people that ruined her life and continue to torture her. But honestly? I've known her for years. YEARS. She is NOT stable. She is emotionally, verbally, and recently physically abusive towards her ex (my friend/bf). She seems to be worsening, and I worry for their kids, for her well being, and for exactly how much damage she will be able to wreak before the truth starts to get out. I"m not sure what I"m asking for...I know there's not a lot that can be done without stooping to her level or looking like crazies ourselves. Just needed to vent.
thomasb Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Amazing how you were sleeping with her husband while portraying yourself as a family friend and now are saying that she is the awful person in the situation.
woinlove Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I was once involved with a MM whose wife was unstable and sometimes violent. I didn't know her beforehand and we were never friends. He divorced and wanted to be together, but I ended it, partly because I didn't want his wife in my life. It was the right decision for me. My feelings toward her at the time were a mixture of resentment that she was able to manipulate others so effectively through bad behavior and compassion that her emotions obviously caused herself a lot of pain too and that her husband had hurt her a lot (she was unfaithful, too, but the fact remains that her husband deceived her and made the decision to divorce her). Looking back, I would have done better to let any resentment go and feel only compassion for her. Any resentment is long gone now, but I should have let it go at the time. In your case, this woman likely feels a double betrayal if you acted like a friend to her while hiding your relationship with her husband. If all she is doing to you is talking, any people whose opinions matter will make up their own minds. Meanwhile, this is really more a matter for her exH. I would suggest supporting him in however he wants to deal with this. As to children, I'm happy to report that the children of my xMM all still love both their mother and father. Their mother is "challenging", but they love her anyway. And their mother never harassed her xH's girlfriends who followed me, because they weren't associated with the breakup of her M. So, in my case, it worked out well for everyone that I didn't stick around. In your case, you say he is "the one". So, it sounds like she will be a part of your life. Kindness, compassion and patience usually help.
GreenEyedLady Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Ok, they are DIVORCED, correct? Why is he asking her permission to see you again? Something smells fishy here and I don't think it's just her. Why didn't he stand up and fight for your R? She CAN'T keep him away from his kids no matter what BS's THINK they can do. She's onto another man, why does he care to appease her? I think you're getting only half the story. Or your man is a wimp, sorry to say. GEL
JsSweetPea Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Oh gosh, I'm so afraid I'm going to be writing a post like yours one day. I'm so sorry you guys are going through all this. My MM's W is a bit unstable & I worry constantly about what she's going to do. I don't see how she can keep him from seeing the kids just because you're in the picture. It's not legal, is it? I mean.. unless you were a danger to the kids, which you're not just because you love her xH. As far as her talking crap, ignore it. I'm sure it's hard & I would find it very hard to see someone talk badly about my MM. You two just need to live your lives & hopefully people will see through her bull. If they don't see through it, than it's their loss. You guys know the truth & unfortunately people are always going to take sides. Her future is up to her. Her marriage ended, but her life didn't. Just one chapter is over & it's up to her how she wants to write the next one. Miserable & angry or hopeful & trying to be happy.
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 She can't keep him from the children and in fact, with a good lawyer and proof of her instability - she could end up being the one with limited or even supervised visitation. She has been dx as bipolar and borderline, and is on several medications. Was the judge aware of this when visitation was set?
whichwayisup Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 She can't keep him from the children and in fact, with a good lawyer and proof of her instability - she could end up being the one with limited or even supervised visitation. Was the judge aware of this when visitation was set? Was just wondering the same thing. Something feels "off" and I think GEL is right, you're only getting certain truths. This woman is mentally ill, she's not a monster. You knew this when you were her friend, years ago.
TigerCub Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Look, even if you're not doing anything to provoke her, she may still think that you're rubbing your R with her ex in her face, simply based on the fact that you were supposed to be her friend, but you fooled around with her H instead. She tried to use the kids as pawns in order to get him to stop seeing you, but that didn't work for long (and it shouldn't) - and I'm sure that pissed her off more. So she blogs her version of the story, so what? who cares what other idiots read and think of it? As far as threatening him about the kids - I'm with everyone that says that crap like that doesn't fly in court, especially if she has mental/psychological disorders. I'm totally with GEL on that something's missing from this story - it just doesn't make sense. All you can do is support your man right now, but if this BS threatens to "go to court", I would encourage him to do just that - she can't keep his kids from him. ETA - I just have one question. You mentioned that he goes over to her house and get the kids ready in the mornings while she's getting ready for work - why does he do that? Really, if that's her day to have the kids, why the hell isn't he letting her take care of them on her own and have her time with them? Does he not have his own days with them? They need to have court determined custody that specifies when each of them gets the kids, and on the days she has them, he shouldn't be going to her place to help her (unless there's a big emergency and he's really needed for the kids) - that really makes no sense to me. Edited January 17, 2011 by TigerCub
NoIDidn't Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 OP, I'm not sure what you're asking for either. From what I've read, you were her friend and messed around with her H behind her back and now he's "yours". That's enough to drive someone without mental illness to the brink, so I guess you are just venting like you said. I refuse to advise you to use her mental illness against her in court. One of the principle symptoms of BPD is taking rejection really badly and an intense fear of abandonment. Well, her H abandoned her AND rejected her as a partner. She needs help, not ridicule. Maybe you guys know a good therapist? I wouldn't be too worried about the threat about the kids. It wouldn't stick in court, unless he does something horrendous. Plus, you can use her blog as evidence. And it would be really stupid for her, knowing that you and all her "supporters" can read it, to make those threats there. Ride it out.
pureinheart Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Ya, I'm with GEL...oh hell no, noone, no ex, no nothing except for God is going to tell me who I can and can't see or they'll this that and the other...I'd tell her to go for it and in the meantime build a case for instability agaisnt her! It wouldn't be hard...tell him to document. Everything This whole thing can be turned around in a NY minute;)
BB07 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 OP, I'm not sure what you're asking for either. From what I've read, you were her friend and messed around with her H behind her back and now he's "yours". That's enough to drive someone without mental illness to the brink, so I guess you are just venting like you said. I refuse to advise you to use her mental illness against her in court. One of the principle symptoms of BPD is taking rejection really badly and an intense fear of abandonment. Well, her H abandoned her AND rejected her as a partner. She needs help, not ridicule. Maybe you guys know a good therapist? I wouldn't be too worried about the threat about the kids. It wouldn't stick in court, unless he does something horrendous. Plus, you can use her blog as evidence. And it would be really stupid for her, knowing that you and all her "supporters" can read it, to make those threats there. Ride it out. Really good advice! This is going to come off snarky and I'm not implying that you deserve what is happening, but by having an affair with your friends husband, you took big risks and one of those risks is that she could become unhinged.
Author Gracerella Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 We all know that getting involved before the M's ended wasn't the right thing to do, and yes it most likely contributed to her state of mind. However; having dealt with a Borderline before, I can tell you, even stable life is no picnic at all. I can't imagine what a Borderline diagnosed bi-polar is like. Take care of yourself. Don't engage her. It'll only make it worse. Your SO should stick to the court ordered visitation for now. She's using those kids as leverage, so let her live in her threats. Bet she won't like taking care of them the majority of the time since apparently he helped her quite a bit. Just take the wind out of her sails. Exactly-he was there in the mornings at her request, when she decided she didn't want him there daily (to her, as punishment for his actions by removing free access to the kids) it was within her right to do so, and he has respected this completely (and yeah, it's nice to sleep in past 6:30 ) There were a few other statements that I want to come back to...really appreciate everyone's comments. Thank you. The one that I've carried with me all day was the one about kindness, compassion and patience. I've been reactive and protective, not empathetic. I have zero contact with her (outside of a ranting email she sent a few weeks ago, out of the blue, telling me that he'll never throw away the good parenting relationship she's 'allowed' him to have for me...I never replied, and he resumed contact soon after...so, um, guess he wasn't as under he control as she thought), and don't anticipate that happening for quite a while. she is on meds, has a therapist and a psychiatrist, and is currently in a manic phase. She'll cycle back around soon, though I fear a fallout is coming. Hopefully her ability to vent on her blog (as skewed and untrue as her rants are) will continue to help her let go and heal instead of fixate and spiral. If that's the case, I'm all for it. I don't care what hundreds of internet strangers think of me, and I don't need the anonymous validation that she seems to seek. I do, however, need a safe place to ask for outside opinions and get both supportive and unsupportive viewpoints...I'll take both if they help me see the bigger picture. As for the comments that there may be something fishy there...there's not. She has begged him to take her back, asked why doesn't he love her, isn't she good enough, etc (a borderline's fear of abandonment is STRONG)....he replied that he'll always love her as the mother of his children, but wants her to move on with her life and be happy, and is glad that she has a boyfriend she can love and trust. This is what she's fixating on and using to show that he didn't leave her (because how COULD he), but that she can't get away from him. I forget the other comments...I'll come back to them in the morning. Tired But thank you all for your insight. Please continue to comment.
Author Gracerella Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Ok, they are DIVORCED, correct? Why is he asking her permission to see you again? Something smells fishy here and I don't think it's just her. Why didn't he stand up and fight for your R? She CAN'T keep him away from his kids no matter what BS's THINK they can do. She's onto another man, why does he care to appease her? I think you're getting only half the story. Or your man is a wimp, sorry to say. GEL When they were divorcing she asked him to go NC with me, and as their divorce was uncontested (and financially, he wished it to remain so), AND because both our therapists advised the same, we agreed. She asked him to tell her if he decided to resume contact, and he agreed to that as well. I supported all of that, as we wanted to be completely up front as a couple after working on ourselves and finalizing our divorces...to get it right this time around. He wasn't asking PERMISSION, but advising her of his decision. She allowed DAILY contact (on her terms, and with her okay) AS LONG AS he wasn't in contact with ME. It was made clear that should he have contact, they would revert to the decreed visitation. She felt that he would not be willing to lose that contact with the children for me...but he DID stand up for us as we are moving forward, and continues to tell her that he's sorry she feels this way, BUT he wants to be honest about our relationship and if she demands that he stick to the decree, he will do so. not a wimp, and not hiding anything. But a man that has lived with a bully for over a decade and is learning to stand on his own and face her for the first time in his life. It's not an easy process for him, changing that dynamic, and he's still finding his sea legs. But he's stronger than he ever thought, or she ever anticipated. He deserves to be happy after YEARS of being told he's not good enough, smart, attractive, etc. You can only throw your wedding ring at someone so many times and demand a separation before they let it fall and say "Fine. Me too.".
Owl Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 This... It's just constant, this twisting, manipulative behavior fueled by her anger and hatred. She has been dx as bipolar and borderline, and is on several medications. Doesn't add up with this.... OUR hands are semi-tied because no one that she sends these propaganda type emails to, or reads her blog, will hear us as anything other than revengeful people that ruined her life and continue to torture her. If all these friends are 'mutual', then they've got to be very aware of her mental issues. Bipolar and borderline are impossible to miss. If they're all aware of her mental state, and things are as bad as you've described, why on Earth would they view you and him that way? Non sequiter
dont-be-naive Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 This... Doesn't add up with this.... If all these friends are 'mutual', then they've got to be very aware of her mental issues. Bipolar and borderline are impossible to miss. If they're all aware of her mental state, and things are as bad as you've described, why on Earth would they view you and him that way? this is why, more than likely, the twisting and manipulation are not coming from the BS in this scenario, but rather the perps.
phillyfan Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Dude somethin STINKS. Take it from a guy, he is not bein honest wit u.
silktricks Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I truly feel for you. Some people simply MUST always be in the limelight. If they can do this by playing the victim, that is what they do - constantly. There is, unfortunately, little that you can do. You basically have 2 choices: 1. Let her win, break up and each go seek a new relationship 2. Let her do what she will. Live your own life and let her rant and rave. As long as your guy set up a reasonable visitation schedule during the divorce, he will be able to see his kids on that schedule. I would venture to say that he will never be able to vary from the schedule by the slightest degree, though - not unless she eventually finds some new way to be the center of her own personal whirlwind. Unfortunately, most people in our society have been "taught" by the media to believe the person who plays the victim most effectively. It would be nice if people were less gullible and more capable of rational thought, but unfortunately, it seems that most people like nothing as much as thinking the worst of as many people as possible. I wish you the best.
fooled once Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I've posted here before, but am setting up a new profile for this as an added measure of protection with all that is now happening. Brief recap: I am OW, met the love of my life years ago through mutual friends. His marriage was very unstable, eventually ended, D was final several months ago. During the falling apart of his marriage my ex and I were divorcing, and we WERE together before it was legally appropriate. As a mutual friend of his 'BS' I saw first hand how she would spin stories, change emails, play the victim, and overall make him look like an awful person. I couldn't SAY anything at the time because in order to know and have access to the other side, I would be making our relationship clear. They decided to divorce before she knew about he and I, and she was already dating and 'in love' with her boyfriend. Then she found out about he and I, started calling it an affair, and what I KNEW was going to happen began to take place. Manipulations about the situation, contacting mutual friends and spinning an entirely false story, blogging publicly, etc. We have taken the high road during this time, and have not replied...figuring that the ones that care enough to know the real story will seek it out. And many have. Fast forward a few months and she insisted that we not have any contact during their divorce process, and in order to minimize any drama (and to follow the advice of both of our therapists) we complied and went NC. She told him several times that as long as he stayed away from me, that he could have full access to the kids. But if he resumed contact she would hold him to the decreed visitation (meanwhile, blogging about how wonderful, understanding, supportive, etc she is). Last week he told her he was going to resume contact with me, and she flipped. Her blog did a complete 180 and began telling about how selfish, awful, corrupt he is. She is saying that we've been in contact this entire time, poor her, etc. A few of our mutual friends are still in contact with me, and I found out yesterday that she is back to her old tricks...forwarding emails she says are from him, portraying that he wants her back, that she can't get him to leave her alone, etc. Which is sad and disturbing, because the entire weekend was spend with her texting him abusive, awful texts such as "you'll never make enough money for her, you're not attractive enough or good enough in bed for her. she's going to leave you, you're an idiot for not seeing this". Now, MY blood boils to see the man that I love being treated this way. I saw it happen during the years of friendship (called her on it often, and was belittled for speaking out against her whenever I did), and while HE doesn't let it affect how he views himself or even really cares about what she says, and this is his battle to fight. I am truly concerned about her mental health. She tweets about how we rub our relationship in her face (which is a week-old resumed friendship at this point, and hasn't been mentioned publicly AT ALL), how we try to beat her down, break her, manipulate HER, etc. Her fans rally around and support and encourage her, and no one knows the real story (those that have cared enough to ask are horrified by the reality of what he/we are dealing with). Today's drama revolves around an email she sent that says that she has decided to revoke their current visitation schedule, and if can see how above and beyond she has gone to support his relationship with the kids (ie-he was arriving at her house every morning at 6:30 to get the kids ready/feed breakfast/make lunches so she could get ready for work...this was revoked when he began contacting me) he will agree. Otherwise she's threatening court. It's just constant, this twisting, manipulative behavior fueled by her anger and hatred. She has been dx as bipolar and borderline, and is on several medications. OUR hands are semi-tied because no one that she sends these propaganda type emails to, or reads her blog, will hear us as anything other than revengeful people that ruined her life and continue to torture her. But honestly? I've known her for years. YEARS. She is NOT stable. She is emotionally, verbally, and recently physically abusive towards her ex (my friend/bf). She seems to be worsening, and I worry for their kids, for her well being, and for exactly how much damage she will be able to wreak before the truth starts to get out. I"m not sure what I"m asking for...I know there's not a lot that can be done without stooping to her level or looking like crazies ourselves. Just needed to vent. 2 questions: 1. According to another poster, you continuing to check HER blog equates to you stalking her. WHY are you continuing to check HER blog? 2. Your hands aren't tied. The kids are not yours. They are his and hers. He SHOULD go to court and get visitation - he is choosing to NOT do that. No court in the world is going to limit his visitation because she wants it; UNLESS she has proof he is not protecting his kids or is harming them. She COULD get a clause that restricts him from having YOU sleep over when he has the kids; but she can't take away his visitation unless he is an unfit father. If he bothered to research it, or get a lawyer, he would know this. You know of her; you and her weren't friends. Because friends don't sleep with friends husbands. She may be having mental issues; but that isn't up for you to decide nor for you to diagnose. IF she is bi-polar, she would have an official diagnosis, which I am pretty sure you weren't there for at the doctors office. Many bi-polar people are medicated; many cannot - CANNOT - control what their brains do. I know this because I had a very very dear friend who was bi-polar. He died, almost 3 years ago, from a brain anurysm. Bi-polar is not funny, it isn't someone just being a b*tch or mean - it is a true deblitating disease and isn't a term to throw around when someone doesn't like the way another person acts. (not that you did). let your "boyfriend" fight his own battles.
fooled once Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 she is on meds, has a therapist and a psychiatrist, and is currently in a manic phase. She'll cycle back around soon, though I fear a fallout is coming. Hopefully her ability to vent on her blog (as skewed and untrue as her rants are) will continue to help her let go and heal instead of fixate and spiral. Remember also - there are 3 sides to every story - his, hers and the truth. YOU may view her blog as lies, but that doesn't mean that isn't how SHE sees it. Just as so many OW feel they are the 'true' love of the MM, when he decides to stay with the wife, it shows how skewed views can be IF she is truly diagnosed as bi-polar, I have a huge issue with you knowing her medical issues (therapists, medications, etc). How would you like it if someone you hated knew your personal business? Shame on her former H for filling your head with her medical issues. Shame on him for what he has done to contribute to her mental illness by lying, gaslighting and betraying her. If you really do want to start looking at this differently, learn about bi-polar. Instead of throwing it around as why she acts 'crazy', learn about it and realize no one WANTS to be that way and I bet if she could, which she can't, she would no longer BE bi-polar. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, even my H's ex who I despise!!
Author Gracerella Posted January 19, 2011 Author Posted January 19, 2011 This... Doesn't add up with this.... If all these friends are 'mutual', then they've got to be very aware of her mental issues. Bipolar and borderline are impossible to miss. If they're all aware of her mental state, and things are as bad as you've described, why on Earth would they view you and him that way? Non sequiter When you are only hearing one side of the story, and what you are being told is SO awful and incredibly horrific, and the person telling you is just that good at playing the victim...this is VERY possible. We're living it.
Author Gracerella Posted January 19, 2011 Author Posted January 19, 2011 I truly feel for you. Some people simply MUST always be in the limelight. If they can do this by playing the victim, that is what they do - constantly. There is, unfortunately, little that you can do. You basically have 2 choices: 1. Let her win, break up and each go seek a new relationship 2. Let her do what she will. Live your own life and let her rant and rave. As long as your guy set up a reasonable visitation schedule during the divorce, he will be able to see his kids on that schedule. I would venture to say that he will never be able to vary from the schedule by the slightest degree, though - not unless she eventually finds some new way to be the center of her own personal whirlwind. Unfortunately, most people in our society have been "taught" by the media to believe the person who plays the victim most effectively. It would be nice if people were less gullible and more capable of rational thought, but unfortunately, it seems that most people like nothing as much as thinking the worst of as many people as possible. I wish you the best. Thank you. I agree with this wholeheartedly. And #2 is exactly right...he won't be able to vary. She is her own personal whirlwind (what a great description)...thankfully there are so many that are starting to feel 'over' the constant drama and seek us out, and are then able to better see the situation for what it is, not how she portrays it. I've settled a bit since venting about this...just have periods of time when I am so over hearing what she's saying, the completely fabricated truth, and feeling muzzled out of a desire to NOT engage in the drama, but choose instead to just live our life. I am back on the zen-side of things, assisted mostly by seeing how well he handled this last round of spiraling, his newfound ability to initiate and enforce boundaries, and seeing him grow stronger and more capable every day that he is away from her. The threats are just that, with very little ability to actually do anything (and a very real possibility of things moving back towards his favor if she did want to change things). as for her diagnosis, she has discussed with me herself. THis is not hearsay, gossip, or being used maliciously against her. She has hidden it from her audience for years, and to find a way to tell the WHOLE truth would only increase the drama and hurt someone that has been through so much. I wouldn't engage in that type of tit-for-tat (hence, an anonymous board ) Thanks for all of the constructive thoughts and advice. I do appreciate it! Soldiering on...
Recommended Posts