depplover_1980 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 It's going back and forth now things are being repeated, but my views remain the same. Love should be about acceptance and being with the other person, not obsessing over timeframes. The OP is heading for a fall and the guy is right in backing off as she is more concerned with her 'ambitions' than his wants or needs - men are wonderful at smelling desperation, it is like an inbuilt radar sensor.
Lauriebell82 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Parading around all insecure??? Seriously? Wanting to know where you stand is not being insecure. Getting a straight answer from him is not being "desperate to tie him down". Not after his previous statements. And if he's backing off, there's no sense in wasting time on him. The guy should be more in love at this point - not less. And I think 5 years is unreasonable. If he doesn't know by 2 years - forget it. And you think if she really loved him she should do whatever he wants - including giving up children? WTF! That's just crazy. And you call HER selfish?? The "2 year rule" is stupid. Not everyone is ready to get married at 2 years exactly, my husband did not propose until 2 years and 9 months. We were together for over 4 years before we actually did get married. The OP is 26, not 35. Her biological clock is NOT ticking, therefore she does not have to be in a huge rush to force a man to marry her. I was 24 when I started dating my boyfriend and I wanted to get married after like a year or so and have kids before I turned 30. It didn't happen that way and I'm thankful for that. I wasn't ready like I thought I was. I'm glad we waited to get married. I will most likely be 29 or 30 when I give birth to my first child and that is just fine with me. Please try to keep in mind, that if you really love this man, you will not let your "age" get you all tripped up. You have plenty of time to have children, enjoy your relationship and your life! You will miss out on a lot if you don't.
Woggle Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I can read in between the lines here, I know woman speak....so all your friends are getting married and starting kids now and you dont want to feel left behind eh? So your bf has to be the victim of your competitiveness? Youre obviously not really in love with the guy if youre ready to drop him to quickly, you do realize if you start over with someone else, you will still have to wait ANOTHER two years to make sure everythings right dontcha? I agree and when her friends start getting divorced and leaving their husbands she might follow the pack as well. Some women do things in groups.
Woggle Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 If a woman has a kid why would she worry about finding a man anyway?
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Depends on the person and their situation. Anyway, assuming that no one will shame them for it, that doesn't mean that they should, or that they shouldn't look for something better. Ok... I think we are looking at different scenarios, which is why this is so confusing. I am talking about the OP's situation. Where she has a loving and committed BF who just doesn't want to get married right away. Commitment and marriage are two completely separate concepts. A man can be married and still uncommitted. I know of two such guys, both having mistresses. No, you misunderstood me. I said that a married woman doesn't "have to deal with the struggles of being a single mom", such as looking for a man, when having a child makes that harder. That is because they already have one. I'm not talking about cheating at all. Just because a couple is married doesn't mean that the man will help with the kids. I don't think marriage makes one bit of difference. Additionally, just because the parents are not married does not mean the mother must go searching for a man who will marry her. We should not assume that a marriage certificate is required for people to have and raise children together. It is tradition that people get married before having children. Personally, I do want to be married before having kids, and there's nothing wrong with that. Traditionally people didn't get divorced... marriage actually meant something. Today it's just a pointless financial contract. Only religious people have any real reason to keep it. If that's the case, it's probably because they don't have to try as hard because they feel that they've already won the guy over. It would be a shame if they really completely stopped making an effort though. That goes for the guy too-- he should keep making an effort in the marriage too. Yes, many men stop working on the relationship as well. The only difference is that they start working again later if needed, where women often just file for divorce... or put in a very half ass effort then divorce. In response to the bolded section: they should! In the same way, a husband can place higher expectations on a wife than a girlfriend. However, it's true that people shouldn't go too far with that and strain the relationship that way. Why? Why should you expect different things of a husband than of a BF? That seems foolish, because you are literally marrying someone with the expectation that they will change. Has that not been proven disastrous in nearly every instance? My suggestion to you is this. Find a BF that meets your expectations. Don't plan on using marriage to make him change. You will just wind up hurting yourself and him.
I Luv the Chariot OH Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 OP, before I offer an opinion, could you relate the relevance of this thread to your current situation? The timeline has me a bit confused and I need some clarity first. Ummmmm what? Are you a troll, or did you actually just cheat on your man and still expect him to marry you???
GooseChaser Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Okay, let's simplify this a little. Can we agree that it's beneficial for children to have a loving, dedicated father figure?
Lauriebell82 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Ummmmm what? Are you a troll, or did you actually just cheat on your man and still expect him to marry you??? Well, that was in May '10. So we are unsure if she is talking about her current boyfriend here that she cheated on back then... I'm guessing she probably never told me either.
carhill Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Ummmmm what? Are you a troll, or did you actually just cheat on your man and still expect him to marry you??? My historical read is that the OP, a long-time member, rarely participates actively in the threads she starts. It appears she merely takes the information she needs and moves on. I don't think it's trolling. Hope it works out for her.
Jazzari Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 In light of new information, I take back everything I said. There is no way you should be pushing for marriage. Maybe this would explain the backtracking by your boyfriend.
Lauriebell82 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 It's interesting, because the last time she posted (prior to this thread) was the cheating thread back in May '10.
depplover_1980 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 In light of new information, I take back everything I said. There is no way you should be pushing for marriage. Maybe this would explain the backtracking by your boyfriend. Lol. I'm going to like you.
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Okay, let's simplify this a little. Can we agree that it's beneficial for children to have a loving, dedicated father figure? Yes, we can solidly agree on that. Is this going to be the Socratic method of debate?
Jazzari Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Lol. I'm going to like you. Snicker... Does this mean we have a committment? How do you feel about children? Just kidding!
GooseChaser Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Yes, we can solidly agree on that. Is this going to be the Socratic method of debate? Nah, it was just a thought that occurred to me, and I thought it was a good question. I'm not trying to do any logic-twists or anything. It just illustrates one reason why it is important to women to get married (especially before having kids) besides monetary support-- a father for the children. I didn't know about the Socratic method before this; I'm reading about it now, and it's interesting.
depplover_1980 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Snicker... Does this mean we have a committment? How do you feel about children? Just kidding! Well as I'm getting on a bit we should only date for 3 years, married for 2 and children when I am 35?
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Nah, it was just a thought that occurred to me, and I thought it was a good question. I'm not trying to do any logic-twists or anything. It just illustrates one reason why it is important to women to get married (especially before having kids) besides monetary support-- a father for the children. I didn't know about the Socratic method before this; I'm reading about it now, and it's interesting. Goose, I know I've said this before, but you are kind, patient, nice, and all other types of good things. I might disagree with you from time to time... sometimes with more venom than is required, but you are one poster I have a lot of respect for! I am a 30yo professional. All the guys around me at my age or higher are divorced. I'd say only like 25% are still married to their first wife. I was married at 20 and divorced at 23... so I've been through it too. I think that clearly shows there is something massively wrong with the system/institution. I've been trying to calculate using statistics the actual probability of a single marriage from 2000 lasting 40 years. As far as I can gather it's around 20%, and if you remove people who are extremely religious like Mormons... it's closer to 11%.
GooseChaser Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Goose, I know I've said this before, but you are kind, patient, nice, and all other types of good things. I might disagree with you from time to time... sometimes with more venom than is required, but you are one poster I have a lot of respect for! I am a 30yo professional. All the guys around me at my age or higher are divorced. I'd say only like 25% are still married to their first wife. I was married at 20 and divorced at 23... so I've been through it too. I think that clearly shows there is something massively wrong with the system/institution. I've been trying to calculate using statistics the actual probability of a single marriage from 2000 lasting 40 years. As far as I can gather it's around 20%, and if you remove people who are extremely religious like Mormons... it's closer to 11%. Thanks. Yeah, the rates of marriage failure these days are unfortunate. For sure...
Woggle Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Okay, let's simplify this a little. Can we agree that it's beneficial for children to have a loving, dedicated father figure? I agree and I am glad to hear women finally admitting this.
Woggle Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Goose, I know I've said this before, but you are kind, patient, nice, and all other types of good things. I might disagree with you from time to time... sometimes with more venom than is required, but you are one poster I have a lot of respect for! I am a 30yo professional. All the guys around me at my age or higher are divorced. I'd say only like 25% are still married to their first wife. I was married at 20 and divorced at 23... so I've been through it too. I think that clearly shows there is something massively wrong with the system/institution. I've been trying to calculate using statistics the actual probability of a single marriage from 2000 lasting 40 years. As far as I can gather it's around 20%, and if you remove people who are extremely religious like Mormons... it's closer to 11%. This is very true plus of the marriages that do stay together many of them are miserable.
Jazzari Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Well as I'm getting on a bit we should only date for 3 years, married for 2 and children when I am 35? Bwahahahahahahahaha! I do like you.
Eeyore79 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 This isn't 1850 nobody is going to make you wear a scarlet letter for having a child and not being married. We should not assume that a marriage certificate is required for people to have and raise children together. Several people have mentioned that the OP can still have children without being married, and don't seem to understand that this is unacceptable to some people. My (very traditional and respectable) parents would be utterly humiliated if I produced an illegitimate child, and my elderly grandmother would probably have a heart attack and die of shame. I'd feel pretty humiliated myself - in fact I'd probably have an abortion if I was pregnant and unmarried, even if I was in a LTR. I know single motherhood is acceptable in society nowadays, but among certain groups of people it's still considered unrespectable and embarassing. OP, it seems like your bf was all talk, and now he's backtracking. He's not ready for marriage despite being 30, which is a worry in itself as it makes me question his maturity. I can understand that he might want to wait another year before he proposes, but another four years is ridiculous - as others have said, if he changes his mind you could be left high and dry aged 30, and would have to start all over again going through the dating-relationship-marriage cycle. I dated my ex for two years in my mid-twenties, and he didn't propose and said he wasn't ready for marriage, so I ended the relationship. He's now aged 33 and has a long-term gf but is still unmarried, which just demonstrates that he isn't prepared to commit to someone no matter how old he is. I haven't been lucky enough to find a man to marry, but at least I had a chance - if I'd stayed with my ex I'd have had no chance. I think you need to make it clear to your bf that you're going to move on if the relationship doesn't progress within a normal timescale. Two years seems like more than enough time to decide whether you want to marry someone or not.
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 This is very true plus of the marriages that do stay together many of them are miserable. That is part of the issue... the one reason people give for staying together is for the kids. The vision it conjures -- of loveless, bitter, tight-lipped martyrs living in hell with their equally miserable kids. Fact is that divorce Highly favors the leaving spouse because of No Fault laws. Statistically it's said that 80% of divorces are unilateral, meaning it isn't a mutual choice to divorce. I know that I will probably give it another shot... but damn it seems like I have a better shot winning at roulette!
Imajerk17 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) WTF is wrong with so many of the women on here? {censored myself and took out the names to keep it civil} Two women on here in the past week are pushing their boyfriends for commitments while cheating or having cheated on them. As a guy, I'm finding this both sad and repulsive. Crazy... Edited January 18, 2011 by Imajerk17
Nexus One Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 WTF is wrong with so many of the women on here? {censored myself and took out the names to keep it civil} Two women on here in the past week are pushing their boyfriends for commitments while cheating or having cheated on them. As a guy, I'm finding this both sad and repulsive. Crazy... Those women could be sociopaths. Sociopaths can inflict pain or suffering on a person without being able to register that the person they are hurting is in pain or suffering. So they can go on doing that endlessly without ever realizing they're doing anything wrong. Sociopaths also like money, power, pleasure and winning and they'll lie to accomplish those goals. Both men and women can be sociopaths and it seems to be quite common throughout society.
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