depplover_1980 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I personally find it sad and robotic that having children with anyone that fits the bill is a life ambition. I am 30, I would like children but only when the time is right. If that time does not come I will either adopt or accept that another path awaits me. Too many people settle and then have relationship problems which creates a bad environment for the children, who did not ask to be born. I want I want, a selfish attitude really - the world is harsh enough as it is and children need the best possible foundation in life.
Jazzari Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I personally find it sad and robotic that having children with anyone that fits the bill is a life ambition. I am 30, I would like children but only when the time is right. If that time does not come I will either adopt or accept that another path awaits me. Too many people settle and then have relationship problems which creates a bad environment for the children, who did not ask to be born. I want I want, a selfish attitude really - the world is harsh enough as it is and children need the best possible foundation in life. The OP said she loved this man "with all her heart". How does that equate to "anyone that fits the bill"?
depplover_1980 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 If she really loved this man with all her heart, then she would respect and understand he is taking a little longer to want to make this very serious commitment. But then that would depend on what we both define as love wouldn't it? I suspect it would somewhat differ.
GooseChaser Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Wait... so your just worried about having kids before 30. Last time I checked you are allowed to get pregnant without a marriage certificate. So your freaking out about the wrong question. Who cares when he decides to marry you. If you HAVE to have that to be with him... then it isn't love. Instead ask him when he wants to have kids. Sounds like a recipe for becoming a single mom.
Jazzari Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 If she really loved this man with all her heart, then she would respect and understand he is taking a little longer to want to make this very serious commitment. But then that would depend on what we both define as love wouldn't it? I suspect it would somewhat differ. "A little longer"? I wouldn't call 4 years, a little longer. He's given her conflicting stories about what he wants. There is nothing wrong with trying to get clarification on his feelings and let him know what she wants. She states she's looking for a compromise as she believe's they both love each other. To me, that would be true love. Where BOTH parties are willing to give a little.
Lauriebell82 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 It sounds like a lot of this is dependent on children. Why are you in such a hurry to have children? It's a huge responsibility. You HAVE only been together for 9 months, so it's fair that your boyfriend may not be ready to get married yet. I have to say "talking about marriage" (i.e. "I wish we could just go to the courhouse") is completely different then actually planning a wedding and getting married. How does your boyfriend feel about children? I'm assuming you are traditional and would not have children out of wedlock correct? If so, then what is the difference between having children at 28 or 30? Your risk of birth defects doesn't go up until your like 36 at least. I can understand wanting to get married, I have been there, done that. But take it from me, if you don't calm down and relax you could miss out on marrying an amazing man (your boyfriend). Do you have friends who are getting married and having children? Is that why you are in a rush?
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Sounds like a recipe for becoming a single mom. Is that bad now? I fail to see the difference between being a single mom because of a divorce and because of a LTR breakup. Let's be honest. Female commitment levels tend to go way, way down after marriage.
GooseChaser Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Is that bad now? I fail to see the difference between being a single mom because of a divorce and because of a LTR breakup. Let's be honest. Female commitment levels tend to go way, way down after marriage. Wouldn't you say that single moms have a much harder time with men? They often prefer women without kids. You're right that biologically, nothing is stopping women from having kids out of marriage. However, socially, it's not really approved of. Marriage brings a few benefits to women who want children. For one thing, they don't have to deal with the struggles of being a single mom looking for a man. Second, they have someone who loves them and has promised to be with and support them through good and bad times, and there is less chance that the man will leave them, compared to having a child out of wedlock, where nothing is stopping the man from leaving. Raising children is hard work, and marriage gives a good foundation for a stable family for the children. I wouldn't know, as I am young and unmarried, though I'd argue that I wouldn't be that way. Still, though, isn't marriage the definition of commitment?
depplover_1980 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 "A little longer"? I wouldn't call 4 years, a little longer. He's given her conflicting stories about what he wants. There is nothing wrong with trying to get clarification on his feelings and let him know what she wants. She states she's looking for a compromise as she believe's they both love each other. To me, that would be true love. Where BOTH parties are willing to give a little. Which would in total mean they had been together 5 years when they marry, which is a very sensible and reasonable amount of time to be together and save for a future. She comes across as needy and desperate while he is sensible and perhaps setting the foundations. He made a mistake in the first flush of lust with marriage talk, caught up in the hype as many many do, but such moments are not cheques to cash. 9 months in he is saying that in 4 years he would like to marry - this is very honest of him. If she really loved him and felt he loved her instead of parading round all insecure she would enjoy her life with him. But she senses her days are numbered, so is desperate to tie him down without realising her selfish behaviour is pushing him away. I have been that person.
sweetjasmine Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Sounds like a recipe for becoming a single mom. Yes, one of those people that guys on this forum said they would never touch with a 10 foot pole because single moms are irresponsible, reckless psychos with a ton of baggage.
GooseChaser Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I'll just post this as an "edit" to the end of my previous post. Wasn't fast enough... Female commitment levels tend to go way, way down after marriage. I wouldn't know, as I am young and unmarried, though I'd argue that I wouldn't be that way, and I'm sure many others would too. Still, though, isn't marriage the definition of commitment?
GooseChaser Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Yes, one of those people that guys on this forum said they would never touch with a 10 foot pole because single moms are irresponsible, reckless psychos with a ton of baggage. Eeeexactly!
depplover_1980 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Eeeexactly! Is this a joke? Bit of a harsh general statement otherwise.
GooseChaser Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Is this a joke? Bit of a harsh general statement otherwise. I'm not sure what you mean, but we're commenting on men's stated opinions on this forum about the topic. I don't have anything against single moms.
depplover_1980 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I'm not sure what you mean, but we're commenting on men's stated opinions on this forum about the topic. I don't have anything against single moms. Do men really say that? Mind you as per this thread starter it only takes one obsessive, or psycho to give the rest of us a bad name!
Jazzari Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 If she really loved him and felt he loved her instead of parading round all insecure she would enjoy her life with him. But she senses her days are numbered, so is desperate to tie him down without realising her selfish behaviour is pushing him away. I have been that person.Parading around all insecure??? Seriously? Wanting to know where you stand is not being insecure. Getting a straight answer from him is not being "desperate to tie him down". Not after his previous statements. And if he's backing off, there's no sense in wasting time on him. The guy should be more in love at this point - not less. And I think 5 years is unreasonable. If he doesn't know by 2 years - forget it. And you think if she really loved him she should do whatever he wants - including giving up children? WTF! That's just crazy. And you call HER selfish??
tinktronik Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 If he doesn't at least propose by 27 you should end it. You know what you want and you shouldn't have to wait for him to figure out what he wants. Good advice. I agree.
depplover_1980 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Parading around all insecure??? Seriously? Wanting to know where you stand is not being insecure. Getting a straight answer from him is not being "desperate to tie him down". Not after his previous statements. And if he's backing off, there's no sense in wasting time on him. The guy should be more in love at this point - not less. And I think 5 years is unreasonable. If he doesn't know by 2 years - forget it. And you think if she really loved him she should do whatever he wants - including giving up children? WTF! That's just crazy. And you call HER selfish?? Are you implying that I am selfish when I have nothing to do with their situation? That would be nonsensical. We just have very different opinions on these things - to me 5 years of relationship, a couple which would be engaged no doubt and then married is reasonable. If you are to spend forever together what is the rush? Even with your logic of 2 years surely you mean for him to propose within that time? Say it took a year to save and then organise, then you would be marrying within a similar time period. On the subject of children he is hardly selling her short as she will only be 30 when they marry; if she looks after her health that leaves adequate baby time. Irrational female behaviour.
carhill Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 This:He'd tell me he wishes we could run away and get married or head down to the court house.Are the time-tested and proven words of obfuscation; words designed to create a romantic image of the future within the woman and to, combined with sexual aggression, elicit the early and complete bonding chemical secretions. It 'hooks' the woman. Any man who is successful with women knows this. Here, the OP is having 'second thoughts' now that the words and actions aren't matching up; this is a critical period. The smart man gives a little to keep the secretions going but leaves the future a bit ambiguous. BF is failing here, IMO. He should have segued into an indefinite timeline, augmented by terms of endearment to keep the image of their future alive. 'When we were dating, you said 'xxxxx' (the quote at the top of the post). Why has that feeling changed? I invested a lot of myself based on what your words and actions presented to me, especially your desire to discuss marriage in those terms. I'm feeling <pick your relevant feeling>.'Listen. I'll join those who support the OP setting a realistic timeline for a proposal. The man in question is 30. He's a mature man who evidently has no problems with discussing marriage, even in the early stages of dating, and running to the courthouse. Good on him. Hope it works out
Jazzari Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Are you implying that I am selfish when I have nothing to do with their situation? That would be nonsensical. Of course not. I'm saying that her SO would be selfish in asking her to wait that long knowing that it would ruin her chances of having children. We just have very different opinions on these things - to me 5 years of relationship, a couple which would be engaged no doubt and then married is reasonable. If you are to spend forever together what is the rush? It depends on your age. If you are older and want to have children, then there is a limited amount of time. Even with your logic of 2 years surely you mean for him to propose within that time? Say it took a year to save and then organise, then you would be marrying within a similar time period. What? Are you saying they would have a 3 year engagement? That doesn't make sense to me. Once you decide to get married - do it. What would be the point in waiting? On the subject of children he is hardly selling her short as she will only be 30 when they marry; if she looks after her health that leaves adequate baby time. Sure. IF he hasn't changed his mind. And the way he's acting, I would have a hard time trusting him. If he does change his mind, she's screwed. And again, if they are in love and he wants children - why wait so long? Give it another year then go for it. That gives them plenty of time for a marriage by themselves, and then children.
GooseChaser Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Do men really say that? Mind you as per this thread starter it only takes one obsessive, or psycho to give the rest of us a bad name! I've seen it on a few occasions. I have no idea how widespread the idea is though.
depplover_1980 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Of course not. I'm saying that her SO would be selfish in asking her to wait that long knowing that it would ruin her chances of having children. It depends on your age. If you are older and want to have children, then there is a limited amount of time. What? Are you saying they would have a 3 year engagement? That doesn't make sense to me. Once you decide to get married - do it. What would be the point in waiting? Sure. IF he hasn't changed his mind. And the way he's acting, I would have a hard time trusting him. If he does change his mind, she's screwed. And again, if they are in love and he wants children - why wait so long? Give it another year then go for it. That gives them plenty of time for a marriage by themselves, and then children. But they aren't older, she only 26/27? Seriously I do not understand what the rush is in this case, nor why you would encourage this young woman she is correct by pushing so strongly for marriage. The average romance whilst in your twenties last 2 years, so it is more than sensible to wait and see how life maps out avoiding further heartache and divorce down the line. Many people have engagements that last a couple of years, or they certainly do in the UK - lots of planning and saving to do! I would agree on the biological rush regarding children if she were 35 and he were saying 4 years but it is no the case here. I strongly believe she is pushing him away because she has become boring and more obsessed with this issue than with the rest of her life, thus making her repetitive and unappealing. It is the mistake a large proportion of women make. Stay true to yourselves.
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Wouldn't you say that single moms have a much harder time with men? They often prefer women without kids. You're right that biologically, nothing is stopping women from having kids out of marriage. However, socially, it's not really approved of. Marriage brings a few benefits to women who want children. For one thing, they don't have to deal with the struggles of being a single mom looking for a man. Second, they have someone who loves them , and there is less chance that thand has promised to be with and support them through good and bad timese man will leave them, compared to having a child out of wedlock, where nothing is stopping the man from leaving. Raising children is hard work, and marriage gives a good foundation for a stable family for the children. I wouldn't know, as I am young and unmarried, though I'd argue that I wouldn't be that way. Still, though, isn't marriage the definition of commitment? This isn't 1850 nobody is going to make you wear a scarlet letter for having a child and not being married. Why would she be dating? If they are living together and have a child together, but are not married. Are you advocating cheating in that situation? I don't get it. What I get from that is you feel if there isn't some sort of legal or financial constraint on a man to keep him from leaving... that you won't feel comfortable having children? I know you are young and have not been married before. The fact is that most women... not all... but most women put much less effort into a marriage than they do dating. Additionally they often place higher expectations on a Husband than a BF... most of the time to the detriment of the relationship. Yes, one of those people that guys on this forum said they would never touch with a 10 foot pole because single moms are irresponsible, reckless psychos with a ton of baggage. What that thread really established in my mind is that most relationship oriented men cared a lot more about WHY a woman was a single mom than the fact that she is. Divorcees got the lowest rating. You may have noticed that those who professed to not date single moms at all tended to be younger and less interested in commitment.
Jazzari Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 But they aren't older, she only 26/27? Seriously I do not understand what the rush is in this case, nor why you would encourage this young woman she is correct by pushing so strongly for marriage. The average romance whilst in your twenties last 2 years, so it is more than sensible to wait and see how life maps out avoiding further heartache and divorce down the line. I'm not pushing for marriage. I'm pushing her to find out where her guy stands and why he is backing off. If you read my posts, you would see I have advocated waiting longer. Just not 4 years longer. Many people have engagements that last a couple of years, or they certainly do in the UK - lots of planning and saving to do! Ugh. And that's all I have to say about that. Total waste of time and money. I would agree on the biological rush regarding children if she were 35 and he were saying 4 years but it is no the case here. By his clock, she will be 30 when they get married. She wants to be married a few years before having children. Let's say 35. It would be pushing it, but it would work. The problem is if the guy leads her on and doesn't see it through. He's already shown that he changes his mind on the subject. So when she is 30 - he backs out. The chances of her finding love and getting married within a time frame that allows her to have children is minimal. I strongly believe she is pushing him away because she has become boring and more obsessed with this issue than with the rest of her life, thus making her repetitive and unappealing. It is the mistake a large proportion of women make. Stay true to yourselves. Stay true to yourself is good advice. So what about all the things the man said early on about marriage and children? Doesn't sound like he is staying true at all. Sounds like he was all talk and when it came down to actually doing something about it, he runs. Not someone I would want to take a risk on. Having a serious conversation and finding out why he changed the tune is not unreasonable.
GooseChaser Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) This isn't 1850 nobody is going to make you wear a scarlet letter for having a child and not being married. Depends on the person and their situation. Anyway, assuming that no one will shame them for it, that doesn't mean that they should, or that they shouldn't look for something better. Why would she be dating? If they are living together and have a child together, but are not married. Are you advocating cheating in that situation? I don't get it. No, you misunderstood me. I said that a married woman doesn't "have to deal with the struggles of being a single mom", such as looking for a man, when having a child makes that harder. That is because they already have one. I'm not talking about cheating at all. What I get from that is you feel if there isn't some sort of legal or financial constraint on a man to keep him from leaving... that you won't feel comfortable having children? It is tradition that people get married before having children. Personally, I do want to be married before having kids, and there's nothing wrong with that. I know you are young and have not been married before. The fact is that most women... not all... but most women put much less effort into a marriage than they do dating. If that's the case, it's probably because they don't have to try as hard because they feel that they've already won the guy over. It would be a shame if they really completely stopped making an effort though. That goes for the guy too-- he should keep making an effort in the marriage too. Additionally they often place higher expectations on a Husband than a BF... most of the time to the detriment of the relationship. In response to the bolded section: they should! In the same way, a husband can place higher expectations on a wife than a girlfriend. However, it's true that people shouldn't go too far with that and strain the relationship that way. Edited January 17, 2011 by GooseChaser
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