Mad Max Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I was on the debate team. Your statements show that dating to you is YOU interviewing them. You fancy yourself the boss and they a potential employee. You pay them (the wooing) and take note of their performance until you decide they are not qualified for the job and fire them. But you find being in their shoes, being the one being interviewed, unacceptable. I respect that you claim you live up to the standards you seek, but you clearly don't like being in the position of the one being scrutinized, evaluated, and compared. You like to believe that, no matter the open position they are offering - you're already oh so qualified. No point in a debate here. It is what it is. Whats the point of denying it? And you obviously did not do so well on the debate team. We're discussing a woman's sexual past and you go and quote from another thread where my quote involves dating. Not even the topic we're discussing, but one that has absolutely no merit right now. If you're going to quote me, then make sure it's relevant to the discussion at hand. If you want to compare me, go right ahead. Not sure why you'd want to, but please make my day.
sally4sara Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 And you obviously did not do so well on the debate team. We're discussing a woman's sexual past and you go and quote from another thread where my quote involves dating. Not even the topic we're discussing, but one that has absolutely no merit right now. If you're going to quote me, then make sure it's relevant to the discussion at hand. If you want to compare me, go right ahead. Not sure why you'd want to, but please make my day. I did very well thanks. If this is a sampling of your deductive skills, I'd worry if you'll ever be able to assess anyone accurately for the job you're trying to fill. I'm not trying to date you so comparing you isn't of interest to me. No one compares to my husband anyway. Dating and sex have everything to do with each other because people date to find relationship partners and people have sex in their relationships. And some people date only in the interest of having sex regardless of any chance at a relationship. Are you trying to say you don't date people you want to have sex with? That would be of interest to me because I've never met someone who dates while having zero interest in having sex with the person they are dating. Of wait, yes I have! They're called friends and its called socializing - not dating. At which point, the person's sexual past is irrelevant because you won't be having sex with them.
Akumark Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Always fun to read Mad Max and East7! For me it was an unhealthy curiosity and GOD I made myself completely crazy with those questions because I always want to know more. It's not just how many have you been with (this I don't care). It's what positions, what did he do, how did you feel...and after it's was it better than mine (awful question I know), did he have a big **** (lol, that I don't care to) and it keep going and going until I become completely brain damaged by all the perv stuff hahahah Conclusion I don't ask any question now exept : Do you have STD (wait for answer) then I say that I don't (I don't). I just keep myself sane by not asking
denise_xo Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Always fun to read Mad Max and East7! For me it was an unhealthy curiosity and GOD I made myself completely crazy with those questions because I always want to know more. It's not just how many have you been with (this I don't care). It's what positions, what did he do, how did you feel...and after it's was it better than mine (awful question I know), did he have a big **** (lol, that I don't care to) and it keep going and going until I become completely brain damaged by all the perv stuff hahahah Conclusion I don't ask any question now exept : Do you have STD (wait for answer) then I say that I don't (I don't). I just keep myself sane by not asking :lmao:
Mad Max Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Always fun to read Mad Max and East7! For me it was an unhealthy curiosity and GOD I made myself completely crazy with those questions because I always want to know more. It's not just how many have you been with (this I don't care). It's what positions, what did he do, how did you feel...and after it's was it better than mine (awful question I know), did he have a big **** (lol, that I don't care to) and it keep going and going until I become completely brain damaged by all the perv stuff hahahah Conclusion I don't ask any question now exept : Do you have STD (wait for answer) then I say that I don't (I don't). I just keep myself sane by not asking Only way you'll know for sure is if you're both STD tested before having sex.
One Unicorn Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Your statements show that dating to you is YOU interviewing them. You fancy yourself the boss and they a potential employee. You pay them (the wooing) and take note of their performance until you decide they are not qualified for the job and fire them. But you find being in their shoes, being the one being interviewed, unacceptable. I respect that you claim you live up to the standards you seek, but you clearly don't like being in the position of the one being scrutinized, evaluated, and compared. You like to believe that, no matter the open position they are offering - you're already oh so qualified. Dating IS an interview, is it not? Even in a job interview, the potential employee is assessing the potential employer. Dating is a more level playing-field, of course. Each is interviewing (over a longer period of time) the other for a potential long-term relationship.
carhill Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Question heard: 'Do you have any STD's?' Answer: 'I don't know as I don't have a current test panel' BTW, as another support for being mindful of someone's sexual history, how does one keep their STD status current if they're moving from one sexual partner to another without substantial celibacy in between? I'm basing the question on knowledge of incubation periods as related to me by medical professionals. As this technology of detection is constantly changing, I need to update. OP, what are your feelings about this? Is this question uncomfortable?
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Quote: Originally Posted by Mad Max Dating is not an interview or shopping around. Dating is supposed to be fun. Yeah but here is you from another thread complaining about people treating dating like a job interview: I took that to mean dating within a relationship. Didn't you? I mean there is a very big difference between the first few dates and committed dating. If he were talking about the first few dates he would not have mentioned "shopping around". Quote: Originally Posted by Mad Max Tell that to employers and the justice system. But when it comes to a woman's past - well hell, you believe the opposite so much so its your tag line. I'm not exactly sure what you meant here... but sexual views should be like a screening tool for dating. Like having a 4 year degree is for employment. Unfortunately it's not a comfortable topic, so it comes up later once there is some serious interest. Which comes down the the real point. Why on earth would a woman who doesn't want to be judged based on her sexual behavior or misbehavior date a guy who thinks it's important? Why? Why do these women who 'have been with thousands of men... again and again' constantly try to pick up guys with low experience or confidence?
Jazzari Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Only way you'll know for sure is if you're both STD tested before having sex.I agree. If the partner is willing to have sex with you without telling, then they are probably going to lie when asked. I think wearing protection and then getting tested at some point is the only way to go.
sally4sara Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I'm not exactly sure what you meant here... Why do these women who 'have been with thousands of men... again and again' constantly try to pick up guys with low experience or confidence? Yes, it is clear that you don't understand what I'm talking about here. Well I know we're not talking about 'women who've been with thousands of men, again and again' or who they choose to date. We're talking about the OP and her BF's concern about her decidedly innocuous sexual past. I went on to muse about why he wouldn't look in to it when the information could have been asked for before the relationship even kicked off. What you've quoted by me was in regards to Max looking at the BF's concern as similar to how an employer would look at an applicant's employment history and found it reasonable. Which is fine, but funny when he has complained abut women treating him as though he were being interviewed. How we got from there to 'women who've been with thousands of men, again and again' is beyond me. She isn't like that. Her BF didn't ask her about that. WTF? sounds more porn fantasy than a common reality yet here we are talking about it. What were you doing all day UF?
lovelydemon Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 He definitely is asking a lot of very personal questions. If he feels that that type of questions are ok to be asked at this point of the relationship and none of you should feel uncomfortable about it, I would suggest he'd go first and tell me the exact number of people he slept with. (I'm sure it's gonna be way more than mine). Then I'd tell him my number (the truth). If he wants to know any details, he'd have to go first again and I'd ask him the same questions he wants to ask me (names, occupation, addresses , exact number of dates before sex). Maybe being on the other side of the interrogation will teach him how it feels to be talking about very private things.
USCGAviator Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I don't ask those questions. To me it's irrelevant as long as her virjana is clean
carhill Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 For two compatible people, such shared questioning can be an intimacy builder. For two incompatible people, it can be wonderfully good information about their incompatible perspectives and/or relationship styles. Neither perspective is right nor wrong. In the OP's case, her desire to be 'private' and not disclose is as valid as the gentleman's desire to inquire and/or share his history. I find sharing my own history has been a uniformly positive impetus to women voluntarily disclosing theirs. Each party processes that information in their own unique way. *How* they process that information is an important aspect of people-picking. OP, based on your read here, combined with your real-life experiences, do you feel this young man is incompatible? Why?
Mad Max Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I agree. If the partner is willing to have sex with you without telling, then they are probably going to lie when asked. I think wearing protection and then getting tested at some point is the only way to go. These days, using protection simply isn't enough. I refuse to sleep with someone without a full STD screening. I will not risk my health. It's mind boggling how so many people think they're fine just because they used a condom.
carhill Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Great point, MadMax, and another aspect of compatibility. This is why honest disclosure of perspective is key to a healthy relationship opportunity. If someone believes that a condom *is* the be-all and end-all of BC and STD protection, that's their truth. Their history will reflect actions taken on that truth. Acceptance is key
Mangomonkey Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Im not going to bother to read everything but theres a number of threads on this topic. My thing is when women get defensive about the past and such it makes me think they slept with over 50 men or some high number. You can believe me when i say that im not exaggerating on that because i actually know men and women who have higher numbers. Then i read the actual numbers of some of the folks on here and its between 3-7 or under 20. If thats the case then my question is. If your number is low. Whats the big deal? Me personally i prefer someone with a low number because it lets me know at least they don't just let anyone get in and get out. All of that builds my faith in that person for the longer term. just my two cents
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Yes, it is clear that you don't understand what I'm talking about here. Well I know we're not talking about 'women who've been with thousands of men, again and again' or who they choose to date. We're talking about the OP and her BF's concern about her decidedly innocuous sexual past. I went on to muse about why he wouldn't look in to it when the information could have been asked for before the relationship even kicked off. What you've quoted by me was in regards to Max looking at the BF's concern as similar to how an employer would look at an applicant's employment history and found it reasonable. Which is fine, but funny when he has complained abut women treating him as though he were being interviewed. How we got from there to 'women who've been with thousands of men, again and again' is beyond me. She isn't like that. Her BF didn't ask her about that. WTF? sounds more porn fantasy than a common reality yet here we are talking about it. What were you doing all day UF? That was a Blazing Saddles reference. You know the song Lili VonShtupp sings... "I'm so tired"? It was a joke. If OP is being truthful I don't think anyone would judge her poorly.
Author Sw3etdev1L Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 the thing is mango monkey,. my number is low. I wouldn't want my boyfriend to know about my sexual past because I love him so much I don't want him to have those images in his head. Because our relationship is now, and I love him now.. well I spoke to my boyfriend, about... that I was uncomfortable with those questions, because I love him and I want him to see me now as I am now... it's not about the amount of relationships but I don't want hiim to even think that I was with other people.. because it's him I love. And sometimes I wish I would have desired he was the first person in my life.. I don't want to let him be bothered by those thoughts on the now. But, he did say he loves me, and he is very in love with me and he doesnt mind.. that maybe he shouldn't have asked those questions in the first place. : )
Nexus One Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 because it's him I love. And sometimes I wish I would have desired he was the first person in my life. That little snippet right there will give him the peace of mind he was looking for.
carhill Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 OP, apologies for not reading some history before commenting, but I think it's possible that *how* you acquired those 'low numbers' has had more of a marked effect on your psychology, along with other life experiences, than the actual numbers themselves. I'm happy to read you and the young man have apparently worked through it. Be aware other dynamics like the topic of this thread will crop up in your relationship with him and/or other men in your future, so being able to handle 'uncomfortable' questions is a handy skill to develop. As TBF used to say, de-escalate; adjunct to that, communicate. Good luck
lamaman3 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) I'll repost my standard reply for guys suffering from Retroactive Jealousy as it seems to be relevant here as well: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I see the same problems over and over again on here - guys saying they have retroactive jealousy - as its euphemistically called here. They convince themselves that they are jealous of other guys who have had some sort of sexual relationship with their girlfriends. Misdiagnosis wont lead to a cure or the help they need. Now retroactive jealousy dosent sound so bad does it? Everyone gets jealous now and again right? Ever wonder why almost all the RJ jealousy cases here have to do with guys getting it and not girls? Are women really less jealous and competitve than men? Why do alot of these "jealous of gf's past" threads end up obsessing over little details? The answer is because all these threads about being "retroactively jealous" are not that at all. You are not suffering from retroactive jealousy - you are suffering from a raging Madonna/Whore complex. Wow - sounds alot worse now dosent it. "Hi I have a Madonna/Whore complex" dosent sound as accepting as "I have retroactive jealousy" - and thats a good thing - because it cuts to the heart of the psychological illness that is at the center of what these men suffer through. What is a Madonna/Whore complex? It means that you divide women into 2 categories - they are either Madonna's - virginal, sweet, caring, loving, innocent - or they are whores - defined by their horniness and sexual activity. Again - not quite as acceptable sounding as "retroactive jealousy." I have been there - trust me, I know its not rational, I know your mind plays tricks on you -but you guys have to realize that this attitude is actually something to be ASHAMED about. Women, for all their differences with men - dont differ that much with regards to the inherent sexuality that exists within every creature. Women are not either Maddonas or Whores - just like the man sitting in front of the computer screen right now reading this isnt a Madonna or a whore. You might love your family, be politically active, love your hobbies and friends, masturbate, be attracted to women, be sexually curious, be cruel sometimes and fight etc. etc. etc. Somehow women understand this more about men - they understand you got masturbate to pornography and its because youre a sexually healthy male and not becuase your a "immoral slut whore." They understand that your sexuality, as is everybodys, is incredibly strong and complex. When you say that you suffer from retroactive jealousy because your otherwise perfect girlfriend had x amount of sex partners before you - what you really should be saying is that you cant accept the fact that your girlfriend, like you - isnt a madonna. That she has a sexuality and an attraction to males that can be at times, independent of her love for you. Im sure this rings a bell to you guys - Im sure you think at times - how can my girl who is so loving and caring - want to just **** some guy? If youve ever felt that way - then you need to step back into reality. Everyone who is psychologically healthy has sex and wants to have sex and gets good feelings from having sex. Otherwise none of us would exist. Thats right - your sweet old grandma that bakes you cookies and knits you blankets - at one point some guy got turned on enough for her and they had sex - and hopefully she moaned and came and loved it. The same thing goes for your beloved mother. Your inability to understand that and accept that (reality) is the root cause of your problem. Many of you would like to think of their girlfriends as replacement mommies, loving them unconditionally just like their mommy did, and thats why you desexualize them and its so hard and painful to imagine them getting ****ed by another man. But if you let go of your delusion - the reality of the situation is that it is true that your girlfriend is just like your mom - but in the opposite way that you think. If your mom hadnt been a sexual creature exactly like your girlfriend is- you wouldnt exist. And yes, her sexuality is independent of whether they went on a date first or 2 dates or she did this or that. Everyone has a sexuality - by obsessing over the circumstances of her sexuality acted out (like whether she did xyz after only knowing a man xyz amount of time) you are trying to figure out which categorry she belongs in - Maddona or Whore - as if the circumstances of her sexuality acted out in real life would change or reflect her actual sexuality that is the same strong drive in every healthy human being - and would therefore make it less threatening for you. Would it ever cross YOUR mind to think how you could want to **** a girl and still be capable of love and a complex and attractive personality? Im not even talking about the blatant hippocrites who say that its ok for them to have sex quickly with a girl but the girl that did it with them is a whore. Im talking about the more subtle hippocrites - the "nice" guys and the "shy" guys who ask why they "waited" and "respected" their bodies if their girlfriends were out having sex and actually indulging in their natural sexual curiosity. I dare any one of you - please come on here and tell me that whenever you were single for whatever period of time - that you never ever masturbated. Im sure some of you have been single for periods of weeks, months, years. You never felt sexual during that time or masturbated? And if you did masturbate (or should I say when you did as its obvious that you did) - did you look at pornography? And if the answer to that is no - then what did you think about when you masturbated? Did you just think about an attractive woman or did you have to convince yourself to fall in love with her before you masturbated? Did you think one day of a family and growing old together with the same exact soulmate every time you masturbated? If you were a sexually and psychologically healthy male you had a sexual fantasy...and if you didnt masturbate or didnt fantasize and quickly masturbated like it was some sort of dirty need that had to be taken care of as quickly as possible - well then what kind of woman would really want to be with a man so devoid of the sexuality that is such a natural and enjoyable part of the human experience? Ahh you say - but thats different - its a fantasy, I didnt actually "disrespect" myself by letting a woman touch me unless we went on x amount of dates first (or some other arbitrary condition that has nothing to do with our inherent sexuality yet in your mind makes the sexuality go from "immoral to "moral"). Well - you had to imagine it in your head taking place to experience the sexual feelings. If acting something out is immoral - why would it be perfectly natural and acceptable to fantasize that that same exact action is actually taking place? And the truth lies in the fact that while you were having sexual fantasies and masturbating - you are upset about the fact that your girlfriend didnt have to fantasize - and actually was living what you could only dream of. But the fact that you were the "nice" guy who didnt have alot of success with women - led you to rationalize that you were the one being "moral" by waiting for "love." When you realize your girlfriend didnt have the same insecurities and issues and so her past dosent match yours - you can then judge her by saying shes immoral - when in reality you are simply threatened because her past vs yours indicates that she has more sexual power than you do. Thats what leads the posters here to the completely illogical and irrational conclusion - "if you had alot of sex partners when you were single, then its a reflection of your sexual immorality and that means your going to cheat on someone when you are in a relationship." What they should really be saying is, "since she has more sexual power than I do, Im insecure and she may cheat on me because im not good enough" - As if I actually have to argue why the original argument is illogical - I have plenty of empirical evidence. I have alot of sex when I am single, and when I am in a relationship I dont cheat. Because I have experienced much, my girlfriend can reassure herself that I am picking her because I truly do want her and value her over anyone else I could choose. My "nice" guy friends who dont date around usually end up getting a gf when a girl chooses them. And these are the ones who I would suspect of cheating if they had the opportunity - because like many of you who claim to have "respected yourselves" by not having sex - they are not in control of their sexual lives like the way I or their girlfriends who they are jealous of and disrespect are. So next time you come on here and want to make a post about your "Retroactive Jealousy" - please change the words and let us know that your problem is that you divide the world's females into Madonnas and Whores and your brain gets scrambled when you realize that they dont fit into those molds and are people like you and me ADDED: Originally Posted by onlyicansee Very interesting, and very well written. I agree, with a lot of what you have said, and really take insight as to the root of this problem. But, what about the guys who have had a more diverse sexual past than their girls, but have this same issue? Im sure there are other reasons... But really great post, and I will definitely start looking into this issue. onlyicansee - thank you for your feedback. The men who have MORE sexual experience than their girlfriends, and still suffer from the Maddonna/Whore Complex do so for in fact the same underlying reasons as the guys who have LESS sexual experience than their girlfriends - they simply justify it differently. The guys with less sexual experience of course use the idea of "morality" to convince themselves that since they were "sexually moral" by not sleeping with people and therefore dont want a girl who is/was "immoral." The guys with just as much if not more sexual experience can not use that argument to explain their discomfort so some will simply say "I'll sleep with a slut but I cant imagine one being the mother of my children (and by definition they feel like the term slut wouldnt apply to them for the exact same behavior simply because they are men). The more inquisitive and thoughtful among them will honestly acknowledge - "I know it makes no logical sense, but I still feel the same way." Less sexual experience or more, morality/values argument or not - the underlying issue is the same. When these guys think of a girlfriend, future wife and mother of their children, they go towards images of their own mother - not the images that actually resulted in their creation - like their parents having hot sex - but rather images of their mother taking care of them and loving them unconditionally and maternally. You have no competition for your mothers love - she is totally devoted to you, would never leave you for another, never cheat on you - and will be there for you no matter what - and this is what they unrealistically look for in a girlfriend. Since sex is the bond of the relationships - acknowledging that your girlfriend is also sexual independent of her relationship with you makes this sexuality a threat to you. Thats why its important for these guys to figure out whether their girlfriend is a whore - the kind they either have one night stands with (or masturbate to in their fantasy if they are too "moral" for One Night Stands) - or a maddonna, who is loving and caring just like their mommy was to them. They dont come to the basic acknowledging that these categories are only in your own mind and like you, women are made up of a wide range of feelings and desires and that she is just like you and can be attracted to multiple people, whether you have had the ability to act on that attraction (the guys with sexual experience) or not (the "shy-moral" guys). If she had sex without love, than she is independently sexual and this threatens your image of her as unconditionally loving you - and you have to acknowledge the reality that no woman unconditionally loves you except your mother. This is what leads both men with more sexual experience and less to all experience the same uncomfortable feeling and obsession with the issue. Edited January 18, 2011 by lamaman3
Recommended Posts