tojaz Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 What's the most contagious disease? Its the same thing that brings so many marriages to an end here. Misplaced anger, and its sweeping through the board here spreading like wildfire. Since i first started posting here, I have seen this community shift from a place of caring and support to one of hostility. Seen very good posters who I had thought would always be here shift out and I myself have deleted many posts as I had realized that given the new audience, they would most likely fall on deaf ears. Worst of all, I have seen posters in genuine pain and need of help, the very thing I had thought this forum was created for, driven away by the words of the angry and bitter., and in some cases, have seen the stories of marriages that honestly seemed like they could be saved, laid to waste as they are infected with that disease. Now, there's been a few threads started here addressing this in a couple different ways, but I want to get to the heart of the matter here and just really put it out there. So what is anger as we are seeing it here? More often then not, its fear in many different forms, from those that proclaim that "this will never happen to me again" to those who are just hell bent on not letting anyone see how it effects them, and of course the handful that are more then willing to just flat out condemn an entire sex. At the root though, its fear. Fear of trusting, fear of loving, fear of exposing our selves, warts and all to anyone. Fear of opening ourselves up and possibly not liking what we see. Now anger has its place obviously, and if your ex wife is a cheating this or your ex husband is a lying that, I nor anyone else here is in any position to try and tell you otherwise, but because that was how yours played out, does that make it true for everyone? There's a lot of people here that believe thats true... There's a saying I use a lot here and those who have been here awhile have heard it plenty (among others I'm sure) " every thing's clearer from the outside looking in." Thats a big part of what this forum is about, learning and sharing from each others experiences, a chance to get perspective from being an observer and seeing the dynamics at play without being blinded by emotion or hurt. Thats why I tell people I'm pretty good with everyones problems but my own, but that view and the benefit of it gets pretty narrow when a few "well meaning" but bitter and angry people try to jam their opinions down everyones throat, So, as a humble nobody, I would challenge the posters here to slow down and think for a second. Is what your writing hurting or helping? If your angry, is the person your typing for, really the one your angry at? Angry posts, lashing out, and flat out attacks do damage, and the people that pass through here have plenty of that, in most cases they are hurt, are vulnerable and need support and AN OPEN MIND to hear their story. Readers, be wary! The perceived strength in these self serving rants is not strength at all, but fear and bitterness, and a cowardly attempt to make themselves feel better by spreading the anger around. Real strength comes from being honest, feeling what you feel, and going through the process of healing, not spreading the hurt. We all came here for the same reason, because we hurt, its each individuals decision whether they want to move past the hurt, learn to trust and open their heart again or to hang on to that anger, and hate, and stay in that dark hole looking for others to drag in with them. Choose Wisely! TOJAZ
trippi1432 Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Thank you!! I can always count on you to get out there what I am screaming inside. Very eloquently said Tojaz!! :love:
sirweasles Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 I done tried and couldnt get that out for the life of me but you hit it right on the nail one hundred percent. I have actually spent time probably in the wrong on how i went about it being frusterated and not being very good with words ive tried to get that across thank you tojaz. my heart screams with joy to read your post and trippi you have put alot into context of what i have felt about whats been happening latly too thank you both you are both awsome and i always look forward to hereing from you
PWSX3 Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Well said Tojaz, Sure it all hurts at the beginning & we want to lash out at the other person, but like Tojaz said; we are afraid because we have never been at this place before in our lives. I feel what makes the difference is not to focus on what the other person is doing or did, but figure out why or what we fear, what part we had in the relationship. It doesn't matter if the other person was the a$$ and left, we ALL have a part in the relationship so figure out what you could have done different. Thanks Tojaz
You Go Girl Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Tojaz, YOU'RE DA BOMB! I've avoided posting the last few months, have come back now and then, but frankly it feels futile for all the very reasons you stated. Egotistical pride has ruled a lot here, coupled with that fear you speak of, and forgivance has been given the short end of the stick consistantly. Mob mentality even, particularly on wayward wives. We need compassion here, not condemnation. It's never a one-sided story in reality, although that's what we mostly see here. Real people are making real life decisions that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives, and I'd like to aid in their ability to live with those decisions, not fuel the fire. Shooting from the hip and firing off judgments on a person we've never even met, particularly the one that isn't posting and can't defend themselves, (and I'm guilty of it too) seems to do little for all the broken hearts. Each person that comes here has their own tragedy, and we need to all realize for all the information we're given on any marriage from one party, there's another party and dynamics at play that we can't look deeper to see, but they do exist. Short-sightedness reigns too often. It could simply be the medium. This is a place to discuss issues, this is not the place to find opinions and make severe life altering decisions based on strangers advice, and I think all need to be warned of that. We need our sense of LS community back.
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 I sincerely hope this isn't the case. I just joined today, and have found supportive and friendly people here.
Art_Critic Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 I sincerely hope this isn't the case. I just joined today, and have found supportive and friendly people here. It isn't LITM.. sometimes there are people posting that are posting from the pain they feel and sometimes that comes out in anger. Don't let one posters viewpoint of LS change the help you get from this place... If you have trouble with a poster either ignore them using the ignore function or report them if they are giving you trouble... Welcome LITM...
LeaningIntoTheMuse Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 It isn't LITM.. sometimes there are people posting that are posting from the pain they feel and sometimes that comes out in anger. Don't let one posters viewpoint of LS change the help you get from this place... If you have trouble with a poster either ignore them using the ignore function or report them if they are giving you trouble... Welcome LITM... Thanks for the welcome! And I can understand the pain. Things do get misunderstood over the internet frequently. I've sometimes had to apologize for something I said, when I never meant it that way. But I sincerely hope the OP makes peace with whatever is bothering her.
denise_xo Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Tojaz, YOU'RE DA BOMB! I've avoided posting the last few months, have come back now and then, but frankly it feels futile for all the very reasons you stated. Egotistical pride has ruled a lot here, coupled with that fear you speak of, and forgivance has been given the short end of the stick consistantly. Mob mentality even, particularly on wayward wives. We need compassion here, not condemnation. It's never a one-sided story in reality, although that's what we mostly see here. Real people are making real life decisions that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives, and I'd like to aid in their ability to live with those decisions, not fuel the fire. Shooting from the hip and firing off judgments on a person we've never even met, particularly the one that isn't posting and can't defend themselves, (and I'm guilty of it too) seems to do little for all the broken hearts. Each person that comes here has their own tragedy, and we need to all realize for all the information we're given on any marriage from one party, there's another party and dynamics at play that we can't look deeper to see, but they do exist. Short-sightedness reigns too often. It could simply be the medium. This is a place to discuss issues, this is not the place to find opinions and make severe life altering decisions based on strangers advice, and I think all need to be warned of that. We need our sense of LS community back. I agree with this. While many people do find help on this forum, personally I'd never post any problems that really mattered to me if I was in a fragile state or a vulnerable situation. Too many people here who are out to lift themselves up at the expense of others.
trippi1432 Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 It is so important to remember that no one here is equipped to be a counselor or solve the problems of others, people can only help and maybe point out things from another perspective...it is for advice and that is so helpful to so many when they are in the midst of their own issues. What can we learn, what can we work on, what can we do to make it better the next time...there are so many here that can offer their insight from their own experience. To say that all men are like "this" and all women are like "that", it's such a narrow point of view and will make for a lonely future. There is healing in forgiveness and it can be humbling at times, but it makes you a better person for it in the end. I do hope we get our supportive community back...I, for one, miss it. And yes ArtCritic...haven't had to use the ignore button in a while, but it is an option. Thank you for that reminder.
Steadfast Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I see the growing habit of posters responding to other posters, often taking the thread and the OP's original question right off the track. In that light, maybe it is a good idea to have thread like this to address the problem. On the other hand, how useful would this or any discussion board be if all the responses followed the same, politically correct pattern? Isn't what happens here a reflection of real life? Certainly, when my marriage ended the advice I received varied as far as north does from south. Thankfully, I was able to sort through that wide range of opinion to find my own path. In the end, I think that's what some here fear. Someone embracing poor advice and making a bad situation worse. Honestly and respectfully, as someone who takes the time to think about my response before typing it, I don't need Tojaz or anyone else to tell me what to write or how to think. The reality of the situation is people will do what they want, when they want, and no matter of intellectual depth or prose is going to change that. We can however, hope for a seed to be planted. This is truly good motivation. No matter what, applying understanding, patience, kindness and ultimately forgiveness will allow the brokenhearted a better chance at happiness than the alternative. We are just words here, not actions.
denise_xo Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 On the other hand, how useful would this or any discussion board be if all the responses followed the same, politically correct pattern? It has nothing to do with political correctness, IMO. The key question for me is how we think personal change come about, and how we, in the context of an internet forum, can try to support that process. I don't think constructive change is generated by e.g. name calling or personal bashing. I'm not against 'tough love'. I think many good posters here, such as Owl, 'tell it like it is', which is very important. When I see some other posts on here, however, it is very difficult for me to see any intention on the part of the poster to support the OP in the right direction. When that is absent, it frequently appears to me that the motive for posting is letting out anger and frustration at a convenient target. I'm not inside the heads of these posters so I don't know what their rationale actually is, but that's what it translates as for me. We can hope for a seed to be planted, as you say - but some posters don't appear to want to plant any seeds at all. This is not about telling you or anyone else 'what to write or what to think'. Such accusations conveniently avoid the discussion of 'what is the best way to support those coming to LS in situations of great distress/ people who have put themselves in very difficult situations'. That, to me, is the point of departure for the issues that Tojaz raised in the OP, and I think it's a question we should all have in the forefront of our minds when posting, even though we all may have different answers to that question.
trippi1432 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I don't feel that anyone here is trying to tell someone what to post or how to form their opinion; however, it is pointing out that the accusations are what seems to take a thread off course...as you state Steadfast. It's more the bashing and all out name-calling (and yes, I was guilty of that very thing recently, and no I'm not proud of it). But at least it has led to discussions to try and get this forum back on track. Posters come here because they need insight to their issues, to try and work on their marriages or try to understand what went wrong..sometimes even having to face up to their own demons in the mix. Some do not have the support network they need outside of this community, some have already heard the bad advice in the real world such as "leave, move on" from people that they really know, but are looking for that unaffiliated opinion that offers a different perspective or approach to their specific issue. The bad influence is already out there in the form of "well-meaning" friends and biased opinions from family members in some cases or the frustration that no one wants to hear about our problems anymore. As Tojaz stated, it's easier to see it from the outside looking in. Seeing some of ourselves and our situations in these threads is a learning experience as well, a way for us to look at our own situations differently and grow and learn from that based on opening our minds and throwing a little bit more compassion on the response, asking questions and then even questioning our own hard-lined opinions to a topic. I know that I have learned a lot coming to this forum and have gotten to acceptance of my situation based on advice that I have gotten here. I hope that others can get that same help here.
sirweasles Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Some of the best advice ive read on here has been advice that was hard to except. becouse it was pointing out flaws in the posters or percieved flaws everybody has flaws and everybody needs to learn to work through there problems. I have seen a few threads go from asking advice to a striaght bashing at which point the original thread ment nothing anymore I have not been helpful in this. I believe that we are all grown ups here and we all know what hurtfull attacking comments are. I just dont understand why some choose to use them. do we honestly feel that we are helping our selves let alone anybody else when we start accusing. people do messed up things and find the need for advice on how to get out of the situation in some cases they expect to get hammered on but in other cases they dont they are already tender and raw and getting hammered on in here doesnt help in fact it worsens there situation. we need to set anger aside when responding to posts becouse anger will only lead to bad decisions.
iheartboobs Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I'm not sure, but I may be one of the bashers you're refering to. To be fair, though, some people don't need to be cuddled and told they're right and it's okay to cry. Some people need to be told the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts. If a man posts on here that he's clingy and depressed and his wife doesn't respect him anymore, I'm not going to tell him that she should love him no matter what, I'm going to tell him to get his balls out of his purse and man the **** up. If anyone posts that they're having an affair, I tell them that they're unworthy of being in a committed relationship or even of being loved in general because, to me, there's no excuse for cheating. I don't tell them that it's their SO's fault for not being attentive or whatever, because if it's bad enough to warrant an affair, you should just get a divorce. Also, most of the time when I post, I do advocate at least a separation and sometimes a divorce. It's not because I'm bitter or hate marriage. In fact, I'm a big fan of both women and commitment. It's because, in most of these cases, trust was (IMO) irrepairably broken, and there can't be love where there's no trust. So, in my case at least, I hope you can look past the abrasive nature of the post to see that there's actually good intentions and an endeavor to help hidden away in there.
What_Next Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 First, tojaz, great thread. I have said in my thread and others that I respect your opinion and your even tempered nature. Your posts often come from a deep introspective side of your personality. Maybe you've always been like that, maybe it has taken time given what you have been through. Well you must realize that for some of us the emotions are more raw, and more on the surface. That might lead us to perhaps strike a little to close to open wounds. I know I have been guiltly of that and that is slowly changing within me. See the thing the is most if not all of the threads on LS and in particular this area are emotionally charged to begin with. Personally if I see the tell tale signs of what I went through I'll do whatever I feel is necessary to use what I have learned to help the person through it. Now, the issue of going off topic, well that occurs on almost all forums of any sort. The moderators here largely let threads continue and only generally get involved for outright rule breaking. Perhaps the key is moderation from the users themselves. If a thread goes off the rails then the posters themselves can bring it back on track. Just my perspective. I for one am eternally grateful to have found this place.
sirweasles Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) iheartboobs You can be pretty harsh but i cant remember seeing you out right bash someone there is nothing wrong with constructive critisisom Edited January 17, 2011 by sirweasles
Author tojaz Posted January 19, 2011 Author Posted January 19, 2011 Tojaz, YOU'RE DA BOMB! I've avoided posting the last few months, have come back now and then, but frankly it feels futile for all the very reasons you stated. Egotistical pride has ruled a lot here, coupled with that fear you speak of, and forgivance has been given the short end of the stick consistantly. Mob mentality even, particularly on wayward wives. We need compassion here, not condemnation. It's never a one-sided story in reality, although that's what we mostly see here. Real people are making real life decisions that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives, and I'd like to aid in their ability to live with those decisions, not fuel the fire. Shooting from the hip and firing off judgments on a person we've never even met, particularly the one that isn't posting and can't defend themselves, (and I'm guilty of it too) seems to do little for all the broken hearts. Each person that comes here has their own tragedy, and we need to all realize for all the information we're given on any marriage from one party, there's another party and dynamics at play that we can't look deeper to see, but they do exist. Short-sightedness reigns too often. It could simply be the medium. This is a place to discuss issues, this is not the place to find opinions and make severe life altering decisions based on strangers advice, and I think all need to be warned of that. We need our sense of LS community back. Beautifully put YGG! Wish I could have found the words like you did, especially the last line. TOJAZ
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