Woggle Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 This sounds almost word for word what nice guys say about their experiences.
carhill Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Most of the unrequited love guy stories on LS read exactly as mine did from many years ago, mainly the result of pursuing only one woman at a time and putting her on a pedestal. Smart men pursue many women and never put them on a pedestal. As women don't generally pursue but rather are pursued, it's easy for them to exercise multiple simultaneous options and never face (if nothing else because they're too busy with all the attention they're getting) a singular unavailable but desired option. The key is in diversity. So, now, even when I find someone who interests me, she does not get my undivided 'romantic' attention, rather any woman whom I find attractive (in woefully short supply these days) gets some similar attention. Her actions must set her apart from the rest. She, OTOH, doesn't have to actively think about this at all, as she's getting her e-mail box filled, her VM bloated and is being propositioned on the street. I can pick (and have, as recently as er, three weeks ago) *any* female friend and spend a day or two with her and see exactly that, presuming she's not married or living with a guy. It is what it is. How romantic Once I stopped focusing on one woman at a time and ended pedestal-building and became less 'romantic', it didn't really make any difference in the response rate or perceptions of women. What it did do was hurt a lot less, so I didn't mind the rejections as much. It's like the difference between getting #8 birdshot versus a .44 magnum hollow point at 30 meters. Injury will result but many small holes at lower velocity is preferable to one large hole through the heart. As with most other aspects of relationships, learning to care less brought more balance. The days of growing wildflower fields and a rose garden to make bouquets are *over*
january2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 As with most other aspects of relationships, learning to care less brought more balance. The days of growing wildflower fields and a rose garden to make bouquets are *over* With regard to caring less, the wildflower fields and the rose garden, that's very sad to hear.
carhill Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Yes, and I need only take the tractor out into the orchard to remember how things once were. Time, age and experience (and living in one place for many years) give one perspective. My 'field of dreams' is now overgrown with weeds. Wow, that sounds depressing
carhill Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 How about a handmade (hand-drawn and inscribed) card for Valentine's day, with a rose from the garden on a tray with fresh breakfast in bed? I was more a 'special occasion' romantic, though I did like to make my exW breakfast every morning. Clearly, as I write this, I now know I wasted such feelings and efforts on women (not just my exW) who didn't appreciate them, value them or care about them. It's so clear now. Thank the deity of my choice for that clarity.
northern_sky Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 How about a handmade (hand-drawn and inscribed) card for Valentine's day, with a rose from the garden on a tray with fresh breakfast in bed? I was more a 'special occasion' romantic, though I did like to make my exW breakfast every morning. Clearly, as I write this, I now know I wasted such feelings and efforts on women (not just my exW) who didn't appreciate them, value them or care about them. It's so clear now. Thank the deity of my choice for that clarity. How 'bout a 10+ page hand-sewn book of intricate, captioned drawings I gave to an ex boyfriend that illustrated some of our finest and funniest moments together? Later that day he called me a nasty name, and left me alone in the car crying.
northern_sky Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Despite my romantic gestures being poorly received in the past, I won't stop them in the future. The guy for me will appreciate them. I like doing them. And I'm not the type who makes these gesture when I barely know somebody or I'm trying to woo somebody. When I make them, enough feeling has developed that they mean something.
northern_sky Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 interestingly when i had a profile up on okcupid, their algorithms decided that one of my personality traits is "unromantic." i think that must be a recent development.
carhill Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Despite my romantic gestures being poorly received in the past, I won't stop them in the future. The guy for me will appreciate them. I like doing them. At your age (27), I would have said and did say exactly the same thing. After another 25 years, you might find you have a different perspective. Who knows. I just hope you pick better than I did. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. The change in perspective occurred as a part of the clarity process worked on in MC, so only in the past couple years. Perhaps someday another lady will inspire those feelings again; perhaps not. I'm fine with it either way.
jane100 Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 I am not sure of the answer to this - but I would agree with some other women here that unfortunately as a woman I do hold back on "romantic" gestures, in case they may be misinterpreted as clinging, obsession etc. I would say when I am first interested in someone I sometimes think of buying small gifts etc but don't! I think that TRUE ROMANTICISM (as opposed to sentimentality) is a very powerful thing - it is about creativity, love, giving, adventurousness, excitement and confidence, and making your own rules and your own life. Its a heady thing when employed in male-female relationships, and I am sad to say I have missed out on a lot of that both in giving and receiving. Its a long time since Carole Lombard released white doves into a room to show her love for Clark Gable, such gestures by women are rare and not altogether welcomed which is a bit sad.
Knittress Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 As with most other aspects of relationships, learning to care less brought more balance. The days of growing wildflower fields and a rose garden to make bouquets are *over* You're certainly entitled to your jadedness, but it kills a little spark of hope in me when you talk about turning your back on your sensitive nature. Being single can be bleak enough without worrying that any man I'm compatible with is going to turn into a cold battle-hardened wreck before I find him. Not that I'm saying you're a wreck, or cold, or... nevermind.
jane100 Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 musemaj, if thats true, its very sweet. are you a man/woman? is this your personal experience.
northern_sky Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 At your age (27), I would have said and did say exactly the same thing. After another 25 years, you might find you have a different perspective. Who knows. I just hope you pick better than I did. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. The change in perspective occurred as a part of the clarity process worked on in MC, so only in the past couple years. Perhaps someday another lady will inspire those feelings again; perhaps not. I'm fine with it either way. I think the *right* woman would be very receptive of your gestures. It sounds like you've just gotten yourself involved in unrequited situations with emotionally withdrawing types. Also, many women will be put off by extreme romantic gestures if it's too early in the courtship. After all a guy coming on too strong at first is a bit of a red flag that his feelings may be fleeting or shallow, since it's not based on established intimacy. After all if he can do it so fast for us, how do we know we're not one of many women he's romancing? Not saying this is true for you, just explaining why we're on guard when it comes to that stuff. Makes sense right?
Woggle Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 You're certainly entitled to your jadedness, but it kills a little spark of hope in me when you talk about turning your back on your sensitive nature. Being single can be bleak enough without worrying that any man I'm compatible with is going to turn into a cold battle-hardened wreck before I find him. Not that I'm saying you're a wreck, or cold, or... nevermind. It's sad but you should at least somewhat blame the women who take this sensitivity and use it against men. Very men fully trust a woman again after being betrayed. Even if they trust her 99% there is always that 1% in the back of their mind that knows she can turn on him at any minute.
northern_sky Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 It's sad but you should at least somewhat blame the women who take this sensitivity and use it against men. Very men fully trust a woman again after being betrayed. Even if they trust her 99% there is always that 1% in the back of their mind that knows she can turn on him at any minute. this isn't gender specific. Most women have also been betrayed by boyfriends at one time or another. Try to see it from the other's perspective and stop thinking in terms of gender. It trivializes people.
Woggle Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 this isn't gender specific. Most women have also been betrayed by boyfriends at one time or another. Try to see it from the other's perspective and stop thinking in terms of gender. It trivializes people. I am a man so I can't speak on what women go through. I can only speak from my perspective which is that of a man.
northern_sky Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 I am a man so I can't speak on what women go through. I can only speak from my perspective which is that of a man. you may be not able to "speak" for what women go through, but I think it would be useful for you to try to empathize with them more. In other words, put yourself in their shoes. It will broaden your perspective.
Woggle Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 you may be not able to "speak" for what women go through, but I think it would be useful for you to try to empathize with them more. In other words, put yourself in their shoes. It will broaden your perspective. It works the other way around as well. I wish more women would put themselves in men's shoes.
northern_sky Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 It works the other way around as well. I wish more women would put themselves in men's shoes. I do all the time, but I also don't tend to think in terms of gender when I do so. I put myself in the shoes of other *people*, not different genders. I think that's the right approach to take since people within a gender vary more than average differences between genders. I've seen you make a lot of progress in the last few years, but I get the sense you're still too gender obsessed.
Woggle Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 I do all the time, but I also don't tend to think in terms of gender when I do so. I put myself in the shoes of other *people*, not different genders. I think that's the right approach to take since people within a gender vary more than average differences between genders. I've seen you make a lot of progress in the last few years, but I get the sense you're still too gender obsessed. I am not gender obsessed but the fact of the matter is that gender still matters a great deal in our society. Men and women have vastly different experiences in the modern day relationship world and the key to healing the nasty divisons is trying to understand what the other side goes through. It doesn't mean that all men or all women are bad but there are certain things you just can't relate if you are the opposite sex and that goes both ways.
northern_sky Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 I am not gender obsessed but the fact of the matter is that gender still matters a great deal in our society. Men and women have vastly different experiences in the modern day relationship world and the key to healing the nasty divisons is trying to understand what the other side goes through. It doesn't mean that all men or all women are bad but there are certain things you just can't relate if you are the opposite sex and that goes both ways. sure it matters, but there's more to life than obsessing over that. do you really want to devote so much energy to arguing about and mulling over things you will never be able to change? i just can't imagine it makes you very happy.
MJ2 Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Men and woman don't see romance the same way. I would feel silly sending flowers to my man & he would probably feel awkward if i ever were to! Men need romancing too, but not necessarily with chocolates or flowers. I try to do little things to surprise him, though. If I know he's had a crappy day, Its fun surprising him with his favorite meal and dessert when he gets to my place. Every now and then, I'll clean his house, buy his favorite bag of candy when I'm @ CVS or Walgreens, & if I notice he's running low on something, I buy it for him. It's not much, but he appreciates it!! Edited January 15, 2011 by MJ2
hydorclops Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Northern sky wrote: I do all the time, but I also don't tend to think in terms of gender when I do so. I put myself in the shoes of other *people*, not different genders. I think that's the right approach to take since people within a gender vary more than average differences between genders. I've seen you make a lot of progress in the last few years, but I get the sense you're still too gender obsessed. I think this is exactly right. It's a terrific idea to keep in mind when thinking about the battle of the sexes. Woggle, the idea in the about quote is exactly what I've considered writing to you. Instead of thinking about men suffering at the hands of women the way you have, think about people suffering the way you have. And don't forget about good people.
Kamille Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 What I found interesting about the linked article is that it wasn't actually about gestures (who does what) but about beliefs. Men expressed a stronger belief in "the one", "soul mates", "love at first sight" than women did. A part of me thinks it makes perfect sense. All stats show that men benefit greatly from marriage: their life expectancy increases as does their reported levels of happiness. (Women's remain unchanged in both cases). Married men also fare better on the job market and are more likely to get promotions than their single counterparts (married women's career opportunities, on the other hand, take a hit, both in opportunities and promotions). The article reports that men even derive a sense of physical well-being out of long term partnerships. In other words: Men believe in romance because successful long-term romance actually has a tremendous pay-off for most men. Their belief in romance might also explain why they report being blindsided if their relationships fails. They draw such benefits from long term relationships that they might experience an increased sense of betrayal and-or failure then women. It all makes perfect sense to me.
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