Objectivity

[pureinheart]

First off, want to thank OP'ers of the threads for allowing me to release, it really helped and I do feel better:).

 

I have really tried to remain composed and not go off, not be angry, although there is anger right now. It's not that it didn't work out, and will explain that, it's about the abuse, that is where the anger is coming from.

 

It was never meant to work out, and being objective in my own situation knew that all along, but wanted at times to believe different. I could never actually see myself living with him...a hoarder and a clean freak really don't mix. Long story short, we were worlds apart, yes there were many good times, but those are over, we are over.

 

To those currently in R's or contemplating going back, getting into one...my advice would be to be objective, to look at all angles.

 

I think all we can do is go by our own experiences and advise based on that, although untimately it is up to the individual to make final decisions and I feel I should respect that. Throughout my years, have been told how I should respond and how I should be, and they weren't suggestions, some were demands. I'll be me.

 

I apologize for going back and forth at times, from longing, to anger, to resentment etc...it has been a rollercoaster for me. Also just want to add that my replies aren't all emotion based, they are based on what I read in the OP and what I sense.

 

The main purpose for this thread was to thank those that have been supportive and allowed me to be real in their threads...that means a lot BTW:)

 

What do you think being objective is?

Edited January 14, 2011 by pureinheart

[East7]

The main purpose for this thread was to thank those that have been supportive and allowed me to be real in their threads...that means a lot BTW:)

 

What do you think being objective is?

 

Hi PiH,

 

Would it have worked in a LTR open relationship ? Well, the specificity of an A is that you could never know. You may try to rationalize and see the incompatibility of personalities, but at the end you have no real-life proof that it wouldn't work. The A are always ended with what-ifs.

 

Married people are NOT 100% compatible either, but what is wonderful and natural in a LTR is that people learn to adapt their personalities to each other needs (when they want to make it work). I have seen a lot of people change through years of relationship and take (learn) from each other. But don't take me wrong, when I say "they change" it only means they mutually adapt themselves to their partner, the core personality never really changes.

 

In my case everytime we fought was not really about our personalities but about the frustration of being in an A rather than in a normal R. She was unhappy not to be with me when she wanted to and me the same, the conflict between guilt and desire was the very source of drama and blows. Had we met under other circumstances it would have been very different.

[TigerCub]

Hey PIH,

 

I totally get what you're saying about the back and forth between longing for the person and being angry and frustrated by them.

 

When I was in the middle of the A - I thought that under 'normal' circumstances we would have been really good together in a LTR. We did have a lot in common and our differences complimented each other.

 

But the longer I stayed in the A the more I saw that some of our differences would be a liability as well.

He's cowardly and extremely passive aggressive, whereas I speak what's on my mind and call people out on stuff where I feel the need to. He's a conflict avoider whereas, I don't mind disagreements as long as they're to get to the bottom of a serious issue.

 

The thing about objectivity that's a real bitch, is that its hard to be objective when you (general you) want so badly to see a certain outcome, and want so badly to see things that you just need to see in someone.

 

Being objective to me, is about being honest and taking stock of the full picture, but that's hard to get to with all the Fog in the way.

 

By the end of the A, I was able to look more objectively and see more clearly and see that xMM is actually a compulsive liar, and that made the Fog lessen, and then I was able to be objective about what kind of life we would have if he ever left. He has too much baggage. He has kids with his long time gf, (that's baggage to me because that means she's always going to be part of my life if he ever left her and came to me), he's passive aggressive and would rather cheat than address real issues, he's just someone that I can't really trust.

 

Those are all the things I was able to see when being objective, but as I said above, its hard to be objective when you're in the midst of all the drama and still on the rollercoaster.

[OpenBook]

Objectivity requires looking at the facts without emotion. Time and distance tends to, for most, lessen the emotions and allow more objectivity.

 

I'll take that one step further and add, making decisions & choices going forward based on that "looking at the facts without emotion." Tough to do! But necessary for survival and "thrival" (haha).

 

One key step for me is a simple gut check. If my gut is telling me something different from how I'm currently feeling in my own little la-la land, I have to force myself to sit up and pay attention.

[Confused4Now]

Being objective to me, is about being honest and taking stock of the full picture, but that's hard to get to with all the Fog in the way.

 

By the end of the A, I was able to look more objectively and see more clearly and see that xMM is actually a compulsive liar, and that made the Fog lessen, and then I was able to be objective about what kind of life we would have if he ever left. He has too much baggage. He has kids with his long time gf, (that's baggage to me because that means she's always going to be part of my life if he ever left her and came to me), he's passive aggressive and would rather cheat than address real issues, he's just someone that I can't really trust.

This is my take as well....when you are heavy in the fog you can't look at things objectively...there is just to much emotion getting in the way. As was said...when the A is winding down you can start looking at things more objectively.

 

Last thing...I've always said that A really promote passive aggressive behavior too....

[Bittersweetie]

I agree with the above. It was so hard to be objective when I was in the midst of dealing with the OM. Now that a lot of time has past, I see things with more clarity, and wonder, why did I let myself get treated that way?

 

Last thing...I've always said that A really promote passive aggressive behavior too....

 

I so agree with this. I may have done it a little, but the OM was an expert at p/a stuff. His words would be, "I really want to see you, can we get together Friday?" Then his actions would be, not responding to me in any way regarding plans for said Friday. Then afterward it'd be, "so sorry!"

 

At the time I wasn't objective enough to see it was him with the issues. (Not that I didn't have a bumload of my own, though.) But now I can look back and learn from my experience and decide how I will live moving forward, and how I will interact with others. And I know I wouldn't put up with that kind of treatment anymore.

[pureinheart]

Hi PiH,

 

Would it have worked in a LTR open relationship ? Well, the specificity of an A is that you could never know. You may try to rationalize and see the incompatibility of personalities, but at the end you have no real-life proof that it wouldn't work. The A are always ended with what-ifs.

 

Married people are NOT 100% compatible either, but what is wonderful and natural in a LTR is that people learn to adapt their personalities to each other needs (when they want to make it work). I have seen a lot of people change through years of relationship and take (learn) from each other. But don't take me wrong, when I say "they change" it only means they mutually adapt themselves to their partner, the core personality never really changes.

 

In my case everytime we fought was not really about our personalities but about the frustration of being in an A rather than in a normal R. She was unhappy not to be with me when she wanted to and me the same, the conflict between guilt and desire was the very source of drama and blows. Had we met under other circumstances it would have been very different.

 

 

Hi East...wow, you hit it. I understand completely what your saying...it's having the ability to bend and the willingness to do so.

 

When it came to emotions and acting on them, he was passive/ aggressive. I learned how to navagate in that, meaning I conformed to that (much like what you are saying here East), expecting nothing from him. Thus a very twisted dynamic began to surface.

 

Having been used to men being open with their emotions, with never fearing to commit, this was really strange.

 

ExDM had to be in control of almost everything..this is where we butted heads. I love for the guy to take charge, although this was way too much, it went into abusive forms.

 

You used the word "natural"...that was the missing element...I couldn't make it happen.

 

I was dealing with a man that had been hurt so bad, that "he" was no longer recognisable. I was shocked to finally understand that he had never really experinced a right R...he knew all of the right moves, but chose not to use them I guess.

 

Hey PIH,

 

I totally get what you're saying about the back and forth between longing for the person and being angry and frustrated by them.

 

When I was in the middle of the A - I thought that under 'normal' circumstances we would have been really good together in a LTR. We did have a lot in common and our differences complimented each other.

 

But the longer I stayed in the A the more I saw that some of our differences would be a liability as well.

He's cowardly and extremely passive aggressive, whereas I speak what's on my mind and call people out on stuff where I feel the need to. He's a conflict avoider whereas, I don't mind disagreements as long as they're to get to the bottom of a serious issue.

 

The thing about objectivity that's a real bitch, is that its hard to be objective when you (general you) want so badly to see a certain outcome, and want so badly to see things that you just need to see in someone.

 

Being objective to me, is about being honest and taking stock of the full picture, but that's hard to get to with all the Fog in the way.

 

By the end of the A, I was able to look more objectively and see more clearly and see that xMM is actually a compulsive liar, and that made the Fog lessen, and then I was able to be objective about what kind of life we would have if he ever left. He has too much baggage. He has kids with his long time gf, (that's baggage to me because that means she's always going to be part of my life if he ever left her and came to me), he's passive aggressive and would rather cheat than address real issues, he's just someone that I can't really trust.

 

Those are all the things I was able to see when being objective, but as I said above, its hard to be objective when you're in the midst of all the drama and still on the rollercoaster.

 

That's the thing, especially in a R such as possible marriage and such...nothing ever got worked out between me and him. I always felt stuck, going nowhere fast. I never felt like he was listening, nor did he care.

 

When it came down to the real deal, he couldn't handle it...and that's ok because I can move on.

 

How long ago did your affair end?

 

Objectivity requires looking at the facts without emotion. Time and distance tends to, for most, lessen the emotions and allow more objectivity.

 

The A ended around July of 2006, and he and his W separated in April of 2007. We got together after that.

 

In bold...are you telling the truth or what! Now I can be my authentic self...also in extremely destructive R, the emotions seem to be the driver.

[pureinheart]

Thank you sooooo much for each and every reply/insight...this is iron sharpening iron IMO, you guys are awesome...passive/aggressive behavior seems to be the key? It sure sounds like it.

 

I just thank God for this life changing experience. It's been frustrating because I knew this R and some other things have been holding me back in many areas.

 

Thinking also I FINALLY let go of a R that had been lingering for many years also. An old bf. He would contact me periodically professing undying love, although he is a commitment phobic also. I cut that off recently completely. No more, the counterfeits have to vacate:D

Edited January 14, 2011 by pureinheart

[OpenBook]

No more, the counterfeits have to vacate

 

Well done! :bunny:

[pureinheart]

Well done! :bunny:

 

:lmao:, thank you:D:D:D

[GreenEyedLady]

What do you think being objective is?

 

I think being objective is being able to put personal values aside and evaluate a situation on its merits.

 

Being objective is not moralizing or telling someone else how they should live their life because one personally finds it reprehensible.

 

It is also not ignoring the real question the person is asking and turning the thread into a moral argument that supports the values that other people believe are superior and "right."

 

I think that the antonym of objectivity occurs on this forum every day.

 

GEL

[NoIDidn't]

Thank you sooooo much for each and every reply/insight...this is iron sharpening iron IMO, you guys are awesome...passive/aggressive behavior seems to be the key? It sure sounds like it.

 

I just thank God for this life changing experience. It's been frustrating because I knew this R and some other things have been holding me back in many areas.

 

Thinking also I FINALLY let go of a R that had been lingering for many years also. An old bf. He would contact me periodically professing undying love, although he is a commitment phobic also. I cut that off recently completely. No more, the counterfeits have to vacate:D

 

This is great news, Pure.

 

Thanks to this forum and the many insights I've learned here, I've done the same thing: permanently cut off that ex that would contact me periodically phishing for an opening again.

 

It really does feel like a weight off. I bet it does for you as well.

[pureinheart]

I think being objective is being able to put personal values aside and evaluate a situation on its merits.

 

Being objective is not moralizing or telling someone else how they should live their life because one personally finds it reprehensible.

 

It is also not ignoring the real question the person is asking and turning the thread into a moral argument that supports the values that other people believe are superior and "right."

 

I think that the antonym of objectivity occurs on this forum every day.

 

GEL

 

Hi GEL,

 

This really good and well put and mirrors what I think most of the time. This does happen quite often and it is a persona of superior.."I am better than you because ______" is really the interpretaion of some replies.

 

Certainly the "right" thing is always the best, although my right is mostlikely different from anothers.

 

Usually if I am unable to let something go concerning a poster it is due to seeing danger, although I need to let it go and wish the best for the OP.

[pureinheart]

This is great news, Pure.

 

Thanks to this forum and the many insights I've learned here, I've done the same thing: permanently cut off that ex that would contact me periodically phishing for an opening again.

 

It really does feel like a weight off. I bet it does for you as well.

 

Thanks NID, it was strange at first to actually understand and come out of the denial of both of these toxic R's. I was toxic because of them in some ways, they held me back from the real deal.

 

I'm really glad for you as well, it is quite liberating:)...your right, there is a lighter feeling...lol...now that needs to pour out into my actual weight:D, like about 30lbs lighter:D

[starlight102]

I think being objective is being able to put personal values aside and evaluate a situation on its merits.

 

Being objective is not moralizing or telling someone else how they should live their life because one personally finds it reprehensible.

 

It is also not ignoring the real question the person is asking and turning the thread into a moral argument that supports the values that other people believe are superior and "right."

 

I think that the antonym of objectivity occurs on this forum every day.

 

GEL

 

I am of the same opinion. Your reply was well said!!

[pureinheart]

This is great news, Pure.

 

Thanks to this forum and the many insights I've learned here, I've done the same thing: permanently cut off that ex that would contact me periodically phishing for an opening again.

 

It really does feel like a weight off. I bet it does for you as well.

 

NID, in your experience, why do they do this...mine were not phishing to see if I was single (or still single) to make a commitment...why do they do this? What is it they REALLY want? Open question BTW....