Finally have my second chance, don’t want to blow it (very long)

[5brokenpieces]

This is my first time posting in this forum. I have been lurking for several months, trying to find advice and comfort to help me in my situation. My circumstance is not unique from what I have read, but different enough that the collective advice may benefit other members of this forum and may offer insight to others who are in a comparable situation. I apologize for the length.

 

I am a female in my mid thirties. I developed a crush on my ex/current boyfriend at the age of 14. I was 18 and he was 21 when I was finally able (and age appropriate enough) to ask him out. We moved in together when I was 22 and stayed together until I was 30. In our 12 year history, we were adoring, hypersexual and romantic for 9 years slowing cooling down in the last 3 years to what I would term as a ‘deep friendship/comfort that became less sexual though regularly intimate (cuddling, hugging, light pecks, etc.)’ We never fought and were very much alike with remarkably similar interests and world views. Despite the fact that we were not married, had no tangible assets together and no children most people assumed we were married, he often referred to me as his ‘wife’ to people we had just met and most of our friends and family assumed we would be together for the foreseeable future. That we would be together until death was our mutual assumption, though we never openly discussed marriage, a house or children.

 

I got my dream job at the age of 29 and it drove a wedge of time and space between us. I was working 12-16 hour days, 6-7 days a week and always 80 or more hours a week for the last year of our relationship. A couple of times after particularly long absences from home, he would storm into my place of work, ignore my co-workers, take my hand, force me to stop working and come home. He never participated socially with my co-workers as some of my co-workers spouses did, and my fellow managers and mentors often commented that they couldn’t picture us together, that he seemed so different than me. The truth was that I was changing myself and forcing to be a different person for _their_ benefit and for the continued success of my career. Long story short: I got Grass is Greener syndrome. For stupid, selfish, misguided reasons, I felt that my relationship was holding me back from being successful in my career, that I hadn’t fully experienced life and I hadn’t dated enough to be so ‘settled’. This was further reinforced by my new work ‘friends’.

 

When I announced that I was leaving, the words fell out like bowling balls hitting the floor and I regretted saying them almost seconds later. The shock and pain was pretty devastating, I guess. What he would later term as, “having murdered us”. He almost immediately shut down, quietly agreed to my terms and became distant, cold and withdrawn. Within days of our separation I became despondent and inconsolable, frantically begging for forgiveness and a chance to put things back the way they were. I guess I broke the ‘rules’ of the break up and appeared desperate, fickle and an emotional wreck. Throughout the next 3 months my constant pathetic pleas would be met with stony stoicism. I decided that it was more painful to be constantly met with indifference and rejection by the object of my affection than to be without my ex-boyfriend, and went no contact.

 

8 months after the break up, I met a fellow at work who expressed interest in me. He was very different from me, but it felt good to be admired and we ended up dating for two years. He was fun and charming, and made me feel good at a time when I was feeling wounded and empty. In short, this man helped me get over the pain of my loss, made me forget (temporarily) and I ended up marrying him two years ago, even though I did not love him (yes, it’s crazy, but the head and the heart are crazy counsellors). While it pains me to refer to my ex-husband this way, I view our relationship as morphine for someone in incredible pain. Our dating/marriage was loveless (we were together just over four years and have not had sex in more than three years, not even on our wedding night), but we have a good friendship and he is good to me: he is a champion for me, his family is amazing, my friends find him charming and he always treats my family with respect. He has severe problems with money, gambling and alcohol, but I knew this before we got married. I was acting like a drugged-out stoner: numb, half paying attention (mind on someone else) and just going along with whatever he wanted (because I didn’t care). Meanwhile, I brush away the tears and feel heart pangs like knife jabs every time I think of the ex-boyfriend.

 

I quit the dream job a year ago due to complications from stress and ill health as a result. I announced my intention to separate from my husband six months ago. He signed a separation agreement. I will have an uncontested divorce in 6 months at the conclusion of the one year mandatory waiting period. We tried to get an annulment based on lack of consummation, but the annulment statutes are very strict. My husband and I are very civil to one another, we are good friends but he always suspected that I did not love him and, when we met, he had just been dumped from a six year relationship. We used each other. I believe that he would like to try and work things out, but he knows it’s just not possible.

 

For the last three years my ex-boyfriend had casually resurfaced. We had the same old friends, same interests and lived in the same place, so it was bound to happen – the first couple of times at concerts. The occasional party. A once in a blue moon card game within our circle. It never went beyond “hello” or the polite, “how’s your family?” in a broken voice. Anything more and we would have both been fighting back tears. Every time I would see him, it was like tearing open a scab that had barely healed over.

 

Three months ago, after five years of separation, I initiated a meeting with the ex-boyfriend. He agreed to see me. I put all my cards on the table one final time, apologizing and pledging my undying allegiance. In mutual sadness for the past and euphoria about the future, he reciprocated my feelings. He admitted that he has been unsuccessful, like me (although he didn’t go as far as getting married!), in trying to suppress the feelings. We agreed to take it slow and get to know each other again, while agreeing that children, a home and being together as partners for the foreseeable future was what we both wanted. I expressed that I could only re-commit if there was true forgiveness on his part, because I could not again endure the pain of those three months post-breakup. It was preferable to live life without him, than to live a life constantly overshadowed by blame and guilt. He forgave me. Three months into my separation, we began dating again.

 

On to my problems. I am desperate that our second chance works out. When I say I could not endure the pain again, I honestly believe I might die of a broken heart (seriously). My health problems related to my last job have left me underweight (I’m just over 5’11” and currently 127lbs) and weakened – which has put serious strain on my heart.

 

But, there are some red flags (and white flags) that I have seen in the last three months that keep me up at night, both devastated and clinging to hope. Red Flags: guilt, rejection, contempt. White flags: intimacy, sex, bonding better than ever

 

We both felt guilty, because I am ‘technically’ married. I believe that guilt has been reconciled somewhat through talking about the nature of separation and the conditions of my marriage. Legally, in my region, separation is not different from divorce (it is a condition of divorce defined as ‘no longer living as a couple with the intention of ending the marriage’) except for the fact that you cannot remarry. Families and religious institutions may view it differently, but we are not religious and I have no children or real ‘family-life’ (his or mine) with my ex-husband. But it still feels like we are being ‘sneaky’. I honestly do not want to tell my ex-husband that I am seeing my first love again because I don’t want to cause him further hurt or humiliation. I want to make our divorce as painless as possible, but I do not want to spare his feelings at the expense of my happiness. Maybe I’m trying to rationalize that ‘Don’t Tell’ is better for everyone.

 

Resistance, sexually, was futile. The wine was opened and it must be drunk. It has been amazing and mind-blowing and symbiotic as it was in the beginning, if not more intense in making up for lost time and the ‘dirty thirties’ being what they are. Honestly, every time is better than the last. However, I think in my desire to see this work, my sense that our dwindling sex life may have been a factor in our break-up (and possibly from being abstinent for so long), I may be a little ‘over-enthusiastic’. I always seem to be the one initiating and may come off as insatiable, often initiating three or four times in one night. Once, I got ‘I have a headache’. This felt like rejection. Do men actually reject a no-reciprocation necessary offer of a bj? Wouldn’t that help a headache? Also, it was about 2 months in before I was invited into ‘his bed’ (other times have been hotels, the couch, and other). I almost felt like he was withholding the bed, like it was ‘too intimate, too soon’.

 

The best moments have been the return of the intimacy: just being cosy, snugly warm and comfortable curled up on the couch, holding hands, light kisses and talking about stuff we like or watching a movie and eating chocolate, melting into each other. I found ‘my nook’ again. It shames me to think that at one time this meant we had become boring homebodies. Now I know it is the best thing in the world and should never be taken for granted. He told me that this is what he missed most of all (me too, I admit). But, sometimes I feel like I'm boring him, and his exaggerated yawning (it’s only 10pm) is a signal to me to get lost or I can physically feel him start to withdraw. This feels like rejection.

 

In other rejection: in three months we’ve only seen each other 12 times and I feel like I have done the majority of initiating our time together. I also initiate the majority of our phone calls, texts and e-mails (I contact him once every 2-3 days; he contacts me once every 4-8 days). We had other dates lined up, but on two occasions he outright cancelled on me: Once for being in a foul mood (work related and understandable), one time he texted me after we had made plans to hook up to ask if I mind if he watch MMA with his friend instead (he must have realized quickly that he was being a dick, because he texted me a retraction before I could respond) and most recently the day before I left on a weeklong business trip (that I’m currently on) because “I'm tired and have a bit of a headache“.

 

This ‘new’ relationship is beginning to feel unrequited. We agreed to take things slow, but we’ve also got a 17+ year history and it’s not like we need to do the 1st, 2nd, 3rd date dance to figure out what were about. And even if we treat this as a new relationship, on our first date we both agreed that our love is undeniable, we want to be with each other forever, buy a house and have children. I told him “I love you” about a month ago. He said “I love you too, I think”. I left and was inconsolable after hearing “I think” (said in a way meaning he is unsure). This is what bothers me the most: the fact that I have turned into an over-analytical, insecure girl who writes epic posts on love forums (not like me at all) because he is making me feel so doubtful about something I thought was so true.

 

Could it be that he says he forgives me and wants a future, but he’s passive-aggressively acting out his resentments? In addition to the rejection and the guilt, there’s something else I hadn’t noticed before: contempt. That is: eye-rolling, sarcasm, and exaggerated sighing in reaction to things I might say or do. He’s made some off-side remarks about my mom and dad – not fair. I’ve taken some criticism for how skinny I’ve gotten and how it’s aged me. Meanwhile, he’s gained 30 pounds over the last 5 years, but I will always see him as the heartthrob he was at 17 – I wouldn’t dream of being critical. (On the plus side, he knows I have to follow a special diet for my illness and has offered to support me by following it too!). I stayed overnight once. The next day he woke me up by yelling “Are you going to sleep all day?” (It was New Year’s Day and 10:30am) and proceeded to yell at me for forgetting to turn my cell phone alarm off (in my coat pocket in front hall), how it woke him up, how incredibly annoying it was and generally acting like I was the first person in the world to ever do such a thing and how stupid and insensitive could I be.

 

Interspersed with these confusing moments have been many multiples of orgasms, amazing intimacy, fun, meaningful conversations, lots of cooking for each other, catching up on our favourite music and movies, great meals out, great wine, ensuring my comfort, ensuring my safety, concern and support for my health, hugs, joy and secret smiles. Some nights I go home overjoyed and overwhelmed in love. Some nights I go home crying and overwhelmed with pain.

 

I love him. I want him to be happy. I would love to be happy with him in my life. But, the way I want to feel about myself, my life and the way I envision happiness are not compatible with feeling rejected and his disrespectful behaviours. I cannot continue to feel the unbearable pain of feeling as though my love is one-sided. I hope he can come to understand the extent of my kindness, respect, admiration and desire, and be willing reciprocate whole-heartedly. But, right now it seems he wants to be with me, but can’t see past my mistake and is abusing the power shift in our relationship.

 

Does anyone have any advice or comfort they can offer? I’m currently away and return to our city on Saturday. I have contemplated no contact again and just giving up. I have contemplated letting him know all the ways he’s made me feel unloved in the last three months. I have contemplated backing off, not initiating anymore and playing the cards as they come, and never letting another ‘curveball of contempt’ get by me. I have contemplated that I just might be crazy and over reacting. I have thought that maybe he’s just freaked and I am being too aggressive. Or maybe it was always like this, but our time apart has changed my standard for how I allow other people to treat me.

 

Am I doomed? Are his signals and behaviours a warning that he doesn’t love me? Maybe after we split up he really got over me and he was never able to find someone else, so I’m 'the one that hung around long enough' or 'the only one that ever showed any interest'? I was prompted to write this because of recent behaviour: breaking our date the day before I left for a week. And no contact from him since I’ve been away, just an “hbd” for my birthday yesterday (literally a three letter text). Am I wrong to be upset and doubting?

 

Thank you for reading and thank you for any comfort/advice in advance. Please feel free to pose any questions and I will do my best to answer (briefly!).

[0hpenelope]

But, right now it seems he wants to be with me, but can’t see past my mistake and is abusing the power shift in our relationship.

 

You know, that's what I thought he was doing after you said all of those things in your post. It's not right that he's treating to the way he has because if he really wants to work it out, he will put in more effort in forgiving you.

 

I feel bad for some reason. Around the boards, it's easy to just vilify the dumper who left and question the reasons why they would come back, if that ever happened. You're sincere in your efforts to want to try again, it sounds like.

 

I don't know what else to say except good luck to you.

[aerogurl87]

I think you need to stand up to him and tell him in no uncertain terms what you expect out of him when it comes to his behaviour. Yes you did him wrong by leaving him before but honestly he should've gotten past that by now or not taken you back. If he doesn't change and uses the past as a "get out of jail free" card, then I'd walk. No one should put up with a partner who acts like they don't want to be with them.

[5brokenpieces]

You know, that's what I thought he was doing after you said all of those things in your post. It's not right that he's treating to the way he has because if he really wants to work it out, he will put in more effort in forgiving you.

 

I feel bad for some reason. Around the boards, it's easy to just vilify the dumper who left and question the reasons why they would come back, if that ever happened. You're sincere in your efforts to want to try again, it sounds like.

 

I don't know what else to say except good luck to you.

 

Thank you so much for your kind words. They sincerely make me feel a lot better. I have learned many things about myself, life and love through this ordeal.

 

I am confident that we can work this out and be happy. I think my mistake was wanting too much, too soon and trying too hard to make it work. I was overcompensating, which in hindsight appears desperate and weak - not my personality at all. I am just want what I want immediately after I have decided what that is. Saying we need to take it slow while trying to make up for lost time is a contradiction, but it is really difficult when there is so much history.

 

I'm certainly no expert, but I feel the following things may be true:

 

You can not just start where you left off. You have both grown and changed. You are entering a new relationship and need to treat it that way. In many ways, we are better together now. But, the separation has caused trust, control and power issues that did not exist before and it pains me that I have put us in a situation where mind games and political maneuvering are a reality now. My jumping to a long-term relationship scenario when he wasn't ready has caused a reaction of contempt, withdrawing and provoking distance. The person who initiates the reconciliation has been thinking and planning for this moment for a long time. The person on the receiving end is just getting the news, and as much as they may want what you want, they need time to think and plan, too. I'm a strategist and planner by trade. It takes me a while to make a decision, but once I have examined all the angles and analyzed the outcomes, I make a decision and act immediately. I need to give him the same opportunity, otherwise I am controlling him and that is not loving.

 

You need to continue to work on yourself and grow independently, with your partner there as a source of strength, support and comfort, giving the same to them. Yes, I need and want him in my life. But, in realizing that putting my needs for independence and personal growth over our love caused this split in the first place, I subjugated myself (and self-respect) to him and have put way too much time and energy into the reconciliation. There needs to be a healthy balance between 'me' and 'we'. Anything else comes off as unbalanced aka 'crazy'. Having said that, success in love trumps all other successes in your life. Loving and being loved in return is success.

 

No contact/low contact is an ongoing process, as painful as it is, even through the reconciliation. You need to keep the emotional spaces between you clear until they naturally become one again, the bond of intimacy cannot be forced. In a way, you need to recreate the trepidation of the first few months you were dating in the first relationship. I think of it as a jigsaw puzzle with a million pieces that was perfectly put together. Someone came along and took it apart, put it away and back in the toy box. When you go to put it back together, it will probably be easier and faster because you've done it before and you know where the pieces go - but it still takes time. You need to do it one section at a time, stepping back and taking a break to clear your head. You just can't force everything into place, pounding the 'almost fitting' connectors down to make things fit overnight. Some of the pieces may be missing, broken or mixed up with other puzzles. Maybe too many pieces. Maybe you need to buy a whole new puzzle. But you can only figure that out by regularly taking a break, stepping back and looking at the big picture in it's various stages of completeness.

 

I am going to take a giant step back, I think - let him have the control. When he needs me or wants me, I'll be there to take a step forward with him. If he treats me in a way that is hurtful or disrespectful, I will let him know and take a step back. I know this will work out - I too need to trust and give up control and just be there for support without expecting the world in a New York minute. I have a million ways to take care of myself and occupy myself while he's thinking, planning and deciding about us.

 

(Oh my, that was not brief! Sorry:))

[Graceful]

Broken,

 

You wrote a book. I could write a book back to you.

 

Where to begin. There's so much in your story, so I'll say the last thing first.

 

If you want to stand any decent chance with your ex, you need to go to couples counseling. You need a third party mediator to help you address where you were, and where you are going. You need a third party to help you navigate how to get from where you are now to where you want to go. This requires intervention.

 

Also, and I don't want to upset you, but you are obviously in a turmoil over your situation. Have you ever been in therapy yourself? It's hard to know if what you are feeling and the way you reacting is temporary, or if your mood swings are brought on by more than his behavior, and are somewhere in the bi-polar family. Not saying you are bipolar but your mood swings sound so intense and go from so high to so low, that's just not normal, even after he has not been particularly nice to you.

 

You're walking on egg shells with him. You both have issues up the wazoo. I agree that even though the separation means your marriage is over, and you are as good as divorced in your heart and mind, you are nonetheless still married and if asked, you cannot say you are single. The secrecy and awkwardness there sounds palpable.

 

In our 12 year history, we were adoring, hypersexual and romantic for 9 years slowing cooling down in the last 3 years to what I would term as a ‘deep friendship/comfort that became less sexual though regularly intimate (cuddling, hugging, light pecks, etc.)’

This synopsis, coupled with the way you described your r/l and marriage to your current husband, and now going back to your ex, speaks for itself. You attach a lot of your self-worth to your sexual identity and the amount of sex you give and receive. That's fine. You're definitely over-compensating for the time you lost, but it also sounds like you are terrified of ever going back to or having a r/l with a barren sex life. It seems you are still terrified of that with your ex now. You need some help to find a balance. Yes, the wild, crazy hormones do calm down. It's not just love, it's dopamine, your endorphins and prolactin, and oxytocin. You're getting high off the dopamine that your body produces after you have sex, it produces a (literal) high for you like a drug, and then falls off. and the lows you also experience are from the dopamine wearing off and other chemical changes. Men do get tired faster b/c they do not replenish as quickly as women so if he says he wants you to back off, that is the truth. If you take that personally all the time, well, you can't do that.

 

As far as the job you got, same thing, same behavior. Your threw yourself into your job. Again, this is what is making me feel as though you have a mood condition or OCD, type A personality or whatever you want to call it. But I think shedding some light on this for yourself is to your benefit.

 

When I announced that I was leaving, the words fell out like bowling balls hitting the floor and I regretted saying them almost seconds later. The shock and pain was pretty devastating, I guess. What he would later term as, “having murdered us”. He almost immediately shut down, quietly agreed to my terms and became distant, cold and withdrawn. Within days of our separation I became despondent and inconsolable, frantically begging for forgiveness

Again, more mood issues, extreme highs, extreme lows. Breaking up and immediately regretting it. The pain hit you and you wanted to end the pain so fast you didn't know what to do, so you assumed you must be making a mistake. Just speculating. Then you end up marrying someone you know you don't love, but who rescued you from those moods, at least for a while. But you sound like you were reasonably aware of what you were doing, and not deluding yourself. You were deluding yourself you could make it work, perhaps, not sure.

 

ex-husband this way, I view our relationship as morphine for someone in incredible pain. Our dating/marriage was loveless (we were together just over four years and have not had sex in more than three years, not even on our wedding night), but we have a good friendship and he is good to me: he is a champion for me, his family is amazing, my friends find him charming and he always treats my family with respect.

More of the same.

 

I quit the dream job a year ago due to complications from stress and ill health as a result.

Again, more. Sorry. You went over the top again.

 

He forgave me. Three months into my separation, we began dating again.

Again, this is awfully soon.

 

My health problems related to my last job have left me underweight (I’m just over 5’11” and currently 127lbs) and weakened – which has put serious strain on my heart.

Did you develop an eating disorder? Celiac disease?

 

However, I think in my desire to see this work, my sense that our dwindling sex life may have been a factor in our break-up (and possibly from being abstinent for so long), I may be a little ‘over-enthusiastic’.

Mentioned above.

 

But, sometimes I feel like I'm boring him, and his exaggerated yawning (it’s only 10pm) is a signal to me to get lost or I can physically feel him start to withdraw. This feels like rejection.

He's not 17, he might be tired. Yes, you are taking this too personally.

 

As far as his anger toward you, the eye rolling, the upset over small things and not communicating nicely, yes, that's a problem. That needs to be addressed. That's just going to lead to a downward spiral. But again, I don't know if that's something you can do alone or need a counselor for. But it's not acceptable.

 

This ‘new’ relationship is beginning to feel unrequited. We agreed to take things slow, but we’ve also got a 17+ year history and it’s not like we need to do the 1st, 2nd, 3rd date dance to figure out what were about. And even if we treat this as a new relationship, on our first date we both agreed that our love is undeniable, we want to be with each other forever, buy a house and have children. I told him “I love you” about a month ago. He said “I love you too, I think”.

More, again. You are rushing. He needs time. It's either worth the time to you, or it's not. It's either worth the time and effort it will take to be on track, or it isn't. Your choice, and his choice.

 

 

In addition to the rejection and the guilt, there’s something else I hadn’t noticed before: contempt. That is: eye-rolling, sarcasm, and exaggerated sighing in reaction to things I might say or do. He’s made some off-side remarks about my mom and dad – not fair.

Not acceptable. Don't care what else is going on. Not acceptable.

 

Some nights I go home overjoyed and overwhelmed in love. Some nights I go home crying and overwhelmed with pain.

Again ...

 

I cannot continue to feel the unbearable pain of feeling as though my love is one-sided. I hope he can come to understand the extent of my kindness, respect, admiration and desire, and be willing reciprocate whole-heartedly. But, right now it seems he wants to be with me, but can’t see past my mistake and is abusing the power shift in our relationship.

Going NC without going into IC or CC isn't going to help you. You need intervention so you can work all of this out. By virtue of leaving him alone or him leaving you alone, you will be no better off in one week or 10 weeks. You need intervention, and you need it whether you decide to try to work things out with him or not.

 

I left for a week. And no contact from him since I’ve been away, just an “hbd” for my birthday yesterday (literally a three letter text). Am I wrong to be upset and doubting?

You are not wrong. Get some help and slow down. It took many years to get to where you are now, it is going to take more than 3 months to know for sure if the two of you should be together, but if you're both not willing to put in the time and effort, well, you know you can't do it alone. Take care.

[5brokenpieces]

Broken,

You wrote a book. I could write a book back to you.

Where to begin. There's so much in your story, so I'll say the last thing first.

Thank you for your honest advice and thorough assessment. It made me think and was a welcome wake up call. And, I'm beginning to think I should write a book, or at least get a blog

If you want to stand any decent chance with your ex, you need to go to couples counseling. You need a third party mediator to help you address where you were, and where you are going. You need a third party to help you navigate how to get from where you are now to where you want to go. This requires intervention.

I would certainly be willing to give it a try, although I feel he would be resistant to it. I feel as though this would be seen as ‘moving too fast’ behaviour or a flaky female insecurity/neediness thing as well as a complete aversion to the idea of therapy. My ex is definitely the ‘strong silent type’ (which is my type. My fictional crushes: Mr. Darcy, Hamlet, Heathcliffe, Vampire Bill, Han Solo, Indiana Jones). And to tell the truth, I am the female equivalent: I enjoy comfortable silence – I really don’t like talking just to talk (the way other women do it seems to me almost a nervous behaviour and can be annoying) and not all feelings need to be shared. I avoid romantic comedies like the plague – although I love grand/intense romances like Gone with the Wind, Wuthering Heights or Romeo and Juliet (ha! I just realized that the protagonists die and/or end up alone in all three stories). The type of communication and expression that involves talking about feelings is clearly not our forte. We talk a lot, but normally about mutual interests, intellectual pursuits... Talking about feelings would have us both running for the hills – we’re both introverts. The one thing we both do really well is listen and understand. My experience with talkers and extroverts is they don’t listen or understand. They just use the time you are talking to think of what they are going to say. I suppose that’s why I write so much: reading and writing seems to me to be a clearer, more easily understood form of expression. That being said, I would try counselling. Any tips on how to convince the man?

Also, and I don't want to upset you, but you are obviously in a turmoil over your situation. Have you ever been in therapy yourself? It's hard to know if what you are feeling and the way you reacting is temporary, or if your mood swings are brought on by more than his behavior, and are somewhere in the bi-polar family. Not saying you are bipolar but your mood swings sound so intense and go from so high to so low, that's just not normal, even after he has not been particularly nice to you.

No upset or offense taken. I am impressed by your insight. I have been involved in therapy on and off consistently (that’s an oxymoron!) since I was 8. I was identified as a gifted kid and have been seeing various psychiatrists ever since. Smart is just shy of crazy. I have been diagnosed at varying times of my life with Major Depression, OCD, Social Anxiety Disorder (these diagnoses were close, but did not feel right) and most recently ADHD (which feels right and explain the other disorders). My moods are very intense. I prefer to think of it as ‘passionate’. But usually, there is a positive trigger that puts me on a high or a negative trigger that puts me low. ADHD and Bipolar disorder are similar in the intensity of the mood shifts, but BPD is usually random and sustained where as ADHD mood snaps have definite causes. The reaction’s just a bit out of whack.

You're walking on egg shells with him. You both have issues up the wazoo. I agree that even though the separation means your marriage is over, and you are as good as divorced in your heart and mind, you are nonetheless still married and if asked, you cannot say you are single. The secrecy and awkwardness there sounds palpable.

Agreed. I believe that my ex is depressed. I’m more sensitive and tolerant of his low moods because I understand the nature and origin of neurological stress and how isolating and debilitating it can be. I would like to support him.

And, the marriage is a huge obstacle. We’re both a little old-fashioned when it comes to ideals of honour, nobility and gentlemanly conduct. This alone may be a reason to slow it to a crawl if not a complete stop. I just couldn’t go another day without letting him know how I felt. And I’m on a bit of a clock. I really want a family and I just turned 36. Time, unfortunately, is not a friend of my ovaries.

This synopsis, coupled with the way you described your r/l and marriage to your current husband, and now going back to your ex, speaks for itself. You attach a lot of your self-worth to your sexual identity and the amount of sex you give and receive. That's fine. You're definitely over-compensating for the time you lost, but it also sounds like you are terrified of ever going back to or having a r/l with a barren sex life. It seems you are still terrified of that with your ex now. You need some help to find a balance. Yes, the wild, crazy hormones do calm down. It's not just love, it's dopamine, your endorphins and prolactin, and oxytocin. You're getting high off the dopamine that your body produces after you have sex, it produces a (literal) high for you like a drug, and then falls off. and the lows you also experience are from the dopamine wearing off and other chemical changes. Men do get tired faster b/c they do not replenish as quickly as women so if he says he wants you to back off, that is the truth. If you take that personally all the time, well, you can't do that.

I like sex, but I wouldn’t characterize it as an addiction or low self-esteem. It is a way that I choose to express my love beyond words. We are not talkative people, but sexually and intimately we say a lot. I am physically incapable of having sex or being turned on by a man I do not love (common to most women and men, I think). I have only had sexual relations with 3 people in my life (first HS bf, the ex and ex-husband). The sex with the ex is a religious experience. And I agree, it has a drug-like addictive quality – in the sense that something pleasurable is worth repeating. But maybe I’m rationalizing: ADHD is characterized by abnormally low levels of dopamine. The sex with my ex-husband is absent because he is a binge drinker and because I do not love him. He parties every 2-3 days, gets drunk and spends the next day or two in recovery. Sex is not possible with a drunk. Love is not possible with a drunk. And sex with a hungover person has zero appeal because of the poisonous odour coming out in his sweat.

As far as the job you got, same thing, same behavior. Your threw yourself into your job. Again, this is what is making me feel as though you have a mood condition or OCD, type A personality or whatever you want to call it. But I think shedding some light on this for yourself is to your benefit.

 

Again, more mood issues, extreme highs, extreme lows. Breaking up and immediately regretting it. The pain hit you and you wanted to end the pain so fast you didn't know what to do, so you assumed you must be making a mistake. Just speculating. Then you end up marrying someone you know you don't love, but who rescued you from those moods, at least for a while. But you sound like you were reasonably aware of what you were doing, and not deluding yourself. You were deluding yourself you could make it work, perhaps, not sure.

Did you develop an eating disorder? Celiac disease?

I have ADHD, so the ‘executive functions’ (productivity, organization, planning) are missing, deficient or out of whack. Funnily enough, I’m a Strategic Planner and Accountant by trade. There is a seemingly contradictory symptom of Attention Deficit known as ‘hyperfocus’, the ability to concentrate intensely on a subject or project. When I’m dealing with numbers, strat plans and business models, I can zone out and concentrate for hours – so much that I can’t hear people around me and can ignore eating and sleeping. This is what happens to me at work: if the job or assignment catches my interest, I’m a company’s greatest asset; if it doesn’t, I’m a liability. My mind is hardwired for ‘all or nothing’ thinking – I’m like a cat in an aviary. I’m paralyzed by over-stimulus and relentless when I settle on a target. Sounds crazy, and it is. My neurological miscoding is supposedly toxic to relationships: we’re either giving too much or taking too much. But, now that I understand my biology, it helps to be able to recognize the behaviours and work the ‘healthy more balanced behaviours’ muscle.

My weight loss is 3 fold: 1) I developed a paraesophageal hiatal hernia in my last job (my stomach is literally in my throat), and eating is painful. 2) My ADHD medication is also an appetite suppressant. 3) My doctors have put me on a strict diet of 6 meals a day to benefit both the ADHD and the reflux induced by the hernia supplemented by high protein shakes. I have surgery scheduled in March for the hernia. I’ve been pretty successful so far following the diet and starting to feel better physically and mentally and slowly gaining weight. The side effect of the meds seems to be wearing off over time.

Sure, we both have problems up the wazoo (love that word!). But, why be normal? I have been enlightened though. I think I need to concentrate on getting better physically and mentally before I throw myself into a relationship too quickly. I have also began using an ADD coach, so I can manage my time and priorities more effectively.

As far as his anger toward you, the eye rolling, the upset over small things and not communicating nicely, yes, that's a problem. That needs to be addressed. That's just going to lead to a downward spiral. But again, I don't know if that's something you can do alone or need a counselor for. But it's not acceptable.

Going NC without going into IC or CC isn't going to help you. You need intervention so you can work all of this out. By virtue of leaving him alone or him leaving you alone, you will be no better off in one week or 10 weeks. You need intervention, and you need it whether you decide to try to work things out with him or not.

You are not wrong. Get some help and slow down. It took many years to get to where you are now, it is going to take more than 3 months to know for sure if the two of you should be together, but if you're both not willing to put in the time and effort, well, you know you can't do it alone. Take care.

Thank you immensely for your insight. I thought I might be making myself vulnerable by posting in this forum, but it has been very therapeutic. It has been very helpful to articulate my situation and made me more aware that my dilemma is my own making, and the answer lies with changing myself and taking care of my own issues before projecting it on my relationships (isn’t that always the answer?). While my ex’s behaviours I’ve described are blameworthy, how I choose to react to them will define the success or failure of our future. This discussion has purged my mental stress and my mind is much calmer. Thank you.

[5brokenpieces]

I think you need to stand up to him and tell him in no uncertain terms what you expect out of him when it comes to his behaviour. Yes you did him wrong by leaving him before but honestly he should've gotten past that by now or not taken you back. If he doesn't change and uses the past as a "get out of jail free" card, then I'd walk. No one should put up with a partner who acts like they don't want to be with them.

 

 

You're absolutely right. While I have called him out for some things, I have not been consistent in expressing my expectations. To be honest, a lot of the unkindness caught me completely by surprise. It is completely out of character.

 

We really do teach people how to treat us. I have resolved to give him a pass on the stuff in the past - it will likely lead to defensiveness. But, now that I recognize the behaviours, I will not let another curveball get by me without at least letting him know how it makes me feel, standing up for myself and preserving my dignity by leaving the situation if need be. The rest is up to him, I suppose.

[Banker Chick]

My boyfriend and I have been dating for about a year and 1/2 but broke up for 4 months during that time. During the 4 months we tried friends, FWB, NC, LC, etc. and through all of that slowly figured out we DID want to be together. While he was the one that intiated the break up, it was because of many, many really crappy things I did and my poor behavior towards him (no cheating just general bitchiness, etc). I broke his heart.

 

Once we broke up and I had a little time, I realized I wanted to be with him and that I was willing to do what it took. He, on the other hand, was not so sure. I think he wanted it but was also very scared that it would just end up being more of the same.

 

During the 4 months, I would push for reconciliation and he would pull away. He would get mad if I tried to rush things. He would get frustrated if I assumed things would quickly return to normal. I think these feelings were a product of him being hurt so badly and also being resentful that I felt I could treat him however I wanted and then just swoop in and have it magically be good again. I still wanted to control everything, including his feelings and the timeline on those feelings.

 

I think some of this may be what your ex is feeling, although maybe even on a larger scale due to the time you were together and the events that happened while you were apart.

 

I wish I had some words of wisdom, but I don't. I just know it took my guy awhile to come to terms with everything and realize I was serious about being together. I think he struggled internally with wanting to be together but feeling like he shouldn't be such a "pushover" ... almost as if he felt he should make me work harder for his love since I hadn't appreciated it previously.

 

Maybe just back off a little and give it time. I know it's hard to take it slow but maybe let him lead things for awhile, even if that means you don't see each other as much as you'd like or have sex as often. He probably feels some of his self-respect is at stake here.

[You Go Girl]

I think you're simply---too needy.

 

It's not your fault, it's your situation. You're harboring guilt from letting this guy go many years ago. All that is in the past, and if he hasn't forgiven you by now, you should run for the hills, because you're going to be paying for years.

That said, maybe he is exercising logical trust earning. It doesn't happen overnight, even with a long history. It is a new start, and new trust has to be built.

 

You want it all now. From your ovaries to your past marriage disaster, you want to reconcile and make life perfect. Nothing wrong with wanting to get the good life with this guy. But you're putting stress on yourself, the relationship, and probably, him.

Hence why he may distance himself. He's not sure that he wants all this rushed pressure especially because the trust isn't rebuilt yet!

 

Try calming down on the sex. Once and see if he initiates the second time? Just because this relationship does have to be 50/50, and it's NOT.

 

The demeaning actions, eye rolling etc., are a lack of respect. Where did that come from? I don't see the answer in the details you have provided. I think maybe you don't see why he is disrespecting you either.

 

A "hbd" text? Oh wow. Sorry to say this, but could he have been any LESS giving to you on your birthday? You're not worthy of a phone call?

 

I'm wondering if this guy wants to torture you for leaving him years ago with that type of action. Make sure he's not a sadist.

 

You can see that this is very unbalanced and it needs adjustment. However I also think that sitting back waiting for him to call is going to drive you absolutely crazy. I mean giving him 50% of that power, of that initiation. I suggest that you throw yourself into your hobbies, friends, whatever, and focus less time on him so that getting this relationship balanced in eagerness doesn't drive you up the wall.

 

If you're ADHD, then so am I. I relate very much to your moods.

 

Who wouldn't be enthusiastic at finally getting a shot at the one they let get away after a sexless loveless marriage? So forgive yourself for being eager.

It is important though to focus on where his head is at. What has he been doing with the last x number years? How has he grown, changed? Who is he now? You are both the same people from years ago, and you are also different people. You both have changed.

 

Lastly, Is he still the right fit? This is a discovery process. Give yourself the chance to discover this answer. It may not be he is the right fit anymore, or he may be. But you have to let that be revealed naturally, and you can't force it with fairytales. That's not chastizing you. I get it, really I do, because I can be the same way!

 

I suggest you ask a few subtle key questions and find out if this guy is harboring resentment from years ago. Could be an eye-opener right there.

 

Almost forgot to say--stop letting guilt make you into a doormat. You have to forgive yourself for leaving him years ago, even IF you do get together, have kids, get married. You still have to forgive yourself or you send out the message stomp on me, I deserve it.

Edited January 13, 2011 by You Go Girl

[ASIANRAINFOREST]

totally with u...im feeling the same pain as u do...hug....

[Mary-Jane]

I'm sort of in the same place as you are at the moment and I personally think it's all down to the biological clock ticking and the fear that you might miss out. Due to this time constraint I even convinced myself I have intense feelings for my ex when frankly I do not, it's just that I wasted 5 child-bearing years on some other bastard and my ex from before asked me to marry him during that time which I refused and regret bitterly now, but I had no idea how horribly things would turn out with the 'love of my life'. So it's like this - here I am rebuilding a relationship with someone I probably should not be with at all just because he was chasing me for some years and offering marriage and I haven't met anyone else really, and there's not much time now. And men are not nice if they sense desperation and that you need them more than they need you so I am very worried and stressed this won't go in the direction I want and like I said I haven't been in love with him for years. So what I would like to say not as an advice - but something I would have done myself if I actually was with someone I loved - I'd fall pregnant asap without asking him or anything, if it didn't work out with the guy - sad, but still fine, at least I would have a child of love. Something which probably won't happen to me...at least on this occasion. I also do hope that you will be able to cool down at some point and see this for what it is - is there a chance you meet/date some other people just to be more confident and not place all hopes on this guy because it's not looking good as it is, not in the emotional state you're in

[D78]

... I'd fall pregnant asap without asking him or anything, if it didn't work out with the guy - sad, but still fine, at least I would have a child of love. Something which probably won't happen to me...at least on this occasion...

 

OMG. So... the TOS of this website say that I am to be supportive and not judgmental. In my most supportive and least judgmental voice, I ask you - do you really think this is the right way to treat someone you love?

 

Fall pregnant...?

 

If the father is unimportant to you, you should consider going to a sperm bank.

[Mary-Jane]

OMG. So... the TOS of this website say that I am to be supportive and not judgmental. In my most supportive and least judgmental voice, I ask you - do you really think this is the right way to treat someone you love?

 

Fall pregnant...?

 

If the father is unimportant to you, you should consider going to a sperm bank.

 

Father is most important. That's why.

[5brokenpieces]

Maybe just back off a little and give it time. I know it's hard to take it slow but maybe let him lead things for awhile, even if that means you don't see each other as much as you'd like or have sex as often. He probably feels some of his self-respect is at stake here.

This is definitely my plan. I totally understand what you are saying about ‘being in control’. Our entire history is me controlling the course and being the initiator: courtship, breaking up, marrying someone else, reconciliation, wanting a family – and wanting it all on my schedule. It has all been about me and what I want and when I want it; I’m actually stunned by his patience now that I reflect on how bratty I’ve been. He’s been remarkably supportive through all my whims and whimsy.

 

If I were to truly empathize, I can see how these behaviours directed toward me from someone I love would drive me nuts. I can empathize. I just have to think about my mom and how her sometimes controlling, manipulative way of getting me to do things can have the exact opposite effect: resentment, rejection, moodiness, irritability. I know my mom loves me and she wants what’s best for me – but I can’t stand it when people try to control me.

 

I know his passive-aggressive behaviours are little jabs at me, trying to maintain control in the situation. I think I will simply let him have control; this will be an epic test of my restraint and resilience, but I believe I owe us this chance. He is not in the slightest abusive, neglectful or hurtful by nature, and is very gentle, protective and supportive. That is why I can only assume he is reacting to my unbridled enthusiasm and ‘going into strat plan mode’. I’ve been hyperfocusing on our future like a kid embroiled in a lego fantasy. They say that kids with ADHD eventually grow out of it – but I think adults with ADHD have never grown up.

 

Provided that letting him control the future doesn’t cause me to feel rejected, stonewalled, scorned or lose self-respect, it will be freeing to just ‘let it go’ and enjoy the ride.

[5brokenpieces]

I'm sort of in the same place as you are at the moment and I personally think it's all down to the biological clock ticking and the fear that you might miss out.

Maybe. I appreciate the role biology is playing, but I’ve never really wanted children before until a few months ago. Part of this whole situation was a bit of ‘spiritual’ awakening. I am an atheist through and through, so a god/love connection caught me off guard.

 

I had been convinced through other people and bad self-help books that success meant: titles, property, degrees/doctorates, money, possessions, status, professional achievement, having good looking, powerful friends and control over my life and time. I believe this is why the ‘dream job’ that nearly killed me was so hypnotic for the first 3 or 4 years: I was accumulating success. It was wishful thinking that it could be defined so easily and that whatever happiness was out there for me was contingent on being 'successful'. Or, maybe it was being labelled 'gifted' -- high expectations can shatter your ego when you are underperforming and everyone expected, wanted and programmed you to be a super robot from an early age.

 

After nearly being killed by my job from enormous stress brought on by taking on too much, too many roles and generally underperforming by overreaching (I think this is my theme), a change came when I asked myself the question: Why the f 'should' I want that? What is imperative or worthy or valuable about any of it? Why does acquiring more of it just make me feel like more and more of a failure? The ‘it’ being money, success, recognition, vacations, properties. I wasn’t me: I was an evil underling of corporate greed (how to squeeze out more profit for the company by screwing my coworkers, learning about politics/pandering and how organizations get things done through scapegoating and backstabbing, learning how to manipulate and control people by exploiting their human needs of love and acceptance, using art and creativity as a marketing ploy, dressing like a douche, having meaningless jibber-jabber with ‘droids practicing that same manipulative, controlled and dishonest dance that is ‘public discourse’; and becoming inauthentic) This is probably when my sickness began – I began having panic attacks in late 2007. It’s a very scary thing when you haven’t experienced it before – like the anaphylactic shock of discovering you are allergic to bee stings. You are aware it’s all in your head, but your brain is literally choking you and wants you to die. Shortly after, the hernia developed from the stresses of repeated hyperventilation and I have had trouble eating ever since – making me feel even more run down and weak.

 

Success, as I have come to learn, is love - there is no science that I can easily call upon to explain it, like 'oh that's just a bio-chemical reaction to such and such'. I know there are scientific reasons/explanations/neurological chemicals to explain physical love, but I feel it is definitely something outside of me – a force that flows all around us and binds us together (and, yes, maybe those are just atoms and sub-atomic particles). But, I can see now how some would get the notion of an otherness or a presence outside them-self, like a soul or an angel or god, what have you. All I know is that the sole ultimate value of my life is to love: it’s more important than sunshine or oxygen. And not sexual or romantic love, but charity and loving others, loving my family, loving myself and putting as much of that special energy into the world as I can before I die.

 

So what I would like to say not as an advice - but something I would have done myself if I actually was with someone I loved - I'd fall pregnant asap without asking him or anything, if it didn't work out with the guy - sad, but still fine, at least I would have a child of love.

 

My success redefined is why I want to have children now. But, I don’t think I want a child so much that I could deceive the father. If pregnancy happens, great; if it doesn’t that’s cool too. But it definitely has to be a decision between two people, mother and father. I will continue to use protection in good faith until I get the ‘all clear’. Should the bioClock tick down to its last chime, I am happy to adopt or just put more energy into helping underprivileged children find the love, security and support they need so they can grow up and be able to love. But then, one of my best friends just had her first baby at 40, so I’ll take a chance on a few more years if it means a mutual decision borne out of love.

 

 

Thank you for your story. It is very interesting and instructive to hear all of the alternate paths and possibility that can be derived from the same circumstances.

[Mrlonelyone]

To Mary Jane

 

As someone who may well have been used in the way you propose using a man let me say one thing.

 

That stinks. Don't assume that simply "having a child of love" would be a great thing. The man may want a relationship with you weather you think it could work or not. I know I am tortured by and for the fact that me and a woman had such a child...and now have basically no relationship for many years. In fact I hate myself for doing such a thing.

 

Please don't tell people to do that. It is a horrible thing to do for a man. It's only redeeming quality is that at some point in the future times may be better. But it's a long sentence 25 to life.

[Mary-Jane]

To Mary Jane

 

As someone who may well have been used in the way you propose using a man let me say one thing.

 

That stinks. Don't assume that simply "having a child of love" would be a great thing. The man may want a relationship with you weather you think it could work or not. I know I am tortured by and for the fact that me and a woman had such a child...and now have basically no relationship for many years. In fact I hate myself for doing such a thing.

 

Please don't tell people to do that. It is a horrible thing to do for a man. It's only redeeming quality is that at some point in the future times may be better. But it's a long sentence 25 to life.

 

Guys I am slightly upset by the interpretation of what I said, because I didn't imply that I would use somebody for that, I was actually talking about being in love with somebody and when you are in love you want his babies. If the timing is unfortunate due to age then I do want it to happen even if we don't get married first or ever for some reason. Quite a few marriages start that way too - are all those men used? I never suggested piercing a condom or anything like that - what I meant is I would want it to happen and would let it happen if I had a chance, that's biology, that's a very strong feeling

Edited January 14, 2011 by Mary-Jane

[D78]

So what I would like to say not as an advice - but something I would have done myself if I actually was with someone I loved - I'd fall pregnant asap without asking him or anything, if it didn't work out with the guy - sad, but still fine, at least I would have a child of love.

 

I interpret this to mean you would get knocked up without even asking the person you supposedly loved, because your bio clock is ticking. It sounds like you would make a decision that would drastically change you and your partner's life without even discussing it with him. It's what you want, and if he doesn't like it, oh well. And never mind how the baby will feel. You got one.

 

Sorry for my misinterpretation. (And sorry for highjacking this thread - I'm gone, I swear )

[ames]

Hi chances, i'm really sorry to hear about your situation.

 

Everyone here keeps telling you to give him space...why?? You gave him space while you were over..that was plenty of time for the two of you to determine if you wanted to get back together or not...

look, i was planning on giving you an "essay of an answer", but as soon as i read that he sent you a meaningless sms on your birthday...well, i think there's your answer hun.

Hope things work out for you..i personally believe that it's probably best that you end this..doesn't seem like he's THAT into it? I don't know.. i think the damage has been done. You need to concentrate on your health above anything xxx

Edited January 16, 2011 by ames