FreeheartLover Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Ok, here's a good topic for all of us active daters. When on a date, who pays?! I think there's several different factors that go into it: length of relationship, range of comfort, assertiveness, personalities, etc. My boyfried of 3 months bought the first few dinner dates, but then we started splitting them more recently. Sometimes he entirely avoids paying and I foot the bill. But he makes way more money than me! He has said that he felt taken advantage of in the past, and if he pays for everything, he feels like he's "renting" his girlfriends. But why should I have to pay for his past experiences with money and women? (pun intended) I would be happy if he paid for every time we went out together. I'm not broke by any means but I am part-time student with high rent $$ I manage my finances just fine, but he makes my salary many times over, I think, yet always makes it a point to not pay for everything. Who do you think should pay when you go out on dates? Or is the man paying the bill an outdated dating formality that has been replaced with going Dutch? Honestly though, paying for my own drinks at a bar with him does not make me want to go back home and have sexy times with him. Just sayin'
Analeigh Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 I usually start off with alternating paying for dates, if they are ok with that. He gets one, I get the next, etc. That way I feel NO pressure that they think they are paying to sleep with me. If we date past about two months, they usually start paying for most dates. If there is something specific that I want to do, I usually pay for it. Especially if it is something more expensive, like tickets to a show or a food festival, or a super fancy meal that I was really in the mood for. If they let me, I will pay. My boyfriend makes more than twice what I make. I still try to pay for a date or something at least every week or two. I know it makes him feel appreciated and I don't feel like a slacker. I have seen friends get taken advantage of by gold diggers, and that's the last thing I ever want to be. I have had boyfriends buy me expensive presents in the past, and I have only accepted them if I really feel like it made them happy to buy it for me. That's just me, though.
In The Green Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 It's nice if a guy pays, I won't lie. But with the current guy I am seeing I have been nearly 50/50 with him from the get go. Neither of us make very much. If your guy wants you to pay more then he'll also have to resign himself to seeing you less as your plans will revolve more around whether you can afford to do anything that particular week. Never stretch yourself financially for a guy, women have to be careful to be fiscally responsible.
carhill Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Well-worn topic on LS... Who do you think should pay when you go out on dates? I ask ladies on dates which I can afford. IME, while my net worth might be far greater, their cash flow of late has generally been better. So, hence, I choose dating options which match my circumstances. If they are interested, then it's a date. Or is the man paying the bill an outdated dating formality that has been replaced with going Dutch? I personally don't think it's outdated, but many disagree. Most women I date 'blend' after awhile, like springing for some after-dinner drinks or covering the tip or xxxx. It's not 'dutch' and it's not totally one-sided financially. TBH, I don't give it much thought. By doing what I can afford, what I give is given freely and without expectation. That's it. Good luck
gizbug Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 First date, I pay. 2nd date, we split. That's just how it goes with me.
zengirl Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 My BF makes 3x what I do as a teacher, so he pays for a lot. I don't expect him to (unless he very distinctly chooses something he knows I cannot afford, and it's very clear he's going to pay for it, which makes me mildly uncomfortable. . . but it's happened), but he thinks I'm 'poor' by his standards so he is quite happy to do so. I've paid for more of the dating expenses, when I was the SO with a higher earning, and I've paid for about even, when that was about even. These have just been my experiences---not a rule. I think each couple works out their own system. My BF has had some money stresses lately (dying down now) so I've been paying for almost everything the last few weeks, because my finances are great right now. I made some extra cash over winter break, even. It ebbs and flows. I've never really had it be an issue the way it is on this board, sometimes. I'm always prepared to pay for myself, but men who are excessive in calculation and getting everything even would bother me, mostly because that's not my style in life, with money or anything else. So would men who were embittered about the behavior of exes, especially when they themselves were complicit in the behavior. That sounds like not owning your own circumstances and choices, which is lame.
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Honestly though, paying for my own drinks at a bar with him does not make me want to go back home and have sexy times with him. Just sayin' I'm sorry, but with your money for sex attitude... he should not be paying for you. If you can't pay for stuff, then YOU plan dates that are more affordable to your budget... or find a way to make more money. Clearly you are the limiting factor here, so it's your job to work around that. I'm just sick to death of women expecting me to pay for everything. I'm sure your BF is too.
Treasa Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Back when my ex had more disposable income than I did, if he asked if I wanted to go out, I would honestly say I couldn't afford it, but we could make dinner together. Sometimes he'd insist on paying for me, and other times I would return the favor by having him over for a nice sit-down meal that I made that hardly cost me anything (compared to eating out), but that he really enjoyed.
Jazzari Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 It's nice if the guy pays, but I consider it a bonus and not something that should be expected. I'm more comfortable with splitting the bill or alternating.
ConflictedGuy27 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 as a guy, I prefer to pay. it's probably an ego thing with me. I feel like I'm providing & taking care of her in a masculine way and she doing the same in a feminine way, come dessert time. all too often I have girls insist I pay all the time so they insist on picking up the bill. I don't fight it @ that point. I just make a mental note and either insist I pay the next time cause she got the last one, or I'll propose a game and if she wins, she pays, but if I win, I pay. I'll try to pick something/create something where she won't win. lol. I haven't really multidated so it's not terribly expensive.
catgotyourtongue Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Hi I do not make a lot of money, but I generally try to help pay or pay part (tip, drinks) when I can. I tend to date people who make a lot more than me, because I am in non profit, but I like to pitch in as much as I can, and don't do extravagant dates. I love being taken out to dinner, but I don't see it as a weekly thing, nor expect it. If someone wants to buy me a nice dinner (a boyfriend) I would accept sometimes, and sometimes just suggest something else less expensive. But I would surely buy next time, or share parts of bill on any continued basis. I just don't expect a man to wine and dine me all the time, and pay my way. I choose funkier more intimate places that I can afford better, rather than $50 dollar bottle of wine, and $30 entrees. Maybe we go to a cool Indian restaurant, that's BYOB and split the tab. Or a place with free music and we just have a few drinks..we both pitch in. But, I also allow someome who earns a lot more than me, to treat me at times. For sure. I also pay attention to what his bills and expenses might be (does he make good money but have two kids he is putting through college and an ex wife?). Just because someone makes good money, does not mean they have or save a lot, nor do I want to blow through their bank accounts, it's so not me. I would be more tuned on by how much he saves, than spends. I live in financial fear so that's my "stuff" and I am always money-conscious. I dated a great guy many years ago in the restaurant business. He almost always insisted on paying, and would always say "you don't have a tab with me" it was part of his way, his job, his dating, that made him always want to cover the FOOD part. I thought it was so sweet and caring, but we did argue about it at times cause I felt badly. I tried to help more than he wanted. He did it out of love, not richness. I pitched in as often as I could with other things we spent on...but the food thing, he was one paying 95% of it.
musemaj111 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Honestly though, paying for my own drinks at a bar with him does not make me want to go back home and have sexy times with him. Just sayin' Well, at least you are honest that you want men to pay you in return for sex. You are much better than other women who expect a man to pay but wont even give him sex. In business, such a practice is called 'Fraud'.
Confusedalways Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I have decided that a man should pay for the first date- period. Be it an 8 dollar round of mini golf, a 2 dollar cup of coffee, or whatever. It's not the money but the action and intent behind the gesture. I will always offer but will never go on a second date with a guy who made me pay on the first. Originally I was kind of neutral on the subject, but the more time I spent on LS the more I decided men who want to quibble over 2 dollars when they should be trying to woo me isn't someone worth my time. My current boyfriend literally laughed in my face when I took my wallet out on our first date. That being said, I firmly believe once you are in an exclusive relationship with someone- things should be evenly split, barring someone making vastly more or less than the other person. I think going dutch in any scenario is tacky (whether dating or exclusive) unless there is very clearly no interest whatsoever in one party or the other.
musemaj111 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I have decided that a man should pay for the first date- period. Be it an 8 dollar round of mini golf, a 2 dollar cup of coffee, or whatever. It's not the money but the action and intent behind the gesture. I will always offer but will never go on a second date with a guy who made me pay on the first. Why even bother offering when you dont intend to pay? Thats just fake. If I were him I would laugh too because I would know you were just testing me. All men know the game. Originally I was kind of neutral on the subject, but the more time I spent on LS the more I decided men who want to quibble over 2 dollars when they should be trying to woo me isn't someone worth my time. The consensus among most men on is that whoever asks should expect to pay and afterwards the couple can alternate paying. Men are flexible and relenting. Its the women on the other hand who tend to be nitpicky over who should ask, who should pay, for how many dates, and so forth.
Confusedalways Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Why even bother offering when you dont intend to pay? Thats just fake. The consensus among most men on is that whoever asks should expect to pay and afterwards the couple can alternate paying. Men are flexible and relenting. Its the women on the other hand who tend to be nitpicky over who should ask, who should pay, for how many dates, and so forth. If I offer to pay and he accepts it I don't mind a bit- it just means there will clearly be no second date. Maybe whoever asks should pay- I don't know. I don't ask men out on dates, so I can't really speak to that.
musemaj111 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 If I offer to pay and he accepts it I don't mind a bit- it just means there will clearly be no second date. Exactly, that means you dont genuinely offer. You are making a fake offer. This is the reason men refuse to take women's offer to pay on dates because they know the offers are fake. Maybe whoever asks should pay- I don't know. I don't ask men out on dates, so I can't really speak to that. Now you realize how nice men are, dont you? Not only they ask you out, but they also pay for you. They do everything so you dont have to do anything. Obviously one sex is more selfless than the other. As I said elsewhere, the female gender is inherently narcissistic.
Jannah Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Exactly, that means you dont genuinely offer. You are making a fake offer. This is the reason men refuse to take women's offer to pay on dates because they know the offers are fake. Now you realize how nice men are, dont you? Not only they ask you out, but they also pay for you. They do everything so you dont have to do anything. Obviously one sex is more selfless than the other. Oh be quiet. Do you ask a woman out and pay for her because you want tips on how to knit a scarf? Probably not.
Confusedalways Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 How is that not a genuine offer? It wouldn't be genuine if I said "haha just kidding" after an acceptance of my offer. The offer is for me to pay for my half- ie: putting money toward the bill. If accepted- money goes toward the bill. I'm unsure how you're seeing this as not a genuine offer.
musemaj111 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) How is that not a genuine offer? It wouldn't be genuine if I said "haha just kidding" after an acceptance of my offer. The offer is for me to pay for my half- ie: putting money toward the bill. If accepted- money goes toward the bill. I'm unsure how you're seeing this as not a genuine offer. You are playing sly. You know what I meant. Offering to pay for your own share with the thought that if he let you pay for your own share you will punish him by never going to see him again is not genuine. Even children understand this concept. Do you ask a woman out and pay for her because you want tips on how to knit a scarf? Probably not. How many women these days know how to knit a scar in the first place? Edited January 12, 2011 by musemaj111
Confusedalways Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 You are playing sly. You know what I meant. Offering to pay for your own share with the thought that if he let you pay for your own share you will punish him by never going to see him again is not genuine. Even children understand this concept. How many women these days know how to knit a scar in the first place? It isn't punishment, it's incompatibility- nothing more, nothing less.
musemaj111 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 It isn't punishment, it's incompatibility- nothing more, nothing less. Obviously its an incompatibility. Its akin to a man who wont continue dating a woman if she doesnt put out by the second date. His interest lies solely in what he gets. He is not genuine.
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I have decided that a man should pay for the first date- period. Be it an 8 dollar round of mini golf, a 2 dollar cup of coffee, or whatever. It's not the money but the action and intent behind the gesture. I will always offer but will never go on a second date with a guy who made me pay on the first. Originally I was kind of neutral on the subject, but the more time I spent on LS the more I decided men who want to quibble over 2 dollars when they should be trying to woo me isn't someone worth my time. My current boyfriend literally laughed in my face when I took my wallet out on our first date. That being said, I firmly believe once you are in an exclusive relationship with someone- things should be evenly split, barring someone making vastly more or less than the other person. I think going dutch in any scenario is tacky (whether dating or exclusive) unless there is very clearly no interest whatsoever in one party or the other. I've found one universal theme among women who demand men pay for them. They are a total waste of time. I'm not going to pitch a fit over $20. Only on very rare occasions have a not paid or split the bill. I used to think it was just normal for a woman to want me to pay, and it didn't really mean anything in particular. I used to believe that this showed me to be a leader, and that I had a generous spirit... and that I was paying for the privilege of finding a wonderful future wife. However, those are totally unrealistic notions. Most women want a man to pay simply because it makes her feel special, pampered, and cherished. A good amount simply don't want to be invested in dates like that because it would signify equal effort in the courting process. I think you have to have been married and divorced to truly understand why this is stupid. Back in the 1950's a man put tons of effort into the courting because women put tons of effort into making a marriage last. That isn't true today. The divorce rate is so high it's ridiculous. They post it at around 50%, but in fact the chances of a marriage lasting over 40 years is just about 20% and rapidly decreasing as new generations age. At best a man is looking for his first ex wife... or the woman he will pay child support and alimony to for 10-16 years. Women understand these facts just as men do. So, what traits define a woman who demands payment vs. a woman who accepts paying for herself? In my experience women who demand that a man pay tend to share common traits. They are usually women who expect men to adhere to traditional gender roles. This is something I don't mind since I hold myself to this standard... the issue is that more often than not these women do not want to similarly be held to any female gender standard that is inconvenient. I've also found it very common that women who hold this belief have low self esteem, are more selfish than average, and tend to overly focused on material things. Now... other guys may have different experiences in this... and for sure not all of my dates have had these issues, but I see these characteristics as a strong trend. Additionally, I hear a lot of things like "whoever invites should pay." That is a long standing tradition in non-romantic settings. In a romantic setting it's pretty much a cop-out for women who don't want to pay, because it isn't that often a woman asks out a man, and those type of thinkers certainly never will. Inviter pays is traditionally used among friends and family. Rarely if ever do I invite a stranger to dine with me. It's 99% of the time someone I already know and expect to see again. Someone who will invite me later, or who I am guaranteed to have a good time with. When someone invites me, I feel indebted, and will go out of my way to be respectful to that person, to make sure he/she has a great time and to invite him/her out again in the near future. In the dating realm I have experienced very, very little of this. Otherwise after paying for a first date it would be rare to experience a woman flaking on the second date, or never responding again to a contact attempt. That type of behavior is extremely common, and also shows no appreciation to a man who just paid for a date. Don't get me wrong... I definitely understand why a woman would want a man to pay for her on an emotional level... and I myself really like the idea of paying for a lady. However, doesn't that mean I should also hold women to a high standard of behavior on a date? Just my thoughts.
musemaj111 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) ... Women have choices. Men have responsibilities. Women expect. Men provide. Women take. Men give. Women say "How about me?". Men say "How about you?". Im done being angry at the world. I have just accepted the fact that men are simply the better, the nobler sex. And I think you would be at peace too the sooner you accept that. Edited January 12, 2011 by musemaj111
denise_xo Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Why even bother offering when you dont intend to pay? Thats just fake. I agree with you in principle, but the thing is that a lot of men here on LS have expressed that this is how they like it - they want the woman to offer, and for them to reject it and pay. So it easily becomes a bit of a no win situation. I come from a culture where the norm is to go dutch. I like it that way.
musemaj111 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I agree with you in principle, but the thing is that a lot of men here on LS have expressed that this is how they like it - they want the woman to offer, and for them to reject it and pay. So it easily becomes a bit of a no win situation. Because men assume that when women offer, they actually genuinely want to share the 'burden' of cost of the date and that is touching for men. But sadly in reality its a mistaken assumption. I come from a culture where the norm is to go dutch. You promise? What if I moved to Canada and it turned out Canadian women werent as generous as you said? :p:p
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