skywriter Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 ...and stop shifting the blame towards other people. I've been reading all over these boards lately. Something that keeps standing out to me is, the lack of accountibility for ones own choices. All of a sudden the Om/Ow, is a "scumbag". Why is that?
NoIDidn't Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 I'm assuming you are talking about a thread in the Infidelity section. The poster that called the OM a "scumbag" was not a party to an affair. There is no responsibility for them to accept. And the OP of that thread didn't necessarily call the OM a scumbag, except in their actions. Its not fair to judge the OP right now. The reality and gravity of her situation is yet to truly sink in to her. But I agree, in general, these threads are FULL of people in affairs refusing to accept responsibility for their part in betraying and HELPING to betray people and families.
YellowShark Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 ...and stop shifting the blame towards other people. I've been reading all over these boards lately. Something that keeps standing out to me is, the lack of accountibility for ones own choices. All of a sudden the Om/Ow, is a "scumbag". Why is that? The WS is 100% responsible for their infidelity. No questions there. But the OM/OW is the other part of that infidelity equation. There can't be any question about that. It takes two to tango! Yet sometimes the WS lies to the OM/OW about their marital situation... which DOES happen often. I've read it here on LS many many times. So the OM/OW isn't entering into a partnership with a married person as far as they know. So I can absolutely cut them some slack there. But when the OM/OW *knows* the WS is married they are a willing participant in an act of adultery. Each person is entering into a partnership at the expense of a BS - (and family) - somewhere. So in the eyes of many a BS, the OM/OW is a scumbag too.
desertIslandCactus Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 It goes both directions. How many ways can the OW manage to say that she isn't getting her way because the BS is controlling, head in the sand, intimidating, needful. It's like, take your own responsibility for great difficulty in trying to break up a marriage.
BB07 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 It's like, take your own responsibility for great difficulty in trying to break up a marriage. The above............this is the thing, most people who get themselves into affairs as the AP, they think that it's already broken. You know......the excuses, he/she wouldn't be interested in me if the marriage was good, the mm/mw told me the marriage is bad, we have this incredible connection, etc. Of course most people delude themselves into buying into it, but buying into it makes it more palatable. It's more often a combo of what they have been told and/or what they assume and also what they want to believe. It's one little delusion and then another and then another. We delude ourselves to appease the guilt. I think it's the rare OW/OM who intentionally plows her way into someone's marriage and says, hey this is gonna be mine. Of course it does happen, but the other scenario is more common.
Spark1111 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 The above............this is the thing, most people who get themselves into affairs as the AP, they think that it's already broken. You know......the excuses, he/she wouldn't be interested in me if the marriage was good, the mm/mw told me the marriage is bad, we have this incredible connection, etc. Of course most people delude themselves into buying into it, but buying into it makes it more palatable. It's more often a combo of what they have been told and/or what they assume and also what they want to believe. It's one little delusion and then another and then another. We delude ourselves to appease the guilt. I think it's the rare OW/OM who intentionally plows her way into someone's marriage and says, hey this is gonna be mine. Of course it does happen, but the other scenario is more common. So true BB....but as these forums attest to over and over and over again, the marriage is NOT over until the fat, divorce judge sings.... That's why the only proper response to a person of the opposite sex who begins to malign their marriage or spouse is, "I know a good marriage counselor. Would you like his/her card?" Because the person who does disparage the marriage to another is signalling two things: I am needy and vulnerable....and.... I might be available for you. If nothing else, it shows they have extremely weak relational boundaries and will not be a good partner if you two have a relationship. It also demonstrates how willing they are to blame another (the spouse) for issues both people should be working hard to resolve. It also speaks volumes to how they will someday disparage you if and when they return to the marriage. All of those character traits were exhibited the very first time they spoke of their unfulfilled needs by their SO to a member of the opposite sex. Isn't that clear to everyone? If past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior, I am often surprised by how many OW/OM are stunned to be thrown under the bus. Not emotionally, because of course that pain is devastating. But logically, when you go back and remember the early conversations, the ones that signalled they were unhappy and would you be interested in me?
Spark1111 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 ...and stop shifting the blame towards other people. I've been reading all over these boards lately. Something that keeps standing out to me is, the lack of accountibility for ones own choices. All of a sudden the Om/Ow, is a "scumbag". Why is that? Could not agree more skywriter! It is no different than the spouse being cold, distant, uncaring and frigid.
Author skywriter Posted January 11, 2011 Author Posted January 11, 2011 Hi Guys, Thanks for the replies, I appreciate everyones opinions. Sorry for not being more attentive to a thread that I started, but, the icey/snowy weather has gotten me a bit preoccupied. In my A, I do intend to accept my responibility for my part. I was very ignorant, in that, I really didn't believe, I was capable of taking it as far as we did. Once we stepped over the boundaries, it made it easier to repeat, somehow. anyway...it has been a huge learning experience for me.
carhill Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 That's why the only proper response to a person of the opposite sex who begins to malign their marriage or spouse is, "I know a good marriage counselor. Would you like his/her card?" Yep, our MC was great and I have a bunch of his cards. I've actually done this (suggest MC) twice since splitting up with my exW. MW's seem to be drawn to me, not for sex but for emotional intimacy, which is just as big a betrayal to the M as sex, IMO. Now I remain detached, like a therapist, and recommend tools I learned in MC to reconnect with their spouse, as well as referral. Keep that distance. So far, it's working well. That kind of responsibility I can accept and feel good about. I did the 'other' for many years, so have an excellent point of comparison. So far, the tally is one 'working on it' and one 'divorcing', so YMMV.
Spark1111 Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Yep, our MC was great and I have a bunch of his cards. I've actually done this (suggest MC) twice since splitting up with my exW. MW's seem to be drawn to me, not for sex but for emotional intimacy, which is just as big a betrayal to the M as sex, IMO. Now I remain detached, like a therapist, and recommend tools I learned in MC to reconnect with their spouse, as well as referral. Keep that distance. So far, it's working well. That kind of responsibility I can accept and feel good about. I did the 'other' for many years, so have an excellent point of comparison. So far, the tally is one 'working on it' and one 'divorcing', so YMMV. Good for you Carhill! Some people have very weak boundaries and complaining about the marriage and the spouse is actually "trawling the waters" to see if they can find someone with equally weak boundaries to take the bait. I don't believe it is intentional, I just know it when I feel it. I have been blessed with strong boundaries. Others may not be as lucky!
herenow Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 I agree 100% that everyone should accept responsibility for their own actions. So, on that note, let's stop blaming the kids, money, the bitter BW, etc for these MM not leaving their marriages, and accept that they don't leave because they don't want to.
Author skywriter Posted January 12, 2011 Author Posted January 12, 2011 That's right herenow, if you want out, get out. Stop making excuses for wanting your cake and eating it too.
pureinheart Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Hi SW, It's interesting. I was the only one in my equation that took responsibility. The M was bad. They D. Carhill, let's face it...your one of the good guys:) (I always love reading your replies).
pureinheart Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Yep, our MC was great and I have a bunch of his cards. I've actually done this (suggest MC) twice since splitting up with my exW. MW's seem to be drawn to me, not for sex but for emotional intimacy, which is just as big a betrayal to the M as sex, IMO. Now I remain detached, like a therapist, and recommend tools I learned in MC to reconnect with their spouse, as well as referral. Keep that distance. So far, it's working well. That kind of responsibility I can accept and feel good about. I did the 'other' for many years, so have an excellent point of comparison. So far, the tally is one 'working on it' and one 'divorcing', so YMMV. In bold CH...thank you. My cousin and I used to crack up, and call ourselves "weirdo attracters" because of all of the screwed up R we've been in. I was really starting to trip after a reply I made in another thread...so your statement in bold helped snap me back...I do have to be careful because my personality attracts a lot of people. You be careful CH also....k...
carhill Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I'm fortunate. Between MC and the excellent example my exW provided with emotional detachment, I'm now far better able to appear to care without really caring, much like a therapist presents. I dont' give up a part of my personality I like, which is care and compassion, but exercise it without the emotional attachment. Caring 'less' emotionally, which is not to say 'uncaring', but a healthier level than prior. I've had some real opportunities in the last couple months to test this, and find it feels far healthier than at any time in the past. Sometimes adversity and poor choices foster growth. Key within that dynamic is taking responsibility for the poor choices and the hurt they caused. Such is not everyone's path, but it is one I'm glad I walked. The cool thing is, overwhelmgingly, the women I attract (emotionally) know I'm wrong for them so nothing ever happens. It all works out. What remains is meeting someone with a compatible emotional and attraction style *and* who's not attached to someone else
pureinheart Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I'm fortunate. Between MC and the excellent example my exW provided with emotional detachment, I'm now far better able to appear to care without really caring, much like a therapist presents. I dont' give up a part of my personality I like, which is care and compassion, but exercise it without the emotional attachment. Caring 'less' emotionally, which is not to say 'uncaring', but a healthier level than prior. I've had some real opportunities in the last couple months to test this, and find it feels far healthier than at any time in the past. Sometimes adversity and poor choices foster growth. Key within that dynamic is taking responsibility for the poor choices and the hurt they caused. Such is not everyone's path, but it is one I'm glad I walked. The cool thing is, overwhelmgingly, the women I attract (emotionally) know I'm wrong for them so nothing ever happens. It all works out. What remains is meeting someone with a compatible emotional and attraction style *and* who's not attached to someone else Where I live, A's aren't that big of a deal (at least they weren't when I was growing up and my worplace). I on the other hand was very weird about them...it just wasn't my cup of tea. I didn't care if other people had them, although the need to be the "one and only" always took a front seat. I have an idea of how the A started, although am still a bit perplexed as to how and the real whys of how I got there. I have always avoided married men (and those attached) like the plague even if I was married, because priddy much, in my neck of the woods, they didn't care...so like you have a guard and game face. I've learned not to be too friendly. My personal responsibility as yours and many others is never allowing that in my life again. It just doesn't work for me, so I can completely relate to the bolded:)
carhill Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I'm fortunate. Between MC and the excellent example my exW provided with emotional detachment, I'm now far better able to appear to care without really caring, much like a therapist presents. I dont' give up a part of my personality I like, which is care and compassion, but exercise it without the emotional attachment. Caring 'less' emotionally, which is not to say 'uncaring', but a healthier level than prior. I've had some real opportunities in the last couple months to test this, and find it feels far healthier than at any time in the past. Sometimes adversity and poor choices foster growth. Key within that dynamic is taking responsibility for the poor choices and the hurt they caused. Such is not everyone's path, but it is one I'm glad I walked. The cool thing is, overwhelmgingly, the women I attract (emotionally) know I'm wrong for them so nothing ever happens. It all works out. What remains is meeting someone with a compatible emotional and attraction style *and* who's not attached to someone else
Author skywriter Posted January 12, 2011 Author Posted January 12, 2011 Carhill and PIH, thanks for the great replies. I can relate to what you write. PIH, I've often said I am a weirdo attracter as well. I think I said," weirdo magnet", though. I a nurturing/caregiver type by nature. Just a gift, if you wanna call it that. Ugh! JUst love, love! (yea, whatever)
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