desertIslandCactus Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 I read on another thread in this forum, that love can never be a negative emotion. I love sugar. Sugar has been proven to be bad for you. If one uses the word 'love' to dismiss the destruction that an affair causes, is this realistic? Would the so-called 'love' in the affair, be primarily self indulgent?
BB07 Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Our culture teaches us that romantic love is the be all, end all and something that everyone deserves and aspires to. We tend to think that love should conquer all and that the price is never too great. Idealized and harmful........it certainly can be when "in the name of love" is used to absolve responsibility and make it all OK.
BenThereDunThat Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 I think we throw the word love around too casually when it comes to romantic relationships. Real, true love is sharing a life together. The ups and downs, standing by each other, fights, make-ups, but remaining together. And out in the open. I think slapping the label 'love' on an affair is self-indulgent to an extent. You may really think you are in love, but the fact that it has an ending or is in secret, automatically makes it not real love. At least as far as I believe the true definition of love to be.
woinlove Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 I read on another thread in this forum, that love can never be a negative emotion. I love sugar. Sugar has been proven to be bad for you. If one uses the word 'love' to dismiss the destruction that an affair causes, is this realistic? Would the so-called 'love' in the affair, be primarily self indulgent? Of course love can be a negative emotion. Not all people are capable of loving in the same way and some people actually cause a lot of damage with what they call love. A few even end up in prison because of it - for example a teacher falling in love with a minor student. Among adults, the law typically has nothing to say (beyond divorce laws, harassment, etc.) but the havoc can be almost as great in some cases as a high school teacher and his/her student. Some people are rather immature in connection to attraction, lust, love, romance and such and what they want, they want now, and they are not interested in considering the effect it may have on others, even ultimately on the object of their affection. They can wreak a lot of havoc through needy and obsessive love, which is ultimately all about them. Now, if you chose to define love as love which wants only the best for another, which watches out for their interests, now and into the future, then I don't think that can be negative. But that kind of love would neither want to deceive the person not want to put them in the position to deceive others.
bentnotbroken Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Our culture teaches us that romantic love is the be all, end all and something that everyone deserves and aspires to. We tend to think that love should conquer all and that the price is never too great. Idealized and harmful........it certainly can be when "in the name of love" is used to absolve responsibility and make it all OK. Our culture starts the indoctrination early....Cinderella, Snow White, soap operas, teen books. Love is idealized to the point of being dismissive of others. I like your post....so true.
BB07 Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Our culture starts the indoctrination early....Cinderella, Snow White, soap operas, teen books. Love is idealized to the point of being dismissive of others. I like your post....so true. You are right......it does start early, way too early. We are taught to expect something and want something that isn't real. Thinking of children and how most of us love our children. To me that is an example of the most pure, honest, unselfish, profound love that we as humans can experience. I have had the joy of experiencing that kind of love for my daughters and now my granddaughter.
East7 Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Well, the Topic is pretty philosophical, I would say : For the sake of love we let ourselves involved in affairs, for the sake of love we accept to share someone, for the sake of love we sell our heart too cheap.. Did I love my xMW? I still think of her every single day...I don't know if it was love, infatuation, passion, addiction...but she would make me feel like walking on the clouds. Still it was not the kind of love I wanted. I would "buy" some happy moments in exchange of lots of sadness, humiliation to know her with a H, missing her (long-distance A), it was like living in a prison for loving an unavailable woman. Despite all, I don't regret having loved her, I'm unable to hate her. So is love a negative emotion ? I don't think so. It is the context (unrequited love or affair) in which it happens that is negative and destructive.
MorningCoffee Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Well, the Topic is pretty philosophical, I would say : For the sake of love we let ourselves involved in affairs, for the sake of love we accept to share someone, for the sake of love we sell our heart too cheap.. Did I love my xMW? I still think of her every single day...I don't know if it was love, infatuation, passion, addiction...but she would make me feel like walking on the clouds. Still it was not the kind of love I wanted. I would "buy" some happy moments in exchange of lots of sadness, humiliation to know her with a H, missing her (long-distance A), it was like living in a prison for loving an unavailable woman. Despite all, I don't regret having loved her, I'm unable to hate her. So is love a negative emotion ? I don't think so. It is the context (unrequited love or affair) in which it happens that is negative and destructive. I agree with so much of this. Love, like other emotions, is neither positive nor negative in and of itself. The context, who the people are, and all the rest, are what makes love either positive or negative. East, I feel much the same for my ex-AP/MW as you do for yours. Still, have learned, am learning, am moving on. Simple, but not easy.
NoIDidn't Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 I think we throw the word love around too casually when it comes to romantic relationships. Real, true love is sharing a life together. The ups and downs, standing by each other, fights, make-ups, but remaining together. And out in the open. I think slapping the label 'love' on an affair is self-indulgent to an extent. You may really think you are in love, but the fact that it has an ending or is in secret, automatically makes it not real love. At least as far as I believe the true definition of love to be. I really agree with the bolded. I disagree with the OP comparing the love between people to her "love" of sugar though. Apples and oranges. When I think of Love, the definition of it, I'm always led back to the Bible, 1 Corinthians 13. And while those in an affair can feel love, it just doesn't fit this definition. Love in an affair simply can't reach my standard for love. Love doesn't boast, its not arrogant, and it doesn't dishonor others. Love protects those under its care. It perseveres when times get rough (and this is regarding the married person cheating because they are impatient with the changes they want in their marriage/spouse). Love is patient. Something APs often are not. Telling the W/H out of spite, or to get what one wants, isn't love, IMO. Protecting yourself from the consequences of an affair, isn't love, IMO. Love, real love, doesn't have the crazy ups and downs of an affair. My point? Love as spoken of in this forum frequently doesn't meet the definition of Love, IMO. Just because a person calls it "love", doesn't make it so. As the bolded quote states, love is thrown around far too casually. Intensity of feelings is NOT a measure of "love".
BenThereDunThat Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 I really agree with the bolded. I disagree with the OP comparing the love between people to her "love" of sugar though. Apples and oranges. When I think of Love, the definition of it, I'm always led back to the Bible, 1 Corinthians 13. And while those in an affair can feel love, it just doesn't fit this definition. Love in an affair simply can't reach my standard for love. Love doesn't boast, its not arrogant, and it doesn't dishonor others. Love protects those under its care. It perseveres when times get rough (and this is regarding the married person cheating because they are impatient with the changes they want in their marriage/spouse). Love is patient. Something APs often are not. Telling the W/H out of spite, or to get what one wants, isn't love, IMO. Protecting yourself from the consequences of an affair, isn't love, IMO. Love, real love, doesn't have the crazy ups and downs of an affair. My point? Love as spoken of in this forum frequently doesn't meet the definition of Love, IMO. Just because a person calls it "love", doesn't make it so. As the bolded quote states, love is thrown around far too casually. Intensity of feelings is NOT a measure of "love". Very well put. That's the crux of it exactly.
Author desertIslandCactus Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 Our culture teaches us that romantic love is the be all, end all and something that everyone deserves and aspires to. We tend to think that love should conquer all and that the price is never too great. Idealized and harmful........it certainly can be when "in the name of love" is used to absolve responsibility and make it all OK. I agree BB.
Author desertIslandCactus Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 I think we throw the word love around too casually when it comes to romantic relationships. Real, true love is sharing a life together. The ups and downs, standing by each other, fights, make-ups, but remaining together. And out in the open. I think slapping the label 'love' on an affair is self-indulgent to an extent. You may really think you are in love, but the fact that it has an ending or is in secret, automatically makes it not real love. At least as far as I believe the true definition of love to be. I agree Ben.
Author desertIslandCactus Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 Of course love can be a negative emotion. Not all people are capable of loving in the same way and some people actually cause a lot of damage with what they call love. A few even end up in prison because of it - for example a teacher falling in love with a minor student. Among adults, the law typically has nothing to say (beyond divorce laws, harassment, etc.) but the havoc can be almost as great in some cases as a high school teacher and his/her student. Some people are rather immature in connection to attraction, lust, love, romance and such and what they want, they want now, and they are not interested in considering the effect it may have on others, even ultimately on the object of their affection. They can wreak a lot of havoc through needy and obsessive love, which is ultimately all about them. Now, if you chose to define love as love which wants only the best for another, which watches out for their interests, now and into the future, then I don't think that can be negative. But that kind of love would neither want to deceive the person not want to put them in the position to deceive others. I agree woinlove.
Author desertIslandCactus Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 Our culture starts the indoctrination early....Cinderella, Snow White, soap operas, teen books. Love is idealized to the point of being dismissive of others. I like your post....so true. I agree ... .
Author desertIslandCactus Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 Well, the Topic is pretty philosophical, I would say : For the sake of love we let ourselves involved in affairs, for the sake of love we accept to share someone, for the sake of love we sell our heart too cheap.. Did I love my xMW? I still think of her every single day...I don't know if it was love, infatuation, passion, addiction...but she would make me feel like walking on the clouds. Still it was not the kind of love I wanted. I would "buy" some happy moments in exchange of lots of sadness, humiliation to know her with a H, missing her (long-distance A), it was like living in a prison for loving an unavailable woman. Despite all, I don't regret having loved her, I'm unable to hate her. So is love a negative emotion ? I don't think so. It is the context (unrequited love or affair) in which it happens that is negative and destructive. I agree East.
Author desertIslandCactus Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 I really agree with the bolded. I disagree with the OP comparing the love between people to her "love" of sugar though. Apples and oranges. When I think of Love, the definition of it, I'm always led back to the Bible, 1 Corinthians 13. And while those in an affair can feel love, it just doesn't fit this definition. Love in an affair simply can't reach my standard for love. Love doesn't boast, its not arrogant, and it doesn't dishonor others. Love protects those under its care. It perseveres when times get rough (and this is regarding the married person cheating because they are impatient with the changes they want in their marriage/spouse). Love is patient. Something APs often are not. Telling the W/H out of spite, or to get what one wants, isn't love, IMO. Protecting yourself from the consequences of an affair, isn't love, IMO. Love, real love, doesn't have the crazy ups and downs of an affair. My point? Love as spoken of in this forum frequently doesn't meet the definition of Love, IMO. Just because a person calls it "love", doesn't make it so. As the bolded quote states, love is thrown around far too casually. Intensity of feelings is NOT a measure of "love". This is It .. the above. Thank you NID. (and no, I couldn't love sugar - I like the taste of it, and it's as an addiction.)
East7 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 My point? Love as spoken of in this forum frequently doesn't meet the definition of Love, IMO. Just because a person calls it "love", doesn't make it so. As the bolded quote states, love is thrown around far too casually. Intensity of feelings is NOT a measure of "love". Just because an affair is an "impossible Love" it doesn't disqualify it from being Love. APs (almost) never break up because their love is dead, or because they loose interest on each-other but because it is impossible to build a normal relationship. Most of APs, if met under different circumstances (as single persons) would have build passionate relationships.
NoIDidn't Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Just because an affair is an "impossible Love" it doesn't disqualify it from being Love. APs (almost) never break up because their love is dead, or because they loose interest on each-other but because it is impossible to build a normal relationship. Most of APs, if met under different circumstances (as single persons) would have build passionate relationships. But building a "passionate relationship" still can't be concluded to be love. Its just intense feelings in many cases. I think if the circumstances were different, the Rs wouldn't have happened. The circumstances were what got the people into the position they were in (the affair, the vulnerabilities of the moment). Isn't it so interesting how many people DO meet when single and still don't "date" until its in an affair situation? So I don't think meeting when single would change a thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not addressing all areas where people act irresponsibly and claim love because I'm just addressing it as asked in this forum. I'm addressing the love issue as a whole, not based on one individual in the triangle. Its quite obvious that the individuals feel something, but almost all come to accept, if it ends without a commitment, that there was something off about this love. Doesn't mean that feelings weren't felt and that lessons weren't learned. But it doesn't make it love. I just don't believe that true love would put people in that position. Another thing, I'm not disqualifying it from becoming love either. Love is an action and an active decision. I know many who started in illicit-type relationships that meet my definition of love. And they would be quick to acknowledge that their understanding of love changed from when they felt it was okay to hurt for love, be it themselves or others.
SoMovinOn Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 One can love people. One cannot love things. An extreme like of sugar, or anything else, is not love. People want to be in love so bad, they will call just about any attraction to another person love. It rarely is. Love is giving. Giving without expecting anything back. Giving without keeping score of who gives more or more often. When two people are in love, it's awesome - each giving to the other so they both get what they need. In that respect, true love cannot be bad. True love would not be bad. Someone gave the example of a teacher "loving" a minor student as an example of how love can be bad. If the teacher was compelled to attempt to act on that love in an inappropriate manner, to have or attempt a physical relationship with the minor student... that ain't love. If the teacher truly loved the student, he/she would display that love in a positive manner - mentoring the student in their career, helping them excel in their education... by giving the student what they needed. That's what love is.
Author desertIslandCactus Posted January 12, 2011 Author Posted January 12, 2011 Definitions from Webster's: (1) Strong affection of another arising out of kinship or personal ties .. i.e. maternal love of a child. Attraction based on sexual desire: affection & tenderness felt by lovers. Affection based on admiration, benevolence or common interests i.e. love for old schoolmates, etc An assurance of affection. (2) Warm attachment, devotion or admiration i.e. love of the sea, etc (3) Object of attachment, devotion, or admiration i.e. love of baseball, etc A beloved person. Often used as a term of endearment. (4) Unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another i.e. Fatherly concern of God for humankind, brotherly concern of others, a person's adoration of God, etc. So there we have the broader definitions from the worldly dictionary .. but if one applied or attached themselves to people, things without other more responsible thoughts, they get into trouble. Aside from NID's earlier post from 1Corinthians 13:4, there is the Commandments: Thou shalt not steal; Thou shalt not covet; Thou shalt not commit adultery; and other Commandments that also apply. Love can be a 'negative emotion' if used improperly - or to steal, covet, destroy, a false God, etc.
Heather1 Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I think it's a brain chemistry reaction, and it's as real as stubbing your toe. You feel it at the time, and the circumstances make the future together almost impossible. At the time it's happening, it's "love." I'll always love OM. I think A's are more about unrequited love, once reality sets in. I think if OM & I met when we were single, we would have made a great match. It seems that when BS post on these boards they're discounting that we are actually in a lot of pain & feel like crap about what's happening. The hardest part is that we're forced to fall out of love, because it's wrong. That's why I've never questioned OM about his decision to stop.
Author desertIslandCactus Posted January 12, 2011 Author Posted January 12, 2011 I think it's a brain chemistry reaction, and it's as real as stubbing your toe. You feel it at the time, and the circumstances make the future together almost impossible. At the time it's happening, it's "love." I'll always love OM. I think A's are more about unrequited love, once reality sets in. I think if OM & I met when we were single, we would have made a great match. It seems that when BS post on these boards they're discounting that we are actually in a lot of pain & feel like crap about what's happening. The hardest part is that we're forced to fall out of love, because it's wrong. That's why I've never questioned OM about his decision to stop. It is difficult. I would think it would be like other things.. The deeper you get in .. the more difficult to get out.
Spices Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Came aggress this link on stumble & it made me think about this thread. http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2WoGLz/members.shaw.ca/yofrizb/ Both are natural. Love should be positive; Its fear that isn't positive. Fear is what stops us. Love is what pushes us. I guess in retrospect you could view fear as a positive thing & love as a negative.
shadowofman Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 I think love can be negative when buttressed with fear and anxiety. The mother that loves her child so much she segregates her from the world. The partner that loves their SO so much that they can't handle their possessiveness.
pureinheart Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 You know Desert, there is a desire to respond to your thread in some sort of intelligent manor ...I can't and really don't know what love is. When putting what I think love is next to my Creator, I really don't have a clue, and feel very lost.
Recommended Posts