I'm A Catch (My Dating "Manifesto")

[Star Gazer]

Having trouble connecting with the opposite sex?

 

He's not having trouble connecting in the way you think. He doesn't desire a connection with a woman beyond his penis connecting to her vagina/mouth/anus.

[BobSacamento]

This has turned into a haters convention.

[catgotyourtongue]

Btw, *this* is the type of mentality I was targeting in my 'men who bitch' thread.

 

I'm so great, why aren't I getting free sex whenever I want it?

 

BTW I was going to help OP improve his online dating profile privately.

 

But then I looked at his past posts and saw that he is really trying to trick girls into having casual sex. I didn't want any part in that.

 

So OP, that's why I didn't respond to your PMs

 

Cat, I am getting the idea that you are the self appointed female defender of any and all male posters here on LS. That is nice of you. I have to say it's NOT "bully mentality," however, if a lot of thinking, empathetic, and even "overly sensitive" people (as you consider yourself to be) are offended by a person who holds this kind of dehumanizing view of OTHER HUMAN BEINGS:

 

 

Really? That is okay with you?

 

Most have not taken issue with his high opinion of himself. The problems have been with his expression of being ENTITLED to USE other people however he wishes because of these attributes of which he is so proud.

 

It's not bully mentality. It's more like a group of people with some social mores in common.

 

I just spent half hr on reply, and deleted it by mistake. Gosh I hate that. DON'T AT all condone his behavior, agree that he sees women and objects and subservient. I actually posted an inital reply to him very early on saying as much, lord knows where it is. I truly did type a long response and it did not send, I keep thinking I am logged in and am not, and loose the post. Same thing I did here half hr ago. ARGGH. I sent that way before the following one. So I see how I come off as you say, but it is not how I feel. I thought my earlier post was there stating clearly I did agree...and a lot more.

 

I was not agreeing with what he does, at all. So nope, a definite nope, not ok with dehumanizing. I see it done on here all the time, to men and women and never think it is okay, not ever.

 

Often I do have a similar opinion as other women on many important male threads, where I would never support or defend that MALE poster. It is just on those, usually there are so many other people addressing just what I feel, I dont repeat it. So I see where I am coming off one way, will look into that and be more mindful. I post a lot to women in support of women, but that does not get the attention that my posts supporting "some" men do. And often it is to simply say "I see their point" or "dont be so harsh" not to say i agree. I am too sensitive so I see many things as harsh. Then somehow I offend a lot of people myself, sucks. It's not my intent, really. This is why I suck at dating, working through it really.

 

I did not and do not support this persons actions, I was simply saying he has a right to think he is a catch, if thats what he thinks about himself. My points were abt something else, thats all. I find dehumanizing horrific and dont think women are objects to aquire and control, NOT at all. I made a point, that came out wrong, as usual. Thats all. My bad.

 

I will practice more mindfulness and think before I speak as I agree, I can come off as defender of all men, but thats not the reality, at all. Believe me. You have no idea. I support the heck out of women, check out many of my posts....:-)

 

thanks for pointing some things out, it helps. I will look into it and see where I land...

[dispatch3d]

Most have not taken issue with his high opinion of himself. The problems have been with his expression of being ENTITLED to USE other people however he wishes because of these attributes of which he is so proud.

 

It's not bully mentality. It's more like a group of people with some social mores in common.

 

I don't mind you disagreeing with his views of women. Fine and dandy. I just don't approve of you making everything a personal attack. Much like this post is in relation to catgotyourtongue. She's labelled a "defender of all men" or something. Blah.

 

He states in his op that he wants to dictate where his relationship stage is at. In reality, 90% of hot women could have that power in any relationship they enter if they so chose. Most guys are more than happy to finally get with a really hot girlfriend, that they would go along with almost anything the girl says. Well, as far as 'relationship status' is concerned. They would for sure agree to casual sex rather than a ltr just to get the casual sex. Not because this is "what guys want" but because most guys have no power.

 

I don't even really grasp why having that much power is offensive? I guess you take his goals as him attempting to "use" women, or some selfish ideal of him screwing as many hot girls as possible. I mean, hot girls keep score in unviersity all the time. Some ONLY sleep with university hockey players, rugby players, whatever just for status/recognition/to fuel their ego. If a women took his point of view I wouldn't be offended. In fact I know women who take his approach - I am the **** and I sleep with whatever guy is lucky enough to get me. For me personally it's a turn off, and I have a hard time seeing where people come from with selfishness. However, selfish people offend a ton of people. Whereas giving people eventually get much much farther ahead. In the end, I'm never that worried that these selfish people will get exactly what they want, since they go about getting things in completely the wrong matter. Furthermore, the people i know who are the most successful are rarely the most selfish.

[Mme. Chaucer]

dispatch3d;

 

I am not a fan of selfishness, but I don't even care if the OP is selfish. I just care that he has not acknowledged the human-ness of women - his potential targeted sex partners - one time in any of his threads. He only sees women as things that can give him something he wants, if only he can find the formula.

 

I would be equally skeeved by similar posts from women. I have, in fact, taken exception more than once to the posts from women that are along the lines of "why isn't he texting/ calling / begging to be with me constantly now that he's seen how hot I am in my online dating profile?" At least, in those cases, the woman is feeling interested in the guy. The OP has shown no interest in any woman in any of his posts.

[northern_sky]

I just spent half hr on reply, and deleted it by mistake. Gosh I hate that. DON'T AT all condone his behavior, agree that he sees women and objects and subservient. I actually posted an inital reply to him very early on saying as much, lord knows where it is. I truly did type a long response and it did not send, I keep thinking I am logged in and am not, and loose the post. Same thing I did here half hr ago. ARGGH. I sent that way before the following one. So I see how I come off as you say, but it is not how I feel. I thought my earlier post was there stating clearly I did agree...and a lot more.

 

I was not agreeing with what he does, at all. So nope, a definite nope, not ok with dehumanizing. I see it done on here all the time, to men and women and never think it is okay, not ever.

 

Often I do have a similar opinion as other women on many important male threads, where I would never support or defend that MALE poster. It is just on those, usually there are so many other people addressing just what I feel, I dont repeat it. So I see where I am coming off one way, will look into that and be more mindful. I post a lot to women in support of women, but that does not get the attention that my posts supporting "some" men do. And often it is to simply say "I see their point" or "dont be so harsh" not to say i agree. I am too sensitive so I see many things as harsh. Then somehow I offend a lot of people myself, sucks. It's not my intent, really. This is why I suck at dating, working through it really.

 

I did not and do not support this persons actions, I was simply saying he has a right to think he is a catch, if thats what he thinks about himself. My points were abt something else, thats all. I find dehumanizing horrific and dont think women are objects to aquire and control, NOT at all. I made a point, that came out wrong, as usual. Thats all. My bad.

 

I will practice more mindfulness and think before I speak as I agree, I can come off as defender of all men, but thats not the reality, at all. Believe me. You have no idea. I support the heck out of women, check out many of my posts....:-)

 

thanks for pointing some things out, it helps. I will look into it and see where I land...

 

Cat, and I truly don't intend this in a mean-spirited way, but I get the vibe you have some serious identity issues going on. I don't even know you, and I can pick that up from your posts on this board. My point is your arguments usually seem more based in that identity search, than in reason. In other words, I feel like you try too hard, and you'd be more clear-headed if you relaxed the identity stuff a bit. Just something to consider. And I apologize for the temp TJ.

[tami-chan]

So OP, simply said, you want a woman who recognizes who and what you are( a "good catch") but also accepts what you want in a "relationship" (or non-relationship relationship) AND have sex with you? Fair enough. I do not understand why some people have a problem with that. Maybe someday you will get to a point in your life where you'd want a serious relationship. In the meantime, keep being honest about what you really want. Unfortunately, I do not have an advise to you on how to convey that message to the opposite sex-aside from being upfront about it-ie. telling them in no uncertain terms you are only interested in sex. Many women ( as you can tell by the many posts here on LS), sleep with the men they meet despite knowing his level of interest in the hope of changing his mind. So, good luck!

[catgotyourtongue]

Cat, and I truly don't intend this in a mean-spirited way, but I get the vibe you have some serious identity issues going on. I don't even know you, and I can pick that up from your posts on this board. My point is your arguments usually seem more based in that identity search, than in reason. In other words, I feel like you try too hard, and you'd be more clear-headed if you relaxed the identity stuff a bit. Just something to consider. And I apologize for the temp TJ.

 

Thanks for your insight. Did not seem mean spiritied, thanks for wording it softly. It was just direct, and I need to deal with directness. It's cool. Serious identity issues, hmmm, I certainly have -some [a lot of back and fortha] and yup, confused about my thoughts on things. In the bigger picture, I can see a two sided coin, and am not black and whiter thinker, and it leads to a lot of complex thoughts and mind changes in what I think/feel. My "crises" is in the "dating" and "relationship" world I can't find a balance between strong and soft, angry, sad, happy, joy, etc because I vascilate often between two, and the extremes are extremes. Whole reason I come to a place like this, to learn, see, and then when I hear opinions, etc on my "issues" and "behavior" it gives me food for thought. I like to see myself as open minded to other points, I think it makes life more rich, but yes perhaps I have some identity issues. I guess there are worse things to have, but yup, you nailed, I struggle with identity sometimes...lol.

 

What I do find fascinating on here N-Sky is how so many people don't waver from their identity/or are way more able to make a point, back it up, stay true and strong to it. I watch you and others, and even though I don't agree all the time, I see strong, valid argments that support your basic core, or who you are and I wish i had that. Since I feel many things, I might agree with one thing and not with another, and it's not fluid.

 

What coming here has shown me cleary is excatly this. I wish, big time, I had more of a solid identity. I also have no issue showing my issues and try not to build a facade to pretend I am all together all the time. I am just me. What you see is what you get, both sides, many sides and to a degree I love that about myself too. I see a lot of arrogance and selfishness in this world, and I hate it, but struggle with it a lot, so I try to play/learn/see many sided to things, leading to "waffling" in what i think.

 

With my friends, life, job etc, passion etc, I have a strong identity, solid as heck and unwaivering in who and what I am. It's with the gender dating thing, in which I have identity issues and it has always caused issues for me.

 

Thanks Northern, you made an observation and I appreciate it, and it was correct. Was thinkin about this over night, and telling myself I need to really work on this for myself, and others. I am not clear in my writing or thinking many times, and I see others who are at it amazes me...

 

anyway, thanks for input..

[sweetjasmine]

He only sees women as things that can give him something he wants, if only he can find the formula.

 

This is exactly it, and what he wrote in this thread basically said that he doesn't care what other people want. It doesn't matter to him that the other person has thoughts, desires, and feelings different from his own. He wants them to just ignore all that and give him what he wants because he deserves it because he looks nice, dresses well, gets good grades, and reads certain publications. Seriously, that doesn't strike people as ridiculous?

 

I guess you take his goals as him attempting to "use" women, or some selfish ideal of him screwing as many hot girls as possible.

 

No, I take his means of doing it and his attitude as him attempting to use women. What else do you call lying to someone about your intentions so you can stick your dick in them?

 

I mean, hot girls keep score in unviersity all the time. Some ONLY sleep with university hockey players, rugby players, whatever just for status/recognition/to fuel their ego.

 

And if a woman came on here and said, "I demand to sleep with any university athlete I want just because I'm so super fantastic, and I don't care if he doesn't want to. He needs to want what I want because I'm better than him," I'd find that disturbing, too.

 

If a women took his point of view I wouldn't be offended.

 

I'll take your word for it, but generally speaking, this is all hilarious in light of all the whining on LS from a handful of people about how entitled American women are and how much better Third World women are.

 

I mean, picture a thread where a woman said, "I want this guy to buy me a house because I'm an attorney at the best firm in New York City and I look like X, Y, Z and I can cook and I read the following publications every day: .... He doesn't want to do it, but I think he should change his mind because I deserve it and am entitled to whatever I want." What response do you think that'd get?

[zengirl]

He states in his op that he wants to dictate where his relationship stage is at. In reality, 90% of hot women could have that power in any relationship they enter if they so chose. Most guys are more than happy to finally get with a really hot girlfriend, that they would go along with almost anything the girl says. Well, as far as 'relationship status' is concerned. They would for sure agree to casual sex rather than a ltr just to get the casual sex. Not because this is "what guys want" but because most guys have no power.

 

I would find it disheartening if a woman wanted a man to "submit" to her view of a relationship as well. If men feel that they are being asked to submit to a relationship they don't agree with, and they do it anyway, that's kind of their problem. Don't do something that bothers you or date anyone who makes you feel that way, especially as, in your case, many of those girls may not be consciously realizing the man feels that way.

 

This guy is consciously saying he wants to get women to submit to what he wants and he thinks they should because he's all that and a bag of chips. Of course, they aren't, because he's being idiotic about it and he doesn't understand people, which is good because I don't really want men who objectify women and don't care about their thoughts and feelings being too good at landing said women, only to treat them as objects and discard them. (I'm not saying this is what all casual sex is, BTW. It's his attitude towards it.) That's even worse.

 

I don't even really grasp why having that much power is offensive?

 

Having it wouldn't be. Wanting it would be.

 

Wanting to have uneven power -- power over others -- in a relationship is wanting to objectify or demean the other person. (This is not the same as wanting to retain your own dignity, personal power, or self-respect, while being an active and giving partner.) That's unhealthy. It's not a gender thing. It's unhealthy in a man or in a woman.

 

I guess you take his goals as him attempting to "use" women, or some selfish ideal of him screwing as many hot girls as possible.

 

My first response to him, I was unclear what exactly he wanted. Even if he wanted a LTR, his attitude is both not productive and bothersome.

 

For me personally it's a turn off, and I have a hard time seeing where people come from with selfishness. However, selfish people offend a ton of people. Whereas giving people eventually get much much farther ahead. In the end, I'm never that worried that these selfish people will get exactly what they want, since they go about getting things in completely the wrong matter. Furthermore, the people i know who are the most successful are rarely the most selfish.

 

His selfishness doesn't offend me. Actually, I'm not even sure he 'offends' me, though I agree he objectifies and dehumanizes the women he wants to sleep with by this attitude. But I don't really care, because, as you say, he's unlikely to be successful.

 

If your point is the Thumper rule ("If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything at all"), well, it's not a bad point. It's not the way LS operates, and not the way I operate on LS. If I want to operate that way -- as I often do in the real world -- I'd just not read this board.

[dispatch3d]

jasmine,

 

There actually are threads and instances where american women act like this. I would say when people identify what they like about foreign women more than american women, that they probably are referring to general senses of entitlement.

 

Two that come to mind: There was a thread about a guy who was mad at this girl he was dating because she would continually hit him up for money. Like asking for 20 dollars of his money to go play blackjack. He later said he offered an expenses paid trip to vegas, but then complained when she was asking for more money.

 

Another example is a friend of mine was dating this girl, and he was also paying for her car insurance. Only because she asked, and she then cheated on him. He then eventually got back together with her despite the fact (1) she was using him for car insurance rental (2) she's a cheater.

 

Both are pretty good examples of commonday unequality in relationships. I agree it's the guys fault for allowing that sort of behaviour. I even know another guy who thought the girl was a bad person, more than he thought the guy was at fault for staying with her/making her think that behaviour is fine.

 

Zengirl,

 

I agree it's partly the guys fault for allowing that sort of behaviour. I think all guys have to allow a certain amount of princess-type behaviour though, just because it's so prevalent that to avoid it would mean noone is datable.

 

I prefer people speak their mind. I enjoy and encourage a different opinion than mine because those opinions are the ones that teach me the most. I don't approve of attacking a person though, and that is called abusive behaviour. Both of these things happen way more on the internet just as a nature of the medium, and I think that's the positive+negative attributes to chat forums online.

[zengirl]

Two that come to mind: There was a thread about a guy who was mad at this girl he was dating because she would continually hit him up for money. Like asking for 20 dollars of his money to go play blackjack. He later said he offered an expenses paid trip to vegas, but then complained when she was asking for more money.

 

That poster has a equation for "Cost per Lay." He gets what he puts out. Sure, the girl was behaving in a way I find supremely tacky, but those types can have each other.

 

Another example is a friend of mine was dating this girl, and he was also paying for her car insurance. Only because she asked, and she then cheated on him. He then eventually got back together with her despite the fact (1) she was using him for car insurance rental (2) she's a cheater.

 

Sounds like your friend has pretty low self-respect. But I've met some women who've paid deadbeat boyfriend/husband's rent, etc, even though they cheat. So this happens to both men and women who are lacking in a sense of self or self-respect. Plenty of women support jerk boyfriends.

 

Zengirl,

 

I agree it's partly the guys fault for allowing that sort of behaviour. I think all guys have to allow a certain amount of princess-type behaviour though, just because it's so prevalent that to avoid it would mean noone is datable.

 

You need to meet more women. No woman I know would ask, or even allow, a man to pay for her car insurance (unless they were married/living together, but then funds are joint, and we're dealing with different situations, obviously). This is silly.

 

Most relationships I see -- the ones that work -- have a push and pull, a give and give, really, more than a give and take. Both people put in and both people enjoy the fruits of the relationship. You make dating way to adversarial.

 

I prefer people speak their mind. I enjoy and encourage a different opinion than mine because those opinions are the ones that teach me the most. I don't approve of attacking a person though, and that is called abusive behaviour. Both of these things happen way more on the internet just as a nature of the medium, and I think that's the positive+negative attributes to chat forums online.

 

I don't think anyone abused the OP. Calling someone on their **** is not the same as "abusing" them. To me, at least.

[Goodstuff]

You know what you're missing? Money

[SmileFace]

You know what you're missing? Money

this :lmao::lmao:

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, let me try it:

 

I know and understand this may sound extreme to some readers. However, it's how I honestly feel inside, and my conviction is strong. I now I may sound "full of myself," but honestly, I believe every woman has at least some reason to feel "full of herself;" for accomplishments and hobbies and knowledge that set her above the rest, so I hope you can relate. I'm not looking for a debate; I'm looking for advice.

 

I've come believe I'm a catch. I'm only 23 and still in college, but I consider myself a pretty desirable woman for my age and my progress in life.

 

I consider myself pretty good looking. I'm not perfect or model quality, but I'm pretty slim and in shape, have symmetrical features, gigantic knockers, a perky bum, full pouty lips, consistent skin tone (minus a tiny patch of varicose veins between my eyebrows where a botox injection went astray)

 

I'm well dressed to the point of being above average but not so much as to appear like a Beverly Hills housewife or a First Lady. I habitually dress in well-fitting business-casual attire, for work or maybe jeggings and some wedgies for just going out.

 

Despite that, I have some "feminine" hobbies. I love getting Brazilian waxes and scrapbooking especially. And though I'm not a huge cosmetic surgery addict, I'm thinking of getting a tummy tuck in the spring.

 

I'm pretty educated. I study creative writing and I was an honor student in high school. I also consider myself pretty worldly. I've traveled to several countries around the world, for study-abroad, shopping or for fun, and I have a relatively solid understand of current events, international politics, fashion, economics, entertainment gossip and finance, just because that stuff interests me and I read the NYT, Shape, People, Economist, Atlantic, In Style, and Vanity Fair habitually. I listen to NPR and never miss a season of The Bachelor.

 

I truly believe that I'm a catch because of all of this. And because of that, I honestly, truly believe that I should not have to work or struggle to get guys. I believe that guys should have to work for my affection, and not the other way around. I believe that I shouldn't have dry spells. I believe that I should have my choice of fellows for and whatever type of relationship I feel is convenient for me at the time, and that I shouldn't have to compromise.

 

The problem is, how do I make young dudes my age see this? How do I make them realize that I am the catch? That they should want and work to be with me? That they should know its a PRIVILEGE to take me out to a five star restaraunt where they can sit across the table from me and admire the perfect arch of my eyebrows? That they should leap at an opportunity of spending an hour or two sitting near me as I get my mani and pedi? That they shouldn't feel ambivalent or flake, or just try to get into my lacy panties or any games like that with me? That they should submit to the type of relationship I want out of them, and be willing to spend all of their spare cash and free time to do so?

[dispatch3d]

yeah I'm definitely not horrifically offended by that type of women. I'm glad you did that though, reading those paragraphs I really have no emotional reaction.

[zengirl]

I especially love this part.

 

Despite that, I have some "feminine" hobbies. I love getting Brazilian waxes and scrapbooking especially. And though I'm not a huge cosmetic surgery addict, I'm thinking of getting a tummy tuck in the spring.

 

That's some high art.

[U1987]

BTW I was going to help OP improve his online dating profile privately.

 

But then I looked at his past posts and saw that he is really trying to trick girls into having casual sex. I didn't want any part in that.

 

So OP, that's why I didn't respond to your PMs

 

Wow. Just wow.

 

I'm younger than you, and even I think that's really childish and immature.

 

You're the one who offered, and when you didn't get back, I thought there was something wrong with the site's messaging system.

 

Seriously, what the ****?

[U1987]

So OP, simply said, you want a woman who recognizes who and what you are( a "good catch") but also accepts what you want in a "relationship" (or non-relationship relationship) AND have sex with you? Fair enough. I do not understand why some people have a problem with that. Maybe someday you will get to a point in your life where you'd want a serious relationship. In the meantime, keep being honest about what you really want. Unfortunately, I do not have an advise to you on how to convey that message to the opposite sex-aside from being upfront about it-ie. telling them in no uncertain terms you are only interested in sex. Many women ( as you can tell by the many posts here on LS), sleep with the men they meet despite knowing his level of interest in the hope of changing his mind. So, good luck!

 

I appreciate the understanding and support, so thank you.

[Els]

Wow. Just wow.

 

I'm younger than you, and even I think that's really childish and immature.

 

You're the one who offered, and when you didn't get back, I thought there was something wrong with the site's messaging system.

 

Seriously, what the ****?

 

Because she offered before she happened to read your past posts? What's so immature about that?

[OceanGirl]

Because she offered before she happened to read your past posts? What's so immature about that?

 

I offered when I thought you are a young guy who genuinely wants to connect with women and has trouble doing so. I don't remember reading any of your posts at the time I offered to help.

 

When I did a little bit of research, I was disgusted. It's one thing to want casual sex, but you were actively trying to trick women into thinking that you want a relationship so that they would put out Some of your posts were so degrading to women that I didn't think you deserved a reply to your PMs

[OceanGirl]

Well, let me try it:

 

[/i]

 

I like this. I LOL-ed

[Els]

I offered when I thought you are a young guy who genuinely wants to connect with women and has trouble doing so. I don't remember reading any of your posts at the time I offered to help.

 

When I did a little bit of research, I was disgusted. It's one thing to want casual sex, but you were actively trying to trick women into thinking that you want a relationship so that they would put out Some of your posts were so degrading to women that I didn't think you deserved a reply to your PMs

 

I second this.

[U1987]

I second this.

 

What's degrading? That I said that I just don't want to deal with all the hassle and drama and phoniness of serious relationships?

 

That's not degrading; that's just honest.

[GooseChaser]

actively trying to trick women

 

honest

 

Does not compute

Edited January 12, 2011 by GooseChaser