whichwayisup Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Thank you for this advice. My MM wife does contact him daily when we are together. I have heard their conversations at times and it is all very bland and just updating on lifes daily affairs. However he knows I find over hearing those conversations difficult so he does now go outside or move out of ear shot. He is leading a double life with me, living in a different state during the week and moving home to his family at weekends. He always tells me how he tried to compartmentalise his life to deal with the guilt but he cannot do that anymore because the lines are blurred. He assures me he missed me a great deal over the christmas holidays. Its a new year and a new me and you are right why would he give up a marraige and family for someone who is 20 years younger than him and he has only been in a relationship with for 6 months. I am fooling myself Yes you are fooling yourself. He is NOT EVER going to leave his wife and divorce her to be with you. 6 months vs their marriage and their life..No way. Break up with him and save yourself before you get in deeper. This affair is going no where, UNLESS you want to settle for table scraps, be second fiddle to his wife and kids. He will tell you what you want to hear to keep you in tow. HE will minimize his wife, family life to keep you happy and on your toes, keep you into HIM. Get it? Sorry that i'm being harsh, you deserve better and more, yet you will never get that from him. You're a secret, not only in his life, but your own. You can't show him off, be proud. That must suck, but that IS life of an affair, especially yours since it seems he's living a double life.
Ellin Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Jessy......no one here knows if the guy loves you or not and for anyone here to say that is ludicrous . I say what I gather from OP's description of the situation, which seems very balanced and accurate, she doesn't try to sugarcoat over anything, and this MM doesn't look to me like a sociopathic serial cheater, and I personally think that he does love her. However, if you still think that it's ridiculous to say that, then you will also agree that it's ridiculous to say the opposite (he doesn't love her, it's only an ego stroke and midlife crisis) but somehow you never protested against that.
Ellin Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Your affair is textbook: Older man and younger, impressionable woman. Started off as "such good friends", had a real connection When it escalated, you tried so hard to keep from crossing that line. But you did and now Supposedly the wife and husband are more friends than lovers Supposedly they are not sleeping together. Supposedly he's in it for the kid. Supposedly your story is different From the 10 million other stories out there with the same conditions. Take the rose colored lens off. If he wants to be with you AND ONLY YOU he would have left her shortly after it started. This is totally unrealistic. MM will not leave his family a week or a month after an A started. It's absurd to expect that. People here keep saying that she cannot expect him to leave his W for someone he's known for 6 months, but you think it would be normal to expect that he would leave after a short while, when they didn't even have time to get to know each other grow attached properly? From what I've read here it often takes several years for MM to D and be with OW as an official couple and it's not surprising, considering how difficult it is on many levels to untangle the emotional, financial, practical and other ties he has with his W and children. Just because your xMM/xH left his family very quickly for you, doesn't mean that others who don't do it immediatey will never do it. Neither does it mean that he loved you that much. If he had, he wouldn't have become your xH after a rather short M. He just comes across as someone who is unable to sustain normal Rs and has some serious issues. It's abnormal to be able to leave W and young child in a blink of an eye for a new woman. Some MM really do care about their children and can hardly bear the thought of living away from them, especially when they're very young, or being rejected by them for leaving, especially when they're older.
BB07 Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 I say what I gather from OP's description of the situation, which seems very balanced and accurate, she doesn't try to sugarcoat over anything, and this MM doesn't look to me like a sociopathic serial cheater, and I personally think that he does love her. However, if you still think that it's ridiculous to say that, then you will also agree that it's ridiculous to say the opposite (he doesn't love her, it's only an ego stroke and midlife crisis) but somehow you never protested against that. Ellin......opinions are like arzholes, everyone has one. You nor I know anything positively about what the man feels. I just don't want to see her hang on to false hope and as we all know, loving her is not the big question. The big question to the OP is, will he leave and how long will she choose to remain an OW. Obviously she wants more than just being an OW. I said what I said because I don't want her to hurt more down the road. It's that simple. Ellin.......I'm going to tell you something that I don't talk about too much on here, OK. During the time when I was knowenly the OW, I clung to every little bit of hope that I could find to hang on to. I talked to my bf till she was blue in the face and every little thing that she would say that I could possibly find some hope in.......I clung to it. It was ridiouslous and it was hurting me and it was not realistic and at that time, I didn't even have a clue of how unrealistic it was. It almost destroyed me and before someone says that what happened more recently colors my perception of that time, I would say NO it doesn't. I would have told you a year ago, the exact same thing. If she is fine with being just an OW.......then fine, don't expect more, but clearly that is not the case, she wants more and she should look at it realistically, not cling to false hope.
Author jessyj Posted January 9, 2011 Author Posted January 9, 2011 Your affair is textbook: Older man and younger, impressionable woman. Started off as "such good friends", had a real connection When it escalated, you tried so hard to keep from crossing that line. But you did and now Supposedly the wife and husband are more friends than lovers Supposedly they are not sleeping together. Supposedly he's in it for the kid. Supposedly your story is different From the 10 million other stories out there with the same conditions. Take the rose colored lens off. If he wants to be with you AND ONLY YOU he would have left her shortly after it started. If things were that straightforward I would not be on this site looking for some advice. I am merely explaining my R exactly how it is and I am not looking for people to sugar coat things and tell me he is going to leave etc. I think it is ridiculous to think that a MM would give up his marraige and family after being in a R for a very short period of time and I woudnt expect this. I certainly do not have rose coloured lens on and If anything I scrutinise my R more than I should. I know for a fact that my MM and his wife are not sleeping together (my explanation for how I know this is long winded and not something I wish to divulge on here but I do know that he is telling me the truth when he tells me this.) As a result of this I would presume that he is more friends than lovers with his wife. My story may not be different but I am just stating the facts. I am certainly not a young impressionable woman. I guess I will only get to the bottom of my questions by discussing this all with him.
Ellin Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Mine left 2 months after starting in with me. And then M you and quickly cheated on you, isn't that right? Sounds like someone who's unable to make any sort of committment and lacks conscience, changes women as often as underwear.. Smells of some personality disorder. Like I said, every case is different.
BB07 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 This is totally unrealistic. MM will not leave his family a week or a month after an A started. It's absurd to expect that. People here keep saying that she cannot expect him to leave his W for someone he's known for 6 months, but you think it would be normal to expect that he would leave after a short while, when they didn't even have time to get to know each other grow attached properly? OK Ellin, lets go with what you said in the above and accept it as truth. So.........what is a reasonable time for her to wait? From what I've read here it often takes several years for MM to D and be with OW as an official couple and it's not surprising, considering how difficult it is on many levels to untangle the emotional, financial, practical and other ties he has with his W and children. Let's also go with the above as true......so it's OK for her to wait possibly years? The OP has said she wants more than just being his OW, how long should she wait? Most OW's lose self respect and go through incredible pain at being the second best, is that acceptable? Of course it wouldn't apply if all she wanted was to be an OW, but she has clearly stated she wants more. Does she lesson her expectations, put her wants and needs on the back burner?
Ellin Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 OK Ellin, lets go with what you said in the above and accept it as truth. So.........what is a reasonable time for her to wait? Let's also go with the above as true......so it's OK for her to wait possibly years? The OP has said she wants more than just being his OW, how long should she wait? Most OW's lose self respect and go through incredible pain at being the second best, is that acceptable? Of course it wouldn't apply if all she wanted was to be an OW, but she has clearly stated she wants more. Does she lesson her expectations, put her wants and needs on the back burner? Gosh, it's not my place to tell her how long to wait. I said in my first post that only she knows if he's worth the gamble. I said that IMO he loves her but no one knows if he'll ever leave his W and it will without a doubt be a very difficult thing for him to do. What's the big deal FGS?
Author jessyj Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 Of course it wouldn't apply if all she wanted was to be an OW, but she has clearly stated she wants more. Does she lesson her expectations, put her wants and needs on the back burner? I completely understand where you are coming from and you are merely warning me of the pain and struggle I would go through if I was to wait for him to make a decision to leave. I think Ellin is right there is no straight rule as to a certain time limit to wait. I do however know that this time next year I do not still want to be stuck in the same situation saying the same things to myself. I have respect for myself and I do not want to be just the OW you are right but I am willing to give him somemore time. I guess that is why I wrote this post... to decide if I am being foolish in giving him time and fighting for him.
woinlove Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 What's the big deal FGS? Not addressed to me, but your response raised my eyebrows too. Here we have an OW asking if she should cut her losses and make a break. From everything I read here, I would think any OW who is thinking of cutting her losses and feels she can do it, should go for it. This forum is filled with OW whose self-worth seems to be destroyed from having invested too much time and too much of themselves in a MM. I would worry about encouraging any OW who is wondering whether to stick it out. If it was only heartbreak, it wouldn't be so bad. But from this forum, it seems that many affairs have a way of sucking the confidence out of OW after a while.
Ellin Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Not addressed to me, but your response raised my eyebrows too. Here we have an OW asking if she should cut her losses and make a break. From everything I read here, I would think any OW who is thinking of cutting her losses and feels she can do it, should go for it. This forum is filled with OW whose self-worth seems to be destroyed from having invested too much time and too much of themselves in a MM. I would worry about encouraging any OW who is wondering whether to stick it out. If it was only heartbreak, it wouldn't be so bad. But from this forum, it seems that many affairs have a way of sucking the confidence out of OW after a while. My response stems from the fact that I'm sick and tired of the resident posters flocking like a bunch of vultures to every post, in which there is even a shred of something remotely positive about an A to make sure it's been "taken care of" as quickly as possible. One would be forgiven for thinking that the lot gets paid for it. Unfortunately I haven't got as much time to spend on this forum and am fed up of constantly being attacked for trying to be understanding and supportive to others in a way I see fit. The OP in this thread is clearly a bright and intelligent adult who can perfectly think for herself and she has received more than enough warnings, but a few short sentences of mine, in which - good heavens! - I dare mention that I think he does love her - cannot be left in peace.
BB07 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Gosh, it's not my place to tell her how long to wait. I said in my first post that only she knows if he's worth the gamble. I said that IMO he loves her but no one knows if he'll ever leave his W and it will without a doubt be a very difficult thing for him to do. What's the big deal FGS? It IS a very big deal Ellin........what she decides could ruin her life or impact her life negatively for years or possibly the rest of her life. Don't you remember the stories we sometimes read on here where the OW is almost suicidal or is suicidal? Or how about the ones where their life is in shreds? Or the ones where they have wasted YEARS waiting on a man who is never going to be their own? Or the damage that is done to the wife and kids at home? Or the loss of self respect and the pain they have endured? Or the ones who wonder if they can ever have a normal relationship with a man because the damage seems to be too great? IT IS A VERY BIG DEAL!!!!
BB07 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 My response stems from the fact that I'm sick and tired of the resident posters flocking like a bunch of vultures to every post, in which there is even a shred of something remotely positive about an A to make sure it's been "taken care of" as quickly as possible. One would be forgiven for thinking that the lot gets paid for it. Unfortunately I haven't got as much time to spend on this forum and am fed up of constantly being attacked for trying to be understanding and supportive to others in a way I see fit. The OP in this thread is clearly a bright and intelligent adult who can perfectly think for herself and she has received more than enough warnings, but a few short sentences of mine, in which - good heavens! - I dare mention that I think he does love her - cannot be left in peace. Oh for pete's sake Ellin........calling us vultures who are being nice and kind to this poster who came here and told her story and asked for opinions.......vultures uh? Taken care of.........geez......if you want to call trying to warn someone of future pain and grief. Funny, I don't recall anyone attacking you in the thread, I just didn't agree with your opinion and I thought I did it quite nicely. Why..........did I do it? Again.......I don't want to see this woman hurt more down the road. Oh for real???.......now you are saying that we are treating the OP like she is an idiot? NOT........I clearly see she is anything but an idiot, but she is kinda new at this affair thing. No one has treated her like she is in any way shape or form an idiot. To say we have is just a diversion on your part and a low blow imo.
Ellin Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 It IS a very big deal Ellin........what she decides could ruin her life or impact her life negatively for years or possibly the rest of her life. Don't you remember the stories we sometimes read on here where the OW is almost suicidal or is suicidal? Or how about the ones where their life is in shreds? Or the ones where they have wasted YEARS waiting on a man who is never going to be their own? Or the damage that is done to the wife and kids at home? Or the loss of self respect and the pain they have endured? Or the ones who wonder if they can ever have a normal relationship with a man because the damage seems to be too great? IT IS A VERY BIG DEAL!!!! So if she reads one post, in which there is a mention of his love for her, this is going to ruin her entire life? Let's be real, huh? And when it comes to the damage to self-esteem, telling someone that she's just a side piece etc (I know this particular expression hasn't been used on this thread, but its has been implied a bit more nicely) is something that is definitely going to do it.
Ellin Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Oh for pete's sake Ellin........calling us vultures who are being nice and kind to this poster who came here and told her story and asked for opinions.......vultures uh? Taken care of.........geez......if you want to call trying to warn someone of future pain and grief. Funny, I don't recall anyone attacking you in the thread, I just didn't agree with your opinion and I thought I did it quite nicely. Why..........did I do it? Again.......I don't want to see this woman hurt more down the road. Oh for real???.......now you are saying that we are treating the OP like she is an idiot? NOT........I clearly see she is anything but an idiot, but she is kinda new at this affair thing. No one has treated her like she is in any way shape or form an idiot. To say we have is just a diversion on your part and a low blow imo. FTR I do agree that you have been rather nice in this thread and please don't take anything personally, I was just talking in a general terms and didn't call anyone a vulture... But I said "like vultures" because I just have this image in mind whenever I see how so many posters always descend in a group on newcomers and shoot them down with tons of negativity.. Didn't want you to feel offended.
desertIslandCactus Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 From what I've heard, it can go either way.. Some say if it is going to happen with the M breakup and marrying the OW, it happens sooner than later. Others say it took them years to break up the M and get him to come over. So there you have the bright eyed bushy tailed MM coming over within months .. Or you have the wait. I would think the wait would entail his going back and forth until the W has had it with his being preoccupied and showing indifference toward her. Thus the OW, as a big ol fish hanging on for dear life, wears everyone down .. ha
desertIslandCactus Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Not addressed to me, but your response raised my eyebrows too. Here we have an OW asking if she should cut her losses and make a break. From everything I read here, I would think any OW who is thinking of cutting her losses and feels she can do it, should go for it. This forum is filled with OW whose self-worth seems to be destroyed from having invested too much time and too much of themselves in a MM. I would worry about encouraging any OW who is wondering whether to stick it out. If it was only heartbreak, it wouldn't be so bad. But from this forum, it seems that many affairs have a way of sucking the confidence out of OW after a while. Amen to that Woinlove.. If an OW isn't suffering from lack of self esteem before hooking up with the MM .. surely she feels an inner emptiness during the A. Strength and confidence comes once she finds herself again.
JsSweetPea Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Hi Jessy, My heart goes out to you.....I'm sort of in a similar situation & have certainly had my moments of wondering will he or won't he leave. First of all, you're not a fool. You're a person in love & if your MM tells you he loves you too & wants to be with you it's hard not to believe him, especially when you want him so badly. I agree with one of the other posters... I think he got a big dose of family time during Christmas & his guilt set in. Maybe all the time at home got to him & the reality of how hard it is to leave is setting in. I think you're on the right path by giving him the time & space he needs. In my situation, I haven't asked my MM to leave. I've never pressured him & I feel like he has so much stress at home with the wifey that I don't want to add any more. In my case, the A has been going on for 9 months & last month he told me his plans to leave. Because of financial reasons & some problems with his kids we both agreed that he shouldn't leave now. I haven't given him a date but I also agree that if you decide you're going to give him a deadline you should try your hardest to stick to it. Someone else on here, I believe it was Lucrezia maybe, said something that really stayed with me... "You aren't competing with his wife. You are coexisting with her." If you want to continue this relationship you're going to have to keep that in mind. I hope everything works out for you.
KickinCowgirl Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 First of all, you're not a fool. You're a person in love & if your MM tells you he loves you too & wants to be with you it's hard not to believe him, especially when you want him so badly. Amen! Right - at the end of the day only you really know this guy. I would probably end it but thats me, not you. I don't doubt that he has feelings for you but you can do better and someone who can love you for you compeltely but put you first in this, not him. However he probably will drag his heels in leaving, thats if he does. I'm sorry I know its hard.
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