say my name

[zengirl]

The Dale Carnegie book is not really a terribly manipulative thing if you read the whole thing.

 

I mean, his fundamental basis is that acting the right way---and really, half of what he says is just to be well-mannered and positive---will get you better results. I don't find it all that terribly manipulative, nor do I find showing someone's importance to you by being a good listener (this is half the book) or saying/remembering their name to be manipulative.

 

Manipulation is about a trick. Doing something to get people to like you, when that's the idea of the thing---i.e. using this technique to make friends or help on dates---doesn't seem like a trick to me. It just seems like a nice way to be.

 

Basically, all Dale Carnegie ever says---and I read the whole series back when I was in sales----is that you get more flies with honey than vinegar. If that's manipulation, then so is good personal hygiene, basic manners, and civility. Wanting people to like you is not sinister.

 

P.S. It was part of an "Integrity Sales" series I did with my company, and we really did very nice, integrity-based sales. No lies. No pushing. It was advertising. And the whole idea was to build good relationships in the community, because word-of-mouth was so important. The integrity of our product was key. And Dale Carnegie is considered a strong voice of "integrity" in general. That was the basis for most of his life and business advice----that if you choose the right actions, really get to understand and know people, you can help them better their lives and businesses, while bettering your own. It mostly relates to business, though.

Edited January 7, 2011 by zengirl

[Star Gazer]

The Dale Carnegie book is not really a terribly manipulative thing if you read the whole thing.

 

Wanting people to like you is not sinister.

 

I didn't say it was.

 

I said there are some people who will use your name beyond just being nice and getting people to like you, but as emotional manipulation. Players, shady guys, etc. I said nothing more than that. Please don't twist what I said.

[zengirl]

I didn't say it was.

 

I said there are some people who will use your name beyond just being nice and getting people to like you, but as emotional manipulation. Players, shady guys, etc. I said nothing more than that. Please don't twist what I said.

 

I was more referring to the overall tone everything was taking than just one comment by anyone. Hence why I didn't quote anyone!

[musemaj11]

The Dale Carnegie book is not really a terribly manipulative thing if you read the whole thing.

Well, to tell the truth, the book is like a gun. In the hand of a policeman, it protects people, but in the hand of a criminal, it kills innocent people.

 

I was already a chatty friendly person before reading the book. But after reading it I became more aware of my action and I felt like I was manipulating people when I was just doing what I had always been doing.

 

Honestly I regret ever reading it.

[zengirl]

Well, to tell the truth, the book is like a gun. In the hand of a policeman, it protects people, but in the hand of a criminal, it kills innocent people.

 

I was already a chatty friendly person before reading the book. But after reading it I became more aware of my action and I felt like I was manipulating people when I was just doing what I had always been doing.

 

Honestly I regret ever reading it.

 

But if you act the way Carnegie says, you can't kill people. Or do anything of the like. He makes a big fuss about how bad actions often come back to haunt you in bad reputations.

 

I see those books as a good example of "selfish" goodness. I'm a big proponent of, "Do the right things because it will be better for you. Maybe not in the short-term, but for long-term happiness." That seems to be a theme of the Carnegie books, or did to me.

[musemaj11]

But if you act the way Carnegie says, you can't kill people. Or do anything of the like. He makes a big fuss about how bad actions often come back to haunt you in bad reputations.

 

I see those books as a good example of "selfish" goodness. I'm a big proponent of, "Do the right things because it will be better for you. Maybe not in the short-term, but for long-term happiness." That seems to be a theme of the Carnegie books, or did to me.

Oh come on, I agree that Carnegie was probably a genuinely good person and did not intend to make his book as a 'Manipulation for Dummies' or something. But in reality it is a Manipulation Manual. After all the title of the book itself is, "How to Influence People".

[zengirl]

Oh come on, I agree that Carnegie was probably a genuinely good person and did not intend to make his book as a 'Manipulation for Dummies' or something. But in reality it is a Manipulation Manual. After all the title of the book itself is, "How to Influence People".

 

Yes, and I see nothing wrong with influencing people.

 

Influencing people is not tricking them. I try to influence and affect kids every day (well, every day when it's not my day off like it has been for three weeks), and I don't think I'm trying to "trick" them.

 

There is nothing that can be done in life, good or bad, without influencing others. Influence, in and of itself, is a lovely thing. It is responsibility. Using it well is certainly key. However, Carnegie's ways work better if you have integrity. It's really hard to benefit from a lot of his advice if you don't. That was my point.

[Art_Critic]

Saying Hey is better than them saying Sandy when your name is really Sally ...

[OceanGirl]

Honestly, I saw his book as a manipulation manual in disguise. For example, in the dating context a player that has read the book can easily use it to build fake rapport/ sense of intimacy in the hopes of having sex with you at the end of the date.

[musemaj11]

It's really hard to benefit from a lot of his advice if you don't. That was my point.

I disagree. You actually can get a lot more benefit if you dont have integrity. Influence is power.

[SilverLining]

Getting back to the topic...I just realized now that people don't usually say my name, and I don't normally say theirs. Now the guy I'm hanging out with, I say his name a LOT. But he almost never says mine...although he is admittedly not the best with social cues and whatnot.

 

But it truly is the sweetest thing to hear...especially in a moment of intimacy...

[carhill]

I use people's names in conversation because I have a lousy memory for names and repeating them helps me remember. I've also found it helps me connect with people and helps them to feel more comfortable and open with me. I naturally appear to do much of what is in the book being discussed, primarily to foster social connection, though I haven't done a lot of public speaking. Humans are social animals and even a relative loner like myself likes to connect with people. I also find remembering small details about people fosters better connection.

 

Is that a function of being emotionally available? Unknown. If I had a better memory I wouldn't have to seem so available

[elaina]

I've always wondered why it is that some guys are reluctant to use a girl's name, especially when first getting to know her.

 

I've wondered that before too... I'm usually called Sweetie or Baby by guys I date, so it absolutely thrills me when they use my name!

All of the guys I dated who turned out to be selfish or emotionally unavailable rarely used my name. It's always hey this or hey that. If we got into a serious long term relationship, they would start using it more often, but it was still uncommon. Even a few of the guys who really liked me were hesitant about calling me by name at first.

 

What's the deal with this? I'll admit it annoys the crap out of me, as it feels very impersonal. I mean has our society become so detached that, in the interest of proving you don't give a fck, it's considered overly intimate to call somebody by their given name?

It is very personal to use one's first name. I have never had an issue calling a guy by his name... I like to! However, I have once accidentally called one ex another ex's name. That didn't go over well at all, and I was horrified myself. So, sometimes i wonder if maybe that's why some guys don't seem to call a girl by her name very often till later on in the relationship? Because they don't want to write a name on their heart till they're sure? I don't know.

 

I always make a point of using people's names, even when I barely know them. It communicates respect and warmth.

Me too. As a girl with three sisters, I have been called "you" and have continuously heard my parents go through the list of their kids names before getting to mine, and I just really appreciate hearing people say my name (without going through a list, no offense to my parents lol) Also, my name is unique (it's not Elaina... Elaina is a nickname) and only my closest friends/family use my real name and know how to say it right it seems.)

[northern_sky]

The guy I was casually dating over the fall never said my name, not once that I recall. Not in person nor in emails or texts. It's a bit strange to think about, since we probably hung out about 15 times. To me that just underscores how emotionally detached he was from whatever we had.

 

I don't need a guy to constantly say my name, but once in awhile is important to me, even if he's just a friend. The alternative is a bit dehumanizing. Maybe this is just a sensitive spot for me. From what I gather in this thread, it doesn't seem to bother most people.

[OceanGirl]

I just want to recommend "How to win friends and influence people" to anyone who has trouble making friends. Also, for guys that have problem connecting to women - you will get much more out of this book than PUA c%ap.

 

The tactics are really good and they work.