Titania22 Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Also... Why do you LoveShack ladies always try to put things in terms of ownership when it comes to money. Do you have a history of being owned? Yes! Next question...
musemaj11 Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Only naive children believe that they are entitled to be given money without earning it. Up until the 50s women probably thought that money grew on trees. But its sad that today many women still seem to think so.
catgotyourtongue Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 So Ocean: How long do you multi-date before you finally choose one to be intimate with? You can obviously see the irony behind this. Women have no problem letting men wine and dine and spend time and money knowing they dont want to sleep with these guys, and then also get mad when a man expects to sleep with you after x amount of dates and time? I don't get it, and I am women (perhaps most hated on this forum for sticking up for me, so be it). It's women that use up good men, and spit them out (I did it when I was younger and deeply regret it) that help to create this anger or angst in men. Same with the as*hole guys who help damage women's brains, hearts. Don't hate on me: NO I do not think that women OWE men sex because they have a few dates but I do think it is unreasonable to think that men won't expect sex after x amount of time, money. It's not the money per se, it's an investment in getting to know you. THIS is how men show they care and like you at the start, they wooo you, as you are doing to them. MEN are not as emotional and deep as women so they can't put all that out there with a stranger. So they ask you out on dates and spend money, both signs they want to get to know you better, be it sex, or LTR. Why women are so surprised that men will expect sex sooner rather than later (if they man has spent dates/time) baffles me. They are men, they think with their d**k's good or bad, we gotta deal with that. I don't like the idea or practice of women going through men like water, taking dinners, gifts etc for any stretch of period if they are not interested in that man. It's selfish, and I just don't do it. I am not accusing you of playing men, but many women do. It gives me the creeps. It's such a take-take society, and man I pray for more givers. We are so jaded. Multi-daters-how long are you spending with these men, women, before you decide...?? Do they all know you are seeing other people? I think it's tacky to date one dude while having sex with another. However, I feel that it's fine to multi-date people if there is no sex involved.
catgotyourtongue Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 In my post to Ocean, I had a typo I meant to say: (I am probably the most hated women poster because I stick up for men) -instead I said "I stick up for me, lol)
sally4sara Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 When you look at the reasons many men spend money on women and call it "wooing" it rarely has much to do with generosity. I don't think it is wise to allow someone to prove themselves to you through money either. It tells you nothing about their integrity, their personal code, or their passion. In such a take take world - it is just another method of taking. Money won't laugh at his jokes and make him feel witty. It won't keep him warm at night or feel soft laying next to him. It doesn't moan softly when he touches it. It can't share thoughts with him about a movie or book he loaned it. So it coming out of his pocket for a woman is a service to him more than it is a service to some woman. And why not, he worked to earn it. He is going to expect you to earn it from him too eventually. Its got very little to do with a generous spirit. So I've never understood why it coming out of his pocket for her expenses indicates much about him as a choice for a partner. It made some sense when women didn't work but it was still not about how good his character was in the search for a life mate. It doesn't only come out of his pocket for the "right" woman like some Sword and the Stone, King Arthur story. He will spend it on any woman he wants to sleep with and Ladies! That's a lot of women other than you! But can he keep you in a fit of giggles without spending a penny? Can he talk about stuff he knows and keep your attention for hours in the park over PB&j sandwiches? Does he remember something you said you were interested in only once and help you find a way to enjoy it for free? Can he teach you a new skill you enjoy doing together? Show you some easier way of doing something with things you already have? Then you've got a guy who will be a star in your eyes no matter what is in the bank. Most will muddle through in their mediocrity by flashing the money around. If that is what does it for you, you're selling (yes selling) yourself cheap no matter how much he spent. So fellas, if she won't let you cover her expenses - how will you impress her? How will you feel entitled to her affections?
musemaj11 Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Glad to know that there is at least one woman with a working logic in the entire forum. Talking about cat by the way. Edited January 7, 2011 by musemaj11
carhill Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 OP, it's common. It's happened to me. It's happened to you. It's happened to everyone, most likely. This is the clear advantage to having a wide range of female friends. I get very few surprises from women. Don't confuse that with disappointments. I've had plenty of those. Surprises? Few. I'll up the ante by sharing that some (that I've known personally) have had sexual relations with their ex'es (ex-H's/BF's) while having sex with dates. It's not uncommon IME. They're 'deciding'. Sometimes it happens while they're still in the marriage or relationship, sometimes not. Of course, unless it's a threesome MMF, they can say, with complete honesty, that they're not 'sleeping' with anyone else. They aren't, at that particular moment. You will *never* find out this information from a woman you date. This is strictly girlfriend with (or without) penis stuff. This message will now self-destruct BTW, for gender equality, replace woman with man. No one gender owns this arena, IMO.
catgotyourtongue Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Hi I want to check in and make sure I am not offending women here on a general level. I have struggled with a lot of male/female issues so I am not giving men a pass for poor behavior. Believe me, I am hard on my men, lol, because I expect more integrity and respect from them, often. I guess I am just used to how they work, operate. To be clear: I have been offended too when men expect sex, just cause you spent a date with them. I have been accused of being a tease and man-eater because a "friend" took me out for dinner to thank me for being so kind to him when he went through a hard time, and then he tried to turn it into more and got PISSED when it did not turn into passion/sex. We had a blow out. So I do not excuse men's poor behavior, and do think men are too obsessed about sex & many do try to control with money. IT does not mean that I don't sort of expect them to act the way they do. My post I think came off in a way I did not mean. Money does not matter much to me, I was trying to say that I see where some men's heads are when they spend money on women (note: their heads) They expect things. This is only some. I typically do not let men spend much money on me, and try to pay my share as often as I can, especially at first. I am happy to have a boyfriend take me dinner and a nice show, but i don't expect it. I don't think money is a sign of love, at all, I think actions are. If someone bought me a dozen roses to go with a nice dinner, it's sort of lost on me, just not my thing. If someone dropped chicken soup at my door because they knew I didn't feel well, that would speak volumes. I just did not want the women to think I am supportive of bad behavior nor stating that I think dinner dates should lead to sex, not at all. I was saying that it's clear many men WILL think and see and feel this way, to a degree. I get that. Right or wrong. Men have been walked over by women for a while, and women have been walked over by men for as long as time, we both have our share of poor behavior and unreal expectations. Just trying to see it from the man's point of view, not agreeing with it always believe me, men drive me crazy at time, lol, and some on this forum, do too, lol. But I do think sometimes we don't see if from where they sit, right or wrong, they are allowed to have an opinion and not be bashed for every thought, unless of course it's bash-worthy, lol. (sponge-worthy anyone? Seinfeld reference, lol).
SmileFace Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 If you agree to go on a date with a man and have him pay for you... Then you should respect that regardless of whether you want to view it as an "investment" or "getting to know you". Why does he have to pay for me to go on a date? Who agreed to this?I never said I see dates as an investment. I said the original poster is viewing dates as an investment. Also... Why do you LoveShack ladies always try to put things in terms of ownership when it comes to money. Do you have a history of being owned? Refer to quoted text -- "if I'm putting money into dates" It's about trust. If a guy is spending time, effort, and money to get to know you... he is trusting that you are not with someone else at the end of the night. If you can't be trustworthy, then what kind of person are you? All a guy needs to spend on me is time and effort. He can buy me a Porshe and I still will need time and effort for me to commit. What I was saying is I really don't understand why the original poster even mentioned money. The question would of been just fine with out him stating he is "putting money into dates". I personally have no problem if the person I am dating is sexing he wants while we are dating. . fuller fuller fuller Bolded text is my reply
carhill Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 I didn't see the money part as significant but I guess it is to the OP.... Here's a tip: Spend the money on dating that you would spend knowing the woman is dating and having sex with other men until she demonstrates with word and action that the two of you are exclusive. I see this, monetarily, the same way as loaning friends money. Don't loan more than you're willing to give without repayment. Give what you give freely and without consideration of return or repayment, in *any* currency. Good luck
Author Mad Max Posted January 7, 2011 Author Posted January 7, 2011 Do you do that, OP? Do I date one woman and sleep with another? No I don't.
zaccer Posted January 7, 2011 Posted January 7, 2011 Is this disrespectful? Tacky? Unethical? Frankly, I find it extremely disrespectful for a woman to sleep with someone else if I'm putting money into dates. Any ladies feel the same about men that date you and are sleeping with someone else? Edit- the thread title should say someone else It is disrespectful to inform your date about other guys. Why would a woman do that if she has some common sense unless she wants to get rid of you? Otherwise, it is not disrespectful because you simply do not know the information.
musemaj11 Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Men: Want sex to feel romanced Women: Want to be dined and wined to feel romanced Ladies, I fail to understand why you think the latter is acceptable while the former is not? Lets face it, generally men and women have different ideas of romance. So if a woman accepts a man wining and dining her, then its only fair that he should have the right to demand sex from her IF HE WANTS IT. Otherwise she is cheating him because she has no problem taking romance from him but refuses to give him the romance he wants. Dont accept a favor, if you are unprepared to return the favor. This is just a simple logic really. Although maybe thats why exactly its difficult for most women to get it.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 People who view relationships as financial transactions, are probably never going to have good relationships. That is what I think. OP - if you were going "dutch" or if the woman was paying for YOU on dates ... evidently you would not care if she were having sex with another man / men? Bringing money you spent into the discussion is tacky. All you guys who feel this way: Why not do yourselves and the women you date a favor and STOP paying for dates. Go dutch, or find a sugar momma who will pay for YOU on dates. And don't say that can't be done; that women require you to pay. Yes, many do, no doubt about that. Leave those women to men who feel fine about paying for dates. Yes, there are such men. Clearly, you are NOT going to be in harmony with women who expect men to pay for dates. Your choices will be narrower, but at least you might be able to curb your resentments and actually get to know the women you are spending your time with.
BobSacamento Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 I agree with the OP 100%. I do not believe it's ethical for the woman to allow the man to pay if she is sleeping with another man. If she is doing this she is leading him on.
musemaj11 Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) OP - if you were going "dutch" or if the woman was paying for YOU on dates ... evidently you would not care if she were having sex with another man / men? I would care, but she doesnt owe me anything so she is free to do whatever she wants with her life. And I wouldnt let ANYONE pay for me for anything unless I plan to return the favor. I have integrity. I dont take advantage of people. I expect myself to live up to the standard that I set for other people. Edited January 8, 2011 by musemaj11
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Financial issues in a household do cause strain. Mostly, it's arguments over how to handle them -- different financial styles -- that cause issues, rather than the money itself. These arise more often in hard times, obviously. But I think that's more about the values involved than the money. My point was that it's disingenuous for JJ to imply that is how Max views relationships. It's exceedingly rare to find people who look at a relationship AS a transaction. Instead most people view the relationship through whatever idealogical and emotional lens they view money in general. Which is pretty much exactly what you said. When you look at the reasons many men spend money on women and call it "wooing" it rarely has much to do with generosity. I don't think it is wise to allow someone to prove themselves to you through money either. It tells you nothing about their integrity, their personal code, or their passion. In such a take take world - it is just another method of taking. It doesn't only come out of his pocket for the "right" woman like some Sword and the Stone, King Arthur story. He will spend it on any woman he wants to sleep with and Ladies! That's a lot of women other than you! But can he keep you in a fit of giggles without spending a penny? Can he talk about stuff he knows and keep your attention for hours in the park over PB&j sandwiches? Does he remember something you said you were interested in only once and help you find a way to enjoy it for free? Can he teach you a new skill you enjoy doing together? Show you some easier way of doing something with things you already have? Then you've got a guy who will be a star in your eyes no matter what is in the bank. Most will muddle through in their mediocrity by flashing the money around. If that is what does it for you, you're selling (yes selling) yourself cheap no matter how much he spent. So fellas, if she won't let you cover her expenses - how will you impress her? How will you feel entitled to her affections? Brilliant! I love this post! I completely agree. In the past I've actually found myself putting in less effort into a date because I paid. It's a feeling like... meh... that's good enough. My best dates ever have been the ones I put the most thought into. If you agree to go on a date with a man and have him pay for you... Then you should respect that regardless of whether you want to view it as an "investment" or "getting to know you". Why does he have to pay for me to go on a date? Who agreed to this?I never said I see dates as an investment. I said the original poster is viewing dates as an investment. Also... Why do you LoveShack ladies always try to put things in terms of ownership when it comes to money. Do you have a history of being owned? Refer to quoted text -- "if I'm putting money into dates" It's about trust. If a guy is spending time, effort, and money to get to know you... he is trusting that you are not with someone else at the end of the night. If you can't be trustworthy, then what kind of person are you? All a guy needs to spend on me is time and effort. He can buy me a Porshe and I still will need time and effort for me to commit. What I was saying is I really don't understand why the original poster even mentioned money. The question would of been just fine with out him stating he is "putting money into dates". I personally have no problem if the person I am dating is sexing he wants while we are dating. OP mentioned money because it is part of the issue. As the number of women date guys while sleeping with someone else... it becomes more and more of an issue. Especially as the economy slows down and money is more scarce. Also, when you pay for a date with a woman... she should view that as a gift, and in return act respectfully and appreciative. I think in real life a large number of women understand this and are more than worth the money spent. Mostly on LS I see women try to downplay the cost of a date and toss out that it's just expected for him to pay. Appreciation and respect are looked down on as demeaning. With and attitude like "Why should the Queen be asked to appreciate what is her due?"
musemaj11 Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 I suddenly remember about a female poster in another recent thread who gave her bf a Plasma TV for Christmas. But then she dumped him after he refused to spend the New Year with her and she wants to take the Plasma TV back. So, apparently women are no more 'generous' than men. Its just that they lack the logical capability to see from the opposite point of view. Lets face it, we all work for our money. We sacrifice time and energy for it. You have to be very naive to think that anyone would give up their hard earned money without expecting anything in return. Very naive.
zengirl Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) My point was that it's disingenuous for JJ to imply that is how Max views relationships. It's exceedingly rare to find people who look at a relationship AS a transaction. Instead most people view the relationship through whatever idealogical and emotional lens they view money in general. Which is pretty much exactly what you said. Reasonable. I didn't really understand what you were getting at there. Mostly on LS I see women try to downplay the cost of a date and toss out that it's just expected for him to pay. Appreciation and respect are looked down on as demeaning. With and attitude like "Why should the Queen be asked to appreciate what is her due?" I don't know that I see that. I tend to date men who are happy to pay (nowadays), continually offer, and pay for a larger percentage, mainly because they know I'm a teacher (which in their minds = poor, because I tend to date guys in the tech industry, more because they're brilliant than they make a lot of money, but they do tend to have some money), and most men I meet, my BF included, make 2 or 3 times what I do. When I made more money, I was often happy to pay, especially if I was dating a grad student or nonprofit worker or whatnot. I've been paying more lately with the BF, because he has some major expenses lately, and mine have stayed the same. The percentage really ebbs and flows more with income, IME, than anything else. But neither party should ever pay more than they're willing to part with, out of generosity, and not looking for a "return" directly. At least that's my view. At any rate, in general, my current BF is generous and more often pays. I'm always grateful for this, and I always thank him, just as he always thanks me if I pay, but I wouldn't be grateful for it if he made a big show about it or did it begrudgingly. That'd be WAY big of an issue. Him not paying for my dinner wouldn't be. (Though I am not terribly fond of dutch, except on early dates or if I don't like a guy, when I'll insist, but there's always going back in forth: i.e. I get this one, you get the next one, etc.) So, are you sure that the attitude on LS isn't indicative of the two factors colliding? So many posts here have men so bitter about paying (when, really, you don't have to, and no one should feel they do), and that is kind of unattractive. It just seems very petty, and the opposite of what the man was supposedly trying to convey---generosity. Edited January 8, 2011 by zengirl
musemaj11 Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) At any rate, in general, my current BF is generous and more often pays. I'm always grateful for this, and I always thank him, just as he always thanks me if I pay, but I wouldn't be grateful for it if he made a big show about it or did it begrudgingly. That'd be WAY big of an issue. Him not paying for my dinner wouldn't be. (Though I am not terribly fond of dutch, except on early dates or if I don't like a guy, when I'll insist, but there's always going back in forth: i.e. I get this one, you get the next one, etc.) So, are you sure that the attitude on LS isn't indicative of the two factors colliding? So many posts here have men so bitter about paying (when, really, you don't have to, and no one should feel they do), and that is kind of unattractive. It just seems very petty, and the opposite of what the man was supposedly trying to convey---generosity. Apparently you are just one of those naive women. (when, really, you don't have to, and no one should feel they do) Naive woman ... Ever watched the show 30 DAYS? Maybe they should do a show where they somehow make a woman lives as a man for 30 days and you should be the woman. Only then you understand how men feel that their money is taken for granted by women and how much pressure they feel when it comes to spending money. You wont understand unless you live as a man. "Imagine you lived in a world where women are the ones expected to ask men out and pay on dates. So you gather your bravery and ask a handsome man out and he agrees. Of course you are ecstatic and since you wish to impress him, you are taking him to a nice place. But then you learn that the man is seeing other women also who maybe take him to equally or even nicer places and pay for it, too. So you keep taking him to places for 2-3 dates and paying most if not all the expenses only to find out that he is uninterested in you and disappears. Then you start over again asking another man out and taking him to nice places in order to impress him and win the competition with other suitors only to find out that again he is uninterested after all the money, time and energy you sacrificed. Sooner or later you will start resenting men and thinking that they are all dinner whores who go on dates with multiple women for free meals and entertainments and you start to feel as if you are buying love. So you plan to stop spending money on dates. But then it dawns on you the feeling of insecurity that if by spending money you still couldnt impress them, then how is not spending anything going to increase your luck? Also, since as a woman you are expected to pay, you cant stand the thought of the man you are seeing thinking that you are cheap because you wont pay for the date. And even worse, what if he tells other people that you are cheap? So in the end you would rather pay even if you dont like it." Now is it still so hard for you to discern what men are going through financially when it comes to dating? Maybe if you make good money like your bf it means nothing. He doesnt feel taken advantage of when women run after he invested his hard earned money in his attempt to show his interest. But not all men have the ideal job to afford such an enterprise. Edited January 8, 2011 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
sally4sara Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Ever watched the show 30 DAYS? Maybe they should do a show where they somehow make a woman lives as a man for 30 days and you should be the woman. Only then you understand how men feel that their money is taken for granted by women and how much pressure they feel when it comes to spending money. You wont understand unless you live as a man. Then perhaps you should ask some butchy lesbian women how it goes for them. They're dating women. That they're posturing a masculine attitude (yes I know not all lesbians do) so they will approach and pursue. One I know went the full route. Lopped off the tah tahs and started with the hormones, facial hair, had her name changed and moved to a new city. She now looks like Jeremy Sisto. She said it was men who came across more different in regards to how she was treated. Her experiences with women were fairly the same seeing as she was dating them before the operation. Or ask gay men how they handle dating. Who pays? Under what circumstances is it rude or tacky? what I saw out of the homosexual relationships I have been privy to is that they don't woo each other much with money. Lot of dutch and trading off. The wine and dine is usually a much older man/woman enticing a much younger and less experienced man/woman trying to compensated for the age difference. This tells me there is more than one way to skin a cat and anyone can set the tone and dating style they want to see with good communication. If they expect something you don't want to deal with, you find someone else. It also tells me men have no idea how differently they treat humans based on the gender they perceive the person to be. All humans, but you only treat half as capable people you can hold a real conversation with. Operating under some assumption that another gender can't/won't get it sets a nasty tone that money will not make up for unless money is exactly what they are after. Such as below: I know you are a woman. But for this once Im asking you to use your logic. I know you've got issues musemaji, but you're only going to make them bigger by setting that tone. Spend money or don't; you're still rude and tacky. Edited January 8, 2011 by sally4sara
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 I know you are a woman. But for this once Im asking you to use your logic. Why don't you stop using such condescending language when interacting with women? You are portraying yourself as very dismissible when you do - as a man not to be taken seriously in any respect.
zengirl Posted January 8, 2011 Posted January 8, 2011 Apparently you are just one of those naive women. Naive woman ... Ever watched the show 30 DAYS? Maybe they should do a show where they somehow make a woman lives as a man for 30 days and you should be the woman. Only then you understand how men feel that their money is taken for granted by women and how much pressure they feel when it comes to spending money. You wont understand unless you live as a man. "Imagine you lived in a world where women are the ones expected to ask men out and pay on dates. So you gather your bravery and ask a handsome man out and he agrees. Of course you are ecstatic and since you wish to impress him, you are taking him to a nice place. But then you learn that the man is seeing other women also who maybe take him to equally or even nicer places and pay for it, too. So you keep taking him to places for 2-3 dates and paying most if not all the expenses only to find out that he is uninterested in you and disappears. Then you start over again asking another man out and taking him to nice places in order to impress him and win the competition with other suitors only to find out that again he is uninterested after all the money, time and energy you sacrificed. Sooner or later you will start resenting men and thinking that they are all dinner whores who go on dates with multiple women for free meals and entertainments and you start to feel as if you are buying love. So you plan to stop spending money on dates. But then it dawns on you the feeling of insecurity that if by spending money you still couldnt impress them, then how is not spending anything going to increase your luck? Also, since as a woman you are expected to pay, you cant stand the thought of the man you are seeing thinking that you are cheap because you wont pay for the date. And even worse, what if he tells other people that you are cheap? So in the end you would rather pay even if you dont like it." Now is it still so hard for you to discern what men are going through financially when it comes to dating? Maybe if you make good money like your bf it means nothing. He doesnt feel taken advantage of when women run after he invested his hard earned money in his attempt to show his interest. But not all men have the ideal job to afford such an enterprise. If you care that much about what other people think, or what incompatible women want, then you've got other issues. To the other point: Did you read the part of my post where I said that back when I had a more lucrative (monetarily) career, I often paid for the bulk of dates. I didn't mean paid for MYSELF. I meant, I paid for them. In my relationships, it's always been the partner with the greater income -- whether that was me or the guy -- who paid for more. When it was roughly equal, so was the money stuff. That's just the way it's naturally worked out. Whether I'm the party who pays more or less overall, I always thank anyone who pays on the occasion they pay, and generally I've always gotten a thank you when I paid, as well. To me, a "thank you" is appreciation. And I've never dated a guy who felt like he had to pay. At least as far as I can tell, and I'm both good at sussing out liars/hidden feelings and generally dating pretty honest men. On our first date, my BF paid while I was in the restroom (I left the tip), and I said, "Oh, you didn't have to" (and yes, I meant it), and he said, "I didn't feel like I had to." He seemed quite sincere, and he's a word-vomit kind of guy---meaning he has a problem with oversharing when he's upset, not undersharing. So, I'm going to take him at his word. If you do mind paying, here's the solution: Don't pay. If it's a problem with the girl, well, what's the point in dating someone you resent anyway?
musemaj11 Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Im still convinced that women really have no clue what men are going through. But then again, Im not gonna pretend like I know what women are going through either although I always try to look at things from the opposite side's point of view. As for paying, looking for women under 26 who don't mind paying their own way without losing respect or interest in me is like looking for a needle in a haystack. You guys must think I haven't tried because I have a few times and the results were negative and embarrassing. Its probably worse than how it feels when a woman asks a man out and she gets rejected. I wish I could just enjoy being single but unfortunately I cant. So recently I have decided that until the day I find that woman who doesn't need me to buy her love, I'm going to do exactly that. I'm going to accept that as a guy I need to pay for 'love'. I guess Ill just do like what most guys do, which I refused to do, and make her earn the price I pay for her through other ways.
zengirl Posted January 9, 2011 Posted January 9, 2011 Im still convinced that women really have no clue what men are going through. But then again, Im not gonna pretend like I know what women are going through either although I always try to look at things from the opposite side's point of view. As for paying, looking for women under 26 who don't mind paying their own way without losing respect or interest in me is like looking for a needle in a haystack. You guys must think I haven't tried because I have a few times and the results were negative and embarrassing. Its probably worse than how it feels when a woman asks a man out and she gets rejected. I wish I could just enjoy being single but unfortunately I cant. So recently I have decided that until the day I find that woman who doesn't need me to buy her love, I'm going to do exactly that. I'm going to accept that as a guy I need to pay for 'love'. I guess Ill just do like what most guys do, which I refused to do, and make her earn the price I pay for her through other ways. There's two other things I want to add: 1.) I just don't see any point about complaining about something you're complicit in. I mean, I don't love plucking my eyebrows particularly, but I do it because it makes me more attractive. I'm not going to get all uppity about it. I'm sure I could find someone to love me with unplucked eyebrows, too, but if I pluck them, I'm not going to turn around and get mad at a guy who likes them that way or society for making me feel like I have to. 2.) Also a lot of the pressure for a man to pay for dates comes from the man themselves (inner pressure) or other men. My male friends would be way more weirded out if I went on a first date and paid than my female friends would be. My female friends would only be weirded out if he made considerably more money than I do and didn't offer to pay or let me pay on a first date.
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