seibert253 Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 It amazes me how people invent their own "gray areas" to justify their actions. It's either wrong, or right. There is no gray area.
donnamaybe Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 Sneaking around and doing things BEHIND YOUR PARTNER'S BACK is NEVER okay. That IS lying, because you are only sneaking because you already KNOW they wouldn't want you doing whatever it is that your being sneaky about. at equating eating a sandwich to f'ing someone other than your partner.
TaraMaiden Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 I am talking about polyamory. ......have an inner clarity where you can comfortably choose what is best for you. Terrific theory. really stunning in fact. Tell me.....How's it working for you personally, in practice?
shadowofman Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 This is semantic argument. Doing something behind your partners back is not lying. It's simply doing something behind someone's back. Lying is lying. If your partner has ever said, "you will not/have not ever slept with someone else, have you?" Then doing something behind your partner's back is lying. This of course is very likely to have happened. But if the partner doesn't ask and doesn't really want to know, then there is no fowl. Also, if you never promise to be monogamous, or simply plea the fifth on any such question then there is no fowl. Accuracy people. Accuracy in language. And sex is always comparable to eating. It's an act of consumption where there is an infinite amount to be consumed.
Keridan Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 This is semantic argument. Doing something behind your partners back is not lying. It's simply doing something behind someone's back. Lying is lying. If your partner has ever said, "you will not/have not ever slept with someone else, have you?" Then doing something behind your partner's back is lying. This of course is very likely to have happened. But if the partner doesn't ask and doesn't really want to know, then there is no fowl. Also, if you never promise to be monogamous, or simply plea the fifth on any such question then there is no fowl. Accuracy people. Accuracy in language. And sex is always comparable to eating. It's an act of consumption where there is an infinite amount to be consumed. Quote from Wikipedia: Lying by omission One lies by omission by omitting an important fact, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. An example is when the seller of a car declares it has been serviced regularly but does not tell that a fault was reported at the last service. Propaganda is an example of lying by omission. End quotation. Now, Wikipedia may not be the most reliable source on the planet, but I think you will find this definition accepted in most cases. As long as we are bringing up semantics, I figured this was worth adding.
TaraMaiden Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 This is semantic argument. .... Only because you want it to be.....
shadowofman Posted January 10, 2011 Posted January 10, 2011 It's true. I love semantics. It's how I understand the world.
jenifer1972 Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Shadow of Man, you never cease to crack me up. The ex-English teacher in me could not resist rising to your challenge to use 'accuracy of language'. The phrase is 'no harm, no FOUL', not FOWL. Fowl is a term pertaining to birds... And I challenge you to tell a girl the next time you have sex with her that the interlude was as significant as a ham sandwich.... and that you are now going to continue 'eating and consuming your way through other women', since there is an infinite supply..
TaraMaiden Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Ladies are known as birds or chicks. Maybe, even if it was a malapropism, it had a ring of accuracy to it..... He's quite a cocky fellow, our SoM....
shadowofman Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 Ha. Pointing out my failures does not detract from my self-assumed genius. They only make me stronger. And I challenge you to tell a girl the next time you have sex with her that the interlude was as significant as a ham sandwich.... and that you are now going to continue 'eating and consuming your way through other women', since there is an infinite supply.. I could. But when I'm finished with a ham sandwich, I'm typically satisfied and not thinking about my next meal until my hunger returns. I do want all my meals to know that while I love eating them, I couldn't imagine enjoying a monotonous for very long. Even my favorite dish would no longer be satisfying if that was my only choice all the time.
Joe Normal Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I am a female and have cheated in most of my relationships, even on my soulmate. It took me a while to realise this, but cheating is not wrong, it is just frowned upon. You can still very much love and be in love with someone, be attracted to them emotionally and physically.... and have feelings and connections with other people. Love is constantly fluxuating!! I may love someone alot and then not and then love them again. It's natural in context! What's unnatural is this clinging, expectational view of what love and relationships should be. I believe it is society that has forced monogomy upon us. I do believe in the idea of having a main partner and I think for the most part, if you love someone - and you two are bestfriends and have respect and admiration for each other - you will return to them naturally and it will work. If not, then move on. What i think is unnatural the idea of not to being attracted to other people. It is so limiting, so naive and absurd. Not to mention it creates unnecessary built-up resentment and tensions in what should be a natural and beautiful relationship in the experience of life. As you can see, I'm not endorsing dishonesty. My message here is that honesty is simply the best way to live and love. I wish everyone here good luck in their journey of self-acceptance and love. Cheating is wrong because it involves deceiving people, breaking promises, and (because they rely on your promises) wasting huge amounts of their time, effort, attention, autonomy, and exposes them to STDs. Promiscuity is ok if you are honest about it and both people accept it, but it's the lies rather than the sleeping around that cause all the problems. Also, even totally honest promiscuity has problems - STD risks, jealousy, split resources if kids are involved. Personally I also think monogamy is a bit unrealistic for many - if you are in that group then please at least tell people up front before you deceive them.
Joe Normal Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I agree with OP in all but one point. Cheating is wrong because it typically leads to lying. What one doesn't know will not hurt anyone. But inevitably the partner will ask if you have ever cheated. And then you have committed a wrong. Arguably a victim-less wrong. A white lie. It's the partner finding out which causes the hurt. Wrong. For example, if I steal 80% of someone's life savings, they are wronged, even if they have not found out yet. Also, other people will find out, thus affecting your reputation and standing in the community, even if you yourself don't know it. Furthermore, cheating can cause the faithful person to get STDs, and thus exposes them to potentially fatal and incurable health problems. That's hardly victimless. And the deceived person is wasting huge emotional, time, and sometimes financial resources on the basis of a fraud. Would you spend years or even decades investing in a fraudulent deal? No, me neither, I'd consider it a serious crime.
Sanman Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Polyamory is a whole different thing from cheating. It a very different lifestyle and one that has many of its own problems. I was briefly in a polyamorous relationship and realized it is not for me. Jealousy and feelings of inadequacy always come up. Monogamy is not perfect, but it is the best solution I can think of for myself. One the reasons cheating is so attractive is that you get to enjoy what you want and not worry about your spouse finding another. However, to each his/her own. Just try and live your life with honesty and integrity.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 How would you feel if someone cheated on you? Betrayed, angry, lost, broken trust, that they are scum etc Okay ... I'm with you ... Ok let's explore that... Why do you feel that way? - because they broke the relationship contract, broke trust, hurt me etc - because i am jealous, i feel unloved, i have a lot of unanswered questions, i deserve better. - because i would never do that!! If I cheated it means i have no respect, consideration, care or love for my partner what so ever. Still following ... but starting to wonder why ... I would like to now correlate this with how you might feel about someone that cuts themselves... WTF????????? :D:D
Survivor12 Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Shadowofman, "Also, if you never promise to be monogamous, or simply plea the fifth on any such question then there is no fowl. Accuracy people. Accuracy in language." Since accuracy is important to you, perhaps you would like to edit this sentence to read: "Also, if you never promise to be monogamous, or simply PLEAD the fifth on any such question, then there is no FOUL."
phillyfan Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 I am a female and have cheated in most of my relationships, even on my soulmate. It took me a while to realise this, but cheating is not wrong, it is just frowned upon. You can still very much love and be in love with someone, be attracted to them emotionally and physically.... and have feelings and connections with other people. Love is constantly fluxuating!! I may love someone alot and then not and then love them again. It's natural in context! What's unnatural is this clinging, expectational view of what love and relationships should be. I believe it is society that has forced monogomy upon us. I do believe in the idea of having a main partner and I think for the most part, if you love someone - and you two are bestfriends and have respect and admiration for each other - you will return to them naturally and it will work. If not, then move on. What i think is unnatural the idea of not to being attracted to other people. It is so limiting, so naive and absurd. Not to mention it creates unnecessary built-up resentment and tensions in what should be a natural and beautiful relationship in the experience of life. As you can see, I'm not endorsing dishonesty. My message here is that honesty is simply the best way to live and love. I wish everyone here good luck in their journey of self-acceptance and love. Uh-huh. I think u mean that havin open relationships is cool, right? Thats fine. But lyin and cheatin? No way, that is a huge loser move.
whammy Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 well remember, she said that cheating isn't wrong. So I suppose hurting people isn't wrong. I'd like to see how many relationships with decent guys she'd have if she would tell them her philosophy up front while dating. If she were up front with this info, then all she would get is guys out for sex. Good men will avoid a "woman" like this. men cant really avoid "a woman" like this because thats how 99.9 percent of them are...
whammy Posted January 20, 2011 Posted January 20, 2011 and I agree with alot of what OP said and I have alot to say but aI dont feel like typing it all right now...so I will force my opinions on all of you later.
whammy Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 I am a female and have cheated in most of my relationships, even on my soulmate. It took me a while to realise this, but cheating is not wrong, it is just frowned upon. You can still very much love and be in love with someone, be attracted to them emotionally and physically.... and have feelings and connections with other people. Love is constantly fluxuating!! I may love someone alot and then not and then love them again. It's natural in context! What's unnatural is this clinging, expectational view of what love and relationships should be. I believe it is society that has forced monogomy upon us. I do believe in the idea of having a main partner and I think for the most part, if you love someone - and you two are bestfriends and have respect and admiration for each other - you will return to them naturally and it will work. If not, then move on. What i think is unnatural the idea of not to being attracted to other people. It is so limiting, so naive and absurd. Not to mention it creates unnecessary built-up resentment and tensions in what should be a natural and beautiful relationship in the experience of life. As you can see, I'm not endorsing dishonesty. My message here is that honesty is simply the best way to live and love. I wish everyone here good luck in their journey of self-acceptance and love. Personally, I cant be in a relationship without emotional monogamy. My girl cant be in love with anyone else...actually she cant even care about anyone else romantically and still be with me. My ego couldn't handle it...its just the way it is... I know it and there is no getting around it so I wont even try. I have to be the "big dog" in my own yard or im going to find another yard...actually I have to be the ONLY dog in my own yard. But with that said I believe in sexual freedom. I am sexually attracted to so many different types of women for so many different reasons that there is no way I can live my life without pursuing sex with them. And any man would be a fool to think that women dont think the same way about men. So my gf/wife can bang whoever she wants whenever she wants because I will do that same (well its not going a free-for-all anything...there would be tons of rules)
TLCbear Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 I am a female and have cheated in most of my relationships, even on my soulmate. It took me a while to realise this, but cheating is not wrong, it is just frowned upon. Cheating is wrong...it doesn't matter what type of cheating it is or whether someone other than yourself knows or not. If you cheat on a test, is that not wrong? If you cheat on your taxes, is that not wrong? If you happened to shortchange someone and keep the money, is that not wrong? Sure it is. Even if no one else knows, there are always two individuals who know...and that's you and the almighty. Anytime you have to sneak and do something, you know it's not a good thing to do. What's unnatural is this clinging, expectational view of what love and relationships should be. I believe it is society that has forced monogomy upon us. I do believe in the idea of having a main partner and I think for the most part, if you love someone - and you two are bestfriends and have respect and admiration for each other - you will return to them naturally and it will work. If not, then move on. In my opinion, I do believe monogomy is unnatural for us humans, but at the same time, we as humans, have a choice to be in a monogomy relationship or not. If you know you can't be faithful, don't get into a committed relationship or get married...or at least have the common decency to be upfront about it. Why lie, hid, or neglect to mention? What i think is unnatural the idea of not to being attracted to other people. Of course, it's unnatural, but just because you are attracted to other people, don't mean you have bed them. Being faithful is all about respect and having self control. For some it comes natural, but for most it doesn't. It's a skill that needs to be learned. As you can see, I'm not endorsing dishonesty. My message here is that honesty is simply the best way to live and love. I wish everyone here good luck in their journey of self-acceptance and love. Yes you are. Cheating and lying goes hand and hand. If you're honest, it's not cheating. Can't get on simpler than that.
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