Divorce debt sent him back to his wife after 3 years

[BambooSticks]

Folks, don't get too worked up over the "evil manipulative W" comment. Its not worth it and the OP is entitled to her feelings about the W, whether or not they have any basis in truth.

 

I had to go back and re-read the OP. I'm curious about a few things, OP.

 

You say you guys are long distance and only see each other every few months. And you mention that he asked your parents about marrying you.

 

But he "wrote" you to tell you that he's going home. And that, due to his debts and busy work schedule, that your contact with each other had dwindled.

 

Truthfully, I'm skeptical about his version of "going home" considering you haven't seen him in months and have no way of knowing really where he was living before he wrote you and told you he was going back.

 

I don't want to take creative license with your story, so please tell me if I'm wrong. Just that the re-reading seems to paint this as an internet relationship and that he could have presented himself however he wanted to with your inability to get a VISA.

 

Yes, it was an LDR with us seeing each other, staying at his, every few months. The last time I saw him physically was in November.

[BB07]

Yes, it was an LDR with us seeing each other, staying at his, every few months. The last time I saw him physically was in November.

 

 

Of course I'm cynical, but I have to ask. Are you absolutely sure this man was really separated? Perhaps he wasn't and you've been conned from day one??

Yes it does happen.

[whichwayisup]

Of course I'm cynical, but I have to ask. Are you absolutely sure this man was really separated? Perhaps he wasn't and you've been conned from day one??

Yes it does happen.

 

Agreeing here. I think that there is ALOT you do know know about this man and he's done alot of omitting and lying. You really don't know what is going on in his life when you aren't there. Last time you saw him was November?

 

Be angry at his wife, but be MORE angry at HIM. He's the one who is lying and manipulating to you, not his wife.

[NoIDidn't]

Yes, it was an LDR with us seeing each other, staying at his, every few months. The last time I saw him physically was in November.

 

So he didn't go to your country to see you? Was that because of his "debts" too?

 

I'm sure there was contact over the holidays, right?

 

I'm seeing red flags. Sorry, Bamboo.

[BambooSticks]

Firstly a recap of the situation:

- MM files for divorce 3 years ago and moves out of marital home.

- He proposes to OW (me) and maintains LDR, with quarterly visits back and forth, plus daily contact.

- BW contests the divorce, and refuses to sign documents to finalise divorce causing added financial strains, and continually asks him back.

- Kids turn away from him, hurting him greatly.

- He endures financial debt, mental, physical, emotional stress, starvation, in and out of hospital.

- His rent went up and he desperately tried to find a resolution, but no luck. He lost his second job and couldn't afford.

- He fired the lawyer last week, tried 2 more, and when told their retaining fees, he crumpled. He can't afford it anymore.

- He is begged by children and BW to come back.

- He drops the divorce (just announced) and "hatefully" returns, or is returning to the marital home.

- He ends us.

 

UPDATE:

- I must have sobbed for 36 hours straight. I emailed him a barrage of "how could you do this, not just to us, but to you". I've gone from shock, to sadness, to despair, anger, everything one goes through.

- He has replied that it's not just me he's hurt and betrayed, but he's killed and betrayed himself, as well. The walls caved in on him, he had to survive, he could see no end to the endless battle, and he resigned to a life of unhappiness. He is physically, financially and mentally drained. He said he's dying. He has to buckle down and do some f***ing sh** I don't want, live in a way that I don't want, be around things that I don't want, and worst of all, I hurt you. You were my only form of happiness, and I am resigned to a life of unhappiness now. I am so tired. Tired of working so hard, seeing hard-earned money just go down the drain. Tired of not getting anywhere with the divorce. Tired of trying and trying with no end in sight. I worked so hard for us, and I'm sorry, I was weak. I am drained and can't do it anymore. I was starving, no money for food, and I had to survive. It was my only option and the worst crime I have committed in my life, is that I have hurt you."

- My friend was livid and wrote him an email. She asked him on my behalf whether he'd reconciled with his wife. He said we were accusing him of things he had not done, and he would forever love only me. That brought me to peace, somehow.

 

I know I will go through moments of wanting to reach out to him. I know I will miss him incredibly and lose my sanity at times, and I appreciate all that he did to get to US. I also know that he is grieving too. He is in a place he does not want to be in. He is back to the hell he once knew, and if anything, I feel so sorry for him. All I want is his happiness and the knowing that he will get through this because he was so close to suicide. Divorce is hard and stressful and can lead some to devastating ends. He gave himself up and that's the saddest thing of all. I know where his heart is at right now, and I cry for him, too. He's in a place of utter sadness and desperation. A part of me feels he will do one of two things. 1) he will live his life in unhappiness, functioning like a robot devoid of all emotions, or 2) he will gain his strength and vigour back. What he endured with her before, he already knows she's still the same... He will put up with it for as long as he can, but he'll gain his bearings, get his spiritual, mental, physical strength back, come to his senses and rush out again.

 

No one should live like a slave without freedom, caged in a marriage because he couldn't get that divorce. I wish him the best for what ever his heart wants and needs, even if it's no longer me. I will not be intruding on his life, or his attempts at what he's doing now. As far as I'm concerned, he's now a married man again, and I must let him be. I am peace (for now) or denial, but I hope it remains this way, because when the despair comes, I just want to end it all.

[BambooSticks]

So he didn't go to your country to see you? Was that because of his "debts" too?

 

I'm sure there was contact over the holidays, right?

 

I'm seeing red flags. Sorry, Bamboo.

 

That's okay. Yes he's been here, and yes there was contact.

[BambooSticks]

Of course I'm cynical, but I have to ask. Are you absolutely sure this man was really separated? Perhaps he wasn't and you've been conned from day one??

Yes it does happen.

 

Yes, he definitely was... I stayed at his when I went there... and we'd webcam when not together.

[BambooSticks]

Agreeing here. I think that there is ALOT you do know know about this man and he's done alot of omitting and lying. You really don't know what is going on in his life when you aren't there. Last time you saw him was November?

 

Be angry at his wife, but be MORE angry at HIM. He's the one who is lying and manipulating to you, not his wife.

 

Okay. Thanks.

[jwi71]

- MM files for divorce 3 years ago and moves out of marital home.

 

Verify the status of this online. The case number is clearly and plainly listed on the first page of the lawsuit. Is it open? Active? In process?

 

- He proposes to OW (me) and maintains LDR, with quarterly visits back and forth, plus daily contact.

 

He sees you 4 times a year? I guess his finances weren't so bad after all.

 

- BW contests the divorce, and refuses to sign documents to finalise divorce causing added financial strains, and continually asks him back

 

This just plain stinks. And I mean in the bullshyte sense.

This is a contested Divorce and it does NOT require the wife's permission. Period. Its that effin' simple.

 

And when one party figures this out, they up and sign anyways because once a contested D is started it almost NEVER stops - especially after being separated for THREE years.

 

- Kids turn away from him, hurting him greatly.

 

Why? Do they know YOU exist?

 

- He endures financial debt, mental, physical, emotional stress, starvation, in and out of hospital.

 

And yet he can't up and leave to be with you. News flash, credit score is PER COUNTRY. Thats right, you can a zero credit rating here in the US and perfect in Japan. He can walk away and be scot effin' free - with YOU to boot. Of course, like NID brought up, he doesn't do that. Why?

- His rent went up and he desperately tried to find a resolution, but no luck. He lost his second job and couldn't afford.

 

How much did his rent go up? Like 2000000%? I rent an apartment and just re-leased it - my rent went up 30.00 a month. Get real.

- He fired the lawyer last week, tried 2 more, and when told their retaining fees, he crumpled. He can't afford it anymore.

 

But I he can afford to meet you.

- He is begged by children and BW to come back.

 

Huh? I thought they wanted nothing to do with him - in fact one refused to live with him. NOw they are begging to have him back? After THREE years? Nope...on the brighter side I have an ocean front house in Arizona I'll sell you cheap.

- He drops the divorce (just announced) and "hatefully" returns, or is returning to the marital home.

 

Riiiiiiiight. Of course, since you have seen the paperwork you can look up the case number online and verify this. Right?

- He ends us.

 

For reasons entirely different from what you believe.

 

Well, not much else to say really.

I'm sure he'll be back. Offer to meet somewhere secret from his W and kids I'm equally sure.

 

Sorry this happened to you but his story makes ZERO sense.

 

[BambooSticks]

Verify the status of this online. The case number is clearly and plainly listed on the first page of the lawsuit. Is it open? Active? In process?

 

- I tried to find it when you mentioned it the other day, but I couldn't. I paid one of those websites for a divorce record and they said they would get back to me, but haven't as yet.

 

 

 

He sees you 4 times a year? I guess his finances weren't so bad after all.

- I went to him mostly.

 

This is a contested Divorce and it does NOT require the wife's permission. Period. Its that effin' simple. And when one party figures this out, they up and sign anyways because once a contested D is started it almost NEVER stops - especially after being separated for THREE years.

- I've read that some can take up to 10 years if they can't be resolved. They couldn't come to an agreement.

 

Why? Do they know YOU exist?

- I think they might, but I think they turned away from him, because he turned away from them and their mother.

 

And yet he can't up and leave to be with you. News flash, credit score is PER COUNTRY. Thats right, you can a zero credit rating here in the US and perfect in Japan. He can walk away and be scot effin' free - with YOU to boot. Of course, like NID brought up, he doesn't do that. Why?

- I don't understand this. Could you explain it a bit more for me, please?

 

How much did his rent go up? Like 2000000%? I rent an apartment and just re-leased it - my rent went up 30.00 a month. Get real.

- Something like $100 or something.

 

But I he can afford to meet you.

- As I said, I mostly went to him.

 

Huh? I thought they wanted nothing to do with him - in fact one refused to live with him. NOw they are begging to have him back? After THREE years? Nope...on the brighter side I have an ocean front house in Arizona I'll sell you cheap.

- When he told them he was dropping the divorce, they hugged him and begged him back.

 

Riiiiiiiight. Of course, since you have seen the paperwork you can look up the case number online and verify this. Right?

- I didn't get the case number. I wish I had now. How do I look up the case online. I've tried, and would love to know.

 

For reasons entirely different from what you believe.

- Perhaps, so.

 

Well, not much else to say really. I'm sure he'll be back. Offer to meet somewhere secret from his W and kids I'm equally sure.

- Okay but I won't let that happen til he's completely free.

 

Sorry this happened to you but his story makes ZERO sense.

- Thank you, and yes. Does my head in, too. I know of the stress he was under, so I can see his point, but I don't feel I know the whole story re him and her.

 

Thank you for answering back so quickly and honestly. I appreciate it.

[BB07]

I'm with JW on a lot of the suspicions.

Bamboo........at least consider and investigate the possibility that you have been conned. LDR's give a lot more opportunity for people to lie about things.

 

Since you are new you don't know my story, but I too thought I was dating a separated man. It was a LDR, but yet he was someone I had known and been involved with previously, so never in a million years did I think he would lie and be able to pull off a con such as he did. He was married.......living away from his wife because of his work. It provided a very good cover for him and oh yeah he couldn't see me on the weekend because of that second job he was working (another lie) to pay all the bills for that evil wife of his who was sucking him dry. (another lie) He was a master at playing the victim and yes I see similarities in your story and mine. Maybe I'm projecting but maybe I'm not, you at least should consider that you might be dealing with someone who is not what he portrayed himself to be.

Just saying.............

[SunsetRed]

You can look up divorce filings by doing a name search on pipl.com as well.

 

Bamboo, I am sorry for your pain and for the loss of what you hoped for.

However, your story is helping me make peace with my own lost relationship and see it for what it really was.

 

My ex said the same thing, he hates being "back there", it makes him "sick" to think of sleeping with the wife after being with me...what's really sick is that he was probably sleeping with her the whole time we were together.

 

When my ex started saying "she (the wife) wants me back, all she wants is money and security but she's asking me to stop the divorce and come back to make the house payment" , I knew I needed to leave him even if he didn't leave me.

 

I do believe in karma and in what goes around comes around, and as soon as the wife wanted him back for whatever reason, I had to get out of the picture or I would end up experiencing a huge loss in my own life..a loss greater than the break up. Also, I truly don't want to be the primary reason anyone loses their house. If i did that, I end up losing my job, house or whatever it is that keeps me going.

 

My heart still aches for him and I play the Woulda Coulda Shoulda gave over and over again...yet I don't want him if he has to give up everything he has for me and if I have to spend the rest of my life competing with a wife.

[jwi71]

1) To get the status of his D, go online to his county's court website. Google the name of his city and you will be able to find the county that city is located. Then google for that <<county name>> court clerk. Look for civil or family court records (they are public and FREE). Search for his name. It should pop up. If not, get the phone number for the clerk and call and ask. They will gladly tell you what they find.

 

2) ok

 

3) Incorrect. Google <<his state>> and "contested divorce". It does take longer but, depending on circumstance, its virtually IMPOSSIBLE to stop. And living apart for three years and his engagement to you is PLENTY of reasons for a judge to grant the D w/o the W's approval. You cannot force someone to remain M to anyone. He is NOT honest here. I virtually promise it.

 

4) You are a secret still? Why? An A has ZERO impact on a D...especially since custody is NOT an issue here.

 

5) 100.00 broke the bank? That seems steep for an increase...but I live in Texas where rents/housing is cheap. In any case, on a percentage of income basis, that should be negligible. Landlords don't want to drive away tenants.

 

6) ok, you went to him. On a tourist visa no doubt. Did he ever go to you? Why didn;t he stay? He can literally rebuild from scratch with ZERO credit implications.

 

7) They hugged him back? Bullshyte. He's gone for THREE years and they hate him that entire time then poof, they hug him back? Nope.

 

8) Point one on how to look it up online.

 

9) I promise so.

 

10) Now YOU'RE not being honest. You are STILL having an A by secretly being in contact.

 

Nope...you don;t have the whole truth. The only person who does is the MM and they have a vested interest in NOT giving that out.

 

Just go NC and walk. He has all kinds of issues and YOU (or anyone really) can help him.

 

And thanks for understanding my style...blunt, sometimes harsh, but I'm on YOUR side.

[BambooSticks]

I'm with JW on a lot of the suspicions.

Bamboo........at least consider and investigate the possibility that you have been conned. LDR's give a lot more opportunity for people to lie about things.

 

Since you are new you don't know my story, but I too thought I was dating a separated man. It was a LDR, but yet he was someone I had known and been involved with previously, so never in a million years did I think he would lie and be able to pull off a con such as he did. He was married.......living away from his wife because of his work. It provided a very good cover for him and oh yeah he couldn't see me on the weekend because of that second job he was working (another lie) to pay all the bills for that evil wife of his who was sucking him dry. (another lie) He was a master at playing the victim and yes I see similarities in your story and mine. Maybe I'm projecting but maybe I'm not, you at least should consider that you might be dealing with someone who is not what he portrayed himself to be.

Just saying.............

 

He was definitely living in a separate home, but who knows what happened between them during those times.

[SunsetRed]

This thread is really helping me put my ex behind me. I see his lies when I see the exact same, almost word for word lies of other "separated" men.

 

The only way I could've held on to my debt strapped separated man, was to keep him like a caged animal in my tiny apt and support him while he supported the wife. We could have never got our own place and he could've never contributed to any place that was ours.

 

I never expected to be supported like the wife was, but I would have expected him to come up with his half of the rent, which he couldn't have done, due to giving everything to the wife. There'd be nothing I could do about it..legally the wife has a right to his finances and he very willingly wants to give it to her, no questions asked. The divorce wouldn't have happened either as he brought up excuse after excuse for delays.

 

Bamboo, you and I have dodged bullets by having our exes leave us.

 

Sad thing is, I've been dodging bullets my whole life...when I am going to find a relationship thats good for me?

[BambooSticks]

This thread is really helping me put my ex behind me. I see his lies when I see the exact same, almost word for word lies of other "separated" men.

 

The only way I could've held on to my debt strapped separated man, was to keep him like a caged animal in my tiny apt and support him while he supported the wife. We could have never got our own place and he could've never contributed to any place that was ours.

 

I never expected to be supported like the wife was, but I would have expected him to come up with his half of the rent, which he couldn't have done, due to giving everything to the wife. There'd be nothing I could do about it..legally the wife has a right to his finances and he very willingly wants to give it to her, no questions asked. The divorce wouldn't have happened either as he brought up excuse after excuse for delays.

 

Bamboo, you and I have dodged bullets by having our exes leave us.

 

Sad thing is, I've been dodging bullets my whole life...when I am going to find a relationship thats good for me?

 

I don't get it. How do people already in debts get out of a marriage? A friend of mine who went through a divorce told me, she just did what she could to get out, gave him everything. She still suffers from it financially, but only wishes she'd done it sooner.

 

How does one get out of a contested divorce when the other will not comply?

 

PS Im glad it's helping you, too.

Edited January 8, 2011 by BambooSticks

[SunsetRed]

Maybe it's different in other countries, but in the US you get out of a contested divorce by merely waiting the appropriate amt of time and then you sign the papers yourself.

 

If one spouse is arguing for money, the house, child support etc, the spouse who is initiating the divorce can still work all that out with a lawyer and can still get the divorce. Usually at some point, the other spouse will want to take part in any financial discussion because they know if the divorce is going to happen anyway, they may as well get their fair share.

 

But yes, at least in the US, if someone really wants a divorce to happen, it can happen.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't get it. How do people already in debts get out of a marriage? A friend of mine who went through a divorce told me, she just did what she could to get out, gave him everything. She still suffers from it financially, but only wishes she'd done it sooner.

 

How does one get out of a contested divorce when the other will not comply?

 

By pressing on with the divorce. Just like your friend "gave him everything" to get out, he could have done the same with his W if he really wanted out.

 

I think he's a con. And I'm sorry for that. For you and SunsetRed.

 

I think you have dodged a bullet, especially if you stop accepting his contact. I don't think he's being truthful to you. If he was only going home because of finances and his W understood that to be the case (I've known many that have had to do this, but continued their other Rs openly), I don't see why he needed to end things with you.

 

And if he went home and ended things with you, sounds like this has been in the works for awhile. But I'm sure he would never have told you that. The story you got was he tried to find a roommate, but couldn't so he had to go home. Now he has to stomach possibly sleeping with her, oh the horror.

 

This has been in the works for a while. He just finally found a way to let you down easy with it.

 

Side note: its pretty common for MM to claim financial problems with the OW when their W's are aware of the household finances. Its a way to get the OW to pay more for things than she would otherwise.

[BambooSticks]

Maybe it's different in other countries, but in the US you get out of a contested divorce by merely waiting the appropriate amt of time and then you sign the papers yourself.

 

- That's what I thought, too. Could he be in one of those states where it is not so. Otherwise, why do some divorces drag on and on for so long because one refuses to comply?

[NoIDidn't]

- That's what I thought, too. Could he be in one of those states where it is not so. Otherwise, why do some divorces drag on and on for so long because one refuses to comply?

 

Because someone is lying.

 

My friend's H refused to sign the papers when she served him. So she had to wait an additional year, go to the clerk's office and sign them. And she was divorced. Nothing he could do about it.

 

Someone is lying. And because you likely haven't spoken to his W, I'm sure its not her.

[BambooSticks]

...when I am going to find a relationship thats good for me?

 

Yes, I know what you mean exactly. I've been there too, but I'm not going to have anymore relationships, I hope. I just don't want to and will live life alone, no husband, no best friend, no children. That's alright with me. It's hard though when everyone around you is married and raising a family. But if others can do it, I will too. I pray I will be true to myself.

[BambooSticks]

Maybe it's different in other countries, but in the US you get out of a contested divorce by merely waiting the appropriate amt of time and then you sign the papers yourself.

 

If one spouse is arguing for money, the house, child support etc, the spouse who is initiating the divorce can still work all that out with a lawyer and can still get the divorce. Usually at some point, the other spouse will want to take part in any financial discussion because they know if the divorce is going to happen anyway, they may as well get their fair share.

 

But yes, at least in the US, if someone really wants a divorce to happen, it can happen.

 

What you are referring to is a divorce by default? I don't think that can occur in his state. I wish it could have.

[BambooSticks]

By pressing on with the divorce. Just like your friend "gave him everything" to get out, he could have done the same with his W if he really wanted out.

 

I think he's a con. And I'm sorry for that. For you and SunsetRed.

 

I think you have dodged a bullet, especially if you stop accepting his contact. I don't think he's being truthful to you. If he was only going home because of finances and his W understood that to be the case (I've known many that have had to do this, but continued their other Rs openly), I don't see why he needed to end things with you.

 

And if he went home and ended things with you, sounds like this has been in the works for awhile. But I'm sure he would never have told you that. The story you got was he tried to find a roommate, but couldn't so he had to go home. Now he has to stomach possibly sleeping with her, oh the horror.

 

This has been in the works for a while. He just finally found a way to let you down easy with it.

 

Side note: its pretty common for MM to claim financial problems with the OW when their W's are aware of the household finances. Its a way to get the OW to pay more for things than she would otherwise.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't think he had it in him to press on with the divorce. During the last few weeks particularly, he was under immense pressure. Needing to find new home and new job. He felt like everything and everyone was against in, and gave up. Too soon, I think. But he tried hard for 3 years.

 

I don't know how much he reconciled with his wife. He says he's back for the financial reason and will be living in a state of hell, but to drop the divorce at the same time for all time is a concern, particularly when he could've just postponed it til he got his bearings back.

 

" This has been in the works for a while." How do you determine this? It was only a month ago he was notified of his rent increase, and job loss, and hospital bills. To me, he had no other option and he succumbed.

 

He wouldn't let me pay for a thing, or even any debt he'd incur if we got to be together in the future.

[BambooSticks]

Because someone is lying.

 

My friend's H refused to sign the papers when she served him. So she had to wait an additional year, go to the clerk's office and sign them. And she was divorced. Nothing he could do about it.

 

Someone is lying. And because you likely haven't spoken to his W, I'm sure its not her.

 

Thanks for the info re your friend. Are you referring to a divorce by default. Does this apply for every US state? I think I read somewhere that it's not available in every state. I've brought this up with him before, and he said something, can't remember what, maybe that minors were involved.

[BambooSticks]

1) To get the status of his D, go online to his county's court website. Google the name of his city and you will be able to find the county that city is located. Then google for that <<county name>> court clerk. Look for civil or family court records (they are public and FREE). Search for his name. It should pop up. If not, get the phone number for the clerk and call and ask. They will gladly tell you what they find.

- I just did a search on Intelius and they say there is no civil cases, and that they may be wrong. I found his county court clerk and will have to call. I tried to find a free public report but don't think it's available in his state. I will call the clerk. I feel like I'm snooping, but oh well.

 

2) ok

 

3) Incorrect. Google <<his state>> and "contested divorce". It does take longer but, depending on circumstance, its virtually IMPOSSIBLE to stop. And living apart for three years and his engagement to you is PLENTY of reasons for a judge to grant the D w/o the W's approval. You cannot force someone to remain M to anyone. He is NOT honest here. I virtually promise it.

- He said that he wanted to keep us secret so as not to affect his "no fault" divorce. He felt he'd get nothing back if it was made aware of. His lawyer knew, though.

 

4) You are a secret still? Why? An A has ZERO impact on a D...especially since custody is NOT an issue here.

- see point 3.

 

5) 100.00 broke the bank? That seems steep for an increase...but I live in Texas where rents/housing is cheap. In any case, on a percentage of income basis, that should be negligible. Landlords don't want to drive away tenants.

- I believe him when he spoke of the financial stresses. He showed me a paycheck previously and explained what was taken out. Left him with pennies.

 

6) ok, you went to him. On a tourist visa no doubt. Did he ever go to you? Why didn;t he stay? He can literally rebuild from scratch with ZERO credit implications.

- Yes, I did, and yes he did. He tried to find work here, but hastily. We needed to find him a job that would sponsor him and none eventuated.

 

7) They hugged him back? Bullshyte. He's gone for THREE years and they hate him that entire time then poof, they hug him back? Nope.

- Though he was gone from their home, and never saw them due to his workload, he still saw them now and again, or when they dropped by.

 

8) Point one on how to look it up online.

 

9) I promise so.

 

10) Now YOU'RE not being honest. You are STILL having an A by secretly being in contact.

- I disagree but appreciate your thoughts. It's just the final this is what happened. Beyond this point, there will be no contact from his part or mine.

 

Nope...you don;t have the whole truth. The only person who does is the MM and they have a vested interest in NOT giving that out.

- I agree.

 

Just go NC and walk. He has all kinds of issues and YOU (or anyone really) can help him.

- Totally right and will do.

 

And thanks for understanding my style...blunt, sometimes harsh, but I'm on YOUR side.

- No, thank you for your thoughts. Blunt is good and honest. Tells me the things I need to hear and consider.