Update: We're "together" now, but they're still "friends"

[blinded_27]

Okay... it's been a while and a TON has happened. I'll try to keep it short because I have a mini-rant here and I'd love your opinions.

 

So MM has been separated from the wife for a few months now (since October I think) and after a LOT of back and forth and confusion on his end, he finally made the decision that he wanted to be with me.

 

Whether or not that decision was because his wife wants to end it with him, although very likely, I'm not sure... regardless, things were going great.

 

Him and I get along REALLY well. We have a ton in common and never argue. EXCEPT for when it's about his wife.... which always ends up in huge messy blow outs and a ton of arguing. After him telling me he had no reason to be talking to her anymore, and finding out afterwards that he's been constantly talking and texting her, I finally had it. She didn't know about me, and he was keeping me a secret from everyone still. It was driving me crazy. I said she NEEDS to know about me, because I don't know if she still thinks it can work between them... I said either you do it, or I will.

 

I needed to know because if he was still lying to me, and I am interfering with her hopes of trying to make it work with him, I didn't want to be a part of it. When he refused to tell her and said he'll do it "when the time is right", I did something crazy and texted her and asked her if they had any intention of working things out today.

 

She was (rightfully) pissed, and said that their marriage is over, but they are still great friends. (And added in to never f'n text her ever again.... well duhhh hahha). She told him immediately, and he was pissed. Later this evening he said he was going to her place to talk to her about what happened.

 

Fine. I was cool with that. But he's been there for 4 FREAKIN HOURS and ignoring my texts and calls. I finally hear from him and he says "he's not done yet" and he'll leave when he's ready. Apparently she cut his hair for him and they went to look at cars (hers is busted)... I'm sorry but those are couple things to do. I asked him to please just come home to me and he said no, not until he's done.

 

Okay, am I wrong here to be INSANELY upset that they are such good friends and that he could quite possibly be hanging out with her like this regularly, DESPITE my feelings about it? He knows it hurts me... he says he cares but if he did he would respect how I feel about this.

 

He refuses to give her up as a friend. And I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable or if he is.

 

Anyway uuhhh long story short for tonight, I called him an a-hole and slapped him REALLY hard and stormed off I may have just screwed everything up for us by doing that. I don't know where to go from here...

[bentnotbroken]

Why don't you trust that he isn't doing anything wrong, anything to hurt you? Didn't he choose you? Aren't you comfortable with who he is?

[BB07]

A lot of red flags blinded......his refusal to tell her about you, his insistence at being "friends" and.......... I wouldn't buy that friend stuff. He is still waffling between both of you even though he moved out. He is SHOWING you by his actions that she has priority.

From the outside looking in.........he is NOT done with his marriage, not by a long shot.

I'm sorry if my words hurt you, but you need to face the truth.

[carhill]

I would support the advice of OWoman and similar postings in your other prior thread. *Actions*

 

When the divorce docket shows 'marriage ends on (date)', then you can be together. Up until then, especially in light of this ongoing 'friendship' (something I never had with my exW and, yeah, I was a MM) with his wife, stay away.

 

And no more battery. All that will do is get you fingerprinted at the police station. No stalking either.

[blinded_27]

I was almost feeling sorry for you up until this part:

 

This is wrong on so many levels. If he did this to you you would be screaming bloody murder, and rightfully so. You are hands down in the wrong, I would find the use of physical force to be completely unforgivable.

Tell me about it. Don't think I don't feel horrible.... I know it was a psycho move. Man I was just SO angry when he was telling me to my face "when I'm done I'll leave". Major rage there :/

 

A lot of red flags blinded......his refusal to tell her about you, his insistence at being "friends" and.......... I wouldn't buy that friend stuff. He is still waffling between both of you even though he moved out. He is SHOWING you by his actions that she has priority.

From the outside looking in.........he is NOT done with his marriage, not by a long shot.

I'm sorry if my words hurt you, but you need to face the truth.

Your words don't hurt, they are truth... truth I think I'm already aware of, but am scared to admit... mostly because he was being so insistent. He keeps saying "nothing will happen nothing is happening with us anymore".. and to hear it directly from her made me believe it 100%. I'm just not sure though. I don't know why I even want to believe him...

 

I would support the advice of OWoman and similar postings in your other prior thread. *Actions*

 

When the divorce docket shows 'marriage ends on (date)', then you can be together. Up until then, especially in light of this ongoing 'friendship' (something I never had with my exW and, yeah, I was a MM) with his wife, stay away.

 

And no more battery. All that will do is get you fingerprinted at the police station. No stalking either.

I tried this, this is how it all started. I told him we were not going to speak until he at least had the separation papers in hand. He was so sure this is what he wanted. Now he's worried about her feelings. There always seems to be an excuse. ugh.

 

Granted, I am really good friends with my ex boyfriend of 5 years. We get along great and there are NO lingering feelings between us whatsoever. So I know there's definitely a possibility that ex's can remain friends, but the only difference is I had 6 months to get over him. He hasn't been alone or had a grieving period yet.

 

And deal, no battery... or stalking.

[whichwayisup]

He is separated, not divorced.

 

You have trust issues and you have been pushing him too much, instead of just taking things slowly and let you two become a couple when the timing is better, you created all this by going ahead and contacting his (ex)wife. Sorry that you're hurting but he told he'd handle it on his time frame, yet you butted in and did something behind his back.

 

You are jealous and hurting, obviously..Telling him he's an ahole is one thing, but smacking him across the face is another. You aren't his wife, you don't own him and your reaction was uncalled for. You acted like the jealous other woman completely.

 

Give him time and space to cool off and let him contact you. DO NOT call him, check up on him and please, do not call his wife. Your behaviour probably freaked him out. take this time to figure out how to handle your jealously and decide if this guy is worth all the drama. He isn't willing to end a friendship with his wife, even though they are separated, either accept it or maybe it's time for you to walk away and work on yourself.

[whichwayisup]

Tell me about it. Don't think I don't feel horrible.... I know it was a psycho move. Man I was just SO angry when he was telling me to my face "when I'm done I'll leave". Major rage there :/

 

 

Your words don't hurt, they are truth... truth I think I'm already aware of, but am scared to admit... mostly because he was being so insistent. He keeps saying "nothing will happen nothing is happening with us anymore".. and to hear it directly from her made me believe it 100%. I'm just not sure though. I don't know why I even want to believe him...

 

 

I tried this, this is how it all started. I told him we were not going to speak until he at least had the separation papers in hand. He was so sure this is what he wanted. Now he's worried about her feelings. There always seems to be an excuse. ugh.

 

Granted, I am really good friends with my ex boyfriend of 5 years. We get along great and there are NO lingering feelings between us whatsoever. So I know there's definitely a possibility that ex's can remain friends, but the only difference is I had 6 months to get over him. He hasn't been alone or had a grieving period yet.

And deal, no battery... or stalking.

 

You aren't letting him! He needs to grieve this his own way and until they are divorced, and sort stuff out, they will be talking.

 

It hasn't been that long and feelings don't just up and go away. They shared a life together, friends and family, so to just say goodbye and never speak again isn't going to happen as you would like it to. It has to be on his time frame. Going back into NC mode may be your best option right now.

 

PS Sorry that I came off harsh in my previous response to you.

[Spices]

I agree with the above post. I think you should stay out of it &be more understanding. You should allow him grieve & keep her as a friend, for now. Making a big scene of things isn't going to help anything in the long run. Be confident in yourself & don't show possessive behavior.

[blinded_27]

You aren't letting him! He needs to grieve this his own way and until they are divorced, and sort stuff out, they will be talking.

 

It hasn't been that long and feelings don't just up and go away. They shared a life together, friends and family, so to just say goodbye and never speak again isn't going to happen as you would like it to. It has to be on his time frame. Going back into NC mode may be your best option right now.

 

PS Sorry that I came off harsh in my previous response to you.

 

He is separated, not divorced.

 

You have trust issues and you have been pushing him too much, instead of just taking things slowly and let you two become a couple when the timing is better, you created all this by going ahead and contacting his (ex)wife. Sorry that you're hurting but he told he'd handle it on his time frame, yet you butted in and did something behind his back.

 

You are jealous and hurting, obviously..Telling him he's an ahole is one thing, but smacking him across the face is another. You aren't his wife, you don't own him and your reaction was uncalled for. You acted like the jealous other woman completely.

 

Give him time and space to cool off and let him contact you. DO NOT call him, check up on him and please, do not call his wife. Your behaviour probably freaked him out. take this time to figure out how to handle your jealously and decide if this guy is worth all the drama. He isn't willing to end a friendship with his wife, even though they are separated, either accept it or maybe it's time for you to walk away and work on yourself.

 

No hard feelings, I appreciate all advice.

 

Yeah I tried to leave him to do his own thing. He was SO persistant. I'm not sure if you've seen some of my other posts but he waits at my door and cries to me begging me to take him back. I don't see why it has to be all on his terms when he's the one who begged me to take him back and that he's so sure this time. So all I wanted was a compromise from him. Either he tells her about me so we can save future confusion for the both of us, or he leaves her alone for a while. These were my conditions if he wanted to be with me so badly. But he kept saying "when the time is right" which is fine, but knowing him, that probably would never happen. So I warned him I would tell her. And there it is. She was surprisingly understanding. She sent me a text afterwards saying she understands why I'm untrusting of him and that she would have done the exact same thing.

 

Also, it's not that they're talking to "sort" things out, they have to wait a year before they can officially get divorced so that won't be until September. He just wants to be her best friend and hang out with her alone whenever he pleases. That is what bugs me cuz everytime I allowed him to do that in the past he's gone back to her.

 

He's already contacted me actually. I apologized for the old fashioned (and really wrong) slappage across the face....he said he deserved it (he said something really crappy to me just before i did that which i won't post here). Anyway he's trying to justify spending time with her like that right now. I'm trying to get him to see my point of view where if it was me hanging out with some guy and ignoring his calls he would be even more raging than I.

 

I'm not saying he needs to cut her out altogether, but privately, one on one, without me having any way of reaching him after everything we've been through and the fact that he knows I still have trust issues with him is not right in my books. I would never do that to him, and I have plenty of available male friends... I just wouldn't want him to feel jealous or threatened, the way I am right now

Edited January 6, 2011 by blinded_27

[OWoman]

I disagree with those who say you should back off and allow him to be friends with her for now. If you are "together", he needs to respect your feelings on this - or tell you outright that he won't / can't, leaving you the choice of dumping him and finding someone who WILL prioritise you and care about how you feel, and make you secure, or accepting him on his terms and accepting that you will in all likelihood never have the R you want with him as he will continue to call all of the shots.

 

People who love each other do not treat each other so badly, ignoring their loved one's insecurity and deceiving them about continued prioritisation of someone supposedly in their past. That suggests an unhealthy amount of "unfinished business" and an unwillingness to prioritise you - his current and future partner - over his past partner. I would take that as a huge red flag, and I would walk, myself, but you may consider him worth fighting for and may decide to give him a chance to prove himself... in which case I'd make the conditions very clear: what contact (if any) you're prepared to tolerate between them, and under what conditions. Anything else, and he's history.

 

Unless, of course, you're prepared to accept whatever treatment he dishes out to you, in which case you're starting off on the right foot.

 

Frankly, any guy who disrespected me in the way that this guy is treating you would have been history long ago, and while I don't condone physical violence under any circumstances, I can certainly understand the levels of frustration his behaviour must have caused in you. Do you really think he is worth putting up with all of this? If so, when is he actually going to start showing some of that worth?

[Fieldsofgold]

I hate to sound cliche - but . . . He cheated on her with you. Why do you think he won't cheat on you with her? Some men always want the woman they don't have.

 

I agree with OWoman. If he is supposedly "with" you, his actions are waaaay out of line. I also think if you push him to choose, he'll leave you. Your choices are to dump him, lesson learned, and move on. Or learn to enjoy being a door mat.

 

You do have to keep in mind, you are not the first woman he has treated this way. He did some form of it to his wife, first, to be with you. Now he's doing it to you, to be with her.

 

Seems like a pattern of his. My xH was that way. Couldn't stand me until he was married to his OW. Then wanted "to be friends with me," or so he told his OWnowW -- while telling me he wanted to divorce her and re-marry me. He repeated this pattern through OW/W #7. By that, I mean that each time he married, he got involved with an OW. Each time, he divorced his W to marry his current OW. (I was the only one he married who was not his OW first.) Each time, he wanted to "remain friends with" his xW's (who had all been his OW at one time.). What he meant by "be friends," was FWB, but of course, he never told that part. But we had a sort of xWives club for a while, and pooled info. Ya know

 

He's in his late 60's now, and nothing's changed.

 

Something to think about.

 

Good luck.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Fieldsofgold

[blinded_27]

Owoman, Your post was GREATLY appreciated. I saved it in my phone as a reference because there is so much in there I wanted to say to him. Absolutely he should have been history LONG ago. And boy did I ever try. I drove 5 hours 4 weekends in a row before the holidays to be in my hometown and close to family, JUST to get away from him. Is he worth it, I'm really still trying to figure this out. Like I mentioned before, hearing that the marriage is OVER from HER changes things a lot.

 

Fieldsofgold, wow... I am amazed at your story... I had no idea, I can't even begin to imagine what that must have felt like. I think it's fantastic that you're here to help us "noobs" through all this with all your experience!!! The same thought runs through my head ALL the time... once a cheater always a cheater. I call him on that A LOT, and use that to explain why I'm so afraid of him hanging out with his wife again... I just asked him today during another long conversation we had about all of this. I said something along the lines of, "you used 'just talking' to justify spending time with me to her, and you'll use it again with another woman". I'll admit, I really do believe him when he says he does not want to go through this mess again. Maybe I'm too naive... but I know he is feeling remorse (finally) for his actions. I think only time will tell... whether I even get that far with him, I have no idea... I think it's worth a shot....

 

[blinded_27]

Okay so another update.

 

We spoke today, for quite a while... (via text, we're both at work lol... super productive as per usual)... he apologized for everything that happened. I was so mad, I said he has no idea what he's really apologizing for and that he's just saying sorry for the sake of saying sorry.

 

After talking for a while I found out quite a bit about what went on with the conversation between him and his wife last night.

 

One thing that surprised me was when he was leaving, she supposedly said to him if he really wanted to be with me, and it meant not seeing her anymore, she would be okay with it. I really didn't believe it at first, but he told me about how she was listing things to him that made their relationship fail, and that he needs to avoid doing these things with me. She also said she wasn't mad that I texted her... (at first she was). But told him the same thing she told me afterwards, that she probably would have done the same. I wasn't rude to her in any way, I apologized to her a lot and told her I was just doing it to make sure we weren't going to end up in the same place as before.... neither of us knowing whats going on and believing it was going to work out with him.

 

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be seeing him tonight, I appreciate all the advice about boundaries, I'm going to have a long talk with him about this. I'm willing to test this out for a while, set some boundaries, see how willing he is to accept them and if he can follow through. As long as it's "business only" and no long dinners and evenings together, I think I can accept that.

Edited January 6, 2011 by blinded_27

[jwi71]

Demand access to his text messages. The phone company can provide them provided an account holder makes the request. Make that a condition of his "return".

 

If he has nothing to hide then this shouldn't be a problem.

 

And, if he was lying to you about contacting her - then he isn't done with the M and you are the consolation prize. Him PROVING that the txt were about D would completely invalidate this however. I'd ask. NO, I'd demand it. It IS your right to do so.

 

So what will you do when he says some version of "no"?

 

Quick...whats his case number in family court?

 

Honestly...you may be better served in infidelity.

[blinded_27]

Demand access to his text messages. The phone company can provide them provided an account holder makes the request. Make that a condition of his "return".

 

If he has nothing to hide then this shouldn't be a problem.

 

He actually has been allowing me access to his phone. I rarely look at it because I want to know I can trust him... sadly, a few times in my moments of weakness I did sneak a peek... but he says he has nothing to hide and leaves his phone in the open for me.

 

And, if he was lying to you about contacting her - then he isn't done with the M and you are the consolation prize. Him PROVING that the txt were about D would completely invalidate this however. I'd ask. NO, I'd demand it. It IS your right to do so.

This does concern me slightly. I question whether or not he's with me for the right reasons. Another conversation we might have to have.. phew we're going to be doing A LOT of talking... I'm usually so casual and laid back in relationships.. first one I'm so uptight!!!

 

Quick...whats his case number in family court?

hahahha Well in Canada you have to be separated for a year before you can divorce. Paperwork starts in September. Otherwise if they want to do infidelity, they have to come up with $1000 somehow. With neither of them able to get a credit card (hahah i swear to god it's true I was there when he tried) and the amount of debt they're in, and with her car recently exploding, they're okay with waiting out the next 8 months. I will be too as soon as he gets the separation papers

[redcurls]

hahahha Well in Canada you have to be separated for a year before you can divorce. Paperwork starts in September. Otherwise if they want to do infidelity, they have to come up with $1000 somehow. With neither of them able to get a credit card (hahah i swear to god it's true I was there when he tried) and the amount of debt they're in, and with her car recently exploding, they're okay with waiting out the next 8 months. I will be too as soon as he gets the separation papers

 

Are you sure you want to build a future with someone who is in such deep financial trouble? Money isn't everything but how much of a chance will your relationship have with him being so encumbered by debt? I donno. If I were you I would think long and hard about this. I think that him being friends or nor with W should be the least of your concerns.

[blinded_27]

Are you sure you want to build a future with someone who is in such deep financial trouble? Money isn't everything but how much of a chance will your relationship have with him being so encumbered by debt? I donno. If I were you I would think long and hard about this. I think that him being friends or nor with W should be the least of your concerns.

 

ooohhh yes have I ever thought about that too. I don't really want to post all his financial burdens on here but I know in under 2 years he will have paid off all his consolidated debt and car. He's living like a college kid right now hahahah but he works hard having 2 jobs and trying to keep on top of things. He isn't lazy by any means, so I have no concerns about our possible future financial situation.

[whichwayisup]

 

 

hahahha Well in Canada you have to be separated for a year before you can divorce. Paperwork starts in September. Otherwise if they want to do infidelity, they have to come up with $1000 somehow. With neither of them able to get a credit card (hahah i swear to god it's true I was there when he tried) and the amount of debt they're in, and with her car recently exploding, they're okay with waiting out the next 8 months. I will be too as soon as he gets the separation papers

 

Are you 100% sure about this? or is this what he has told you.

[Ellin]

Okay... it's been a while and a TON has happened. I'll try to keep it short because I have a mini-rant here and I'd love your opinions.

 

So MM has been separated from the wife for a few months now (since October I think) and after a LOT of back and forth and confusion on his end, he finally made the decision that he wanted to be with me.

 

Whether or not that decision was because his wife wants to end it with him, although very likely, I'm not sure... regardless, things were going great.

 

Him and I get along REALLY well. We have a ton in common and never argue. EXCEPT for when it's about his wife.... which always ends up in huge messy blow outs and a ton of arguing. After him telling me he had no reason to be talking to her anymore, and finding out afterwards that he's been constantly talking and texting her, I finally had it. She didn't know about me, and he was keeping me a secret from everyone still. It was driving me crazy. I said she NEEDS to know about me, because I don't know if she still thinks it can work between them... I said either you do it, or I will.

 

I needed to know because if he was still lying to me, and I am interfering with her hopes of trying to make it work with him, I didn't want to be a part of it. When he refused to tell her and said he'll do it "when the time is right", I did something crazy and texted her and asked her if they had any intention of working things out today.

 

She was (rightfully) pissed, and said that their marriage is over, but they are still great friends. (And added in to never f'n text her ever again.... well duhhh hahha). She told him immediately, and he was pissed. Later this evening he said he was going to her place to talk to her about what happened.

 

Fine. I was cool with that. But he's been there for 4 FREAKIN HOURS and ignoring my texts and calls. I finally hear from him and he says "he's not done yet" and he'll leave when he's ready. Apparently she cut his hair for him and they went to look at cars (hers is busted)... I'm sorry but those are couple things to do. I asked him to please just come home to me and he said no, not until he's done.

 

Okay, am I wrong here to be INSANELY upset that they are such good friends and that he could quite possibly be hanging out with her like this regularly, DESPITE my feelings about it? He knows it hurts me... he says he cares but if he did he would respect how I feel about this.

 

He refuses to give her up as a friend. And I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable or if he is.

 

Anyway uuhhh long story short for tonight, I called him an a-hole and slapped him REALLY hard and stormed off I may have just screwed everything up for us by doing that. I don't know where to go from here...

 

I think that if they are really only friends, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

You say that if he respected your feelings he wouldn't be seeing her, but it works both ways. He might say that if you respected his feelings you would not forbid him to keep in touch with a person who was such a huge part of his life.

 

You seem to be very insecure about your R with him and his feelings for you, comparing to his feelings for his W. This is understandable, as you had to "compete" with her and it must have caused you a great deal of upset and perhaps because things are still quite fragile between the two of you, but after he CHOSE you over her, and if he did, she is the one who's lost here.

 

I can understand that he still cares about her and doesn't want to abandon her completely.

 

The way this has escalated probably won't do you any favors. It will put him between a rock and a hard place - wanting to do what you expect of him but not wanting to hurt his (x?)W any more than he already has.

 

I think it would be better if you could relax and trust him more and most importantly have more confidence in yourself as a woman who deserves the love of her man and doesn't have to worry about it too much.

 

I know people who cannot tolerate their OH being in touch with exes, but I personally don't like to be controlled and limited in a R, and if I had a friendship with an x I would expect my SO to trust me and not try to stop me from contacing my friend - to a reasonable extent.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Ellin

[2sunny]

you have a royal cake eater.

 

a cake eater who likes to manipulate and sit on the fence.

 

nothing has changed - except the roles that the women now have reversed.

 

YOU can change that.

 

step away from the chaos = until the divorce is FINAL. then and only then - will you actually know that he is an available man who can offer you what an available can offer.

 

since he insists on being tied to his W - there is nothing you can do except step away... unless you allow him to continue by staying involved - while he smiles and disrespects and disregards you in every way - while he sits on the fence.

 

if you want life to look different - then you must make the change to make that happen...

[BB07]

I think that if they are really only friends, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

You say that if he respected your feelings he wouldn't be seeing her, but it works both ways. He might say that if you respected his feelings you would not forbid him to keep in touch with a person who was such a huge part of his life.

 

You seem to be very insecure about your R with him and his feelings for you, comparing to his feelings for his W. This is understandable, as you had to "compete" with her and it must have caused you a great deal of upset and perhaps because things are still quite fragile between the two of you, but after he CHOSE you over her, and if he did, she is the one who's lost here.

 

I can understand that he still cares about her and doesn't want to abandon her completely.

 

The way this has escalated probably won't do you any favors. It will put him between a rock and a hard place - wanting to do what you expect of him but not wanting to hurt his (x?)W any more than he already has.

 

I think it would be better if you could relax and trust him more and most importantly have more confidence in yourself as a woman who deserves the love of her man and doesn't have to worry about it too much.

 

I know people who cannot tolerate their OH being in touch with exes, but I personally don't like to be controlled and limited in a R, and if I had a friendship with an x I would expect my SO to trust me and not try to stop me from contacing my friend - to a reasonable extent.

 

Ellin, I think your advice is great for someone who was not in a affair triangle, but in this situation I disagree as it encourages her to stick her head in the sand and just trust him. Her AP has already proven he isn't exactly a man that can be trusted 100%. I also disagree that he has "choosen" her. Sounds like some cake eating to me, although I might be wrong.

 

I think if she is going to proceed, she needs to be cautious and not blindly trust this man. If I were her, I'd expect him to earn her trust.

[carhill]

Has he formalized, in writing, the beginning date of separation? As separate habitation and/or court action isn't required for separation, he and his W could make up a separation date a year or more ago and proceed directly to minutes of settlement. Have you seen the formal separation documents? All of their issues can be settled and incorporated into the minutes of settlement agreement prior to the year clock running and then it's merely a formality. This is similar to how the six-month 'cooling off' period works here in Cali. We had most of the filings done prior to the period end but a judgment couldn't be issued until it ran.

 

If MM and his W are amicable, the minutes of settlement will evidently satisfy the statutes and no court action is needed. This is similar to my exW and I signing a MSA (marital settlement agreement) and requesting a judgment by mail. The difference is we had a CFL# (docket number) for all the filings and this was trackable at the courthouse and online. In Canada, absent formal court action, the process is a bit more nebulous.

 

I'd draft a letter to my wife, spelling out the breakdown of the marriage and requesting a separation as of (date) and getting the document served via certified mail or method of process. The sheriff served me. This does two things. It puts the separation date on the 'record', as well as provides you with notice of intent. You can see that the MM is serious about moving forward with the divorce.

 

FWIW, this separation can be finalized and exist for years without a divorce ever being granted. The parties can be legally separate and the divorce action only required for them to legally marry again.

 

I personally think they'd be foolish to pursue an infidelity path, since it means court and much higher costs and likely longer timeframes than a year. Work it out, finalize it and move on.

 

This is the kind of talk I had with my 'friend' while my wife and I were divorcing. She was fully disclosed and saw consistent tone and action. That's because I respected her. Things didn't work out between us but I'd take exactly the same actions if I had to do it all over again. Hope your MM respects you. Take care

[jwi71]

He actually has been allowing me access to his phone. I rarely look at it because I want to know I can trust him... sadly, a few times in my moments of weakness I did sneak a peek... but he says he has nothing to hide and leaves his phone in the open for me.

 

Then demand the text messages. Can't hurt right?

Look at it this way...you would have verifiable, undeniable, black and white proof and your mind can be at ease.

 

Or not. It is, of course, up to you.

 

This does concern me slightly. I question whether or not he's with me for the right reasons. Another conversation we might have to have.. phew we're going to be doing A LOT of talking... I'm usually so casual and laid back in relationships.. first one I'm so uptight!!!

 

I understand. A's do that to people. And because can ONLY exist with lies and secrecy it causes you stress. One way to mitigate it is to get undeniable actions that what he says is true. Trust is the key to forming healthy loving R's...and A starts out with some readily apparent behaviors that weaken this. It takes DOUBLE effort to get to a healthy place.

 

 

hahahha Well in Canada you have to be separated for a year before you can divorce. Paperwork starts in September. Otherwise if they want to do infidelity, they have to come up with $1000 somehow. With neither of them able to get a credit card (hahah i swear to god it's true I was there when he tried) and the amount of debt they're in, and with her car recently exploding, they're okay with waiting out the next 8 months. I will be too as soon as he gets the separation papers

 

Phew...after I posted I was worried it was too harsh. I say that as filing for D is a verifiable and undeniable action towards D.

 

And in Canada you can file ANYTIME for D AFTER separation. It will not be granted until after one year though. If you don't believe me read up on the Divorce Act and its three requirements for D. Its readily available online. And obviously if you REALLY want to know...call a lawyer (I could be wrong after all - but don't think so). That quick 5 minute call will likely be a freebie from him/her as its such a simple and basic question.

 

So...ask him to file NOW. Another great action he can take.

[2sunny]

to me- his actions give evidence that he's wanting to keep you both hanging on... while he does nothing except work you both for his benefit.

 

there is NOTHING loving about what he is DOING. it only serves his own selfish needs for validation and insecurity about his fear of being alone = which being alone for a good long while would actually be the best thing for a man (?) such as him.

 

his actions show EVERYTHING you need to understand.

 

he won't let the wife go

he won't let you go

he is making sure he has backup plans all around him

he uses your emotions, his W's emotions without any regard as hurting others

he cares mainly and soley for himself

 

 

since you have evidence that he's willing to hurt you - why are you staying? if you wish for more pain from him = stay. if you wish for happiness NOT based upon what he is - or isn't - DOING = then leave.

 

it's simple... our happiness shouldn't be based upon what someone else is or isn't doing... it's not healthy balance to hand over to someone - THAT much power.

 

take your power back... he knows he's got it... he's calling the shots - and those shots hurt you - stop allowing him that much power over your happiness.

 

can you change things? what are YOU willing to change to make things different than they are now. YOU can't change HIM = you can only change YOU.

 

changing things CAN and will bring things looking much different than they are now...

[hanging on for now]

Okay... it's been a while and a TON has happened. I'll try to keep it short because I have a mini-rant here and I'd love your opinions.

 

So MM has been separated from the wife for a few months now (since October I think) and after a LOT of back and forth and confusion on his end, he finally made the decision that he wanted to be with me.

 

Whether or not that decision was because his wife wants to end it with him, although very likely, I'm not sure... regardless, things were going great.

 

Him and I get along REALLY well. We have a ton in common and never argue. EXCEPT for when it's about his wife.... which always ends up in huge messy blow outs and a ton of arguing. After him telling me he had no reason to be talking to her anymore, and finding out afterwards that he's been constantly talking and texting her, I finally had it. She didn't know about me, and he was keeping me a secret from everyone still. It was driving me crazy. I said she NEEDS to know about me, because I don't know if she still thinks it can work between them... I said either you do it, or I will.

 

I needed to know because if he was still lying to me, and I am interfering with her hopes of trying to make it work with him, I didn't want to be a part of it. When he refused to tell her and said he'll do it "when the time is right", I did something crazy and texted her and asked her if they had any intention of working things out today.

 

She was (rightfully) pissed, and said that their marriage is over, but they are still great friends. (And added in to never f'n text her ever again.... well duhhh hahha). She told him immediately, and he was pissed. Later this evening he said he was going to her place to talk to her about what happened.

 

Fine. I was cool with that. But he's been there for 4 FREAKIN HOURS and ignoring my texts and calls. I finally hear from him and he says "he's not done yet" and he'll leave when he's ready. Apparently she cut his hair for him and they went to look at cars (hers is busted)... I'm sorry but those are couple things to do. I asked him to please just come home to me and he said no, not until he's done.

 

Okay, am I wrong here to be INSANELY upset that they are such good friends and that he could quite possibly be hanging out with her like this regularly, DESPITE my feelings about it? He knows it hurts me... he says he cares but if he did he would respect how I feel about this.

 

He refuses to give her up as a friend. And I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable or if he is.

 

Anyway uuhhh long story short for tonight, I called him an a-hole and slapped him REALLY hard and stormed off I may have just screwed everything up for us by doing that. I don't know where to go from here...

 

 

Let's see how do I say this, SHE IS HIS WIFE!!!!!!! You are the sex toy that he played with whey they were having problems. There may be problems in their marriage but there are levels of attachment and love that take years to develop. About 80% of cheaters never wind up with the person they were screwing around with. And if they do wind up with their adulter, almost 75% are split from them in 5 years. This man is a lier. He lied to his wife, to you, to himself. He is trying to ride the fence. He wants to stay in your good graces but doesn't want to loose his wife. Believe it or not, he still has feelings for her. You pissed him off. He told you not to tell her. When you did, he wasn't happy. Now you aren't "perfect" in his eyes. You have made a very poor group of decisions. Cut him loose. If him and his wife work it out, their relationship will never be the same. You have little chance anyway. Do one gracious thing for the wife. Give her a chance to decide what she wants to do. You owe her a whole lot more than that.