Surrealist Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Compare it with the desperation of a 35 year old woman who wants kids but can't hold a man. Months or years of involuntary celibacy will drive many men to the edge of sanity the same way a ticking biological clock will do to women. I used to be really really bad with woman until a year or two ago. And believe me, not being able to get laid makes your mind play tricks on you. It goes something like this: You see a below average guy get a woman. You can't get a woman. So you conclude he must be better than you. But you're better looking, making a ****load of money and all your friends think you're extremely funny. So that must mean there must be something underneath that that is wrong with you. Even if you try to fight this, your subconsciousness will keep telling you this, and this believe puts you in a downward spiral, as you will lack confidence, women don't like guys who lack confidence and your believe is reinforced. The truth is, there's nothing wrong with you. You're not a bad or weird person, you just made her feel uncomfortable when you put your hand on her shoulder too soon. Or you asked for her number too soon. Or any of the things that are slightly outside of the unwritten social code. You're just slightly worse than average at reading social situations. And that's a skill that can be learned. If a kid is bad at math, he can get extra classes and get better. If a guy is below average in reading social clues, he's seen as a weirdo or a freak, while it could get solved by someone explaining to him what other people instinctively feel in social situations. Another interesting post. Maybe the problem stems from what you described or could be the guy doesn't read the signs and so doesn't act on them at all, and therefore misses out on an otherwise perfect opportunity. You know, like failing to see 'serendipity'? If that makes sense?
OceanGirl Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Interesting, just had a read of the condition, never heard of it before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_celibacy Not sure why you keep taking this thread personally. You never even try with women. It's not like you keep trying and keep failing... AND living with your ex W would make any woman uncomfortable.
Surrealist Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Not sure why you keep taking this thread personally. You never even try with women. It's not like you keep trying and keep failing... AND living with your ex W would make any woman uncomfortable. No, I just found the topic interesting to read about, nothing more, nothing less, I've never heard of it before which is why I looked it up and cited it.
OceanGirl Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 No, I just found the topic interesting to read about, nothing more, nothing less, I've never heard of it before which is why I looked it up and cited it. I don't mean just that post. This whole thread seems to strike a chord with you....
Surrealist Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 I don't mean just that post. This whole thread seems to strike a chord with you.... Well I mentioned why the thread struck a chord throughout the thread. It was mainly to do with the OP looking for sympathy on her threads while creating offensive threads herself. You obviously didn't read that.
OceanGirl Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Well I mentioned why the thread struck a chord throughout the thread. It was mainly to do with the OP looking for sympathy on her threads while creating offensive threads herself. You obviously didn't read that. I did read it but I feel like it is more than that. It's almost like you were personally insulted or affected by her claims. Anyway, never mind.
dispatch3d Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 I did read it but I feel like it is more than that. It's almost like you were personally insulted or affected by her claims. Anyway, never mind. This is one of the reasons I hate this thread. Not only is it demeaning to all men, and offensive, attempting to refute it makes any guy an open target to the "Oh you seem really personally insulted". You'll notice reporters often ask incredibly negative questions, the reason is it creates way more drama. I think one of the reasons LS hasn't stopped this thread is because of all the posts in it. They like post counts. I'm pretty disgusted by the entire thing.
hydorclops Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 I'll refute it without feeling like a target. Some men don't do well with women. Some of them are OK people, some are asshats, some complain, some don't complain. OP slammed them all. She couldn't just target the complainers, that would be too ironic.
Stockalone Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Just bumping the opening post so people understand the thread topic. Bolded is the reason for the thread. Fair enough. That is a point that should be addressed, but I don't believe that this was the reason for starting this thread. Maybe people should start reading the opening post and stop making things up. This is part of the opening post, too: I have to wonder about men who bitch on these boards ...about how hard it is for them to get laid. Boohoo hoo. Not agreeing with a poster about controversial topics is one thing. Controversy is good, although it can get ugly very quick here on LS. If northern thinks that men who complain are whiners, so be it. It's fine to start a thread about that. However, starting this thread that implies that those men are wrong to even start a thread about something they see as a problem in their life, that's not something I think should be acceptable. And coming from a poster like northern who complains about not being treated fairly/respectfully in her own threads, well that's just sad.
Ross PK Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) that i'm pointing out that sex is easy to get for most guys? why is that offensive? What is the point in pointing out the obvious? Everyone knows that most guys can easily get sex, and if they lower their standards, they can 'very' easily get it, and there is a very small percentage of guys who can't seem to get a woman at all. Seems more like you just started this thread to either A) Bash guys who are already down to make yourself feel better B) Get some attention C) So you can then sit back and enjoy the fireworks Or maybe all 3. Edited January 6, 2011 by Ross PK
Ross PK Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 OK, your experience is different from mine. You disagree with me. But is that really offensive? Was I saying anything hateful about men? It was the way you put it across, and you know it.
tami-chan Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Fair enough. That is a point that should be addressed, but I don't believe that this was the reason for starting this thread. Could it be that the reason for the thread is plain and simple "attention seeking" ? and if it is, I hope OP is satisfied with the attention she is getting and if not, I am sure OP will find another way of drawing attention to her- another threat to leave the forum, maybe? People who really want to leave just leave-no announcement necessary.
zengirl Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 I really don't understand why some women complain so often on this forum why they cannot get an LTR. They are either unattractive overweight ogresses or harbor major personal issues that cripple their prospects, and are in self-denial about either or both of these pitiful shortcomings. Any woman who hasn't ever been married by 25 to 30 years old is a loser but it doesn't mean I'm going to throw up a thread bashing such whinging whining women. I think it's hard for people of both genders to meet someone they can have a healthy, forever marriage with, and holding out for that (or no marriage, being better than a bad/failed one), is not a sign of being a "loser." Now, whining about it like it's someone else's "fault" or blaming the opposite gender for it is pretty lame, I'd grant you that. But finding someone to marry (that goes well) is much more difficult than finding someone to screw, and it takes a lot more discernment, I'd hope. Can't we agree on that? I mean, I'm 26. I could've been married twice by now (been proposed to twice), but my highschool sweetheart died, and, with the other boyfriend, I didn't feel like it was quite the right connection for something as huge as marriage, as it seemed like a bandaid to some of the problems we were already having, from my perspective. I think anyone who's in some kind of rush to get married by a certain age isn't taking it seriously enough. Marriage is huge. For me, even sleeping with someone is still kind of a big deal, but not like marriage, and having kids with someone, and that kind of permanent connection. That's a good list. The only thing I have is effort and sadly it doesn't count for crap. When I really want something, I can be really persistent and I keep trying. Unfortunately it doesn't work with women. BTW, men who don't get laid won't wither up and die, but they certainly wish they did. Sex is a necessary but still only a small part of the equation. If I wanted to, I could get an escort every month, but if that was my only contact with women, I'd still be sad and lonely. A lot of it is the way some of the bitching goes. Now, if someone posts that they feel like they cannot connect with women (understanding that sex is a part of that, as you mentioned in this post), I'm going to be sympathetic. If they post they cannot get laid, not so much, because I think valuing that---sex as something in and of itself--- is a big part of the issue with their troubles with women. Unless they have something on the list I mentioned, a guy probably won't be able to get NSA. Also, my list wasn't meant to say it would be "easy" to get it, as in girls are throwing themselves at his feet, just not difficult. I also agree with the posters who said major psychological barriers could impede as well, but I don't agree with complaining instead of working through said barriers (in general -- not just for sex). The very fact that the men you are speaking of, know you, speaks volumes about what kind of men they are. There are millions of men who don't have any female friends, they are the ones who have trouble with women. Not the guys that have female friends. The next aspect is the overall sample size. Mainly a certain type of man posts on forums, usually the geeky guy. And they are the ones who are more likely to have trouble with women. So if everybody posting on LS is a geeky guy who has trouble with women, then it's easy to mistakenly believe that all men have this trouble. Still, her OP was very rude and confrontational. I think it's an interesting observation that men without female friends are more likely to have trouble with women. I'm not saying it's necessarily true (I've no idea), but it is interesting, given that many people who argue against opposite sex friends here think sex impedes everything. Is that chicken or egg? Sex is difficult for them, so they see every woman (if it's a man) as a sex object, or they see women as sex objects (and don't have hotness or charisma or anything extra to offer in compensation for this attitude), so sex is difficult for them? I concur that at least 80% of the guys I know are not getting random sex on a daily basis. They may occasionally luck out at a bar, but not anywhere near as often as the OP implies. I suppose I agree with this, but I also don't know men going without sex for long periods of time (in excess of, say, 3 months). Compare it with the desperation of a 35 year old woman who wants kids but can't hold a man. Months or years of involuntary celibacy will drive many men to the edge of sanity the same way a ticking biological clock will do to women. And I would advise said woman to look at herself, if what she values is a relationship like that, and she's struggling, rather than blame others. A lot of the things we need or want in life require fixing ourselves first.
dispatch3d Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Zengirl, your list is way off reality. Especially the assertion of *only one of these aspects. It's just really far off how dating works, I can't really explain it anymore than that. Guys who can't get women, the reason has nothing to do with anything on that list. It has everything to do with what Jynxx describes below. Compare it with the desperation of a 35 year old woman who wants kids but can't hold a man. Months or years of involuntary celibacy will drive many men to the edge of sanity the same way a ticking biological clock will do to women. I used to be really really bad with woman until a year or two ago. And believe me, not being able to get laid makes your mind play tricks on you. It goes something like this: You see a below average guy get a woman. You can't get a woman. So you conclude he must be better than you. But you're better looking, making a ****load of money and all your friends think you're extremely funny. So that must mean there must be something underneath that that is wrong with you. Even if you try to fight this, your subconsciousness will keep telling you this, and this believe puts you in a downward spiral, as you will lack confidence, women don't like guys who lack confidence and your believe is reinforced. The truth is, there's nothing wrong with you. You're not a bad or weird person, you just made her feel uncomfortable when you put your hand on her shoulder too soon. Or you asked for her number too soon. Or any of the things that are slightly outside of the unwritten social code. You're just slightly worse than average at reading social situations. And that's a skill that can be learned. If a kid is bad at math, he can get extra classes and get better. If a guy is below average in reading social clues, he's seen as a weirdo or a freak, while it could get solved by someone explaining to him what other people instinctively feel in social situations.
zengirl Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Zengirl, your list is way off reality. Especially the assertion of *only one of these aspects. It's just really far off how dating works, I can't really explain it anymore than that. Guys who can't get women, the reason has nothing to do with anything on that list. It has everything to do with what Jynxx describes below. Maybe, my list requires editing. You must have one of those and also be the kind of guy who can see women like people and interact with them as such effectively. I thought somedude81 had a truly interesting point when he pointed out that perhaps the guys that women are friends with (the ones whose love lives we actually see) don't have the same trouble. But I don't agree that "one false move" dooms a guy. Maybe if he's looking for NSA, sure, but even looking for NSA shortens the list of girls for you. And it should. Nobody needs or deserves NSA, and I don't feel sorry for anyone lacking in it. I do feel sorry for anyone, male or female, who craves intimacy and connection and fails at it, but men are no more likely to fail at that than women.
Ross PK Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 I suppose I agree with this, but I also don't know men going without sex for long periods of time (in excess of, say, 3 months). Lol, to someone like me 3 months is absolutley nothing. Do most men really rarely go without sex for more than 3 months if they're not in a LTR? You do seem to be onto something about guys not having women as friends and guys that do. Even though I have made male friends very easily, there have probably only been about 4 girls in the whole of my life who were friends. I've got no idea why this is. But maybe it could have some sort of connection with the fact that I have never been able to get a girl?
samspade Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 ...about how hard it is for them to get laid. Boohoo hoo. (I am female btw.) While women as a whole are less easy than men, there are loads of sluts happy to avail their male counterparts at the local pub on a Saturday night. I live in a city with an girl's college, and you should see how aggressive some of these young ladies get. I know plenty of guys who are totally average and can easily find free sex if they want it on a given night. If a guy is at all attractive, he can have a field day. Online dating is another easy way for guys to fill their nights with passion. My ex is average looking, and he put about two minutes into his OKC profile. The second girl he met in person was begging him for butt sex on their first date. My point is sex is easy to get for most people. It's LTRs with desirables that are more elusive. A lot of people aren't interested in random screws. The problem for frustrated men is that they haven't developed the maturity with women that will help them attract women. Being an attractive man isn't as simple as looking good; a man must develop his outward personality and sharpen his interactions with and reactions to women. This takes practice, trial and error, and eventually, success. Once a man develops that maturity, he realizes that it doesn't matter so much whether he gets laid with X or Y girl because he can always try again. It's men who pin way too much investment on outcome (read: lays) who always come up short and, ultimately, angry and bitter. It's not that they can never get laid, either. Often it's because they had some early success, usually with one girl who was a girlfriend or even a wife if they got married too young. People put a lot of stock in relationships as a way of reaching some level of emotional maturity, but I personally believe that LTRs in your early 20s can stunt a man's growth. It's better for him to be out in the field, interacting with different women, getting rejected, finding his path in life, and developing a sense of purpose that goes beyond women and relationships. Unfortunately, too many men jump straight from Mommy to girlfriend/wife because that is the path they are told to follow. They then wake up either dumped or married to the wrong woman. Those who are lucky enough to end up single and childless but do not work on their development are the ones you find around here, complaining about women. News flash to frustrated men: Women are not programmed to trick you, destroy you, humiliate you, or reject you. They happen to be sophisticated creatures who, like you, have certain biological directives. Your job is to be a man and push the right buttons to foster attraction. Not every woman will fall into your lap. So what? But if you work and learn and be your own man, you will find that many will, if you treat them right. If there is one thing I know, it's that the less you worry about your success with women, the more success you will have.
catgotyourtongue Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Gotta stand up for Jane Doe I did not see personal attacks here, and in all due respect, the OP set off a firestorm in the original post. I am a female and I firmly believe there are some men who find it hard to get laid. For many reasons. Online dating makes it easier to get laid, but some men will still have issues based on many things, location, personality, personal issues, history, etc etc. QUOTE=JaneDoe35;3181217]Nothing personal about OP in my second post either......
SilverLining Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 I don't think sex is easy for anyone if they have standards. If they don't, well then it's not too difficult to come by. I agree men have a harder time with it than women, many women are looking for relationships and not NSA...which is why guys have an easier time finding a relationship and women have an easier time finding casual sex. I do think the post was inflammatory, and that the men have a right to be upset about it. However I have seen many posts directed at women that were equally inflammatory if not more so, and when women became angry they were called 'too emotional and unreasonable'.
KraftDinner Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 I figure that people that know me in real life are unlikely to visit LS. I am still taking a risk but I believe it's minimal. It's miles different then straight out telling them that I post on LS. I sort of think this is probably true... but... here's my personal experience with that: I post regularly on another message board, have for close to a decade. I've disclosed a lot of personal information, I mean A LOT, stuff I would never tell my friends and family. My avatar is a generic cartoon. My name is not in any way indicative of who I am. I do have my city visible but I live in a big one. Anyway, one day someone said, "Let's post pics of ourselves!" and I thought "What the hell... I'll delete it after a day or so." Well, I posted a pic of myself, and within hours someone had posted "I know you!!!" and it turned out to be a temp currently working in my office. SO weird and random, but it was very embarrassing. This person now knew more about me than ANYONE! And the fact is, she didn't have to say anything... she could have just kept it to herself and started telling my coworkers things about me (thank goodness that didn't happen). So yeah, I'm a lot more careful now. OH, and by the way... I found a close friend of mine on a different website once. Wasn't looking for her... just found a user with the handle of an obscure song title that I know she liked and it caught my eye, and it turned out to be her. I didn't tell her... she had revealed a lot about herself and it would embarrass her and I just had to pretty much stop myself from reading that board even though it was related to a topic that interested me.
zengirl Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 I don't think sex is easy for anyone if they have standards. If they don't, well then it's not too difficult to come by. I agree men have a harder time with it than women, many women are looking for relationships and not NSA...which is why guys have an easier time finding a relationship and women have an easier time finding casual sex. I do think the post was inflammatory, and that the men have a right to be upset about it. However I have seen many posts directed at women that were equally inflammatory if not more so, and when women became angry they were called 'too emotional and unreasonable'. To clarify, are you saying you think someone has a right to be upset about not having NSA sex or being able to get it easily?
SilverLining Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Oh I see what you are getting at here. I personally think they have a right to be frustrated, but not to be angry. The whole premise of this is that there is a feeling that men are coming on LS complaining about not getting laid as if it's a basic right. It's certainly not. However, I would argue that they DO have a right to come here and complain about it and be angry if that's what they so choose. I can also choose not to read their rants.
carhill Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 OP, could you accept threads like the ones you referenced, as well as this thread, being appropriately posted in the Personal Rants and Confessions forum? Perhaps that delineation between asking for dating advice (including advice on how to 'get laid') in this (dating) forum and complaining about lack of success in the other forum would be more appropriate and healthy. If I were a forum browser instead of a new thread searcher, I could see getting annoyed with 'bitch' threads cluttering up the dating forum, so can empathize. Still, I did gain some good perspective from this thread and it has been helpful. Thanks.
zengirl Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Oh I see what you are getting at here. I personally think they have a right to be frustrated, but not to be angry. The whole premise of this is that there is a feeling that men are coming on LS complaining about not getting laid as if it's a basic right. It's certainly not. However, I would argue that they DO have a right to come here and complain about it and be angry if that's what they so choose. I can also choose not to read their rants. I guess, to me, it'd be like me sitting around complaining that strange men weren't handing me $100 bills on the street just for being an awesome gal. If I made a thread, ranting about that, men would call me an entitled princess. And they'd be right. I guess that's kind of how I feel about NSA sex. Nobody needs it. Nobody deserves it. It's maybe a bonus to some people, but unless the other person is into the very same thing and the person and those situations collide, it just seems strange to get so worked up about it. I separate this from men who actually want intimate relationships but have trouble with women in general. That, I can be sympathetic towards.
donnamaybe Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 IDK. Maybe many women are reading LS and coming to the conclusion that engaging in NSA sex will get them labeled all sorts of derogatory, nasty names and conveniently pigeonholed as "less than" women who don't. We've all seen the threads, after all...
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