alex1960 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 We went to couples therapy where our headshrinker essentially said it was ok for my wife to have male friends. I almost lost it and the guy told me to calm down. Then my wife talled about the man she had an emotional affair with and tears were rolling down her eyes as she said they were only friends. Therapist agreed all along and didn't seem to get that my wife was getting way too emotional for some friend. I am looking to you again to verify that I'm not a loon!
daphne Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 There's no universal right or wrong to maintaining (not creating!) friendships of the opposite sex when you're married. However, I find it somewhat unwise unless the friendships are out in the open with the spouse and spouse inclusive, cos it does look a bit shady in my book. This is how women have affairs. Men go a different route. Personally, I wouldn't be cool with it and I totally understand why you're against it. But if you're not getting validation, she's never going to see your side to it.
tinktronik Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 You're not a loon. It's time for a new therapist. Find one that specializes in affairs or emotional affairs in marriage counseling.
carhill Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Find a licensed psychologist who specializes in recovering marriages from infidelity. 'I feel betrayed by the de-prioritization of our marriage when my feelings about this inappropriate relationship with your male friend are ignored and marginalized' Look right at the therapist when you say that. To the therapist - 'Any comments?'
Author alex1960 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 Thanks for the support guys. How would you react if you witnessed your wife weeping while she talks about a friend nothing ever happened with? I'm totally lost.
tinktronik Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Find a licensed psychologist who specializes in recovering marriages from infidelity. 'I feel betrayed by the de-prioritization of our marriage when my feelings about this inappropriate relationship with your male friend are ignored and marginalized' Look right at the therapist when you say that. To the therapist - 'Any comments?' Well said, as always.
carhill Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 How would you react if you witnessed your wife weeping while she talks about a friend nothing ever happened with? I'm totally lost. I would suggest a moment for her to compose herself and then we'd continue. Our psychologist had a box of tissues within reach for such possibilities. I don't assign an emotional component to the dynamic. Therapy is supposed to be raw and hard. A good therapist will pace the work so such moments are hopefully brief and well-spaced.
daphne Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Thanks for the support guys. How would you react if you witnessed your wife weeping while she talks about a friend nothing ever happened with? I'm totally lost. Unless he had died or something comparable, I think my reaction would be "Row?" Or maybe WTF. you're right. That doesn't make sense to me, but then again you may not be giving full context. Keep in mind, the therapist's office lends itself to random crying from most women who enter there. Pavlovian response to the tissue box maybe?
habs53 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 When its grounds for a divorce in a courtroom, it must be wrong.
Woggle Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Therapy is pretty much where a man pays to be told how horrible a husband he is.
Minnie09 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Typical example of how picking the right counselor is key. It's clear to me that every counselor projects his or her own history into his/her clients' situations. They're just human. The problem is, though, that now your W has heard his opinion and thus thinks she's "right" and her behavior is justified. Nothing will make her change her mind, now that an "expert" is on her side. Even if you change the counselor, she will think you're the problem and paranoid for no reason. Even worse: she knows she's wronged you and uses the counselor to support her case. Most likely she will be unwilling to see a different one. Why would she? Once you're identified as the overly jealous guy, it's hard to escape that role. Maybe talk to the guy alone, make an appointment for one individual session, and explain your history to him, before you go back together with her. This way he might be able to better understand your POV.
zengirl Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Thanks for the support guys. How would you react if you witnessed your wife weeping while she talks about a friend nothing ever happened with? I'm totally lost. While knowing your situation, and other things you've posted, I do think there is an issue with your wife keeping this relationship, as you should be a higher priority, of course, as her husband. . . However, I want to add, when I cry (which is pretty damn rare, but I still get my moments), it's rarely about whatever I appear to be crying about. And it's usually because I feel 'attacked.' (Whether I'm being attacked is, at that moment, irrelevant.) So, it's possible her tears weren't really about HIM, is all I'm saying. This is not meant to be a detraction of support or a validation of her. . . . just a point of view on how crying works. Crying, after all, is rarely a rational act. Unless it's manipulative, which is way worse than irrational crying. So far as the therapist goes, it sounds like he's missing the point. Even though I do think people should be "allowed" to have platonic friends of the opposite sex, in general, there is clearly more to it in your case, and it brought you to counseling, so it should actually be addressed.
seibert253 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 If you are uncomfortable with their "friendship", a wife who treasured you more than her "friend", would cut him loose in a second. Your wife is selfish. She's more worried about her feelings than yours. Put the shoe on the other foot. How would she feel if you had close female "friends"? Ask her. Let her know, fine, if she doesn't want to cut loose her "friend" for your peace of mind and the well being of your marriage, then maybe you will go out and find your own special female "friend".
Titania22 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Therapy is pretty much where a man pays to be told how horrible a husband he is. In my case it was opposite. When I was in therapy with my now exhusband, I was treated as the horrible one, despite the fact he was an abusive, drug addicted psychopath. So really it can go both ways.
Author alex1960 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 My wife no longer sees that guy. She was sobbing when she talked about the last time she had any contact with him in person. The headshrinker did not approve of her behavior but also says this is not a reason why she couldn't have male friends if she's honest about it.
Sanman Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I definitely agree with Minnie about the fact that she will likely be against changing therapists. Even if the new therapist were to agree with her, then she would see it as you picking a counselor that agreed with you. The suggestion of scheduling a session alone to discuss your issues/history is a good one. As to the original question, I do believe that your wife has the right to have male friends. However, it is not right for her to use those relationships as emotional affairs. I have many female friends in relationships and I make sure that those relationships do not cross certain boundaries. It is important that I reasonably ensure that my SO is comfortable with the situation and that I not abuse these friendships if I am not happy in my relationship. Therapy can be an emotionally difficult place to be and crying is not uncommon. She has emotions that she needs to let out. That doesn't mean that your feelings are unjustified. Simply that she has to be free to deal with her difficulties as well or the therapy will not be successful.
zengirl Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 My wife no longer sees that guy. She was sobbing when she talked about the last time she had any contact with him in person. The headshrinker did not approve of her behavior but also says this is not a reason why she couldn't have male friends if she's honest about it. Okay, well that version sounds more reasonable -- the therapists statement. It isn't really a reason why she can't have "male friends." It is a reason why she can't be friends with this guy. That seems nuanced and reasonable, mental health speaking. However, if seeking new male friends is so important to your wife---like it's on some kind of to-do list---that's pretty odd and not healthy either.
GooseChaser Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Perhaps being prohibited from having male friends makes her want to have them more?
carhill Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 As an aggressive business executive, the OP's wife may have a hard time making female friends. With men it's easier since they want to f*ck her. Path of least resistance. Also, very time, money and emotion-efficient. She's not a successful ad executive because of her looks. OP, tell us about your wife's most significant female friend. That would be the one who she shares her 'stuff' with and who enjoys the two of you when socializing with you. My exW had two close girlfriends whom she's had for nearly twenty years. Tell us about that. After over a year in counseling, it's easy to work this stuff. It's obvious. Hope it works out.
dispatch3d Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 saying she can't have male friends seem extreme. I agree with the therapist so far as I think she should be "allowed" to have male friends. I don't really think any kind of relationship will work though where the last sentence is actually a reality. I do agree she can't be friends with that particular guy, and she did have what you coined an "emotional affair" with him. I think she has emotional issues she has to deal with, and she can't be dealing with them by using some guy. It's incredibly unfair to everyone involved that she is doing that as well (she's hurting the third guy, you, AND herself. She created a lose lose lose situation where she put a temporary or lustful emotional need ahead of everything else).
Author alex1960 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 Perhaps being prohibited from having male friends makes her want to have them more? You make a good point and I may have used the wrong words. My wife was always allowed to befriend whoever she wants. But if she develops feelings for them then I may not be so agreeable.
Author alex1960 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 As an aggressive business executive, the OP's wife may have a hard time making female friends. With men it's easier since they want to f*ck her. Path of least resistance. Also, very time, money and emotion-efficient. She's not a successful ad executive because of her looks. OP, tell us about your wife's most significant female friend. That would be the one who she shares her 'stuff' with and who enjoys the two of you when socializing with you. My exW had two close girlfriends whom she's had for nearly twenty years. Tell us about that. After over a year in counseling, it's easy to work this stuff. It's obvious. Hope it works out. Thanks for posting. My wife and I have a number of friends in common, mostly other families. She has friends of her own who are mostly business colleagues, male and female. I couldn't pinpoint one specific friend but I would say she's close to her sisters.
sweet sugar Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I hate to say this, but perhaps it was not just an emotional affair. Perhaps she would not tell you the truth if there was physical intimacy involved. I mean do you have solid proof nothing else happened beyond the "emotional affair? Just sayin'.
carhill Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 OP, since your wife has stated she has ceased contact with this friend, what boundaries have you and she established to ensure consistent and verifiable behavior in that regard in the future? What's the plan? In general, I am not opposed to having opposite gender friends and my exW and I both had numerous ones. Most of the time, it's not an issue. Sometimes, it is an issue, and was for us, specifically for me. When it is, a healthy vacation from such friendships is warranted while clear boundaries and practices are established to re-prioritize the marriage and rebuild lost trust. Marriage counseling is a part of that process, for some. So, what's the plan? I'll give you some insight. I fought very hard in MC to rationalize and retain that emotional bond I had developed with someone outside our M. My exW could tell you stories to make your hair curl. Everything that was missing in that department in the M, fulfilled outside, was threatened with death. Your wife's feelings and motivations may be different, but they're potent and powerful. It's scary, really. I felt as if my lifeline was being yanked from my grasp with nothing but the cold abyss beneath my feet. If that 'friend' was nothing, she'd be totally focused on recovery and her emotions would be squarely facing you and with you. Your recounting here paints a bit different picture. IMO, if this therapist does not seek balance of perspective and respect for *both* of your feelings, it's time to get a referal or seek out another therapist. A good therapist will support *and* challenge clients and take a balanced approach. What goes on in there isn't one-sided. You're both in the M; you're both in MC; you're both responsible. If the therapist is good, you'll both own that responsibility in a healthy way. Are your wife's sisters aware of your marital issues? Any response, support, concern, advice from them?
sally4sara Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Well this is a great example of how therapy won't help if the patient isn't honest. Therapist isn't privy to everything the husband knows because he hasn't known the wife very long. And she is just singing a lullaby to him. Based on what she says, the therapists words make sense. Yes, if the fella was just a friend, she shouldn't be getting flack about it. This guy wasn't just a friend. But that little ditty isn't getting airplay in your sessions. Scrap this one and find another; he has been tainted and sounds naive. Perhaps a one on one session for each of you before your first co session will help?
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