Ellin Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 According to the British Daily Mail it's all in the genes. It is a worrying question which has crossed many a married woman’s mind: Does my best friend have a crush on my husband? According to scientists, her concern could well be justified. Studies show that when deciding if someone is attractive, we take our cue from others. This, as some wives already know to their cost, makes a married man a better catch than a bachelor. The phenomenon, known as ‘mate poaching’, might perhaps explain why Angelina Jolie could not resist Brad Pitt despite his being seemingly happily married to Jennifer Aniston. In a round-up of research on the science of attraction, psychologist Anthony Little said female birds and fish find a male more attractive if they have already seen him in the company of another female. Allowing others to carry out the mating process speeds up the dating game. And the phenomenon extends to the human world. A study found that single women shown photographs of men set their sights on those who were said to be in a relationship. By contrast, married women were much more interested in men said to be single. Another study found that men were rated more desirable when they were pictured surrounded by women than when alone or with other men, the journal Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B reports. And on a girls’ night out, a single woman should make sure she stands next to a less attractive friend. Studies show that if the company a girl keeps is on the plain side, it makes her seem all the more appealing.
carrie999 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 This is really interesting to me. I was never interested in going after someone who was even just steadily dating another woman, much less married. In fact, I was reticent about dating one of my former serious boyfriends because he was divorced with kids, and it felt strange to me to have to "share" him with his ex-wife. They had married years before because he got her pregnant and they felt they should get married despite never really falling in love, and they had been happily divorced at that point for as many years as they had been married. There was never animosity between them because there was never any spark in the first place, and he liked her new partner enough that he even befriended him. Despite it being the best possible situation in terms of dating a divorcee, I felt a little jealous and weird about it, which was obviously illogical and silly. But that's how uncomfortable I felt about getting involved with anyone who was even *formerly* married. Then I ended up involved with a MM when I was engaged to be married myself. So much for fitting into the scenarios described by this article...when I was single, I looked for a guy with a limited past. In fact, my fiance had only been in one serious relationship before he met me. Once I was *almost* married, I got involved with a married man. Go figure.
spice4life Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I can definitely say this is not the case with me. I'm surrounded by professional married men at work and have absolutely no desire to get involved or "steal" them away at all. The only thought that crosses my mind occasionally is whether or not "I" could be married to a guy "like that" (meaning personality). It has nothing to do with them personally, it has to do with their personality type. It helps me think more about what I DO want in a mate when I finally meet someone who is single and a good match for me. For me, it's more like, "hmm, if I met a single guy like him would I want to be in a relationship with him?" It's like viewing a particular "personality type" in action in a committed relationship. But NO desire to actively go after a married guy. No way! And even more so after what I've learned. In my situation, he saught me out and not the other way around.
Spark1111 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Ellin, there is a lot of research to bear this out. What is on the female gene is the innate desire to find a "proven" male; one who can provide for his clan and has demonstrated the social skills to be in a long term relationship. An alpha male, as the evolutionary biologists would call him, is the most desirable mate in the kingdom. He has already established his abilities to procreate successfully, provide for his family, protect them, and can do a long-term, committed relationship.
KarmasTestDummy Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Ellin, there is a lot of research to bear this out. What is on the female gene is the innate desire to find a "proven" male; one who can provide for his clan and has demonstrated the social skills to be in a long term relationship. An alpha male, as the evolutionary biologists would call him, is the most desirable mate in the kingdom. He has already established his abilities to procreate successfully, provide for his family, protect them, and can do a long-term, committed relationship. I think there must be truth to that, I got excited just reading your description, like he sounds like the perfect guy. Lol Yet if you think about it, divorced doesn't sound so proven, if anything it sounds like failed. Ehhh. Interesting psychology here. Feel like I'm learning a little something about myself.
spice4life Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I think there must be truth to that, I got excited just reading your description, like he sounds like the perfect guy. Lol Yet if you think about it, divorced doesn't sound so proven, if anything it sounds like failed. Ehhh. Interesting psychology here. Feel like I'm learning a little something about myself. The psychology described in these theories seems to be coming from a "gutteral" instinct as opposed to emotional evolution. Think about it this way; a person can have all of the strong characteristics described in the study, but some how ended up in shoddy relationship or marriage that wasn't right for them. Maybe they are repeating what they learned as a child. They could exhibit their strength by realizing they made a mistake and took the action necessary to correct it by getting a divorce. It shows they learned and know who they are and know what they want and have the courage to do something about it. Look at it from your point of view karma. You were in a marriage that wasn't right for you and you took the necessary action to correct it. That shows strength not weakness. So if someone said, "divorced ehhh" about you, they are missing one of your, very important, character traits which is that you are strong. Humans evolve on a emotional level that cannot be compared to birds and fish. We have different capabilities. Some of the theory applies in the beginning stages (becoming sexually ware) of our search for a mate and even then we are carrying all kinds of emotional "stuff" from our childhood. As beings on a human emotional level should we discount people who have these strengths, but due to early perceptions, made a wrong choice? You simply can't discount someone because they are divorced without looking a deeper and understanding the reason why and what they have learned.
Mrlonelyone Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 This isn't really surprising. Their are two things going on. One is that people, all people, value what other people already have, or desire to have, more than something that no one else wants or has. It's the reason that for a while so many people wanted an I phone.... because everyone else it seemed had a darn I phone. Why do people want and value Gold? Because there's very little of it and few people have any. People look at potential mates the same way. The other thing is a man who has a wife, or a girlfriend will be and look more confident. His confidence will make him more attractive to women. So even if he's not with his wife/girlfriend having one will make him more confident and more attractive. I say that because only when I have had a girlfriend already have women ever approached me. Women never approach me when I don't already have a girlfriend. I wish they would. Either no women are interested..... or there's an unwanted harem.
dreamingoftigers Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I find this interesting. Perhaps I was socially conditioned to want a man who would only love me and be with me. I would have so gladly married a virgin. Perhaps I am a gay man trapped in a woman's body. When I was younger, seeing anything adulterous on tv made me feel When I got older that feeling continued and when I saw guys in my classes sleep with and then dump girls who were devastated I felt When I found out that a guy I had a crush on turned out to be married I felt :sick: And the attraction disappeared. When I found out about how many women my husband had been with I felt When I dated 2 of my exes knowing that they had only been intimate with me I felt I did read that Kinsey concluded that a decent percent of women were programmed strictly for monogamy and simply couldn't psychologically handle the sexual bond with more then one man at a time. That's me. No question. And my parents weren't sexually conservative or anything. My mother cheated on my Dad before marriage. My Dad kept magazines in his room (made me feel ). My Dad had an affair last year. Even though my Dad encouraged Catholicism he told me the church was too strict on sex and that most people had pre-marital sex. I strongly withheld intercourse for years waiting for the right person. Guess I am exceptionally weird.
alexandria35 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I understand being attracted to a man who has experienced a long term committed relationship and who has proven himself as a partner and mate. I had the experience once not too long ago of dating someone who had very little experience with women and had never had a long term relatonship (this guy was in his early 50's) and it wasn't good. However, as soon as a married or committed man shows a willingness to deceive his family or to cheat on his mate, he immediately becomes less attractive to me. I have had the experience of finding a married man attractive (which I would never act on) only to become completely turned off as soon as he comes on to me or I witness him coming on to someone else. Blech! Wouldn't a married man who cheats be considered a less desirable mate. Why would a woman desire a cheater and liar? I would think that most mature adult women value integrity and loyalty.
KarmasTestDummy Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 The psychology described in these theories seems to be coming from a "gutteral" instinct as opposed to emotional evolution. Think about it this way; a person can have all of the strong characteristics described in the study, but some how ended up in shoddy relationship or marriage that wasn't right for them. Maybe they are repeating what they learned as a child. They could exhibit their strength by realizing they made a mistake and took the action necessary to correct it by getting a divorce. It shows they learned and know who they are and know what they want and have the courage to do something about it. Look at it from your point of view karma. You were in a marriage that wasn't right for you and you took the necessary action to correct it. That shows strength not weakness. So if someone said, "divorced ehhh" about you, they are missing one of your, very important, character traits which is that you are strong. Humans evolve on a emotional level that cannot be compared to birds and fish. We have different capabilities. Some of the theory applies in the beginning stages (becoming sexually ware) of our search for a mate and even then we are carrying all kinds of emotional "stuff" from our childhood. As beings on a human emotional level should we discount people who have these strengths, but due to early perceptions, made a wrong choice? You simply can't discount someone because they are divorced without looking a deeper and understanding the reason why and what they have learned. I couldn't agree more. Well said.
KarmasTestDummy Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I understand being attracted to a man who has experienced a long term committed relationship and who has proven himself as a partner and mate. I had the experience once not too long ago of dating someone who had very little experience with women and had never had a long term relatonship (this guy was in his early 50's) and it wasn't good. However, as soon as a married or committed man shows a willingness to deceive his family or to cheat on his mate, he immediately becomes less attractive to me. I have had the experience of finding a married man attractive (which I would never act on) only to become completely turned off as soon as he comes on to me or I witness him coming on to someone else. Blech! Wouldn't a married man who cheats be considered a less desirable mate. Why would a woman desire a cheater and liar? I would think that most mature adult women value integrity and loyalty. Yes, I would think it should be a turnoff. It is to me, but where I went wrong was when the w was the villain and feeling like he was the trapped innocent bystander. Only half truth I'm sure, but it gave me the seed to open my heart to him by allowing me to feel like some saving grace. On the opposite end of the spectrum some women/men do it strictly for the ego boost. Wanting to be desired, especially by a person they can't/shouldn't have, and the happier he is in his marriage the bigger accomplishment it is to turn him to their direction. That's what makes me ill. That's the kind of woman that was the AP with my now ex husband. Every time they have ever broken up she was seeking out another happily married man. Once I left him the task of being with him wasn't nearly as adventurous and exciting. She wasn't satisfied that I left, she was dissapointed that she couldn't make him leave for her. So much that I see her at work every day and she is still in competitive mode with me and it just makes me laugh because she is always a step behind waiting for my next move rather than fulfilling her own life with things that make HER happy.
greengoddess Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Ellin, there is a lot of research to bear this out. What is on the female gene is the innate desire to find a "proven" male; one who can provide for his clan and has demonstrated the social skills to be in a long term relationship. An alpha male, as the evolutionary biologists would call him, is the most desirable mate in the kingdom. He has already established his abilities to procreate successfully, provide for his family, protect them, and can do a long-term, committed relationship. LOL so those who give in to their primal urges and go for the married man instead of using self control until he is free are less evolved?
donnamaybe Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 LOL so those who give in to their primal urges and go for the married man instead of using self control until he is free are less evolved?Not only that, why would you want some OTHER woman's criteria of what guy is right for you? Ridiculous.
Spark1111 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 LOL so those who give in to their primal urges and go for the married man instead of using self control until he is free are less evolved? I have single girlfriends. Everyone wants the guy with the money. Money equal power in society when a million years ago, it was buffalo pelts. Who knows???? They also want the confident guy, and marriage build confidence and well-being in a guy. That's also proven. As do offspring. It is a sign he successfully procreates, another "on the gene" female thing from ancient times. So, a successful MM with children he appears devoted to and a long-term wife is, according to evolutionists, the alpha male.
NoIDidn't Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 We discussed this in another thread last year, I think, in Infidelity. I think women are like this definitely. Everyone wants the man that has money, and seems in control of his environment (to have authority). I realized after my H's EA, that he was now "that guy". While I don't look over my shoulder, he is surprised with all the attention he now gets from the younger and single set. They spend a lot of time telling him about how he's a great father, and how great it is that I don't have to work, among other things. I don't think anyone should find the study offensive. It just is. I would look for a man capable of taking care me and my children. I would prefer that he not be overextended though (have other children than mine to take care of). And I know some believe that you can't help who you love (I can understand it to a degree), but I wouldn't allow myself to fall for someone that couldn't take care of me and my kids should my H ever not be there to do that for us. I don't think the study is making a moral judgment, more a genetic observation.
OWoman Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I understand being attracted to a man who has experienced a long term committed relationship and who has proven himself as a partner and mate. I had the experience once not too long ago of dating someone who had very little experience with women and had never had a long term relatonship (this guy was in his early 50's) and it wasn't good. However, as soon as a married or committed man shows a willingness to deceive his family or to cheat on his mate, he immediately becomes less attractive to me. I have had the experience of finding a married man attractive (which I would never act on) only to become completely turned off as soon as he comes on to me or I witness him coming on to someone else. Blech! Wouldn't a married man who cheats be considered a less desirable mate. Why would a woman desire a cheater and liar? I would think that most mature adult women value integrity and loyalty. I agree with the bolded. If a MM ever hit on me, he'd instantly be relegated to my Yech-zone. But then, so are SGs
half_ofa_heart Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I agree with the bolded. If a MM ever hit on me, he'd instantly be relegated to my Yech-zone. But then, so are SGs I used to agree with this whole heartedly as in my 6 years being divorced and a very busy single mother, 80% of the men who approached me or asked me out were MARRIED!!!! Some of those 80% - I knew their wives! There was something very different about my current MM. We started out as friends, involved in local community events, and it turned into an EA which quickly turned into a full on PA. Even his first attempts at turning it P - I rejected. I truly did not want to cross that line but after several months, I couldn't deny my feelings any longer and gave in. We do have an amazing friendship. My exH and I never had anything close to the friendship we share. I guess my point is - I understand what you're saying but not every situation is the same. Even now, after experiencing the emotions of this A - I will never enter into another one.
NoIDidn't Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I agree with the bolded. If a MM ever hit on me, he'd instantly be relegated to my Yech-zone. But then, so are SGs This is somewhat personal, but not too deep. Since you also don't like it when SGs come on to you (was this before or after you married?), it sounds like you like to be the one to initiate things. Is that the case?
Breezy Trousers Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Makes sense. The "Millionaire Matchmaker" encourages women who have been divorced not to feel bad about it. In her experience, an older woman who has been divorced has a far greater chance of attracting one of her male clients compared to an older woman who has never been married -- like herself! She said men tend to think that divorced women have at least been "chosen" by someone, so that enhances their perceived value. I can see some single women finding married men more attractive because they've been "chosen." ... It's shallow thinking, but all prejudiced assumptions are shallow.
Woggle Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I really don't get this mentality. People in general male and female tend to have horrible taste and plenty of awful people get married so why is this good criteria. Then again I tend to think that most great things are underrated and unappreciated by society while many awful things are overrated.
OWoman Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) This is somewhat personal, but not too deep. Since you also don't like it when SGs come on to you (was this before or after you married?), it sounds like you like to be the one to initiate things. Is that the case? Yes. I am not some goods to be selected off a shelf, chosen as the best out of a bunch of products. I want to be the one doing the choosing. ETA - and yes, that was ever the case. Long before I married. Edited January 5, 2011 by OWoman forgot to address something
greengoddess Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Yes. I am not some goods to be selected off a shelf, chosen as the best out of a bunch of products. I want to be the one doing the choosing. ETA - and yes, that was ever the case. Long before I married. LOL and either is your mate. What happened to good old instant mutual attraction for each other? It's so odd. You don't think it is ok if someone, married, single, whatever makes a pass at you but it is ok for you to act on an attraction for a married man. I don't get it. Do you think it is possible you were really hurt once and you are afraid of beong hurt so you want all the control?
xxoo Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 I get this, to a point. When you meet a single man or woman, it can be difficult to predict how they will function in the role of partner, spouse, parent, provider, etc. It takes a lot of time to get to know their strengths and weaknesses. If you are a single person looking for a "partner material", it may seem risky to invest time in a single person who is of unknown partner potential. When you meet a married man or woman, you can immediately see how they function in the role of partner, spouse, parent, provider, etc. They've proven the partner potential. This can make them very attractive to a single person who is seeking "partner material". The irony is, being strong "partner material" and engaging in an affair are largely incompatible, so if that attractive married person takes you up on your advances, they probably aren't such great partner material afterall.
Steadfast Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) ...However, as soon as a married or committed man shows a willingness to deceive his family or to cheat on his mate, he immediately becomes less attractive to me. I have had the experience of finding a married man attractive (which I would never act on) only to become completely turned off as soon as he comes on to me or I witness him coming on to someone else. Blech! Wouldn't a married man who cheats be considered a less desirable mate. Why would a woman desire a cheater and liar? I would think that most mature adult women value integrity and loyalty. That's what I would think also, but I'm starting to wonder. When my ex first stepped out, it was with a single guy much younger than her. After he got what he wanted and moved on, she started seeing a divorced guy closer to her age, but she broke it off. It's all very strange and involved, but it was about this time (and after our divorce was final) that she started making advancements towards me again...partly due to her admitting that she didn't like me dating. It doesn't matter in the context of this discussion, but I was very wary...yet, after 16 years of marriage I had to admit that I still loved her and our history mattered. Even before things could 'get started' she backed away again and disappeared. When she finally came back around to talk, she admitted to being in another relationship...but this time a married with kids guy. I can tell you the vibe I got from her this time was very different; she was anxious, scared and told me that she was "afraid" she'd fallen in love. At that point, whatever feelings I had for her vanished, and I asked her how many families she planned to break up before she was through. In my mind, I could (almost) understand the pain and suffering she put our family through...given her problems and perhaps even some midlife crisis. But to wedge herself between a married man, his wife and children? That was a final, devastating blow to my attraction for her. I realized just how far she had fallen and knew without a doubt that we'd never reconcile. As the mother of my children we are linked, but this destroyed my respect. Edited January 5, 2011 by Steadfast
OWoman Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 LOL and either is your mate. What happened to good old instant mutual attraction for each other? I'm not a trusting person. I don't act on instant anything - I do my research first. It's so odd. You don't think it is ok if someone, married, single, whatever makes a pass at you but it is ok for you to act on an attraction for a married man. I don't get it. I do my research. I make my proposal. My target has the opportunity to consider and accept or reject my proposal. Any guy who has the same objection as me to being picked out as an item has the same right as I do to voice that objection and to reject the advance. I have never forced anyone into anything. I require nothing less than fully informed, adult consent. Do you think it is possible you were really hurt once and you are afraid of beong hurt so you want all the control? Valuing myself and asserting my agency is a political choice, based on my personal style and the fact that I don't conform to Hallmark notions of gender appropriate roles. I don't see the relevance or otherwise of being hurt - I'm simply not the passive type, nor do I engage in any of the manipulative S&TC type behaviour to try to trick a man into doing what I want him to do. I'm a direct person. If I want something, I will get it. I won't wait for someone else to come and offer it to me. I'm not that type.
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