lemonlegs Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 My boyfriend and I started dating about 7 months ago, and when we first started dating, I noticed he would make references to his girlfriend. For example, "the girl I dated when I was out west was so good at baseball, she played on the national team" or "the girl I dated had such a nice cottage in ______". He even told me about her parents and how they had weird affairs. At the time, I didn't care because we weren't really serious, but eventually it began to annoy me and he stopped doing it. I, too, had an ex boyfriend, but the difference is he cheated on me and I haven't spoken to him in a year. Today we got on the topic of how he used to always talk about his ex and how it annoyed me. He said it made me look pathetic if I cared about him talking about his ex. One, I only got mad when it was him talking about how great she was at something, and two, if it was more just stating a fact about her, it's not that I was mad but more just didn't give a flying f***. Why would I? I have no idea who this girl is, she lives across the country. Anyways, I basically said, "Well, you wouldn't like if I constantly brought up my ex" and his remark was "Well you'd be stupid to considering he effed you over and your relationship was a lie anyways, so why would you want to talk about it or him?" Not only did him start talking about me being pathetic for getting annoyed when talking about his ex, but him basically implying that my previous relationships don't matter because of how they ended, like everything in between never happened. Therefore, I shouldn't talk about it. He apologized, but it still bothered me a while after so I told him and now I think he's angry that I still care. So, what does everyone else think?
Taramere Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 I think he's being a bit of a dick, but I also think it's not something to get unduly upset about. So what if he thinks your previous relationship was a lie? His perception of it is not what defines it. Probably like many relationships it was a once happy one that ended on a sour note and is therefore difficult to have good memories about. Is he a competitive type?
Author lemonlegs Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 A little bit. We just talked about it, and he said that "if that's how it's going to be, it's going to be a two-way street, so you can't bring up anything about your ex or I'll jump down your throat". The difference is... if I EVER make mention of it, it's because he asked further about what I was talking about. For example, I think it's perfectly fine to describe an experience that you may have shared with your ex, but omitting the fact that it was WITH your ex. Then, if me or him asks who we did that activity with and one of us replies that it was our ex, then we can't get angry because we were simply telling a story about our experiences. There's a difference between saying "One time I went out to the mountains and went on a two hour hike..." than saying "Me and so-and-so (the ex) went up to the mountains where we did this and this and this...".
carhill Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 So, what does everyone else think? I take pause to wonder why you would find intimacy with such a man to be attractive. Empathy and compassion have boundaries and no one, perhaps absent a paid psychologist, likes being another's sounding board for their past relationship issues. It sounds like you and your BF have differing perspectives on this topic and his method of dealing with them, especially his communication style, lacks demonstrated care, concern or compassion, hence my first impression. Is it cool to talk about exes? Cool? Hmm... I think it's appropriate when sharing life lessons and the attendant feelings as long as the focus is on one's self and the references are incidental and anecdotal. Ex'es are ex'es for a reason (or reasons) and that should be self-evident. Dwelling on the reasons, especially negative ones (which is generally the case) can wear a partner down. I hope you and your BF find middle ground on the communication style thing. It's really important to be compatible in that area for a marriage, IME. Good luck
Author lemonlegs Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) I take pause to wonder why you would find intimacy with such a man to be attractive. Empathy and compassion have boundaries and no one, perhaps absent a paid psychologist, likes being another's sounding board for their past relationship issues. He is a good guy, but he does say things sometimes that hurt my feelings. He almost always realizes it after though and apologizes. This is the first time though where the "sorry" didn't help and it still was heavy on my mind. We talked it through, and his initial reaction was for neither of us to talk about our exES. However, I don't want him talking about his because it genuinely upsets me. He says that he doesn't "give a crap" if I talk about mine (which I think is a lie) but since he can't, I'm not allowed either. So, for spite basically. Edited January 3, 2011 by lemonlegs
carhill Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 So far, other than answering direct questions, the only references I've made with other women regarding my exW is what I learned in MC and how that process helped us both. I don't anticipate that changing. In the past, prior to being married, the subject of ex'es never even came up when I had girlfriends. I preferred to focus on the present and future than the past. That's exactly what I'd tell them if they started seeing me as a sort of 'therapist'. 'I understand that history is important but I prefer to focus on the here and now and our relationship today. How do you feel about that?' Up to you how you want to deal with this. To me, having experienced a M lacking in 'sorries', that is occasionally nice to hear, but I would want, and did in my case, to back them up with proactive actions to lessen the possibility of future hurt. In your case, ask specifically for what you want. Then, like an air traffic controller, ask for a readback.... 'what are you hearing?' Reach a consensus. De-escalate. I know, it's not easy. Relationships should be overwhelmingly positive and uplifting experiences, IMO. A lot of that just happens but some of it takes effort and care. Good luck
NoLongerSad Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 My boyfriend and I started dating about 7 months ago, This length of time suggests you are well into the "serious" stage of this relationship, so you have an investment in it. and when we first started dating, I noticed he would make references to his girlfriend. This suggests that your bf still may be carrying leftover, unresolved emotional "baggage" from the prior relationship and is perhaps unaware of it as baggage. Ordinarily I would think the typical male who was finished with a prior relationship would want to avoid bringing it up to the new gf so as not to instill unnecessary insecurities in and conflicts with the new gf. Therefore your bf's seeming compulsion to talk about his ex indicates he has not worked everything out about the prior relationship. For example, "the girl I dated when I was out west was so good at baseball, she played on the national team" or "the girl I dated had such a nice cottage in ______". He even told me about her parents and how they had weird affairs. This definitely suggests he still carries a mental/emotional connection with this ex. The breakup with her may have been extremely traumatic for him (as they often are), but he may not be able to consciously admit to himself this negative impact. Compulsively speaking of the ex in overly glowing, positive tones is a way for him to gain your acknowledgment/approval of his choice (in the past) as his prior gf. Obviously this isn't a very rational thought process but these kinds of emotional conflicts if left unresolved are very confusing. He doesn't seem to recognize that it is not your role as his new gf, to provide emotional support to him for prior relationship decisions that he made, but which ended up badly for him. At the time, I didn't care because we weren't really serious, but eventually it began to annoy me and he stopped doing it. I, too, had an ex boyfriend, but the difference is he cheated on me and I haven't spoken to him in a year. Yes as others have noted, exes are exes for a reason. Left unsaid is WHY your bf broke up with his ex (or he with her) and therefore since he has chosen to travel down this road that is the question that needs to be explored. "If she was such a prize, why did the relationship end?" The problem with that question is it implies, if she was so great, that it was he who was "inadequate." So he has to deal with the conflict either 1) he made a bad mistake in choosing a partner, previously; or 2) he's inadequate. Neither choice is a good one for him, he has not confronted this consciously, and therefore, he is in conflict. He needs to explicitly acknowledge that humans are not perfect, neither he nor his ex, and that sometimes relationships end because people are simply not compatible with each other. Of course if she did something like cheat on him then one would want to know why he is being so complimentary. Today we got on the topic of how he used to always talk about his ex and how it annoyed me. He said it made me look pathetic if I cared about him talking about his ex. This is a very defensive reaction on his part, indicating he is still carrying the baggage from the prior relationship. Obviously any gf would tend to get annoyed about their bf talking glowingly about an ex gf, constantly. He does not consciously understand his compulsion to seek approval of his ex-gf from you, so he reacts defensively/emotionally to discussion of the issue. He does not recognize the inappropriateness of his behavior because his obsession with his ex (and he is definitely obsessed with her even if he doesn't always exhibit that) completely overwhelms his judgment. One, I only got mad when it was him talking about how great she was at something, and two, if it was more just stating a fact about her, it's not that I was mad but more just didn't give a flying f***. Why would I? I have no idea who this girl is, she lives across the country. This girl is actually very important to you though you've never met her. She--or something about that relationship-- damaged your bf in some very serious way which he does not want to face up to. She is not across the country, she is right there with you inside his head. You're not a couple, you're a threesome. Of course you must realize the image of her he carries in his head might be a completely inaccurate mental construct, she might be very different in real life. So you're not even dealing with a "real" person, it's all in your bf's head. Anyways, I basically said, "Well, you wouldn't like if I constantly brought up my ex" and his remark was "Well you'd be stupid to considering he effed you over and your relationship was a lie anyways, so why would you want to talk about it or him?" Here, your bf is putting his ex on a pedestal by denigrating your prior relationship and your ex. His remark was not really pertinent to the precise point you were making. He perceived it as an "attack" on his ex when it was actually simply an observation about polite behavior when in a relationship. Not only did him start talking about me being pathetic for getting annoyed when talking about his ex, but him basically implying that my previous relationships don't matter because of how they ended, like everything in between never happened. Therefore, I shouldn't talk about it. It sounds like in addition to his baggage, he has somehow idealized his mental fantasy image of his ex to the point where he needs to put you down as somehow inferior to her. It sounds like for some reason he is definitely still carrying a torch for/is obsessed with his ex. Again please realize this is most likely all in his head; it's not as if his ex is any kind of a legitimate threat to your relationship (assuming they are not still in contact, that is). He apologized, but it still bothered me a while after so I told him and now I think he's angry that I still care. So, what does everyone else think? Seriously? I think your bf needs individual therapy because he is not over his ex yet and he does not seem to acknowledge the damage his obsession is doing to his relationship with you. Couples counseling might also be helpful.
NoLongerSad Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 He is a good guy, but he does say things sometimes that hurt my feelings. He almost always realizes it after though and apologizes. This is the first time though where the "sorry" didn't help and it still was heavy on my mind. We talked it through, and his initial reaction was for neither of us to talk about our exES. However, I don't want him talking about his because it genuinely upsets me. He says that he doesn't "give a crap" if I talk about mine (which I think is a lie) but since he can't, I'm not allowed either. So, for spite basically. "Don't ask, don't tell" will not be an effective strategy. You must realize that he talks about his ex because he needs to talk about her and may need to talk about her quite a bit until he gets it figured out (which is why I suggested therapy). Even if he never says a word about her I'll be he thinks about her often perhaps to the point of obsessive rumination. Most likely there is some kind of endless tape playing in his mind about that relationship where he obsessively goes over and over and over his memory of events and why this happened and that happened and why it ended. This is the nature of obsession.
Author lemonlegs Posted January 5, 2011 Author Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) NoLongerSad, I totally appreciate your input but I do not think he's obsessed with her. As I mentioned before, he hasn't brought her up recently, this was stuff he talked about in the first 3 weeks of our relationship, and once I finally said I didn't care to hear about it, he stopped. They also used to talk on the phone but when I let him know I found it, he told me flat out that he'd stop if it bothered me. He just didn't think it did because I wasn't vocal about it. I didn't want to be "that girl" because I'm not insecure by any means. Also, he has told me that he's never felt this way about any girl before, including this girl. They only dated for 8 months and I'm pretty sure we'll last a hell of a lot longer than that. The reason they broke up was because he moved back home, and she stayed there, and long distance just didn't work. And I found out that he slept with another girl while they were still supposed to be maintaning this relationship. But luckily for him, she admitted to sleeping with someone else as well. Though I do agree with your part about him idealizing his past relationship in comparison with mine, I think it has to do with the fact that he's 3 years older (he's 22, I'm 19) and he would like the idea that he was my knight in shining armour. He's apologized to me multiple times since this argument and I know he no longer speaks to her except she always is the first to text him "Merry Christmas" or "happy Thanksgiving", etc. He never initiates that. He did say some really stupid things about her in the first month of our relationship that, if I felt more seriously about him at the time, I would have backed off. But he's definitely changed his tune now that we're much more serious, so it's okay. This was just an argument that stemmed back quite a while that got brought up for whatever reason, so I just wanted to hear others' opinions. Also, when we first started dating it was only 5 months after both of our previous relationships so I can understand if he`d still think about her (I can admit it`d be hard to just up and leave someone you had a relationship with for 8 months). If I even talk about leaving for school or something, he actually gets upset and suggests he would come with me. One night when we were a little drunk, the subject arose and he poured his heart out to me saying that he`s never felt as strongly about any girl (And I do genuinely believe him, he`s a great boyfriend), and I just mentioned her. His response was, `she may have not been the best looking girl, but I thought it was cool how she skiied.` So I took this as he had a common interest with her. This girl is also 4 years older than me, so I just try and remind myself that she probably (if she still had any attachment) resents me more than I could ever resent her. Edited January 5, 2011 by lemonlegs
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