How to get him to stop contact with EA woman

[jennyrusks]

Hello

 

I've been lurking on the boards here for a while but decided to post. Thanks for reading.

 

Here's the story:

Myself and H have been married for 6 years, together 8. He was diagnosed with mild depression about 3 years ago and went on tablets for a while but gave them up as he was handling it ok with occassional bouts of what I would consider extreme moodiness. Apart from that we got on great. Our sex life was never really "on fire" and I take responsibility for that. I'm a bit of a prudi-pants, but in general I thought everything else was good and that I was showing much love, because I'm completely bananas about the guy (and still am). I know that he was mad about me too.

 

Around mid-march of this year, his mood changed dramatically and he did not come out of a mild depression. He became very cold and angry towards me, but I just carried on hoping for the best. His job has been a nightmare for him for the last few years and he really hates it. I thought that if he could sort that out, things would improve.

 

Towards the end of May, relations between us were dire. Even though we didn't have an amazing sex life, there were always hugs, kisses and rubs from both of us throughout our relationship, but during the March to May period, he pretty much had turned to stone towards me. It was also at this time that I noticed his "friendship" with a woman he used to work with seemed to be very important. They were going to lunch on a far more regular basis and up until this point I never had any problem with them going to lunch even though I had never met the girl because I trusted him implicitly.

 

Anyway I had a talk with him at the end of May (not about her, just about us) and he said we had some really big problems. I thought we had some problems but I didn't think they were "really big". Our sex life came up as one problem and the fact that he felt he couldn't talk to me was another. I said that I thought we could work everything out as long as we started talking to each other.

 

Two days later he came home from work and told me it wasn't going to work and that I could find someone much better than him and I deserved better and he was in love with this other woman. Needless to say this is not what I expected to hear. So that night we talked and talked and he was adament that there was no hope and we were both crying. He told me about some of his two previous serious relationships and they how they had ended badly and he was so genuinely filled with pain that I just felt so sorry for him despite him wanting to end our marriage that day. I convinced him to come to the doctor with me the next day and within about 10 seconds of me explaining the situation to the doctor, the doc asked him about his mental health and H said he was suicidal and making stupid decisions. The doc was amazing and made arrangements for us to see an on-call psychiatrist. And he went on sick leave from work. He was diagnosed with a major depressive episode.

 

As awful as that sounds I felt relief that here was an explanation and everything would be ok.

 

So H started medication and the first month really showed no improvement and all the time talked about our relationship ending and how we'd have to sell our house. Also during this time he would spend a LOT of time texting this other person while barely giving me the time of day.

 

Intensely painful for me, but I just thought to myself well, let's just wait for the medication to start working and he'll come to his senses. I tried not to take things too personally and read as much as I could about depression. As he got better his mood improved and he stopped talking about us breaking up. Unfortunately he didn't stop texting this woman (nor did she stop texting him). Eventually I started to tell him how uncomfortable I was with the texting and the fact that he wanted to meet up with her again for lunch. He insisted that they were just friends and that even though he did find her attractive and would have liked to have done something physical he said that nothing physical happened. I do believe him that nothing physical, BUT something emotional most certainly did.

 

Over the summer his mood was improving and he talked about only being with me and he wasn't going anywhere, but emotionally he was long gone from me. I was doing a certain amount of pleading but wasn't too bad. I told him several times how much this "friendship" was hurting me but he insisted that they were good friends and that they were supporting each other. She seems to be as messed up as my H and is also married.

 

Anyway the texting continued and in Sept I looked at his phone (believe it or not I hadn't snooped up to this point) and the messages were about how they would only send platonic texts from now on, meaning all texts had NOT been platonic up to that point. I also checked his email which really made me feel sick. It seems they had set up their own email address that they wrote to each other. He is unaware that his sent messages were left sitting in his own email address. The emails nearly killed me and my broken heart was shattered yet again. The emails were not smutty but were full of emotional language about how great she was, how much the understand each other and some really embarrassing schoolboy stuff that I would laugh at if it didn't hurt so much. He was basically head over heels with her.

 

So he knows I saw his phone but doesn't know (and never will) that I saw those emails. I told him that he had broken my heart and he asked me if I wanted him to move out and I said No. The main thing I wanted hit to do was stop texting this cow and for us to fix our relationship.

 

Fast forwarding a few months, we are doing much better and talking more and he talks about "we" and "us" which feels great. However he still wants to remain "friends" with this OP. He's still off sick from work but met her for lunch four weeks ago, having not seen her for 6 months. He seems to think if he tells me that he's meeting her that I'm ok with it.

 

We started marriage counselling and I spoke at length about how much this is hurting me but he said that he needs her support and that he can talk to her in a way that he can't talk to me, but that they are friends only.

 

I'm trying to focus on fixing why he can't talk to me and not too much on her but it's driving me nuts. I know he is still emotionally attached to her. I definitely do not want to give an ultimatum, because I'm not prepared to walk away. He is intensely stubborn and would rather stick pins in his eyes than back down on this.

 

The approach I am trying to take is to fix what was missing and not push this issue too hard but there has to be boundaries. In many ways I feel like we are getting back on our feet and I don't doubt that he loves me. However, for me there is always an elephant in the room (and I wish I had an elephant gun).

 

About two weeks ago he told me that they had decided to take a step back as they had become too dependent on each other. From what I could gather from the email I saw, it sounded like the OW initiated this. I really would have loved if it was him who said we need to take a step back. Anyway, this appeared to start some sort of grieving process with him - which I think is a good thing, but then yesterday the stupid cow texted him again. I don't know what it said but I know that this has to stop or the feelings will just linger. He says he knows how much effort I've put into everything and really appreciates it but I can see this is an addiction for him and he still wants to play the "friendship" card with her.

 

My question is, do I just continue to try and work on what was missing and hope that this woman leaves the scene. Like I said, I really don't have an ultimatum in me at the moment. There seems to be nowhere near as much texting going on and the emails are infrequent too but still happening and I'm not fool enough to think he is over her attention. Does anyone have any recommendations or advice on this situation. I'm sure it's not unique and I'm really only interested in fixing our marriage and really appreciate some advice from people who have gotten through this successfully.

 

thanks for reading such a long post.

[carhill]

File for divorce. It works wonders. She'll lose him in a hot minute once he starts in with the divorce 'talk', along with the specter of him actually being 'free'.

 

You'll get varying 'advice' but mine is that of a H who did have an EA and did get divorced. I also participated in MC for over a year. If there is still love in your M, MC might 'fix' it if you're both willing. It's a great place to work through an EA, IMO.

 

Welcome to LS and good luck

[hopesndreams]

There is no way you can get him to stop contact with this MOW. It's been going on for so long now and he is in way too deep. An ultimatum may have worked in the early stages.

 

People will only stop doing bad things when they choose to stop. One of the biggest ways for them to stop is if it is no longer of any benefit to them and if they fear losing something.

 

He has the best of both worlds right now. A connection with another woman and you, his W, waiting in the side wings, loving him unconditionally.

 

One day, he and his MOW will either make plans to be together or they will drift apart. You, sitting back, doing nothing will give them chance to do what they want with plenty of time to do so. If they drift apart you will still have the same man, one who is broken inside and when another opportunity arises to treat you disrespectfully again, he will, with no hesitation. Why? Because it feels good and he suffers no consequences. Completely selfish and cowardly.

 

Since giving an ultimatum isn't in the cards for you at this time, I highly suggest the 180. You need to show him you can live your life quite happily without him. Also, by doing the 180, it gives you space away from the situation which may give you some clarity on how to proceed.

 

Do not tell him what you are doing in regards to 180, if you decide to try this. He is not to know. When he feels you getting further away from him, it may draw him closer to you and in turn, he may detach little by little away from the MOW.

 

This isn't an overnight cure-all. It takes time and patience, lots of it, BUT it will make you feel empowered by taking some of the control away from him.

 

really appreciate some advice from people who have gotten through this successfully.

 

Sorry to say I wasn't one of them. I wasn't able to share my life, my marriage with another woman and didn't have time/patience to be disrespected waiting for him to get his head outta his azz.

 

Here's the 180.

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.

23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

[freestyle]

Great advice, so far.

 

Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst.

 

Seriously, be prepared. Stop putting your income into joint accounts, start an account of your own..if this does move towards divorce, you're going to need to be able to support yourself again.

 

I don't see any hope of your M recovering as long as your H is still in contact with his "friend".

 

I'd also like to recommend that you read the book, "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass--and see if you can get your H to read it as well. Even if he's not willing, it will help you to understand the dynamics of what's happening.

 

I wish you well.....

[jennyrusks]

Thanks all for the advice, much appreciated.

 

On so many levels I feel we're doing better and I know he can talk to me much more now than probably any other time in our marriage. But this other person is a horrible stumbling block. As I mentioned they don't see each other very often once in six months but that's because he's been out of work sick with depression and even when he goes back to work he will not be in the same building as her. He doesn't socialise with workmates or other friends so there is no meeting for drinks or anything like that. It seems like things started to get out of hand when they were going to lunch too frequently, then he got sick and some fairly insane texting was going on. No doubt the depression is all part of this mix.

 

The emails have reduced as has the amount of texting but he still has her on a pedestal. In some ways I almost wished they had shagged because it might bring things to a head quicker and it probably wouldn't feel any more painful than the emotional stuff.

 

We're going to MC on Wed and I'll bring it up there because I've been avoiding relationship talks as much as possible and just trying to get on with it. Over Christmas he did a lot of things for me that I know he finds difficult and we've been reading the five love languages together. As I said it's this horrible stumbling block cow, otherwise progress is being made.

 

I really can't bear the thought of this not working out. Last Christmas he wrote how he loved me more than the previous year, so I feel I can't give up on what was a good marriage, but I know this may sound naive.

 

I will try to 180 as much as possible. I need to get back on my feet and start doing things for myself as you suggested and hope he will see the difference between long term real love and infatuation.

 

thanks again

[carhill]

OP, I'd suggest reading the threads of a LS'er who did successfully recover his marriage over a period of years from an EA. Here's a great thread to start with. Take your time. Lots of reading. Good luck

[BB07]

The other woman is NOT the problem, your husband IS the problem, what he has done, what he is still doing now. Until you get tough and address the issues HE has, things won't change much. And.........if I were you, I wouldn't be so sure that some shagging didn't go on.

You've been given some great advice here and most of it centers on getting tough and waking up to the fact that you can't continue to excuse your husbands bad choices. Right now he is not accountable for what he has done. I can't imagine how hard it's going to be for you, but you really need to accept the reality of what you are dealing with. Just to reiterate........the ow is not the problem, it's your husband.

 

PS........my perspective comes from having been a former OW, the majority of the time I was in the dark about my OW status.

[carhill]

I liked Owl's perspective, paraphrased:

 

'If contact with the OM has not apparently and transparently ceased as of right now, I will file for divorce.' Calm and direct.

 

OP, this statement underscores an important component of dealing with infidelity. What is your *plan*? Formulate your plan and then execute it. No waffling.

 

Disclaimer: I'm a MM and divorced. I've walked some of your H's path, especially wrt EA's. Hope it works out better for you. I didn't love my exW any more and she knew it. Your circumstances may be different. Get moving.

[Owl]

Here's my take...going to MC is a good step. I'm curious what your MC says about the continued contact and "need each other for support" with OW.

 

Taking actions to improve your part of the marriage...again, good steps.

 

But...he also needs to suffer consequences for not changing his behaviors and ending contact with OW.

 

You need to stop and realize how strong you are. You need to realize that even if your marriage would end as a result of all of this, YOU will continue, and thrive.

 

Once you realize that, and once you realize that you don't NEED him, but you WANT him in your life, you'll realize that you've got a lot more power than you thought.

 

Make it clear to him...your marriage can no longer support three people. He's got the choice...her support, or yours.

 

He's had more than enough time to make whatever changes he's needed to.

 

At this point, he can work WITH you to help ensure he's got all the support he needs within the marriage, or he can work AGAINST you and keep contact with her...which will result in divorce.

 

Make it clear to him...if he wants to stay in a relationship with you, he has to END his 'relationship' with her.

 

But...be ready to actually take measures to end your marriage. He may try to take that route, and you need to find the strength to do what you need to do to protect yourself long term.

 

If he "says" he wants to be with you, then he needs to take concrete actions to ensure that. He needs to break it off with her completely and totally...and SHOW you that.

 

If you're not ready to force his hand...you're probably going to stay in the same situation you're in right now...indefinitely.

 

People change only because the pain of staying outweighs the pain of changing.

 

Right now...he's not suffering enough consequences to make the choice to change.

 

Consider discussing this with your MC in a "one on one" session.

[Fight4Me]

You're putting far too much responsibility on yourself for your WH's behavior. You mention over and over again about working on ways to improve in order for him to start confiding in you rather than her. By doing this, you are putting yourself in competition with the MOW. Think about it.....

 

You are competing for your husband against another woman!

 

Not only does that drop your self-respect to zero, but it also does the same in how he sees you. You are prolonging the agony and I guarantee that you will look back and regret that you never stood up for yourself.

 

He keeps mentioning that she's a friend. Ummm... no. Friends don't drive wedges in marriages. Friends do not engage in intimate discussions with one another, and then continue to involve themselves where they do not belong. I'm not just talking about her, but him as well. She has a betrayed husband who is in the dark and probably wondering what the heck is happening to his marriage. You need to muster the courage to tell him what you know because he has the right to decide whether he wants to stay married to his cheating wife.

 

Stuff like this festers and spreads in secrecy and darkness. Drag it into the light so they can see the black mold they've been nurturing. It isn't so pretty when reality comes crashing down.

 

You must make him choose between you and her, and make it clear that nothing less than complete no contact means you are done. See a lawyer, get your ducks in a row, stand up for yourself. Do the 180, and he'll probably drop her like a hot potato, but you may not want him anymore by then. But only when you take a stand and show self respect will there be any hope of him turning back to your marriage and working on himself to be the man who doesn't piss on his commitments.

 

You'll never have peace in or out of your marriage until you finally say enough is enough.

[amerikajin]

I don't believe in filing for divorce until you're ready to file for divorce, but I do believe in separation as an immediate first step in a series of steps that could ultimately lead to divorce, if it comes to that.

 

The key in handling this isn't to control the other person -- you cannot do that. This is why ultimatums don't work. You have to instead focus on yourself. You have to ask yourself what are your boundaries? What are your values? What are your expectations in a partner?

 

Once you've asked and answered those questions, you then establish clear consequences, without fail, and with no second chances. That's why I advise against the filing for divorce until you're completely willing to go through with it. Otherwise, one of two bad things can happen: you stick to your guns and divorce without knowing whether you could have employed other tactics, or, you back away from a divorce and the husband thinks he can manipulate you, and he does it again.

 

If you take the progressive steps approach, it's much more effective. If you say, for example, that if the texting doesn't stop you'll move out, and then follow through on your word, then the husband sees clearly that you a) established a consequence, and b) followed through. More importantly, that strengthens your next move, and he knows that if you go to divorce court, that's it. Game over. Period.

[whichwayisup]

Have you thought about letting this woman's husband know what has been going on? Just something to consider.

 

Your H needs to say goodbye to this OW, she's a cancer to your marriage. It's time to get tough with him.

[freestyle]

I don't believe in filing for divorce until you're ready to file for divorce, but I do believe in separation as an immediate first step in a series of steps that could ultimately lead to divorce, if it comes to that.

 

The key in handling this isn't to control the other person -- you cannot do that. This is why ultimatums don't work. You have to instead focus on yourself. You have to ask yourself what are your boundaries? What are your values? What are your expectations in a partner?

 

Once you've asked and answered those questions, you then establish clear consequences, without fail, and with no second chances. That's why I advise against the filing for divorce until you're completely willing to go through with it. Otherwise, one of two bad things can happen: you stick to your guns and divorce without knowing whether you could have employed other tactics, or, you back away from a divorce and the husband thinks he can manipulate you, and he does it again.

 

If you take the progressive steps approach, it's much more effective. If you say, for example, that if the texting doesn't stop you'll move out, and then follow through on your word, then the husband sees clearly that you a) established a consequence, and b) followed through. More importantly, that strengthens your next move, and he knows that if you go to divorce court, that's it. Game over. Period.

 

This is sound advice, but I would modify one aspect----I firmly believe that the wayward party should be the one to move out, NOT the betrayed spouse.

 

The WS chose to disrespect the M --why should the BS be the one to go through the inconvenience and upheaval of moving?

 

The WS wants a taste of what else is out there--let him/her be the one to go through that hassle.

 

Plus, based on what I've read, if the BS moves out, it can be considered abandonment--and work against them if it does end up in divorce.

[whichwayisup]

This is sound advice, but I would modify one aspect----I firmly believe that the wayward party should be the one to move out, NOT the betrayed spouse.

 

The WS chose to disrespect the M --why should the BS be the one to go through the inconvenience and upheaval of moving?

 

I agree. If he chooses to continue contact with the OW, then he can move out. Exactly, why should you pack up and move out of the house? He does need to suffer consquences. People rarely change their ways UNLESS they suffer consquences of their actions and choices. So far he's done nothing, he still has the friendship and he still has you as a wife.

[ConflictedGuy27]

this is all great advice, but I'd wager it flys in one ear & out the other. this is unfortunate, IMO, but obvious.

 

the OP has already chosen complacency.

she is merely uncomfortable being #3 in her own marriage; not disgusted, nor angry -- just complacent.

 

this speaks volumes about her. her husband understands & exploits this weakness of hers; he has for years. and his disrespect is still paramount. he doesn't even have to hide it anymore... instead, he communicates with his AP out in the open & his wife just takes it.

 

OP, I strongly suggest you consider independent counseling -- by, & for yourself. the advice you've received here so far is good; but based on what you've disclosed about yourself, I doubt you have the strength (currently) to implement any of it.

 

Please consider counseling.

Edited January 4, 2011 by ConflictedGuy27

[jennyrusks]

Hi again

 

Thanks everyone for the advice and it makes complete sense, but I think Conflicted guy you've hit the nail on the head. I don't have the strength at the moment to put out an ultimatium (I don't like ultimatums anyway and am probably too diplomatic by far) I have started going to my own counselling as well as the marriage counselling. I used to be very strong, but somewhere in the last 2-3 years I've lost myself. I think I have allowed his depression to have an impact on me and I need to get back to where I was.

 

I'm also using the Divorce Remedy book as a guide. I like the author's philosophy. Naive as it may sound I still believe that can be avoided. My parents are married 49 years and I can't believe they haven't gone through some seriously crappy patches, that's my compass. Getting myself back to where I was is probably the no.1 priority and I think that will in turn help the marriage, but he does have to stop the contact, I'm under no illusions about that. He is also getting help with his depression (and I don't mean my arch nemesis OW) so my waivering optimism continues.

 

thanks all.

[Owl]

Fair enough.

 

So what's your 'plan' to get him to stop contact with OW?

[amerikajin]

Hi again

 

Thanks everyone for the advice and it makes complete sense, but I think Conflicted guy you've hit the nail on the head. I don't have the strength at the moment to put out an ultimatium (I don't like ultimatums anyway and am probably too diplomatic by far) I have started going to my own counselling as well as the marriage counselling. I used to be very strong, but somewhere in the last 2-3 years I've lost myself. I think I have allowed his depression to have an impact on me and I need to get back to where I was.

 

I'm also using the Divorce Remedy book as a guide. I like the author's philosophy. Naive as it may sound I still believe that can be avoided. My parents are married 49 years and I can't believe they haven't gone through some seriously crappy patches, that's my compass. Getting myself back to where I was is probably the no.1 priority and I think that will in turn help the marriage, but he does have to stop the contact, I'm under no illusions about that. He is also getting help with his depression (and I don't mean my arch nemesis OW) so my waivering optimism continues.

 

thanks all.

 

I don't like ultimatums either. I don't think ultimatums work with people, and I doubt that they are all that effective with wanderers.

 

Don't give specific ultimatums in reference to specific behaviors, just tell him matter-of-factly that you cannot continue like this, that the relationship cannot function like this, that it will not function like this, and that you will have to start making decisions with yourself in mind.

 

Once you've done that, map out a strategy of progressive action, with increasingly severe consequences. If he sends another text - just one - move out (assuming it's financially possible). Don't ask questions. Don't give him warning. Don't negotiate with him. Just do it. Move out. Tell him that you'll stay separated until you can be convinced that he is serious. He will try to talk you out of moving, but don't. Once you've made the decision, you absolutely must follow through with this. All the time, maintain a calm, steady demeanor. Be cool and aloof and methodical. It will throw him for a loop because he is used to having the control. He will see that he no longer controls the dynamic, because now, you do!

 

Now, one of two things can happen here: he could end up fooling around again, in which case, it's time to consider divorce. Again, if you file, I personally think that you have to follow through with it. That's why I wouldn't file for divorce unless I was absolutely ready and committed to it.

 

If, on the other hand, he appears to be on the straight and narrow, and you feel confident about giving it one more try, then do just that: give it ONE try. If he slips up once again -- even a little bit -- then you've got a difficult decision to make.

[ConflictedGuy27]

Hi again

 

Thanks everyone for the advice and it makes complete sense, but I think Conflicted guy you've hit the nail on the head. I don't have the strength at the moment to put out an ultimatium (I don't like ultimatums anyway and am probably too diplomatic by far) I have started going to my own counselling as well as the marriage counselling. I used to be very strong, but somewhere in the last 2-3 years I've lost myself. I think I have allowed his depression to have an impact on me and I need to get back to where I was.

 

I'm also using the Divorce Remedy book as a guide. I like the author's philosophy. Naive as it may sound I still believe that can be avoided. My parents are married 49 years and I can't believe they haven't gone through some seriously crappy patches, that's my compass. Getting myself back to where I was is probably the no.1 priority and I think that will in turn help the marriage, but he does have to stop the contact, I'm under no illusions about that. He is also getting help with his depression (and I don't mean my arch nemesis OW) so my waivering optimism continues.

 

thanks all.

 

I'm no shrink, but I doubt diplomacy is your problem... more like dependency.

 

I'm glad you're in IC. for what it's worth I think you guys are wasting your money on MC -- insofar as it's kabuki theater for your H. Since going preserves the status quo, he's likely using MC as a platform to support the argument that he has to weene himself away from his AP. the fact is, he's made his decesion... she ain't leaving, so long as he can help it.

 

Again, I'm no doctor, but from the outside looking in, OP, (as well as being a bit naive myself while going through my share) the ball is in your court, but you need more training to "shoot it" (to use a basketball term of art) & score.

 

how do you like your independent counselor? is it the same person that you both see together for MC? How would you describe a session in IC? what I mean is time you take to say what you need to say (i.e. venting) versus time allotted where your counselor is guiding your thinking towards concepts to think about/consider?

 

lots of questions there, but do tell.

thanks.

Edited January 4, 2011 by ConflictedGuy27