bob44 Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 In late 2007 I confronted my wife about secret meetings she was having with a man that she said was just a "friend". She said she would set up a meeting between the three of us so I could see that he was just a friend. She apparently had no intention of setting up the meeting and kept putting me off. Finally in January 2008 she said she had stopped all contact with him, and would be embarrassed to call and ask for a meeting. I had his email address and sent him an email. He assured me that they were just friends and said "Feel free to email me anytime and I'm alway here to answer your questions!" I know they weren't just friends, but I elected to let it go. Perhaps I'm paranoid, but I have no way of knowing whether my W has been in contact with him or is still meeting him. It's been over two years and I still think about it constantly. In December I started receiving a series of emails purporting to be from him. I recognized the fact that someone had hijacked his computer and was sending emails to everyone on his email list. Trying to be nice, I hit reply on one of the emails and let him know that someone had hijacked his computer. I thought I'd get a response back thanking me for letting him know. Instead I received nothing. I thought maybe he wasn't still using that email, so I then signed up for a service that let's me know when someone had opened an email and sent him another email giving him a link to a free service to help get rid of the spyware that had hijacked his computer. I know he opened this email. Yet, still no response. Am I paranoid in thinking that if he wasn't still seeing my W that he would have responded to my email?
Bryanp Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 The fact that your wife had no intention of setting up a meeting between you and the OM tells you pretty much all you need to know. If the roles had been reversed do you honestly think your wife would have been so accepting as you have been?
Author bob44 Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 The fact that your wife had no intention of setting up a meeting between you and the OM tells you pretty much all you need to know. If the roles had been reversed do you honestly think your wife would have been so accepting as you have been? This tells me that there was more going on than "just a friend" and that she didn't want me meeting with him. However, I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt and think that she actually did stop contact with him after I found out.
WifeCheatedOnMe Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 (edited) Almost 3 years later and you're still wrestling with this???? Just ask your wife point blank in a non-confrontational manner. Explain to her that this has been bugging you for 3 years and that you would just like to know the truth. If she is compassionate and understands, then it's probably nothing. If she gets defensive or dismissive snoop a little deeper. One thing (among hundreds) that I've learned through my ordeal is that if they suddenly throw up walls instead of assuring you lovingly, then there is something there. No healthy relationship should avoid honesty with each other, and no party to that relationship should be offended when the other is hurting or bothered by something. I would much prefer the wife that says, "you know what...3 years ago I did feel myself slipping into an emotional connection with him and for the sake and reverence of our marriage I ended all contact...I love you and only you", vs "It's none of your business...you worry too much, are too controlling, are too jealous, I can have guy friends, et al". Edited January 1, 2011 by WifeCheatedOnMe
alexandria35 Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Okay I'm not computer savy so I apologize if this is a stupid question, but if somebody hijacked his computer and they were in his email, is it possible that somebody else is opening and reading his email instead of him? Sorry that you are in this position. The relationship with him and your wife may have been innocent or it may not have been. The part that sucks is you know that either way, both will say it was innocent even if it wasn't. Sounds like you have to decide one way or the other, believe her or not. Tough spot to be in.
Author bob44 Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 Just ask your wife point blank in a non-confrontational manner. Explain to her that this has been bugging you for 3 years and that you would just like to know the truth. If she is compassionate and understands, then it's probably nothing. If she gets defensive or dismissive snoop a little deeper. I have tried that several times. The last time was November of last year. She got upset and said "I've told you several times that he was just a friend. I wish you would believe me". Probably one of my problems is that I back off when she gets upset, because I think from that point forward whatever she says to me is probably a lie.
freestyle Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Bob, are you familiar with the term 'gaslighting?"
Author bob44 Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 Bob, are you familiar with the term 'gaslighting?" No but I looked it up. That comes from the movie Gaslight in 1944 in which the husband is trying to drive his wife insane. I don't believe my wife is trying to drive me insane. However, I would like to see the movie.
freestyle Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Bob-it's a great movie, although a bit disturbing. In the context of infidelity, however, the term gaslighting describes the behavior of a WS, turning the tables on a BS when confronted with the BS's suspicions. Instead of being truthful, the WS will try to get the BS to doubt their own perceptions, and question themselves... "You're overreacting" "You're making a mountain out of a molehill" "You're just being jealous/paranoid/insecure/irrational" All statements that make the BS stop and question themselves. Effectively diverting attention from the real issue at hand.It's a deflection tactic. Normally, when the BS is still in the stages of only having suspicions (no concrete evidence is available yet)--they are very vulnerable--and they still don't want to face the horrible possibility that their spouse could be lying to them.The BS's gut is screaming at them that something's up,things aren't adding up, but they still don't want to believe the worst. It's far more palatable for the BS to believe that something is wrong with them---rather than accept that their WS is getting their needs met elsewhere. Serial cheaters and cake-eaters (those who wish to have something on the side, but don't necessarily want the end the primary relationship) will capitalize on this vulnerability. So will accountability dodgers, and conflict avoiders. It's much easier to have the BS begin to wonder if they're going crazy,or believe that they're overreacting/insecure/overly jealous, etc. than be truthful and deal with the inevitable fallout.While the BS is busy dissecting and examining their own reactions--they're no longer on the WS's back. I don't believe that most WS's set out with the deliberate intention of driving their partner crazy--I think usually, it's the WS being in state of complete self-absorption, and being oblivious to how the BS is being affected.The BS's feeling are hardly a blip on their radar, when a WS is enmeshed with an AP. Whether the gaslighting is deliberate or not--the effect is still the same for the BS---they go through the agony of self-doubt created by no longer trusting their own perceptions.It does a lot damage, insidiously. It makes it all the harder to recover and reconcile in the aftermath of an affair, when the BS has been gaslighted. Often times the initial reaction to learning the whole truth is one of relief: "At least I know I'm not crazy now!My radar WAS working properly!" Then the anger sets in . Justifiably. Not only was the WS betraying the marital vows--they chose to control your reality by withholding the information that would allow you to make an accurately informed decision about continuing to invest in your marriage. Why does a WS do this? For some, it's a power trip, they feel superior at being able to pull the wool over their BS's eyes. (sick, I know)But for most--I think it boils down to conflict avoidance, and dodging accountability/consequences. Pure selfishness.And immaturity--like a juvenile who's done something wrong , but absolutely refuses to admit it, and own up to it. Hope that helps--I'd also like to recommend that you read up on "trickle-truthing"--it does seem like that's what your wife has been doing.Drip feeding small amounts of truth, while withholding the bulk of it. It's like a form of emotional water torture.All it does is prolong the agony for the BS.It makes it that much harder to move on. (there was a great thread on gaslighting here during the summer, I believe, a lot of poster shared their experiences with it. It might be helpful to you.. If I can find it, I'll post the link.)
freestyle Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 here's the link to the thread on gaslighting: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=241532&highlight=Gaslighting I've found when I'm dealing with a topic that isn't easily defined, it's helpful to read the stories of others who've been through it. It puts things in terms that I can understand and empathize with, much more than a dry, technical text. Hope this helps, Bob.
Author bob44 Posted January 3, 2011 Author Posted January 3, 2011 Thanks for the info on gaslighting. It's very interesting.
whichwayisup Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 I have tried that several times. The last time was November of last year. She got upset and said "I've told you several times that he was just a friend. I wish you would believe me". Probably one of my problems is that I back off when she gets upset, because I think from that point forward whatever she says to me is probably a lie. If the guy is JUST a friend then it shouldn't matter if you meet him. It would be no big deal, infact, maybe you'd be his buddy too. NExt time don't back off, pressure her. Ask her how SHE would feel if you had a woman friend, and gave excuses as to why your wife couldn't meet your lady friend. I'd bet she would be upset, pissed off and jealous. Yes, she is probably lying to you..More than you know. Or just omitting truths to suit her best. No but I looked it up. That comes from the movie Gaslight in 1944 in which the husband is trying to drive his wife insane. I don't believe my wife is trying to drive me insane. However, I would like to see the movie. She probably isn't gaslighting you on purpose to drive you insane, no big plan there, but selfishly and in her affair-fogged mind, she IS gaslighting you by the way she is treating you, dimissing your feelings and questions and turning it on you.
freestyle Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 If the guy is JUST a friend then it shouldn't matter if you meet him. It would be no big deal, infact, maybe you'd be his buddy too. NExt time don't back off, pressure her. Ask her how SHE would feel if you had a woman friend, and gave excuses as to why your wife couldn't meet your lady friend. I'd bet she would be upset, pissed off and jealous. Yes, she is probably lying to you..More than you know. Or just omitting truths to suit her best. She probably isn't gaslighting you on purpose to drive you insane, no big plan there, but selfishly and in her affair-fogged mind, she IS gaslighting you by the way she is treating you, dimissing your feelings and questions and turning it on you. This is the point I was trying to make.......whether there's a deliberate plot or not, she's withholding information---which still equals deception. No matter what her intentions are--the consequences, the effect is the same for you, Bob.You were given the runaround when you asked her before, that's why it's still eating at you two years later.Nagging in the back of your mind. WWIU is absolutely right--if this was an innocent friendship, there should be no problem with you being able to meet her "friend".It's time to hold her feet to the fire, and don't back down. The shoe on the other foot analogy might get through the fog as well. I doubt your wife would feel comfortable with you having a female friend that she wasn't allowed to meet.
ConflictedGuy27 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 freestyle, your post describing gaslighting was, by far, the most well written post I've read on LS. well done. excuse that, OP, I had to mention that. now then; my $.02 regarding your situation: the odds are extrodinarily high that your wife has been cheating on you... let's just put down the denial & call a spade a spade here. what's more, you continue to do yourself psychological harm by continuing to (i) turn a blind eye; & (ii) be so accepting of her gaslit rebuttals, when you know they're bullsh*t... (yes, YOU KNOW she's full of it because you created this thread). so what now, OP? you've successfully determined that talk is cheap. IMHO, I only see two options, both of which lead to dealing with the fallout that will inevitably come: 1. call her on her BS, without concrete proof, and proceed as though you would if you had it (i.e. serve her with divorce papers); or 2. commence snooping, covertly, and blow this thing wide open. I'm sure you've read enough around LS to know that snooping, more often than not, yields the painful, semi filtered truth. go get it, if that's the confirmation you need. to do anything else tells me that your problems are indeed self inflicted, & therefore, deserved.
imagine Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Bob, You need resolution: Your main question is "Was my wife emotionally involved with OM?" Second question "Is the contact still continuing?" She has to realise that your trust of her has diminished. Arrange an appointment with a polygraph operator. Should she turn the appointment down -you have your answer to the first question... If you want the answer to the second, contact your lawyer! Interim, you might want to send her "Joseph's letter" -see marriage builders articles for a description.
Author bob44 Posted January 4, 2011 Author Posted January 4, 2011 You need resolution: Your main question is "Was my wife emotionally involved with OM?" Second question "Is the contact still continuing?" She has to realise that your trust of her has diminished. Arrange an appointment with a polygraph operator. Should she turn the appointment down -you have your answer to the first question... If you want the answer to the second, contact your lawyer! Interim, you might want to send her "Joseph's letter" -see marriage builders articles for a description. I am deceiving myself if I think the answer to question #1 is no. The second question is what I don't know. I read Joseph's letter and I think it reflects the way I feel. I think I'll use it with some modifications.
ConflictedGuy27 Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) a letter???? get out of here... I know you're hurting & I know it's hard; but damnit man, don't send a foofy little letter. why the heck are you opting to be so civil man?! need I remind you she's been sucking another guys meat for God knows how long, she's been having sex behind your back and gaslighting you everytime you raise an eyebrow & you want to send a letter?!?!?! you are not adequately pissed off here, guy. believe me, I was Mr. F*cking Nice-Guy too (for awhile) during my time in your shoes. kicking some ass (figuratively speaking), taking names and showing guts is EMPOWERING and frankly, you need to impress yourself right now. IMHO, letters and other random acts of civility are for those that deserve it. tell me how your lying, cheating wife qualifies for this. start snooping if that's what it takes to piss you off and get you in gear. for some, all you've been through would be enough; but I suppose some people need to actually witness their wives voluntarily getting plowed to get the message... Edited January 4, 2011 by ConflictedGuy27
Author bob44 Posted January 4, 2011 Author Posted January 4, 2011 I know you're hurting & I know it's hard; but damnit man, don't send a foofy little letter. why the heck are you opting to be so civil man?! This is called Joseph's letter and it must have been sent in the olden days. Nowdays I would use email instead. http://www.marriageforlife.biz/Josephs_Letter.html Your point is why not just confront her instead. I've tried, and she always becomes defensive and I don't think I get my point across. After every conversation I feel like she's won and I wind up feeling worse than I did before we had a conversation. By doing it in a email I will stand a better chance of getting my point across.
whichwayisup Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 This is called Joseph's letter and it must have been sent in the olden days. Nowdays I would use email instead. http://www.marriageforlife.biz/Josephs_Letter.html Your point is why not just confront her instead. I've tried, and she always becomes defensive and I don't think I get my point across. After every conversation I feel like she's won and I wind up feeling worse than I did before we had a conversation. By doing it in a email I will stand a better chance of getting my point across. Write a letter, put your hurt anger frustration into words, print it out, sit her down and let her read it with you there. Take control and DO NOT let her talk her way out of it. Stand up to her, be assertive and tough! To be passive and let her walk all over you and not YELL at her to MAKE her hear you out is crazy! She WINS every single time. Are you afraid of conflict? Of pissing her off? Of dealing with her? Of having a real emotional let loose argument/fight? yelling match? That HAS to happen if you want to get through to her! Who gives a flying crap if she gets defensive. She is playing you, manipulating you as she knows you'll back down if she reacts a certain way.
seibert253 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Listen, I was kind of like you. I would "give in" just for the sake of "domestic harmony". I kind of continued that early after I thought something was going on, and for about 12hrs, after Dday. Then my best friend told me, "take charge of your M or it's gonna end up in the toilet". I thought, well it's already there so what can I lose. I "laid down the law", and basically told my W, if you wish to remain M'd, this is what you need to do, and this is how it's gonna be. Then I stood my ground. She tried all the tricks to get me to cave and budge. Nope, I stood my ground. Who saw the light and changed; her. Funny, after our 1st HB session, she told me how me being firm, standing and fighting for our M, and "putting her in her place", was such a turn on to her.
ConflictedGuy27 Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Write a letter, put your hurt anger frustration into words, print it out, sit her down and let her read it with you there. this here contradicts the following: Take control and DO NOT let her talk her way out of it. Stand up to her, be assertive and tough! To be passive and let her walk all over you and not YELL at her to MAKE her hear you out is crazy! She WINS every single time. Are you afraid of conflict? Of pissing her off? Of dealing with her? Of having a real emotional let loose argument/fight? yelling match? That HAS to happen if you want to get through to her! Who gives a flying crap if she gets defensive. She is playing you, manipulating you as she knows you'll back down if she reacts a certain way. words, whether written, or spoken, have proven futile. OP's wife knows how to deal with him. a letter is a cop out. think about the most disrespectful act you can, OP... go ahead. I'll do the same... got yours?? I'll share mine: how about burning the American flag? or posting a burning swastika in the ground near a Jewish synagogue? not good enough? how about I find the grave of the most revered, late family member of yours piss all over it... SCREW all that!! you should want to paint the walls with my brain; or minimally beat the sh*t out of me... recall that one emotion called "anger", do you?? that's right you dont recall... instead, you wanna write me a letter?! better yet, you want to hand it to me & sit quietly while I read it aloud, hoping I somehow feel some remorse?? that's garbage OP!! your wife has done all of the above and more to your M. she's ripping it apart like a rabid animal & you still want to negotiate??? do what you're going to do, but be forewarned, handing her that letter will backfire. it's EXACTLY what you've been doing thus far - talking... if you want to hand your wife a piece of paper, download the form required to file a divorce, fill that out, file and SERVE her ass personally. her disrespect knows no bounds and that's all because you're a doormat. she's cheating on you, bro. I.e. disrespecting you! negotiation time is over, IMO. Edited January 5, 2011 by ConflictedGuy27
imagine Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Bob, there must be a consequence to her responses. Is there anyone who can intermediate for you (the letter does this). How can you expose the events. Is there anyone at her work place that can be contacted? Approach them as someone who is trying to save their marriage. Unfortunately the time line with OM is very long. Do NOT use threats against your wife to establish details. Let her come to you! Your question should be "Why did OM cease contact with you?" Lock on this question to satisfy your inquiries.
imagine Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Bob, there must be a consequence to her responses. Is there anyone who can intermediate for you (the letter does this). How can you expose the events. Is there anyone at her work place that can be contacted? Approach them as someone who is trying to save their marriage. Unfortunately the time line with OM is very long. Do NOT use threats against your wife to establish details. Let her come to you! Your question should be "Why did OM cease contact with you?" Lock on this question to satisfy your inquiries.
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