catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Hi Just thought I would ring in 2011 with a nice story. NOW before the men here say something like, 'those guys are wussy's" or "they only said that cause they were on the spot" please hear me out. I went to party last night, good friends, and some new people also came to party. My friend has a ritual of having everyone go around room at midnight and tell what you were grateful for last year, or some special moments, and what you are eager for in next year. The women that went around room spoke of things like a great new position on a board of a non profit, or goals they reached, or friendships, or a special weekend away with their sig other, or a new potential job, etc etc. THE MEN that spoke, and I knew about 4 and did not know two of them, spoke abt the women in their lives. YES the women were there, but, what came out of their mouths was so sweet, connected, kind and real. THESE are not girly men, they are guys guys, believe me, but good guys and compassionate men who appreciate good women and are not afraid to show it. The men that spoke said things like "the best part of 2010 was my one yr anniversary" or "I lucked out that I got engaged to this woman, I dont deserve her, but man has she changed my life" and "I could not ask for a better woman and life than I have now". I know these men, and some were wayword in their youth and adulthood and make some, lots, of bonehead moves...and they are now a bit more grown, 40 yrs old, some 50...and appreciate the love, and support, of a good woman. I have witnessed huge change, growth in them, through good relationships... the women are equally happy with their men, but it was interesting that what the men shared, was so personal and heartfelt and even more sappy and loving than the women. The women are kind, giving women, but not lap cats, tough in nature, some, but good quality and know how to give and take and be in something real...so it was a magical and real moment. No hype, no bull*, just real people being appreciative for who and what they have. The women love on their dudes, but dont expect them to be perfect or try to change them too much, how bout that?? lol It touched me. Men, there are good women out there, and ladies, there are good men.... YES these couples have issues, as we all do, but their bonds and friendships are tight. I know them Pls dont ruin my mood, lol, spoil my happy moment and post negative stuff, in response...i just simply wanted to share something good. Pls dont ask me if these people are in honeymoon stage or too drunk, or blah blah, they are not, they are good, cool, fun people, with longevity in their relationships, (most) and are delighted to be with someone good. LETS SAY A BIG YAHOOOOOO. Made me happy. ((hugs)) and we all can get along, lol..tee hee;) Happy NY LS, happy New Year.
Woggle Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 I hate to spoil your moment but I wonder how these men's wives and girlfriends feel. I hear many men talk like this but rarely hear women talk like this about their men. I hate to say it but in a few years some of these men won't be so happy because there is a huge gap between a man views his relationship and how a woman views it. I am sorry for being negative but sadly that is the truth.
LifeIsGreat Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Yahoo INDEED!!! Good lesson for 2011. Let's make a pack... The next time we date someone, let them go the moment it's obvious that it's going to take too much work to make a relationship work. Yes, LTR's require work, but it shouldn't be THAT hard. Keep an eye out for the red, orange, and yellow flags. You see a red flag (which is usually apparant pretty early in the dating stage)- bolt! Let's not settle. Keep an open mind and open heart and look for the right S.O. So many of us stay in relationships that our gut tells us won't/can't work. Then for some reason we are suprised when it doesn't work out, and become heart broken. What say you??
TheWatcher Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 I hate to spoil your moment but I wonder how these men's wives and girlfriends feel. I hear many men talk like this but rarely hear women talk like this about their men. I hate to say it but in a few years some of these men won't be so happy because there is a huge gap between a man views his relationship and how a woman views it. I am sorry for being negative but sadly that is the truth. I,100% totally agree with you Woggle.I'm sure some women do express appreciation for their partners but I don't think it's as common.Do you think that it might stem from some women's stance against doing/saying anything that will feed into a man's ego or make him feel good about himself ? Perhaps some don't want to be too expressive as to not make the man feel too comfortable.The thinking being if he gets comfortable...he'll start taking me & the relationship for granted ?
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 You know sometimes I hateto post on here, I do. I knew that I was going to get this type of response. It's cool...I expected it, lol I did not want to type a novel, so I did not get into everything that was said, (nor the history and background of these woman) and I had a feeling that someone or many would say something just like this and it just gets my goat....lol. You don't need to burst my bubble, dude, really..lol. I am over age 40 with enough scars, wounds, baggage and real life crap to fill 10 olympic swimming pools...so I don;t live in la la land at all...rarely. This did not magically change my mind abt men, women, it was merely a night with some nice positives, and good vibes and love...just a night. I am still wounded and bitter as many are, lol..but i can appreciate love in the air..and good men...this should something someone like you could appreciate in a post, a decent woman appreciating the words/actions of good men, and they are not even my dates....I think you are missing my point....and assuming things that are not there... It was a mere appreciation of some nice words said to and between people. What you did not know, cause i chose not to write a novel, that these women, whom I know well, (most of them) close friends, are very in love and love on their men in many ways, and show appreciation in so many ways...and have said so many times how much better their lives are for these men. I don't need to give everyone a novel and whole picture. This is what makes it exhausting sometimes, having to defend, elaborate, go the distance, lol and explain explain explain. Just let a sweet moment happen and take it for what it is...can you? It's not rose colored glasses, it was a nice experience, thats it. I only mentioned some of the things the women said to keep if brief, cause this post was about MEN being appreciative..and saying how nice that is.... It was merely, merely to say it was nice to see this mutual respect and love..and that men who speak their mind and heart are not pus*ys, but that it is appreciated, in a group of men and women, that men got choked up and said sentimental things. Women do this a lot, so I did not feel need to go there in this post. We are talkers and emotional, and let things out like this way more often. It was abt heart felt things and men still being real men (so they dont get bashed here for being puss*) but also men who can give back what their wives give them...love, attention, respect, gratitude. U can try to burst my bu:eek:bble anytime, I had a lovely, night, with lovely people and good healthy adult fun. Cant take that away from me ....and you, from what I know, found a great woman, after being totally screwed over ...right? It is my point, you can appreciate a good women, you have seen the other side....so well..there. LOL. You know a good woman and she knows a good man, and appreciates you, right? Not rocket science.. I might have you confused with another poster, but I thought you found a gem of a wife after being royally screwed.....these men were glad to have good wives and girlfriends too, are are being loved by good women, thats all. Ahhh as Streisand said "Don't rain on my parade". lol. I know these couples have regular issues and some big issues, but they have that thing, give and take, love, sharing, appreciation, effort, that many dont do, put time into ..thats all. ((hugs)) and happy new year I hate to spoil your moment but I wonder how these men's wives and girlfriends feel. I hear many men talk like this but rarely hear women talk like this about their men. I hate to say it but in a few years some of these men won't be so happy because there is a huge gap between a man views his relationship and how a woman views it. I am sorry for being negative but sadly that is the truth.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 Really? I guess I should have started the post with all the things the women do and say all the time about their men..... Gosh you all missed the point..really. My two friends are madly in love with their husbands, they are kings, they adore them, they tell them all the time, they tell everyone, in public, often. I am used to this as I see them a lot. At parties often the girls and loving on their men and being very open and kind...I did not post about women - was not my position...I know what the women think and do for their men. Surprise trips, detailed dinners, love notes, special surprises...they adore their men...which is why I like going over to their parties and hanging out with them. THIS POST was about the goodness of men..and I am suprised it has turned into what it has. The men being jaded about the post, rather than women coming here saying "I wish I had that, it sounds nice, I would love a guy like that"...or "how sweet" I FOR ONE, and hear me, am a very sensitive, loving person who speaks my mind, good and bad. If I adore a man, he gets emails, texts, cards, sexy texts, I build him up, surprise him with fun things, tell him how much I appreciate him, and how grateful I am. I feel touched when someone buys me a card or cup of coffee, they get a heartfelt thank you...cause it matters. I call a guy if he has a bad day, medical appointment, issue with his family..I tell him his worth and value and what he means to me, freely. I dont hold back, screw that...I DONT want to win or play games, I want to care, and show that...MY LORD dudes, really.... I dont tell someone I like him to get a meal, I dont tell someone he is awesome so he can buy me jewerly, I dont hold back love attention or sex - I dont punish you and hate on you...I am here to connect and care...not win and have war and get what I want...pls STOP painting everything with the same brush...thats an issue..really. Actually i find when I tell a man he is great, or that i want to appreciate him or ask him what more i can do to make it better, they get freaked out or shut down sometimes...some men are not ready for the love of a good woman...some men, as we can see, are so not used to being cared for and loved, they reject it and shut down pls get out of your own way, and see that this was abt something else..dont need to spin it into something bad...geez...really? There are a million and a half threads on here abt crap, issues, men hating on women, women on med, blah blah, depressing, real, honest hard...can you just let one post be what it is and believe that some women treat their men well and do a lot for them?? MOST of my friends have this dynamic who are in relationships and many, many are single, but those in LONG marriages, have decent ones...on both ends. LET IT BE -LET IT BE-OH let it be..... I,100% totally agree th you Woggle.I'm sure some women do express appreciation for their partners but I don't think it's as common.Do you think that it might stem from some women's stance against doing/saying anything that will feed into a man's ego or make him feel good about himself ? Perhaps some don't want to be too expressive as to not make the man feel too comfortable.The thinking being if he gets comfortable...he'll start taking me & the relationship for granted ?
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 So we have witnesses that we are so damaged from our past experiences, (a recent post of mine, diff. thread) that we have worn eachother out big time. here is prime example...we wear eachother out. You guys saw this post in entirely way than it's intent, or perhaps reality. You have obviously been fk* with enough that don't feel women are capable of good, honest, loving behavior, and the posts were about good men. WHAT IF this post was other way around, I can't imagine the responses. WHAT IF I said WOW I cant believe it, my girlfriends were saying the nicest things out loud, abt their boyfriends, husbands...can you believe it? They are so in love...Would you have come back and said "well they are full of it, they dont mean it, it will change, they want something back, they must feel bad for something, playing a game"...why is it that when I say I like that a good man can appreciate a good woman, it goes to something about women not appreciating men? I dont even get that....I am loving on good men, so please stop hating on your assumptions that good women would not do same. My pals do it so often I dont even mention it, the post was a hopeful one abt the magic of a good guy...why would a good guy, which I assume you all feel you are, why would a good guy not want to support another good guy and rather assume a woman would never return that...? These types of conversations are what drains me cause it seems often men and women cant appreciate a good thing for a good thing, it goes into all your own personal biases, history, issues. Rather than a spade being a spade, its a dagger or trick card. I admit i have these issues too, and sometimes when a guy does something really nice, i am waiting for a reason or an issue or something bad to happen. If I get out of my own way, sometimes and often I can see, a nice gesture is just that. GOOD women in this world are around, going through all the same hurts, pains and feelings as good men, who are not being treated well. They are many women out there that CAN and WILL not only appreciate a good man, but support, encourage, love and join him ....and be good people together. If your experiences tell you there is no such thing as a woman who appreciates a man, and cares for him well, I am sorry. But you are highly misguided if you can label ALL women like that. I do know there is a huge underappreciation of both sexes, but I know a lot of giving anad loving woman that are tight with their men, and close, and GOOD... I hate to spoil your moment but I wonder how these men's wives and girlfriends feel. I hear many men talk like this but rarely hear women talk like this about their men. I hate to say it but in a few years some of these men won't be so happy because there is a huge gap between a man views his relationship and how a woman views it. I am sorry for being negative but sadly that is the truth. I,100% totally agree with you Woggle.I'm sure some women do express appreciation for their partners but I don't think it's as common.Do you think that it might stem from some women's stance against doing/saying anything that will feed into a man's ego or make him feel good about himself ? Perhaps some don't want to be too expressive as to not make the man feel too comfortable.The thinking being if he gets comfortable...he'll start taking me & the relationship for granted ?
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 I want a man to feel good himself, not beat him down. We should build eachother up. I do think you need to keep eachother honest and on your toes, can taking eachother for granted happens easily...but what I enjoy about dating, if and when I do enjoy it, lol, it that kindess, consideration and appreciation of one another. I have dated many good men that through their kindness I got stronger, and better and that helped me do the same in other relationships. I became more forgiving, loving and verbal abt what they meant to me, because I had it given/spoken to me. I want a man to hear how much I care, and adore him, IF that is how I feel, I want to express that. Same way I am with my friends, very easy for me to say I CARE, I appreciate you, you matter, you being in my life enhances it. That comes easy for me, AND I KNOW and agree and see more every day, how it does not come easy at all for most, many. I do see it, cause when I do it, often, I think people are caught off guard, and not sure how to take it, friends expect it now, but new people, when they learn of how I interact and appreciate, it really is like some unknown experience..and people coil are afraid or un used to nice behavior and builidng people up rather than tearing them down. My motto is to show, tell, people they matter NOW, in this life, whether its brother, sister, friend, colleague or date...etc KUMBAYA my Lord, lol... let's hug it out boyz :-)
Woggle Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 I,100% totally agree with you Woggle.I'm sure some women do express appreciation for their partners but I don't think it's as common.Do you think that it might stem from some women's stance against doing/saying anything that will feed into a man's ego or make him feel good about himself ? Perhaps some don't want to be too expressive as to not make the man feel too comfortable.The thinking being if he gets comfortable...he'll start taking me & the relationship for granted ? I agree. They think they are stepford wives if they treat a man too well. My wife has been called a stepford wife because she is faithful and treats me well despite the fact that she is an intelligent and accomplished woman. I am sorry to rain on the OP's parade but when I hear men talk lovingly about their wives and girlfriends all I can think is that she probably resents the hell of him or she doesn't find him attractive anymore or even worse she has already betrayed him. I hear too many examples of men who though they had a great marriage only to have it blow up in their face to get all warm and fuzzy about this. To anybody this does not apply to I apologize but I have seen too many example to think it is just a few exceptions. Also if you get a group of married women or women in relationships together I have a hard time believing things would be so loving. I have overheard some conversations where women talked about their men in ways I would not speak about my worst enemy.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 You ended up with a good wife, so really, you know there are good women. Enjoy her and move forward. As to your post about many men who thought they had good marriages and the wives left or whatever, talked crap abt them, this happens just as much to women, so really, it is not an us vs. them, both genders get caught in this... Lots of guys are jerks and lots of women are mean, we know that, so let's agree...and be happy that not all people are devious a*holes. Actually, to the embarassment of others, lol, at this given party, the hostess greeted me with this sentence, verbatim (I got double pumped this morning, he pumped me, then he pumped my gas in the car). Appropriate or not for mixed company, we are all open talkers, she raves about him in front of people and to him. She sure as hell has "some issues with him" big issues, but she does not bash him nor talk smack, she may tell him, "honey, please don't drink another bottle of rum," or "I would like it if you did not open another bottle of vodka, we already had two," lol but she does not berate him, nor dumb him down...she loves him, in spite of his flaws and issues, and he has many, for real. You are not raining on my parade dude, I am just sorry you have found a great woman, a gem, and you still want to spend a lot of time saying how bad it is for most, we know that, we know how sucky it can be, but honey, there are just as many a**hole men as women, and there are plenty of men talkign smack abt their women...it is what it is. I hope and pray we can all, if we want it, find healthy, decent relationships. I am far from head in sand, I believe that one out of a hundred relationships is actually good or real...but I know I have friends in mostly good, mostly loving relationships and we spend time together talking about food, or fitness or hair, or football, not what a**holes their men are, quite the opposite, if they do speak of them, it's usually in a loving tone. Other friends have boyfriends who are less great, and meh it is what it is. YES most people are selfish, a lot of people cheat, a lot women dont appreciate men and vice versa, I get it. I am as jaded as most, but i sure am not so jaded I cant appreciate and support a good relationship when I see one, simple.....why be a hater and doubter all the time. I can be that 89% of time, and enjoy that others have love for 11% of the time. ((HUGS AND GROWL :-) (tI agree. They think they are stepford wives if they treat a man too well. My wife has been called a stepford wife because she is faithful and treats me well despite the fact that she is an intelligent and accomplished woman. I am sorry to rain on the OP's parade but when I hear men talk lovingly about their wives and girlfriends all I can think is that she probably resents the hell of him or she doesn't find him attractive anymore or even worse she has already betrayed him. I hear too many examples of men who though they had a great marriage only to have it blow up in their face to get all warm and fuzzy about this. To anybody this does not apply to I apologize but I have seen too many example to think it is just a few exceptions. Also if you get a group of married women or women in relationships together I have a hard time believing things would be so loving. I have overheard some conversations where women talked about their men in ways I would not speak about my worst enemy.
Stung Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 I agree. They think they are stepford wives if they treat a man too well. My wife has been called a stepford wife because she is faithful and treats me well despite the fact that she is an intelligent and accomplished woman. I am sorry to rain on the OP's parade but when I hear men talk lovingly about their wives and girlfriends all I can think is that she probably resents the hell of him or she doesn't find him attractive anymore or even worse she has already betrayed him. I hear too many examples of men who though they had a great marriage only to have it blow up in their face to get all warm and fuzzy about this. To anybody this does not apply to I apologize but I have seen too many example to think it is just a few exceptions. Also if you get a group of married women or women in relationships together I have a hard time believing things would be so loving. I have overheard some conversations where women talked about their men in ways I would not speak about my worst enemy. Please, Wogs, stop talking to your mother. You get warped for weeks after, every time. Your lens on this is so biased it's a bit sad to witness. Every time there's a thread full of women talking about how much they love and appreciate their husbands--and there have been several in the past few months--you read it but forget it the next day or dismiss it as some kind of aberration. When there was one thread with more male posters chiming in about their good relationships than female posters, THAT one you noticed, and called the ratios significant. Everything you see is filtered that way. Everything.
Stung Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 Hi Just thought I would ring in 2011 with a nice story. NOW before the men here say something like, 'those guys are wussy's" or "they only said that cause they were on the spot" please hear me out. I went to party last night, good friends, and some new people also came to party. My friend has a ritual of having everyone go around room at midnight and tell what you were grateful for last year, or some special moments, and what you are eager for in next year. The women that went around room spoke of things like a great new position on a board of a non profit, or goals they reached, or friendships, or a special weekend away with their sig other, or a new potential job, etc etc. THE MEN that spoke, and I knew about 4 and did not know two of them, spoke abt the women in their lives. YES the women were there, but, what came out of their mouths was so sweet, connected, kind and real. THESE are not girly men, they are guys guys, believe me, but good guys and compassionate men who appreciate good women and are not afraid to show it. The men that spoke said things like "the best part of 2010 was my one yr anniversary" or "I lucked out that I got engaged to this woman, I dont deserve her, but man has she changed my life" and "I could not ask for a better woman and life than I have now". I know these men, and some were wayword in their youth and adulthood and make some, lots, of bonehead moves...and they are now a bit more grown, 40 yrs old, some 50...and appreciate the love, and support, of a good woman. I have witnessed huge change, growth in them, through good relationships... the women are equally happy with their men, but it was interesting that what the men shared, was so personal and heartfelt and even more sappy and loving than the women. The women are kind, giving women, but not lap cats, tough in nature, some, but good quality and know how to give and take and be in something real...so it was a magical and real moment. No hype, no bull*, just real people being appreciative for who and what they have. The women love on their dudes, but dont expect them to be perfect or try to change them too much, how bout that?? lol It touched me. Men, there are good women out there, and ladies, there are good men.... YES these couples have issues, as we all do, but their bonds and friendships are tight. I know them Pls dont ruin my mood, lol, spoil my happy moment and post negative stuff, in response...i just simply wanted to share something good. Pls dont ask me if these people are in honeymoon stage or too drunk, or blah blah, they are not, they are good, cool, fun people, with longevity in their relationships, (most) and are delighted to be with someone good. LETS SAY A BIG YAHOOOOOO. Made me happy. ((hugs)) and we all can get along, lol..tee hee;) Happy NY LS, happy New Year. I'm glad you had a wonderful NYE and saw happy couples who gave you hope. Of course there are many such out there. I had a wonderful New Year with my husband, too . We took our toddler to the little town on the coast where we were married, stayed in a cabin, spent the whole day hiking and eating and wine-tasting and just generally ambling around exploring, and midnight found us together in the two-person tub drinking champagne. Believe me, there was love and appreciation up the wazoo.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 Stung thank you, this is helpful. I was really not meaning anything other than being happy for that for a brief moment in time, I could enjoy watching several couples in love, or like, appreciate eachother and was so deeply happy to see how emotional and open the guys were IN FRONT of other men, and not all these guys knew eachother. It was touching....I know some emotional and sensitive men who outwardly show their love, and I adore it... I have not often see a mixed room of some good friends and strangers, profess their love for eachother ...in this fashion. Loved it. My bubble is still afloat, have no fear... Please, Wogs, stop talking to your mother. You get warped for weeks after, every time. Your lens on this is so biased it's a bit sad to witness. Every time there's a thread full of women talking about how much they love and appreciate their husbands--and there have been several in the past few months--you read it but forget it the next day or dismiss it as some kind of aberration. When there was one thread with more male posters chiming in about their good relationships than female posters, THAT one you noticed, and called the ratios significant. Everything you see is filtered that way. Everything.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 YIPPIE yahooo. thanks for this post, I needed a little change of pace, really. I was spinning my wheels trying to make a small point, happy one... I am delighted you also had a good night. It sounds superb. AND I totally can't imagine a bad night if it involved champagne...ooooh la la. I am a wine lover too, so your day/evening sounds DIVINE...oh my. I had my share, too, lots of bottles poppin'. Thank you for chiming in and trying to help clear out some of the stuff.....I appreciate your input and keep enjoying your happiness... I'm glad you had a wonderful NYE and saw happy couples who gave you hope. Of course there are many such out there. I had a wonderful New Year with my husband, too . We took our toddler to the little town on the coast where we were married, stayed in a cabin, spent the whole day hiking and eating and wine-tasting and just generally ambling around exploring, and midnight found us together in the two-person tub drinking champagne. Believe me, there was love and appreciation up the wazoo.
Woggle Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 Please, Wogs, stop talking to your mother. You get warped for weeks after, every time. Your lens on this is so biased it's a bit sad to witness. Every time there's a thread full of women talking about how much they love and appreciate their husbands--and there have been several in the past few months--you read it but forget it the next day or dismiss it as some kind of aberration. When there was one thread with more male posters chiming in about their good relationships than female posters, THAT one you noticed, and called the ratios significant. Everything you see is filtered that way. Everything. I guess you do have a point but it is not just my mother though her spending christmas with the woman that shot at me still pisses me off. I love to pretend that this situation doesn't bother me but it does. I just feel like I have to be constantly vigilant to protect myself against misandry and when I see it I spring into defense mode for my gender. I feel that nobody else has men's back so I get hyper sensitive when I see a man being attacked or wronged. I see so many situations that fit the nightmare scenarios that I describe. I grew up hearing all the time from not just my mother but all her friends that married women only pretend to be happy because they are scared of being independent but deep down they all envy women like her. I hear that and then I see what my best friend went through. I don't like the jerk he has become but the women who chewed him and spit him out helped create this monster. I am so afraid to take these walls down because I feel the minute I do I end up another casualty in the battle of the sexes. Do you think I actually like being this way?
Woggle Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 This thread right here is the kind of thing that just gets my blood boiling. I read stuff like this and for a few minutes I can live without never speaking to another woman again. That feeling subsides but this kind of thing keeps me bitter. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t259131/
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 Woggle I am guessing others are not wieghing in much because they know you and how hurt you are/were so it's like they have gone to this dance with you already. I am new, and my dancing feet are all worn out just from this thread I posted. I can't clear your eyes, heal your wounds, give you a come to Jesus moment, or an "AHA" moment, I can only tell you this. TRY to start noticing the good in women, if and when you see it, acknowledge it, and move on. You can be skewed, protective, defensive, angry all you want, I can't change that. DO yourself a favor, PAY ATTENTION to the good. Just for 5 minutes, seconds. It's hard but it's there. DUDE I pulled myself out of three life ending health issues, still sick as hell to this day, but I SAW A shimmer of hope, light, and hung on to that for dear life. I did not believe I would get better, but I did pretend I would. If and when I could laugh, walk, lift my own head off the pillow, it was a small victory, until there were a few more small victories. Over time, the baby nuggets became bigger..and grew. My point, (GOSH I RAMBLE) is that maybe you can see a sliver, just a tiny sliver of good, kindness, whatever in SOME women, they it is a start. You can still believe all women are liars or beeyyotches or whatever, but maybe you can tell yourself that maybe just one or two are ok, or not horrible. Then maybe once you see that, you will open up, take off the lens, and see that maybe there are 10 decent women in the world who dont want to f* with you, or others, and are merely just decent people with the ability to love and like and care, and not be sneaky wenches. OKAY my dance, sermon is done, these achy feet are tired..this is hard therapy dude, dont u want to try and just loosen up a bit, its making me tense and exhausted and to live it everyday, all day, must eat away at you... here is an outstretched arm and virtual handshake, from one decent human being (woman in fact, lol) to another god bless I guess you do have a point but it is not just my mother though her spending christmas with the woman that shot at me still pisses me off. I love to pretend that this situation doesn't bother me but it does. I just feel like I have to be constantly vigilant to protect myself against misandry and when I see it I spring into defense mode for my gender. I feel that nobody else has men's back so I get hyper sensitive when I see a man being attacked or wronged. I see so many situations that fit the nightmare scenarios that I describe. I grew up hearing all the time from not just my mother but all her friends that married women only pretend to be happy because they are scared of being independent but deep down they all envy women like her. I hear that and then I see what my best friend went through. I don't like the jerk he has become but the women who chewed him and spit him out helped create this monster. I am so afraid to take these walls down because I feel the minute I do I end up another casualty in the battle of the sexes. Do you think I actually like being this way?
Woggle Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 I appreciate it and I truly do but I feel like it is 2nd nature at this point. I don't know how to be any other way without becoming like my father who was a doormat. Somebody mentioned in this thread that some women feel they are being stepford wives by showing any kindness to a man. I am sort of the male version of that in the sense that I feel if I give even an inch and show some gentlemanly behavior that I will be a doormat. I am determined to stay a strong man and not repeat the mistakes of my father. He had a very hard life but he can know that his son did not fall into the same trap that he did.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 I hope you are seeing therapist or counselor to work through some of this? It's admirable that you don't want to repeat the patterns of your father or whomever you don't want to be like....but at what cost? Kindness may find you kindness, showing gentelmanly behavior may give nice behavior back to you. Certainly if you have such agression or issues or beliefs about woman, and it comes out this boldly, it will be hard to change the responsive factor. I am a patient and loving person, so I choose to stay in this dialogue with you because i feel the painful struggle you are going through. BUT you are the only one who can help change this dynamic. Not me, and perhaps not others here, though I have seen a lot of people who seem to know you well, try and help you...a lot of them. Some were even women, lol. Learn to laugh at yourself a little, and just not be ready for battle every second...see, you showed a softer side here, and I did not beat you up and walk all over you, I respond in kind. You showed a vulnerable side which did not make me try to control or abuse you, but helps me understand you. Not so bad right? I dont need or want anything from you, but I prefer a kind, open dialogue, and we now have that. Surely you could find a little more of this in your real world right? You are right in that it's hard to let defensives down. I have had to protect and boldy fight for myself my whole life, against major odds. Abuse, illness, the list goes on. I dont have a lot of reason to trust, hope, but at times, I do and I let down my guard. Do I get bitten in the ass 4 out of 6 times, maybe, but in my genious math brain, lol (kidding) that means that 2 times I did not get burned. just another way of looking at it. You have nothing to loose. you already assume that x = y, every single time, so if you take a risk and the result is still x = y, so what...??? I know this is way deeper than I could grasp or imagine, it's your life, your pain, your 'self' not me. But you have two options. Live this way and let it eat you alive every day, or trust that there is some room - just some room, to grow, open, trust, let guard down. Letting guard down does not have to equal doormat. There is a whole range of colors, options, sizes you are not seeing. Its not black and white..there are levels of letting guard down, or trying or seeing or feeling. It does not make you weak to want to help yourself and those around you. Imagine the effects this has on those you do love...our issues as humans, hugely affect those we love... If you care about your wife, and a few others, let a sliver of trust come in and worst thing that happens, you still dont trust...nothing that you dont already feel, believe and expect. You eyes are not open....take a peak, and look, you only have this life dude, one life..make it count.....dont live in a prison someone else set up for you....dont punish yourself more than others already have...no one has chains on you but you.......... ((hugs)) if thats appropriate, if not, i apologize. I mean peace. I appreciate it and I truly do but I feel like it is 2nd nature at this point. I don't know how to be any other way without becoming like my father who was a doormat. Somebody mentioned in this thread that some women feel they are being stepford wives by showing any kindness to a man. I am sort of the male version of that in the sense that I feel if I give even an inch and show some gentlemanly behavior that I will be a doormat. I am determined to stay a strong man and not repeat the mistakes of my father. He had a very hard life but he can know that his son did not fall into the same trap that he did.
Woggle Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 I truly do appreciate and every woman and man for that matter on here who has tried to help but learning to let your defenses down without becoming a doormat is not an easy thing. Stung is right that talking to my mother gets me in these moods. I was actually doing better until I talked to her. My repsonse to her and women who think like her is similiar when the hairs on a cat start standing up. It is intinct and I start going into defense mode. I am sorry for bringing this negativity into your thread but I rarely hear women being loving like this towards men and I wish the love would go both ways.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 Hi thanks for your heartfelt post, I appreciate it. No need to apologize, I just hate seeing someone suffer and you seem like a guy with a good heart who has been f*d with many times. I see/hear the internal stuggle, that it is so hard, and I truly get that. Believe me. I have deep rooted things and beliefs and wounds that I can't imagine healing, but the option is to stay battered, defensive, unavailable, imprisoned by it, and make my life a living hell because of the lack of others. That's just counterproductive. We let others beat on us till we are blue, so to speak, for years and years, and then we proceed to leave ugly situations and then spend the second half of our lives beating up on ourselves, and in turn others. We have to stop the madness, our own madness, and letting others suffer from our madness of being hurt...we get to choose...and get better...it's a conscious choice. A hard one, and I am not nearly where I want to be on the path, but I do take steps, that is all that is expected of us really...steps toward something more positive. We need to help ourselves and not let the past take over every single second of now, and tomorrow. You are choosing this behavior to avoid being hurt by another behavior, but it is not serving you well, thats all. The fact that you are aware, is a huge thing. Lots of people harbour a crap load of anger, resentment etc and dont talk about. It seems like you want to grow, and expand, so thats a good step...any progress, is progress....thats all you can do...make progress...:-0 or try to... You have my support.... have a great evening.. I truly do appreciate and every woman and man for that matter on here who has tried to help but learning to let your defenses down without becoming a doormat is not an easy thing. Stung is right that talking to my mother gets me in these moods. I was actually doing better until I talked to her. My repsonse to her and women who think like her is similiar when the hairs on a cat start standing up. It is intinct and I start going into defense mode. I am sorry for bringing this negativity into your thread but I rarely hear women being loving like this towards men and I wish the love would go both ways.
Woggle Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 The truth is that I am very torn. I want to give up this bitterness but to be honest I feel much stronger being the misogynistic jerk than I do the other way. I feel so week and emasculated when I suppress the urge to be this way. Stung mentioned the threads where women show appreciation to their and they just make my day because it shows that at least some women actually love the man in their life and don't resent the hell out of them. They do actually exist.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 Your married right? Or do I have that wrong? thought you met a gem of a wife...? What made you like her, trust her, be with her? Who are you at war with? Who is the enemy? If it's not your wife, then you have half the battle won. If you respect your wife, love her, and she loves you, you broke through the cycle. Obviously there are mommy issues, dont have a clue about your past, history there, but who else is there to keep you this pissed?? It's hard to keep a vendetta against all women, you are not winning anything, women will still be bitches and abuse men, and men will still be dk* and not appreciate woman..so your staying this way is not changing anything. If you are not "converting" the race or even part of the race, by being mad or strong, or unwilling to give in, then how have you succeeded? You are not punishing sh**y women, they are out there being sh**y whether you are mad or not. Find some decent people out there NOT to hate on, and enjoy the pleasures of that. F* the crazy men and women, and mean people, they can take care of themselves...focus on find a few golden nuggets of good in the few, rather than hate "the many" I appreciate and realize you wont be a doormat, thats awesome. Its huge, and you can celebrate that. You should not have to be, but being a prick or hardhead all the time can be just as exhausting as being a doormat, either way, its pain...right? I am not saying you are any of these things, but others may get the wrong idea and see your pain as being a mean or nasty person, when in reality, you want love and kindness....but i know, being a strong man, is honored and respected. I like strong men, I like secure men, but I like kind, giving and loving men, one does not trump the other, kindness and soul and integrity come way before just being a strong man. I wont go out with a doormat, it does not work, but I also would never go out with someone who is all about control, not bending, not showing love or weakness. I like it when a man can show it all, strenght, softness, passion, take charge, but sweet, etc. its gray, thats all I am getting at...just get your head out of "me or them" "black or white" and find some grat matter...lol I get the pleasure part...I do. Sometimes it just feels good to NOT give in and to stay totally in character and show others you wont take their s*. But you can do that and still be open minded, and not blame an entire gender for the wrongs of many. You are essentially doing what man haters do, and I bet you hate man haters...so how is it any better to be a woman hater...it just breeds hate ...I see you are a loving guy, I am not suggesting otherwise...just find a balance between doormat and ding dong, lol...cause you want to be proud of who you are, not just rule the world right??? just saying' The truth is that I am very torn. I want to give up this bitterness but to be honest I feel much stronger being the misogynistic jerk than I do the other way. I feel so week and emasculated when I suppress the urge to be this way. Stung mentioned the threads where women show appreciation to their and they just make my day because it shows that at least some women actually love the man in their life and don't resent the hell out of them. They do actually exist.
Woggle Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 I do love my wife but at times I even doubt her love. That has been much better lately but there have been times I felt like divorcing her before she divorces me. I just hate to see good men getting crapped on. It makes my blood boil.
zengirl Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 This thread right here is the kind of thing that just gets my blood boiling. I read stuff like this and for a few minutes I can live without never speaking to another woman again. That feeling subsides but this kind of thing keeps me bitter. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t259131/ Someone with your issues really should stay out of the Cheating forums, man. They can't be good for you. That **** depresses me, and I've never really been cheated on or mistreated by a man and don't have a lot of overall bitterness. (I mean, jerks of either gender annoy me.)
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