mr.dream merchant Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 Not sure, but everytime I voice my opinions and my standards/preferences, somehow I'm made out to be some woman hating, sexless, human interaction-less guy who doesn't respect women. Lol? I actually made a complaint to the mod about this. There's alot of angry, bitter, and hostile female posters on this board. As soon as a guy voices his emotions, and how he feels, he gets crucified with the quickness. Everything he typed turns into what he didn't say, and when he comes back to defend himself against words that were "put in his post", they just take that response, and crucify him again for what he failed to say. My question is...why should I have to constantly defend myself against things that I didn't mention? If I told you I had sex with a woman, and she's upset with me. Why must I come back and defend myself and prove that I'm not a misogynist? It's hard to seek help on this board when, as a male, you're constantly defending yourself. It's that damn syndrome some women have, you know, the one where you tell her you like her hair curly, and she attacks you with "Oh so you don't like how I usually wear it?!" What?! NO! That isn't what I said, so why bring it up, and argue over it. When you spend your life assuming on what people didn't say, it just makes every situation that much more of a pain in the ass.
Surrealist Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 I was going to say in my post above, as woggle and merchant have pointed out, I've observed that a lot of the women who are quick to jump down guys' throats with the 'misogynist' accusation, end up quarreling a lot amongst themselves when guys withdraw from such posts where they're 'pouring out their hearts'. I think the accusation is a symptom of their own issues, and manifests in arguing with other women when there is no prompt to argue against guys.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 I can only speak for me. I see many women haters and man haters here. I am neither. I think lots of people just to assumptions and blame, and I don't love it at all. I came here to learn from men and women, and hopefully do my best to support, explore or help someone see it another way. I have just spent good part of day defending GOOD MEN on a different post I created. Not all women are haters or out to get the man, I am here to speak, learn and share. If a poster is a jerk, I may say that I did not appreciate what he said, same as i would if a women tore me a new one. I have enough fight, strife and crap in my life, I did not come here to go off and accuse and blame, I came here to learn how to do BETTER in my relationships, and to understand men better, and my issues better. I don't want a war, I came here to get tool to stop the wars in my "real life" and take with me, better tools, insight and words than I had on my own. So, I for one, and open to honest, back and forth helpful discussions, but yes, it is true. I have had also to defend myself and explain and explain and explain and it is exhausting, I get that. It's part of being on a forum with strong willed, minded people, and people who come have something to say, vent, do, so it stands to reason this can be a temperamental battle ground. It resembles issues in real life between the species, hah? lol BUT I dont love the hostile tones the forum takes at times, and the blame, I wish it were nicer..but men and women say dumb sh** and hurtful **it and come with baggage, all of us. Some here are crazy defensive, some are nice, some and beginners, rookies, some had their hearts ripped wipe open and stomped on, so defensiveness and hurt and anger will be part of their mojo, it is what it is.... have a good day, and I am not a hater, just so you know...I have seen others on the boards that are not haters, just here like me to get some help and be of support to others. There are some cool, strong, smart women and men onboard, lets not loose sight of that. Lots of good people and info gets shared, some harsh, some great... Not sure, but everytime I voice my opinions and my standards/preferences, somehow I'm made out to be some woman hating, sexless, human interaction-less guy who doesn't respect women. Lol? I actually made a complaint to the mod about this. There's alot of angry, bitter, and hostile female posters on this board. As soon as a guy voices his emotions, and how he feels, he gets crucified with the quickness. Everything he typed turns into what he didn't say, and when he comes back to defend himself against words that were "put in his post", they just take that response, and crucify him again for what he failed to say. My question is...why should I have to constantly defend myself against things that I didn't mention? If I told you I had sex with a woman, and she's upset with me. Why must I come back and defend myself and prove that I'm not a misogynist? It's hard to seek help on this board when, as a male, you're constantly defending yourself. It's that damn syndrome some women have, you know, the one where you tell her you like her hair curly, and she attacks you with "Oh so you don't like how I usually wear it?!" What?! NO! That isn't what I said, so why bring it up, and argue over it. When you spend your life assuming on what people didn't say, it just makes every situation that much more of a pain in the ass.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 HMMM I will ponder this, thanks for your input... When I hear a guy pour his heart out, or even open up halfway and really want input or get something off his chest, I want to support that and help. Not bash him. That's just who I am. I am happy, as we know from my posts, to defend my posts or state how I feel, strongly, but never at the hands of trying to bash someone for sharing or feeling something. If a man posts something like "I loved this woman, and she cheated on me" my instinct would be to say "I am so sorry that happened" NOT "well you must have done something to piss her off or make her stray", it's simply not how I am wired. I go to compassion first, then will hear a story. I did not come here to prove men are evil, but to explore info and theories and thoughts from both sexes. Maybe this thread will open up some new, healthy dialogue. I KNOW I am hopeless about wanting to find a golden nugget and make healthy progress...lol. Surrealist: I do appreciate your posts and think they help bridge a gap here... I hope I can do that too... I was going to say in my post above, as woggle and merchant have pointed out, I've observed that a lot of the women who are quick to jump down guys' throats with the 'misogynist' accusation, end up quarreling a lot amongst themselves when guys withdraw from such posts where they're 'pouring out their hearts'. I think the accusation is a symptom of their own issues, and manifests in arguing with other women when there is no prompt to argue against guys.
mr.dream merchant Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 I remember seeing a post on here about a guy who got his half sister pregnant. I saw so many posters attacking him, when clearly, this guy was definitely in need of some serious help. It's sad, people just want to kick others while they're down.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 I did not read that series of posts, so can't comment, sorry. Both men and women on here sometimes have a tendency to do this (play hard, tough advice, etc)...at times...it's a tough crowd...but also a good one...it prompts discussions...and opinions...and learning...and knowing of self. We can learn what we 'dont want to be like' while we are learning what we "do" want to be like, so use it as info that helps you know what you don't want. It can be valuable...if you feel bothered or bashes or belittled or walked over by women here, then I guess it clearly tells you what you DONT want in real life. It is useful even if hard to swallow. This site has helped me see many things that I don't want in the real world, so take the tool, put it in your pocket and let it be a sign of what you no longer want or need, and surround your real life with people that dont make you feel this way. BIG lessons learned...at least for me.... peace out I remember seeing a post on here about a guy who got his half sister pregnant. I saw so many posters attacking him, when clearly, this guy was definitely in need of some serious help. It's sad, people just want to kick others while they're down.
TaurusTerp Posted January 1, 2011 Posted January 1, 2011 I was going to say in my post above, as woggle and merchant have pointed out, I've observed that a lot of the women who are quick to jump down guys' throats with the 'misogynist' accusation, end up quarreling a lot amongst themselves when guys withdraw from such posts where they're 'pouring out their hearts'. I think the accusation is a symptom of their own issues, and manifests in arguing with other women when there is no prompt to argue against guys. As a dude, I'd freely admit a lot of the guys on the board have unhealthy views of women and it's probably the base for their problems (I probably do too though, no glass houses here). It's not a baseless accusation when some guy is talking about how he's being taken for a fool by women in one thread and doing the exact same thing he's complaining about in another thread.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 Ah glad you spoke up, thanks. I think I have seen a lot of men who do this, and a lot of women who do this. Lots of really angry on both sides...stands to reason, the heat will rise. I am hurt and angry too, but am trying to gain perspective, and grow, not lash out...others are here for that purpose too, it's a mix. Thanks for your honesty, it's refreshing. It's a dating site, so to a degree, women think men suck, lol, and men think women suck..what a great place to start. This is the perfect breeding ground and foundation to learn, not to hold people down, pin them down, and beat them in the chest...silly really put people need to vent...I have been known to vent too, lol. For real. ciao As a dude, I'd freely admit a lot of the guys on the board have unhealthy views of women and it's probably the base for their problems (I probably do too though, no glass houses here). It's not a baseless accusation when some guy is talking about how he's being taken for a fool by women in one thread and doing the exact same thing he's complaining about in another thread.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 1, 2011 Author Posted January 1, 2011 Mr dream: You made a great point here that i overlooked. A lot of people here, or some, who post, really need help, big time, such as this person you mention, I assume. Instead of lashing out at these people who are really in a horrid spot, be it of their own doing, they need HELP....and helpful advice even if we don't agree with what they are doing. I did not read that thread, but to me, i don't want to beat up on someone clearly in distress and with huge issues...what's the point. I would prefer to empower than devour and spit out..just sayin' BUT thanks for pointing this out, it is a strong point, to distinguish between people who are in deep doo doo and need real help and people who are just venting about another shi** date or something. I remember seeing a post on here about a guy who got his half sister pregnant. I saw so many posters attacking him, when clearly, this guy was definitely in need of some serious help. It's sad, people just want to kick others while they're down.
paddington bear Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 The difference is, how one reacts to previous hurts. I've no problem with a guy who is afraid to dip his toe in the water and is perhaps a little vulnerable. In fact, that is rather sweet. It is when the hurt turns into bitterness: "all men" and "all women" are fill-in-the-derogatory-term. That is the problem, when past hurt results in anger and bitterness towards towards the opposite sex. You cannot love what you hate... I've noticed that if I feel hopeful about men, relationships, love that if I see loved-up couples on the train smooching or whatever, I think "aw, that's so sweet". But, most of the time I think "f**k you guys, rubbing your happy loved-up-ness in my face. I don't want to see it, I don't want to be reminded that I don't get to have that" and I HATE them. And that is not good, not a good attitude to have. I've said it myself when someone's hurt me yet again 'I hate men!' And in that moment, I really do. But I don't hate men, that is the problem! I really like men. What I hate is that not one of the many lovely guys who I have met and been attracted to wants me back.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 Well said and I certainly feel the same way, and have said the very same things, yet I don't hate men, that's "hurt" speaking.... I wish you better luck and love in 20111 The difference is, how one reacts to previous hurts. I've no problem with a guy who is afraid to dip his toe in the water and is perhaps a little vulnerable. In fact, that is rather sweet. It is when the hurt turns into bitterness: "all men" and "all women" are fill-in-the-derogatory-term. That is the problem, when past hurt results in anger and bitterness towards towards the opposite sex. You cannot love what you hate... I've noticed that if I feel hopeful about men, relationships, love that if I see loved-up couples on the train smooching or whatever, I think "aw, that's so sweet". But, most of the time I think "f**k you guys, rubbing your happy loved-up-ness in my face. I don't want to see it, I don't want to be reminded that I don't get to have that" and I HATE them. And that is not good, not a good attitude to have. I've said it myself when someone's hurt me yet again 'I hate men!' And in that moment, I really do. But I don't hate men, that is the problem! I really like men. What I hate is that not one of the many lovely guys who I have met and been attracted to wants me back.
zengirl Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 I was going to say in my post above, as woggle and merchant have pointed out, I've observed that a lot of the women who are quick to jump down guys' throats with the 'misogynist' accusation, end up quarreling a lot amongst themselves when guys withdraw from such posts where they're 'pouring out their hearts'. I think the accusation is a symptom of their own issues, and manifests in arguing with other women when there is no prompt to argue against guys. I very rarely see a woman write the word misogynist on this board, but I see men write it, feminism/feminist (using it in a negative way, though I don't believe it should be a negative word, of course), and misandry all the time. As far as arguing, I guess I don't find it productive to say, "There, there" to someone who is consistently creating their own troubles. The only way change will ever happen --- the only way anyone ever stops creating their own troubles --- is usually with challenge. I'm not saying nobody should have empathy, but I can't pretend to have an opinion that is supportive when someone comes on and says, "Why is this always happening to me?" and seems oblivious to the way they're ****ing themselves up. Not with men, and not with women. Especially when they attack those who aren't present, which is what a lot of the posts on here are. I think there's way too much, "Oh, woe is me, he/she did this to me," here, which is not to say you can't speak of the amazingly crappy things that happen to you. I mean, I feel bad for Woggle when he talks about his ex wife, but it doesn't make me excuse him when he transfers that behavior onto all or most other women, who've done him no harm, and when I can see that attitude does him no good. (Sorry, Woggle, just wanted an example, and you were an easy one----I will say you've gotten much better lately, and I have been impressed. And, at least, you take responsibility for your feelings lately, which is impressive in and of itself.) But advice and discussions don't happen if everyone just bashes the non-present parties, the demons people speak about. That seems weak and useless to me. As far as the guy who knocked up his half-sister, I saw that thread, and honestly, I read it all, and I had nothing to say. Because I don't kick people when they're down --- unless they're willfully creating their situations in shallow ways; his is already created --- and he seemed in need of help, and I had none. So, I get what you're saying that sometimes people just need to vent, and there are appropriate situations for that. However, when people ask, "What's my problem?" why is it insensitive to tell them, if you think you have an idea? And what does gender have to do with it? Men will do the same thing; I've seen it loads of times. In fact, in a lot of these "gender war" threads, you'll have men (and maybe women, depending on the ones I'm thinking of) on both sides of an issue and speaking of nuances as well. It's been rare that it's been a straight men vs. women thread, with ALL of each gender on opposite sides from each other.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 Helpful post...thanks QUOTE=zengirl;3174342]I very rarely see a woman write the word misogynist on this board, but I see men write it, feminism/feminist (using it in a negative way, though I don't believe it should be a negative word, of course), and misandry all the time. As far as arguing, I guess I don't find it productive to say, "There, there" to someone who is consistently creating their own troubles. The only way change will ever happen --- the only way anyone ever stops creating their own troubles --- is usually with challenge. I'm not saying nobody should have empathy, but I can't pretend to have an opinion that is supportive when someone comes on and says, "Why is this always happening to me?" and seems oblivious to the way they're ****ing themselves up. Not with men, and not with women. Especially when they attack those who aren't present, which is what a lot of the posts on here are. I think there's way too much, "Oh, woe is me, he/she did this to me," here, which is not to say you can't speak of the amazingly crappy things that happen to you. I mean, I feel bad for Woggle when he talks about his ex wife, but it doesn't make me excuse him when he transfers that behavior onto all or most other women, who've done him no harm, and when I can see that attitude does him no good. (Sorry, Woggle, just wanted an example, and you were an easy one----I will say you've gotten much better lately, and I have been impressed. And, at least, you take responsibility for your feelings lately, which is impressive in and of itself.) But advice and discussions don't happen if everyone just bashes the non-present parties, the demons people speak about. That seems weak and useless to me. As far as the guy who knocked up his half-sister, I saw that thread, and honestly, I read it all, and I had nothing to say. Because I don't kick people when they're down --- unless they're willfully creating their situations in shallow ways; his is already created --- and he seemed in need of help, and I had none. So, I get what you're saying that sometimes people just need to vent, and there are appropriate situations for that. However, when people ask, "What's my problem?" why is it insensitive to tell them, if you think you have an idea? And what does gender have to do with it? Men will do the same thing; I've seen it loads of times. In fact, in a lot of these "gender war" threads, you'll have men (and maybe women, depending on the ones I'm thinking of) on both sides of an issue and speaking of nuances as well. It's been rare that it's been a straight men vs. women thread, with ALL of each gender on opposite sides from each other.
Author catgotyourtongue Posted January 2, 2011 Author Posted January 2, 2011 Sorry ZEN GIRL I meant to just say thanks for your post, and not repost your post, lol, I am still a bit of a doooooofus on LS and learning.... Did not mean to make it look like your post was my post....that champagne from New Years must still be swirling in my head... I very rarely see a woman write the word .
Recommended Posts