Men-women, have we worn eachother out?

[catgotyourtongue]

Hello all

Feeling thoughtful after being on LS so much lately....it seems that men and women have just worn eachother out.

 

It seems men that i use to date, in my 20's or 30's seemed kinder, less jaded, more giving, etc. I am not creating a man vs woman haters club, it goes both ways. Men I meet now are just more jaded, burned, bruised, as women are, from our experiences, it's natural...but wow...boooo, hiss, wish we as people were way more conscious of how we treat others.

I never appreciate the great men when I was 20 because I had no respect for myself. i often feel badly for how and who I was to those men, I did not know better, at time, I was selfish and just in my own world I guess. I was giving and fun, but did not appreciate what it meant to have a relationship, nor what it took. I was lucky to have dated good men, it did pave the way for what i wanted later in life.

 

I see it all the time that woman are so jaded from men and major issues, and men are so jaded from women. We keep pounding on eachother, control, rejection, games....barf, barf...yuk.

 

I have seen many a nice guy and even ex boyfriends turn from really good guys to jaded and protective and players or just "I dont give a f* anymore because women have used, played toyed with them. I have seen the very same thing with woman. There is this whole FWB craze and it's acceptable, and there is casual sex and there is this, that and no one knows what the f* to do anymore or where they stand until after a while. It used to be easier...

 

It seems when I was 20, we used to just date one person at a time. They did not, nor did i, have all the baggage and pain and stories we carried from our past, because we had not lived it yet. If a man asked me out, it never dawned on me or him if we were multi dating. I would not have done it back then...it was me and you kid! lol...and I was not a girlfriendy type, very independent. BUT match.com. OKcupid these were not around...so these issues were not really part of the equation...if you had two dates with someone and did not hate eachother, lol, u were dating...there was not 4 girls in the wings...

 

I am way more jaded than I used to be, though i was never a relationship person, and self described commitment phobe. But what makes me sad is good, good men have been torn apart by less than good woman, used, whatever, and it has turned them cold, defensive, etc. rightly so.

 

Same for women. Some great women have given their hearts and souls, and been burned multiple times. It is very hard to then just go out and successfully date, whatever that means. Life has hardened us and sort of turned us against eachother. It's sad...really. We love, want and need eachother in many ways, and in others, just dont want to deal at all with the whole package. And marriage, sounds like hell, lol....always has. I wish that I could see it differently, and would love to, but most examples I see, dont look like something I want...yet I want a real, honest, and healthy relationship...Long term if possible..

 

WE HAVE worn eachother out.

 

I have many male friends, good exboyfriends who are friends etc. I know many good men, in my circle, yet most if not all are also highly jaded, whether it be their own demise & inability to look at self...grow, etc. or through bad relationships.

 

HOW DO WE CHANGE THIS? lol. I know we can't, but wouldn't you think with all the therapy, options, ways to live our lives, opportunities, chances to learn how to do better than our parents did and their parents did, why cant we do it better???? I know, it is life, but I just wish that we of the age of 40 plus or even 30 plus...could just let go of some of our baggage (in a magical world like Lucky Charms) lol..and start a bit more fresh.

 

We are all online posting about the first bad thing that happens, and what it means, and why, and it's exhausting to live in this world and date...for many people....(as she raises hand and flag, lol)

 

SO-HERE IS TO growth, awareness, cooperation, consideration and communication. I am all abt growth and self awareness and hope that other people, as they mature, will also look at their roles in this harmful cycle, and come to grips, and be a better person for their partners, self, kids...ITS TIME PEEPS GROW THE BLEEP UP and stop being so selfish....it makes me crazy....everyone is on alert, ready to roll, or react often. I have seen some great posts by @carhill and others and appreciate it when I can get another view and hear good, helpful words that encourage others to be on a path of betterness, in mind, action. AND let's STOP hating eachother and turning against, and use this as opportunity to learn from eachother...sometimes the posts and fights just make us more separate and add fuel to the already blazing fires between the genders...

 

I feel badly for men, good men, I do. you all don't deserve bitter, mean or selfish women, and good women, you don't deserve nastiness and pain from the men either. It's gotten out of hand.

 

Grateful for LS-really, am. But it sure can show you ugly underbelly of dating, etc. I already knew it, big time, but wow, LS puts it in your face HARD, hee heee.

happy new year peeps.

[january2010]

I feel that the world of dating, and relationships to a lesser extent, has changed quite dramatically since I was last an active participant. Social networking has a lot to answer for.

 

On one hand, I'm intrigued by all the little intricacies. On the other hand, it all seems rather 'high school' and a perfect recipe for paranoia and self-flagellation.

 

Do I roll up my sleeves, put on my war face and get stuck in?

 

Or do I stand on the sidelines in bemusement with feigned indifference and an air of 'I'm above all this'?

[catgotyourtongue]

:)First of all, I need to BE less long winded, lol. That would help a lot, so sorry for rambling post...my lord I ramble. I write way too much..

 

Tx for response, eager to see others as well. I roll up my sleeves and try and this past year, big time opened myself up to very many dating things, rather than living in my happy world with friends, social life...easy way out, and I love it. Not dating is easy:p. SO I opened up the field, and dating out of usual suspects, out of box, changed it up, and the more open I am, and was, it seemed the worse, harder it was. LOL. The more grown up I get, the harder.

 

I have learned a whole lot this year, though by dating a lot, some good, some bad, but it sure can help you look at self and see where you need to grow, change, relax. CHILLAX...

 

best of luck in the new year, I enjoy your posts, and have a good holiday.

 

I feel that the world of dating, and relationships to a lesser extent, has changed quite dramatically since I was last an active participant. Social networking has a lot to answer for.

 

On one hand, I'm intrigued by all the little intricacies. On the other hand, it all seems rather 'high school' and a perfect recipe for paranoia and self-flagellation.

 

Do I roll up my sleeves, put on my war face and get stuck in?

 

Or do I stand on the sidelines in bemusement with feigned indifference and an air of 'I'm above all this'?

[january2010]

We will see what 2011 brings.

 

Good luck to you too.

[joeLove]

It all comes down to one word: Communication.

People don't communicate anymore. We just shout at one another, it is either our way or the high way. That is a reflection of what's going on in society today. People who compromise are seen as weak.

[Distant78]

It all comes down to one word: Communication.

People don't communicate anymore. We just shout at one another, it is either our way or the high way. That is a reflection of what's going on in society today. People who compromise are seen as weak.

 

Hey, shouting is communicating. Just very loudly to make sure we hear each other.

[LifeIsGreat]

Yes, people ARE more jaded. The more crap you go through in life the easier it is to become jaded.

 

With that said, as you go through crap you have two choices. Learn from it and become a better person, or become jaded. For some reason, more people are willing to take the low road.

 

But there are still those of us who are still interested in personal growth and taking the high road. Frankly, I think it's going to take me time to find a woman I can truly be with long term-- and that's OK.

[catgotyourtongue]

COULD not agree more, amen, high five, and woo hoooooo. Communication...key to everything.

It all comes down to one word: Communication.

People don't communicate anymore. We just shout at one another, it is either our way or the high way. That is a reflection of what's going on in society today. People who compromise are seen as weak.

 

Yes way more people will take low road because it's easier, peeps are selfish, don't want to put in effort to make it healthy. I think online dating has made this a huge issue. There are so many other people just a click a way I think it makes people less likely to work through things, if they have been in the online dating scene...or are in it.

 

Lately I have found mostly really wounded pups, who were screwed by previous women, and have this, FWB only or no type of relationship at all attitude EXCEPT for on their terms. They want sex when they want it, want u to text back when THEY want it, and you to leave them the hell alone and expect nothing outside of that. It's like, "please come be my beeyyottch" two hrs a week or month and then get the f* out, lol. I mean it's not than bad, but as soon as you ask a question or actually want to talk or see whats up, they bolt or shut down or go MIA. Babyish behavior and avoidance..we all need to look at self and regroup...DOH!

 

It's been consistent ....and sad. AND i am not a clingy girl whatsoever. I am opposite, independent as hell, socially crazy busy etc., so i am not even trying to tie these men down so to speak, but history has burned them and instead of trying to learn, grow, reach, TALK, they walk in seconds flat. Sad...hah. anywhoooo life is a journey.

Yes, people ARE more jaded. The more crap you go through in life the easier it is to become jaded.

 

With that said, as you go through crap you have two choices. Learn from it and become a better person, or become jaded. For some reason, more people are willing to take the low road.

 

But there are still those of us who are still interested in personal growth and taking the high road. Frankly, I think it's going to take me time to find a woman I can truly be with long term-- and that's OK.

[catgotyourtongue]

lol

Yes, shouting is certainly an option!!!! Been there, done that, not so much fun..ha ha..tho I can certainly get loud..and sometimes it feels damn good...

Hey, shouting is communicating. Just very loudly to make sure we hear each other.

[pandagirl]

 

It's been consistent ....and sad. AND i am not a clingy girl whatsoever. I am opposite, independent as hell, socially crazy busy etc., so i am not even trying to tie these men down so to speak, but history has burned them and instead of trying to learn, grow, reach, TALK, they walk in seconds flat. Sad...hah. anywhoooo life is a journey.

 

I know. No one knows how to talk or listen anymore. And I even think some people want to, but don't know how or are scared to.

[Untouchable_Fire]

lol

Yes, shouting is certainly an option!!!! Been there, done that, not so much fun..ha ha..tho I can certainly get loud..and sometimes it feels damn good...

 

I think communication is better than before.

 

It seems to me that the primary problem is that nobody has values anymore. People just do whatever they can get away with and that's it. No reason to have any regard for others.

 

All I can say is that the last two women who cheated on me both claimed to have abusive cheating x/bfs. Since I suppose they can't take it out on those guys they try to take it out on me instead.

 

I'm pure cynicism at this point. I'm not sure if I can really 100% trust a woman.

[Woggle]

It means a lot when a woman tries to actually understand where men are coming from. When women do this instead of try to attack men who vent all that hardness and bitterness comes crashing down. Too often men come on here and pour their hearts out only to be called woman haters or misogynists and we are accused of trying to control women if we do not want to be cheated on. I have even had women not so much on here tell me that I deserved it because men have done it all the time. A man has that happen enough to him and eventually he just stops caring. I wish women on here would understand the deep pain behind much of this bitterness. The reason I lash out so quickly is because I don't want to feel that pain anymore that was forced on my damn near my entire time growing up.

 

I was like this after my divorce and to some extent I still am. I love my wife but I really do feel like I won the relationship lottery and I stumbled upon some rare gem. A good friend of mine would have women throw themselves at him yet he always stayed faithful yet three times in a row he was betrayed then women turn around and ask where all the good men are. It makes me so angry because I know so many men who would die for the woman they love but she couldn't care less because she is chasing after some scumbag.

 

You will eventually find a good man because you are one step ahead of most women in actually understanding where men are coming from. I am sorry if I come across harsh but that is how I feel.

[musemaj11]

Feminism happened.

 

Feminism removed all old accountability from women while it failed to replace it with a new one. So as a result, men felt cheated and began to fight back.

 

Thats basically how the gender war started.

Edited January 1, 2011 by musemaj11

[Distant78]

It means a lot when a woman tries to actually understand where men are coming from. When women do this instead of try to attack men who vent all that hardness and bitterness comes crashing down. Too often men come on here and pour their hearts out only to be called woman haters or misogynists and we are accused of trying to control women if we do not want to be cheated on. I have even had women not so much on here tell me that I deserved it because men have done it all the time. A man has that happen enough to him and eventually he just stops caring. I wish women on here would understand the deep pain behind much of this bitterness. The reason I lash out so quickly is because I don't want to feel that pain anymore that was forced on my damn near my entire time growing up.

 

I was like this after my divorce and to some extent I still am. I love my wife but I really do feel like I won the relationship lottery and I stumbled upon some rare gem. A good friend of mine would have women throw themselves at him yet he always stayed faithful yet three times in a row he was betrayed then women turn around and ask where all the good men are. It makes me so angry because I know so many men who would die for the woman they love but she couldn't care less because she is chasing after some scumbag.

 

You will eventually find a good man because you are one step ahead of most women in actually understanding where men are coming from. I am sorry if I come across harsh but that is how I feel.

 

Great post. Most of these women on here call us bitter because they stayed in their marriage with cheaters and their 3 kids, and are angry because we found the courage to get out of a toxic marriage. Just feminists and haters.

[westrock]

I think a lot of it has to do with unrealistic expectations that some people have and an inability to work through relationship issues.

 

Too many people, men and women, expect relationships to be perfect from the get go and to stay that way. No one is perfect, but somehow these people believe they deserve perfection and they expect their partner to be perfect. As soon as there is the slightest issue many people just bail because they believe the next person will be better.

 

If people were to be more understanding, patient, and accepting of themselves and their partner I think there would be a lot more happier relationships.

[Surrealist]

Interesting points, I think there's some truth to everyones' posts above.

 

Kinda reminds me of the paradox: Is it culture that creates society, or society that creates culture - something like that can't recall the exact words but anyway....

 

We live in a society where instant gratification is expected so people don't value the ethic of some hard work to make a relationship work.

 

But having said that, I think a lot of people, men and women, are jaded and it is little wonder. Lots of people use others and take advantage of people. Those at the other end may be responsible for not allowing such behavior but sometimes it gets to the point that the only way you can deal with such people is to severe them entirely from one's life, only to find that you don't have any true friends after all. This has been my situation, though moving to Canberra has certainly not helped where I had friends in Sydney.

 

The dating world similarly, people of both sexes looking to get what they want with little regard for the other person involved. Not having "everything" also makes me hesitant to try, with expectations of guys having to provide non-stop fun for a girl and have loads of dispensable money and so on, urgh can't be bothered much.

[catgotyourtongue]

I agree about what you said in bold

 

I think communication is better than before. It seems to me that the primary problem is that nobody has values anymore. People just do whatever they can get away with and that's it. No reason to have any regard for others.

 

I'm pure cynicism at this point. I'm not sure if I can really 100% trust a woman.

 

I am sorry this happened to you, I hope and pray someone worthy comes your way, and they are trustworthy enough for you to consider them. I have large trust issues too.

 

 

Woggle.

When I hear a man come forward and express his hurt or feelings I want to support him. It's hard to support people who have a real bitter attitude, women or men, but I am sensitive and see where men are coming from. I hate seeing men hurt and not heard, and controlled and belittled, just for the sake of it. Some men on the forum can be outright jerks and paint all women with one brush and be brutal. Nothing touches me more really than a good man opened up, reaching out, without too much hate to express what he feels, and wants to learn....or just needs support. I am good with that, not a man hater. We have all been battered in the war, lol:love:

 

Delighted you found a gem of a wife and are happy, that makes me smile and what's better than finding happiness. I am okay with where i am, not really a continuous dater, but when I do, i hope and pray they can have an adult conversation, be grown up and COMMUNICATE, give and take. I like my life...dating is hard, and sometimes fun, but mostly hard.

 

It means a lot when a woman tries to actually understand where men are coming from. When women do this instead of try to attack men who vent all that hardness and bitterness comes crashing down. Too often men come on here and pour their hearts out only to be called woman haters or misogynists and we are accused of trying to control women if we do not want to be cheated on.

 

I love my wife but I really do feel like I won the relationship lottery and I stumbled upon some rare gem. You will eventually find a good man because you are one step ahead of most women in actually understanding where men are coming from. I am sorry if I come across harsh but that is how I feel.

 

YES YES YES agree. People do not want to work, they want simple, easy and when it starts to be anyhting less, they want out...bye bye..I go in expecting it will be hard, and needs works, from day one, lol.

I think a lot of it has to do with unrealistic expectations that some people have and an inability to work through relationship issues.

 

Too many people, men and women, expect relationships to be perfect from the get go and to stay that way. No one is perfect, but somehow these people believe they deserve perfection and they expect their partner to be perfect. As soon as there is the slightest issue many people just bail because they believe the next person will be better.

 

If people were to be more understanding, patient, and accepting of themselves and their partner I think there would be a lot more happier relationships.

 

 

Agreed for sure. It's like people will work hard at their job, on their health, fitness (me included) with their friends, family, but not with a lover, date, sig other...odd hah? But then again some peeps are dedicated to many things and some just dedicated to themselves. I go full tilt with friends, work, the gym, so I am comfy in giving and trying in a relationship. I have a stick with it attitude in many things I care about, and never expect anything to be easy, work, life. SO I am willing to work. Lots are not.

 

Very little has come to me easy in my life (not complaining)- but have suffered constant signif. illnesses and major injuries, heavy stuff, and work my way through them. I never gave up, I never do. I think this is in my drive and DNA, so it also comes/goes hand in hand w/how I date, treat people. I have a lot of gratitude and real life exp, and dont expect some man to show up with a wad of cash or a shiny pony and diamonds to make my life better, it aint me. I expect it will take work, time, energy, comprimise, and a whole lot more, as most things do, if you are NOT a self centered person..which I am not.

 

Interesting points, I think there's some truth to everyones' posts above. Kinda reminds me of the paradox: Is it culture that creates society, or society that creates culture - something like that can't recall the exact words but anyway....

 

We live in a society where instant gratification is expected so people don't value the ethic of some hard work to make a relationship work.

 

But having said that, I think a lot of people, men and women, are jaded and it is little wonder. Lots of people use others and take advantage of people. The dating world similarly, people of both sexes looking to get what they want with little regard for the other person involved. Not having "everything" also makes me hesitant to try, with expectations of guys having to provide non-stop fun for a girl and have loads of dispensable money and so on, urgh can't be bothered much.

[paddington bear]

Totally agree with the OP.

 

The question is, how to change things? It's so easy to get hurt and bitter and to shy away from being any way emotionally vulnerable to prevent further hurt. It is a recipe for disaster in terms of people actually getting together in the first place.

 

But what to do about it? Rejection, loneliness, being played, being cheated on etc. causes such substantial pain that it really is hard to trust anyone ever again.

 

Personally I'm thinking of getting hypnotised to not want a relationship and to not want sex. Then my life would be so much easier and I could genuinely forget about the whole thing and just get on with it.

[catgotyourtongue]

Good point, I did not really identify this.

 

How do we wear each other out? I don't get that.

 

I think because of a lot of the reasons people posted, is how we wear eachother out. Unreal expectations, not wanting give but receive, not wanting to communicate, but walk, getting back at each other, punishing eachother, blaming new people for past people (not separating what is now from what was then).

 

We come to the table "worn out" I guess is more the point, because of our past. Does that make sense? What we have been through, we bring, and the past has worn us down to the bone sometimes, so when we come to the table of a new relationships, we are already torn, worn, spent so we have little time, patience, energy to give to actually try and make it work...sort of "been there, done that" and we want to run first sign of anything..or we are too beat down to want to change?? I dont know.

 

I choose to learn, grow, change, evolve, conscious decision, rather than to just expect the other to meet all my needs. That's silly. I don't mean I choose to do all the work or be a doormat, quite the opposite. I choose to give, grow, learn, and I sure AS HELL expect you to do the same, that's the problem. Seems when I want someone to grow or learn or communicate, often they automatically see it as nagging, due to past, due to how "she" treated him, his mother treated him, his dog, whatever...what I aim for, and try to communicate, is that what I am looking for is growth, connection, and mostly COMMUNICATION, not control, not revenge, not nagging. We are programmed to see what we want to see, sometimes.

 

COMMUNICATION is EVERYTHING, then good sex, good food, good music, and some shared values I hope. lol

 

Or maybe no communication at all, just good sex and chocolate, lol...and some nice Brie cheese on a crisp cracker...me-good. DONE.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Good point, I did not really identify this.

I think because of a lot of the reasons people posted, is how we wear eachother out. Unreal expectations, not wanting give but receive, not wanting to communicate, but walk, getting back at each other, punishing eachother, blaming new people for past people (not separating what is now from what was then).

 

You have a great attitude. Any guy with you in his life is a lucky man!

[catgotyourtongue]

AW thanks, that's very sweet.

 

i just think it's upsetting that lots of us want love, connection and can't get out of our own way to make it happen. I am a handful, to say the least, and not the marrying, wife type, so far...lol..but I see the huge value in how it can be, and could be, if people were willing to pony up, grow up, and meet in middle. . Put others needs first at least sometimes if not halftime...I know most of the time, it's impossible, but we can meet in the middle way more than we do. People just dont want to change, give up anything to try and meet in middle or even 20% of way.

 

Example: recently i dated a guy, good guy except for some major explosions when he drank, (its over, i had to get out)..but anyway. We had a conversation in which HE automatically assumed I wanted control and to change him, rule him. He for the life of him could not hear or listen. I did not want that AT ALL. I started convo with, "Hey i wanted to bring up something, and get "your" thoughts on it from your perspective before I make a wrong assumption"...(as i am known to do) Then I asked, politely, if this person was willing to consider doing something minor, (checking his email like ONCE A week) so I would not have to rely only on text, he does not prefer /like email, but uses it to pay bills..check in with work, etc. I knew he did not like email, so 99% of our communication was by text. Bad for me as I have two busted hands, illness/injuries which at times make it very hard to text..very. So I asked if he would not mind, it would be so helpful and appreciated if he could "maybe" check email once a week or so...cause i cant communicate everything only by text. HE also hated the phone...I was doing things HIS way 99% of time, and it got too hard, so I spoke up....not mad, just wanted to see if we could negotiate.

 

He immediately went it panic, control freak mode, i was trying to change him, own him. I was like "what" I am asking if you would be willing to meet me 25% of the way cause it really would be helpful. I know you dont like email and i would never expect you to check it daily, but if you could sometimes..blah blah blah. He was resistant, angry, u name it, and in HIS MIND I turned into the nagging, controlling person.

 

RIDICULOUS... So my point, people are not willing, wanting to even meet you 10% of the way sometimes..and that makes life very hard. Even when you approach it like i did, kind, loving and not my way, but a way that might make it 2% easier for me, he was like SCREW YOU, and like WHAAA WHAAAA I dont want to...so it's hard to live like that, and not a relationship I want, where such small things become mountains and contentious.

 

whatev' meh, lol. SO that is how it is..

 

thanks for your nice words......really

 

You have a great attitude. Any guy with you in his life is a lucky man!

[pandagirl]

AW thanks, that's very sweet.

 

i just think it's upsetting that lots of us want love, connection and can't get out of our own way to make it happen. I am a handful, to say the least, and not the marrying, wife type, so far...lol..but I see the huge value in how it can be, and could be, if people were willing to pony up, grow up, and meet in middle. . Put others needs first at least sometimes if not halftime...I know most of the time, it's impossible, but we can meet in the middle way more than we do. People just dont want to change, give up anything to try and meet in middle or even 20% of way.

 

 

I really agree with this, I don't know where this resistance stems from. I'm all about compromise, and some people just can't or don't want to.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I am probably one of the older members of LS. I have honestly been shocked by some of the hateful posts based on gender issues that I've read here, and the quantity of them.

 

I've been put on "moderated status" for calling a fellow member a "bigot" in response to such posts. I dislike being on "moderated status" so I will not do that again, but anywhere in my life where I encounter bigotry in the forms of racism, sexism, homophobia, or whatever, I have always called it.

 

Right up front I will tell you that I have many very dear, close men and boys in my life, including youngsters. We don't all agree on everything, but we have mutual respect and love; a lot of communication and sharing. The gender issues so rife on LS are not issues between us.

 

Woggle, I do understand where you're coming from. I hope you can understand, too, that coming to a board that includes women and "venting" in a way that generally debases women (excluding your wife) is going to get exactly the response from women that you don't want. I think it makes the whole sick cycle worse. I also have noticed that you're doing it a LOT less and I appreciate that.

 

If a man needs to vent about what he perceives to be inherent evil in women, perhaps he could find a place where women won't be in the line of fire of it. But, I don't think such venting is needed. I think it would be much healthier for him to leave this all behind and learn how to take women, and all people, on a case by case basis.

 

To be perfectly clear, I emphasize: I do not think that toxic people of any gender should be tolerated close to any of us in our lives. We owe it to ourselves to surround ourselves with as much goodness as we can - and to try to offer the same to others. Put another way: If a girl is a creepy user or something, move on! Quickly! Same goes for such a guy.

 

I'm also frankly stunned by the frequent trashing of "Feminists," "Feminism," "Gender Feminism," etc. that I've encountered here. Truly, I thought ALL reasonably enlightened people in this culture were feminists. I am not being facetious.

 

This definition of "Feminism" I got from Wikipedia, and this defines it well, IMO:

 

Feminism refers to movements aimed at establishing and defending equal political, economic, and social rights and equal opportunities for women.[1][2][3] Its concepts overlap with those of women's rights. Some people argue that gender is a social construction that harms all people; feminism thus seeks to liberate men as well as women.[4] Feminists—that is, persons practicing feminism—can be persons of either sex.

 

In the case of feminism; as with all social movements, the pendulum can (perhaps, must) swing too far when a "correction" is in play; re-calibrations, backlash, and adjustments are ongoing. That is not a good thing, but it is the way change happens. But really - as recently as 1966, women weren't even permitted to sit on juries (Alabama).That is recent history, you guys. In my high school years, girls did NOT have equal educational opportunities as boys did; there were also bizarre social mores forced upon girls (for example, in 1969 a girl could get sent home from my school for failure to wear a bra. The girl's dean was "allowed" to feel girls' backs to check! Girls were REQUIRED to take two semesters of "home economics;" one for cooking, one for sewing. Boys were not permitted to take these - and no girls allowed in auto or woodshop. I could go on and on.). Women in our society did NOT have equality with men.

 

Please hear me: I do NOT believe that women are entitled to / deserve / or actually get superior treatment to men in America today, in the big picture. I do realize that there are situations (Affirmative Action) where members of various groups (ethnic, gender) are benefitting from simply being members of whatever group. That does result in unfairness, but it might be an unavoidable part of equalizing. It won't be a permanent condition, certainly.

 

Gender, racial, etc. equality are GOOD for all of us. Unsettling movements have had to occur for our society to change.

 

On a much more personal level, I would really like you guys to consider how you would LIKE to relate to the women in your life. Do you want US to be your enemies forever? You are going to work and study side by side with women, you will supervise and be supervised by women in your jobs. You have moms - some of you have moms you love and respect; sisters too. You might have daughters one day, if you don't already. And unless you are gay, you are likely to be thinking about going through life in an intimate partnership with a woman. Wouldn't you like these relationships to be positive and enriching? They can be. And since you can't change other people, the change to a good direction can only start with each one of us individually.

 

Would you not prefer to be a part of the solution?

[catgotyourtongue]

AMEN, hear ya girl!

 

no one wins when the culture or environment says "ME ME ME" first and my way, is only way; it's a loosing battle if we all do that. Someone has to bend, and surely it helps if two people can work toward a better outcome, not necessarily, "my way" or "your way" but a "better way for both"

 

What baffles me is that even when you approach a situation this way, it's hard to get to a better place, it gives it a better chance, but it's still hard to find a balance. It has to be TWO people willing, not one..

 

happy new year...

I really agree with this, I don't know where this resistance stems from. I'm all about compromise, and some people just can't or don't want to.

[Woggle]

Totally agree with the OP.

 

The question is, how to change things? It's so easy to get hurt and bitter and to shy away from being any way emotionally vulnerable to prevent further hurt. It is a recipe for disaster in terms of people actually getting together in the first place.

 

But what to do about it? Rejection, loneliness, being played, being cheated on etc. causes such substantial pain that it really is hard to trust anyone ever again.

 

Personally I'm thinking of getting hypnotised to not want a relationship and to not want sex. Then my life would be so much easier and I could genuinely forget about the whole thing and just get on with it.

 

I think that honest communication between both genders is needed but it seems that some women don't want to hear our side. The ones that do I am willing to have a dialogue with even if they have their own vents about men. You listen to me and I will listen to you.