Yer_Blues Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Lol, these are guys who refer to THEMSELVES as narcissistic. I need not be the judge. I always associate arrogance with ignorance. Somebody with any real awareness of themselves would at some point be humbled by their behavior and understand that their **** smells. Self-absorbed people usually attribute way too much of their success to themselves or something "special" about them. Realistic, intelligent people realize their gifts and weaknesses and see things with a little bit more perspective than the narcissist. To love is to understand. The narcissist lacks awareness of himself, so how could he ever have the capacity for empathy?
Author northern_sky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 Out of interest, do you use self-depracating humour? And would you describe yourself as submissive? Sorry, I missed this. No, not at all. I'm introverted on the surface, but I'm somewhat on the aggressive/dominant side once I've grown comfortable with someone. In general, I'm very assertive, even amongst strangers. But at the same time I'm insecure and a bit shy in the presence of men I like. And I've been known to put up with crap because I really like a guy. It's a weird mix.
Dedalus Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Wow, you sound a lot like my ex! haha. He could be very caring, sweet and loving, but also dismissive or cold later. Just out of curiosity, how old are you? And have you ever been in love? I'm 25. I thought I'd been in love, but I look back now and laugh at myself for it. My ex was the closest to proper love... but I ended it with her, so maybe not (or not enough anyway).
Author northern_sky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 Eh...here we toe the line between confidence and arrogance...arrogance is the intentional outward projection of "confidence," and it's what people most easily pick up on, since it's so blatantly obvious...whereas confidence is either much much more subtle, or it's not outwardly projected at all, because a confident person doesn't need to show confidence...he just does it... You're right. I was going to edit that to external confidence. Aholes tend to be confident on the surface but insecure inside.
Author northern_sky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 I'm 25. I thought I'd been in love, but I look back now and laugh at myself for it. My ex was the closest to proper love... but I ended it with her, so maybe not (or not enough anyway). Did your feelings for her strengthen in retrospect once you lost her?
zengirl Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 OP, do the men you date have significant peer relationships and good work interpersonal relationships? i.e. Do they get along with people? Do they get along with men but not women? How do they interact with others? I'm not sure what makes someone qualified to judge somebody else as narcissistic. It's way too subjective of a label to just slap on somebody. I'm not accusing you of anything, but it's certainly possible that somebody who feels insecure with smart, independent people they cannot control to label THEM as narcissistic because their own ego has been injured. Sometimes, certain people I interact with think I'm trying to like impress them or that I'm arrogant, when they are just uncomfortable with the fact that I don't just subjugate myself to their values and opinions or apologize for my lifestyle. Again, I don't know your situations and don't claim to, and I'm not saying that the people you have been with haven't been actual tools. But I don't for one second buy that every person struggling with relationships is simply attracted to the wrong type. It takes two to tango, and you can't throw everything on partners. Interesting point. Also, NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) was actually removed from the DSM and is no longer a valid diagnosis. Just recently, though.
Dedalus Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Did your feelings for her strengthen in retrospect once you lost her? It made me wonder if I'd missed something that was there all the time. The girl is perfect and I barely know why I ended it...
Author northern_sky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 OP, do the men you date have significant peer relationships and good work interpersonal relationships? i.e. Do they get along with people? Do they get along with men but not women? How do they interact with others? Interesting point. Also, NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) was actually removed from the DSM and is no longer a valid diagnosis. Just recently, though. Yes. They tend to have a lot of friends, but failed relationships because they have trouble committing or they push girls away with their self absorption. They tend to be well liked because they are charming and driven, but they have trouble with intimacy. Also, they seem to lack a lot of close friendships. They may just have one truly close friend, and usually it's a guy.
Knittress Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 I think it's possible to re-train yourself in this regard. I too used to be totally into the aloof brainy guys. They never made me happy, although I thought it was all my problem and somehow my responsibility to be unconditionally tolerant and put my needs last. Maybe I thought I was somehow 'special' in getting a scrap of attention from the narcissistic guy, maybe in all my self-loathing and angsty drama-filled adolescence I thought this was the norm and/or I deserved it. Or maybe after the bipolar and abusive homelife I had come from I just felt safer with folks who were a bit cold-fish. But whatever. It didn't make me happy, but I didn't know enough of happiness to realize it. I then found a brainy guy who loved the socks off me and learned, for the first time in my life, what it was like to be happy in a relationship. And it didn't work out (and I'm still pissed at him), but overall I'm grateful that he showed me that I don't have to settle for a half-assed relationship and I'm worthy of being loved. Maybe you just need to try it?
Author northern_sky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 OP, do the men you date have significant peer relationships and good work interpersonal relationships? i.e. Do they get along with people? Do they get along with men but not women? How do they interact with others? Interesting point. Also, NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) was actually removed from the DSM and is no longer a valid diagnosis. Just recently, though. Another interesting common thread occurred to me. Many of them are natural introverts who were loners as kids, but have trained themselves in adulthood to be socially charming.
Star Gazer Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 My suggestion is to grossly overcorrect, even if it feels weird at first. One of two things will happen. Either you'll fall for someone who's far, far on the other end of the spectrum, away from the super smart narcissist, or, more likely, you'll swing back to the middle to find a very happy, healthy medium in terms of who you're attracted to.
Author northern_sky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 you'll swing back to the middle to find a very happy, healthy medium in terms of who you're attracted to. I hope it's this. ......
AverageJoe Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Basically not putting up with poor treatment, calling them on their ****. Also, intellectually challenging them by being able to assert your own opinions even if it causes occasional, friendly debate This is also, not what I thought you meant by challenged. The reason I asked is because I hear females toss that word around a lot and never really have gotten a clear answer on it.
sally4sara Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 This is the conclusion I've reached in trying to examine my broken people picker. Every guy I'm attracted to aside from the fluke of my ex shares these traits in common: narcissism, extreme verbal and analytical talent, dismissiveness, and arrogance. Basically the embodiment of my type seems to be a young Gore Vidal (if he were straight). I am sure it's because I was surrounded by men growing up who were variations on this theme. It's disturbing to me, because I know any involvement with these guys will only lead to heartbreak, yet I feel zero attraction to guys who fall outside of this mold. I get the higher verbal and analytical talent; sometimes these people, before getting to know someone well, come off arrogant and dismissive simply because they are very intelligent. I think of my mom's step kids and when I use to have to be around them. It wasn't their fault but they just were not very blessed in the mental intelligence dept and conversations with them was like trying to ski in gravel. I wouldn't be surprised if I came off dismissive and arrogant even though I really tried not to be. I'd continue to still gravitate to people with the verbal and analytical level you like and but be more mindful about their social skills. No matter how smart a person is, they can still be stupid about dealing with people.
zengirl Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Yes. They tend to have a lot of friends, but failed relationships because they have trouble committing or they push girls away with their self absorption. They tend to be well liked because they are charming and driven, but they have trouble with intimacy. Also, they seem to lack a lot of close friendships. They may just have one truly close friend, and usually it's a guy. Another interesting common thread occurred to me. Many of them are natural introverts who were loners as kids, but have trained themselves in adulthood to be socially charming. Maybe you put too much emphasis on "charm." A lot of people do. Really, I don't care about charm, as it wears off too quickly for my taste. I enjoyed it when I was looking for more dating and STR type stuff in my younger years, but charm is fleeting. Most people get more interesting, sparky, or fun the longer you know them, but these guys, the polish wears off quick. That's how I feel. I'd rather run the marathon than the sprint, so I try to look more for core values, rather than glittery charm.
Star Gazer Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 I hope it's this. ...... Trust me on this. I made a conscious choice and overcorrected with Skiman, in a big way. Granted, he wasn't a perfect person, but he was truly the opposite of every jacka** guy who came before him. He was so different. Because of that, he intrigued me, and I became intensely attracted to him and his type of person. (Putting "the end" aside) He really showed me how a good guy treats a woman he's truly into and loves; I got so used to it that I can't imagine ever settling for less. And now? I'm no longer attracted to the douches... AT ALL. It's as though he literally fixed me.
Author northern_sky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 Maybe you put too much emphasis on "charm." A lot of people do. Really, I don't care about charm, as it wears off too quickly for my taste. I enjoyed it when I was looking for more dating and STR type stuff in my younger years, but charm is fleeting. Most people get more interesting, sparky, or fun the longer you know them, but these guys, the polish wears off quick. That's how I feel. I'd rather run the marathon than the sprint, so I try to look more for core values, rather than glittery charm. You may be on to something, but I think it goes beyond charm, because I associate charm with a lack of substance. These guys have intellectual depth, but they lack the emotional component.
Yer_Blues Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 I get the higher verbal and analytical talent; sometimes these people, before getting to know someone well, come off arrogant and dismissive simply because they are very intelligent. I think of my mom's step kids and when I use to have to be around them. It wasn't their fault but they just were not very blessed in the mental intelligence dept and conversations with them was like trying to ski in gravel. I wouldn't be surprised if I came off dismissive and arrogant even though I really tried not to be. I'd continue to still gravitate to people with the verbal and analytical level you like and but be more mindful about their social skills. No matter how smart a person is, they can still be stupid about dealing with people. Yeah I agree with this completely.
zengirl Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 You may be on to something, but I think it goes beyond charm, because I associate charm with a lack of substance. These guys have intellectual depth, but they lack the emotional component. I only date smart guys, so I know what you mean. To me, those verbally smart guys are the charm machines (if they lack the emotional substance). Intelligence isn't substance, in and of itself. . . at least that's what I've realized. And I say that as someone who is very intelligent and very verbally inclined, myself. Substance is wisdom, heart, and empathy. Those things are developed. . . and so is charm, just the people who choose to develop charm usually do so to cover up for a lack of substance. Charming people -- especially those who can charm other smart people -- are usually very intelligent.
OceanGirl Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Trust me on this. I made a conscious choice and overcorrected with Skiman, in a big way. Granted, he wasn't a perfect person, but he was truly the opposite of every jacka** guy who came before him. He was so different. Because of that, he intrigued me, and I became intensely attracted to him and his type of person. (Putting "the end" aside) He really showed me how a good guy treats a woman he's truly into and loves; I got so used to it that I can't imagine ever settling for less. And now? I'm no longer attracted to the douches... AT ALL. It's as though he literally fixed me. SG were you genuinely attracted to Skiman? Did you feel sparks and butterflys?
Yer_Blues Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 You may be on to something, but I think it goes beyond charm, because I associate charm with a lack of substance. These guys have intellectual depth, but they lack the emotional component. Yeah this is exactly it. People with emotional intelligence and self awareness are probably going to end up better partners than the cocky, arrogant type. At least I hope so. When I read about people like this, I get excited for my dating prospects in the future. If most young people with analytical skill and verbal intelligence are narcissistic, I can't wait to surprise someone.
Star Gazer Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 SG were you genuinely attracted to Skiman? Did you feel sparks and butterflys? Yes... once I got passed the hideous shirt he wore on our first date.
Author northern_sky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 Trust me on this. I made a conscious choice and overcorrected with Skiman, in a big way. Granted, he wasn't a perfect person, but he was truly the opposite of every jacka** guy who came before him. He was so different. Because of that, he intrigued me, and I became intensely attracted to him and his type of person. (Putting "the end" aside) He really showed me how a good guy treats a woman he's truly into and loves; I got so used to it that I can't imagine ever settling for less. And now? I'm no longer attracted to the douches... AT ALL. It's as though he literally fixed me. I'm not so sure. My ex was my backlash to the other aholes I dated. He seemed like their opposite -- sweet, reliable, devoted -- but he ultimately let me down even worse than they did. This leaves me feeling lost about what to look for in a guy.
Star Gazer Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 I'm not so sure. My ex was my backlash to the other aholes I dated. He seemed like their opposite -- sweet, reliable, devoted -- but he ultimately let me down even worse than they did. This leaves me feeling lost about what to look for in a guy. All he did was dote on you. He wasn't a GOOD PERSON at his core. That's why he seemed like an opposite, but wasn't. That's the difference I'm talking about.
welikeincrowds Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Look, northern underscore sky, listen to me. Because I exist I know that you can find a fundamentally nice person who will not bore you. But you're ****ing crazy, so until you get your **** together, I would almost prefer to keep that knowledge to myself, such that you don't go and disrupt some poor boy's life.
Recommended Posts