For the married men who once preferred to go through life spouseless...

[zengirl]

I don't completely understand this either. I think that a lot of kids come from broken homes and don't see what they have missed out on and so they aren't as afraid when it comes to divorcing, they may think "I got through it and so can my kids, I shouldn't be unhappy in front of them and this relationship makes me unhappy." Often people need to take more responsibility for their own happiness.

 

My parents divorced, and it's the only reason I didn't come from a broken home. My parents had a broken home when they were married. I had a terrible father (still do, I guess, though I don't think of him as my "Dad" so much as my bio-Dad). He and my mother got divorced, she re-married a wonderful man (bio-Dad remarried twice, well, three times but two more women, and got divorced from both of them, and is now alone, and just as messed up as ever), and I have an excellent step-father and come from a highly functional two-parent home because of divorce.

 

So, I always find it a bit silly when people say, "You don't know what you missed out on." Nope, I know exactly what I missed, and I am so thankful for it. Plenty of people with single parents are better off than the unhealthy relationships that would've continued.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm afraid of divorce, but if you have a bad marriage, it's better than the alternative for the kids. I was emotionally scarred by my parents' marriage than their divorce. Thank God I saw a good marriage, or else I'd probably be afraid to get married, ever. Their bad marriage did teach me to (a) Avoid men who lie at the beginning of relationships, like my Dad, and then change later (b) Avoid getting married young, and © What marriage and relationships shouldn't be like. But, luckily, I came from a "broken" home or else I'd never have gotten to see a joyous, beautiful marriage and see what a wonderful husband and father could be like instead.

Edited January 2, 2011 by zengirl

[kdark]

I personally agree with that girl. I have dug my heels in to save my marriage because it is my family and I want my daughter to have a family, not just different points on a map where she stays on different nights.

 

I vehemently disagree. You aren't doing your daughter a favor by staying in a dysfunctional relationship. I never saw my parents show any affection toward each other for 14 years, and it wasn't until they divorced that I started seeing what a normal relationship was like. I am much more damaged because of my parents marriage than I am from their divorce. And some of the spouses my parents picked afterwards were terrible. One of them is in jail for attempted murder now, and one of them is a blood sucking man-eater. But I'd rather deal with that than my parents dysfunctional marriage anyday.

[kdark]

My parents divorced, and it's the only reason I didn't come from a broken home. My parents had a broken home when they were married. I had a terrible father (still do, I guess, though I don't think of him as my "Dad" so much as my bio-Dad). He and my mother got divorced, she re-married a wonderful man (bio-Dad remarried twice, well, three times but two more women, and got divorced from both of them, and is now alone, and just as messed up as ever), and I have an excellent step-father and come from a highly functional two-parent home because of divorce.

 

So, I always find it a bit silly when people say, "You don't know what you missed out on." Nope, I know exactly what I missed, and I am so thankful for it. Plenty of people with single parents are better off than the unhealthy relationships that would've continued.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm afraid of divorce, but if you have a bad marriage, it's better than the alternative for the kids. I was emotionally scarred by my parents' marriage than their divorce. Thank God I saw a good marriage, or else I'd probably be afraid to get married, ever. Their bad marriage did teach me to (a) Avoid men who lie at the beginning of relationships, like my Dad, and then change later (b) Avoid getting married young, and © What marriage and relationships shouldn't be like. But, luckily, I came from a "broken" home or else I'd never have gotten to see a joyous, beautiful marriage and see what a wonderful husband and father could be like instead.

 

Good for you that you saw what a good marriage looks like. I finally got to see one too, but it was way too late to help.

[dreamingoftigers]

I vehemently disagree. You aren't doing your daughter a favor by staying in a dysfunctional relationship. I never saw my parents show any affection toward each other for 14 years, and it wasn't until they divorced that I started seeing what a normal relationship was like. I am much more damaged because of my parents marriage than I am from their divorce. And some of the spouses my parents picked afterwards were terrible. One of them is in jail for attempted murder now, and one of them is a blood sucking man-eater. But I'd rather deal with that than my parents dysfunctional marriage anyday.

 

That's why I am working on myself and our relationship. I have seen that dedication from my husband as well, with him facing what he was going to lose. If the relationship was going to continue to be dysfunctional with no sign of hope and me resigning completely to the "inevitable" then I would agree with you, leaving would be better. But when you are both determined to break the stupid patterns that cause family destruction then no, staying together is not stupid.

 

My parents were incredibly abusive/dysfunctional and have stayed together. My order of preference would have been

 

1. Them stop being asshats and treat me and each other like human beings

 

2. Them both dying and me being sent to live with my Aunt.

 

3. Them divorcing and my father going far far away and being a deadbeat Dad that I never had to visit.

 

4. Me having the childhood that I had.

 

5. Me being raised by my divorced father. (I would have committed suicide by the time I was 14, no kidding).

 

Bearing this in mind, I am doing everything in my power to fix my own dysfunctional patterns and those of my family. My life goal is happiness that I can pass on to my daughter.

 

I often wonder if who my mother could have married after would have been in any way worse, it is hard to envision.

[dreamingoftigers]

My parents divorced, and it's the only reason I didn't come from a broken home. My parents had a broken home when they were married. I had a terrible father (still do, I guess, though I don't think of him as my "Dad" so much as my bio-Dad). He and my mother got divorced, she re-married a wonderful man (bio-Dad remarried twice, well, three times but two more women, and got divorced from both of them, and is now alone, and just as messed up as ever), and I have an excellent step-father and come from a highly functional two-parent home because of divorce.

 

So, I always find it a bit silly when people say, "You don't know what you missed out on." Nope, I know exactly what I missed, and I am so thankful for it. Plenty of people with single parents are better off than the unhealthy relationships that would've continued.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm afraid of divorce, but if you have a bad marriage, it's better than the alternative for the kids. I was emotionally scarred by my parents' marriage than their divorce. Thank God I saw a good marriage, or else I'd probably be afraid to get married, ever. Their bad marriage did teach me to (a) Avoid men who lie at the beginning of relationships, like my Dad, and then change later (b) Avoid getting married young, and © What marriage and relationships shouldn't be like. But, luckily, I came from a "broken" home or else I'd never have gotten to see a joyous, beautiful marriage and see what a wonderful husband and father could be like instead.

 

Statistically you are very lucky, usually the second marriages have a higher failure rate. That's awesome that your mother chose better the second time around.

 

ONe of my close friends has a similar relationship with her father and step-father but the second marriage tanked as well. She has no sense of relationship stability whatsoever and seems very very lost. I look at her and I do not want that for my daughter.

[Madgick1]

There is no benefit for a man to get married..

 

Married men live longer and are wealthier than single men or men in long term relationships.

[MrNate]

You are absolutely right and I've heard it before: It's how you make the man feel that will make him fall in love or commit.

 

Now the things is - how does one appeal to his heart?

 

I think it is very idiosyncratic and not all scientific. There is also a bit of luck and timing involved - but I do agree.

 

Exactly. That's the challenge. But I guess one of the biggest clues we can garner is, in most cases the emotional attraction has to ascend the feelings of physical attraction, sex, etc to be absolutely safe. However, if you were to find out the answer to this, you would be a multi-billionaire at minimum.

[AverageJoe]

Married men live longer and are wealthier than single men or men in long term relationships.

 

Wealthier? Do tell.

 

she has dropped her career to raise them through some tough years plus domestic chores for the family (that you both have agreed on) then 50-50 is still fair.

 

That was her choice.

[kdark]

Maybe single guys have more fun and engage in riskier hobbies. So what?

 

Agreed. A long life doesn't necessarily mean a good life.

[AverageJoe]

Maybe single guys have more fun and engage in riskier hobbies. So what?

 

No, no I want to hear about how this guy is wealthier because of it.

[dreamingoftigers]

she has dropped her career to raise them through some tough years plus domestic chores for the family (that you both have agreed on) then 50-50 is still fair.

 

That was her choice.

 

 

Pay attention! If you both choose to have children and agree that one parent should stay home and you both agree that for whatever reason (be it financial, traditional, musical, whatever) that it should be her. Then 50-50 was still fair.

 

Not my issue personally, I didn't stay home with my daughter. In fact, in the future if we decide to have more children (which is quite likely) there is a good chance my husband will want to stay home with them. As long as he is doing the domestic duties and we can afford it, I am fine with that. I am not much of a homebody anyways. In fact even while I post on here, it is in between work correspondence etc. If we decide that he is to stay home with our children and raise them & do the domestic duties and we split up, I have no problem giving 50% of what I make.

[dreamingoftigers]

No, no I want to hear about how this guy is wealthier because of it.

 

Statistically yes, actually I have also been doing breakdowns of communities in my city for marketing purposes. Average household and individual incomes. In communities where married couples live in a higher percentage the average individual income is much higher. This could be based on some correlating factors:

 

i.e. having one spouse working while the other can upgrade their educations. I could see being a divorced dad would make it much harder to go back to school to upgrade if you want to see your kids and you have to pay maintenance, whereas if you are married your spouse can work and support you through school. I have seen it numerous times with my clients. Off of the top of my head, the wife and him have 3 sons (she is on maternity, but maternity leave in Canada is not bad) but she still makes enough to carry them all while he finishes his MBA. And they can afford cleaners.

 

Divorcing would lead to a financial upheaval, so that would skew that stats I mention.

 

Overall though, having two people share similar resources and bring in double income would make both individually wealthier. That is, if they don't divorce. Even so, men tend to fare much better.

[AverageJoe]

Statistically yes, actually I have also been doing breakdowns of communities in my city for marketing purposes. Average household and individual incomes. In communities where married couples live in a higher percentage the average individual income is much higher. This could be based on some correlating factors:

 

i.e. having one spouse working while the other can upgrade their educations. I could see being a divorced dad would make it much harder to go back to school to upgrade if you want to see your kids and you have to pay maintenance, whereas if you are married your spouse can work and support you through school. I have seen it numerous times with my clients. Off of the top of my head, the wife and him have 3 sons (she is on maternity, but maternity leave in Canada is not bad) but she still makes enough to carry them all while he finishes his MBA. And they can afford cleaners.

 

Divorcing would lead to a financial upheaval, so that would skew that stats I mention.

 

Overall though, having two people share similar resources and bring in double income would make both individually wealthier. That is, if they don't divorce. Even so, men tend to fare much better.

 

You got somewhat out of the park there, didnt you? Only to agree. I didnt mention kids, you did.

 

Tell me. Again. what benefit does a man have in getting married.

[zengirl]

That was her choice.

 

Married people generally make such choices together. Both parties selected as such.

 

You got somewhat out of the park there, didnt you? Only to agree. I didnt mention kids, you did.

 

Tell me. Again. what benefit does a man have in getting married.

 

Her examples may have had children, but her overall point is unchanged whether kids are in the picture or not. Married people have higher individual incomes, statistically. This is likely because of the stability that marriage can bring to life, financially, for both, if the marriage works.

 

Obviously, divorce can hurt finances, and generally does for men AND women.

 

Being married = rewarding (in many statistical ways, I mean, not saying it's for everyone). Being divorced = risk involved. It's a question of risk vs. reward, in general. Some may say the reward is too little, for them, or the risk is too high, for them, and I respect that. But statistics bear out that most men in their 20s and 30s actively WANT to be married, in fact it is marginally higher than the number of women in the same age range who WANT to be married (most of these men want kids as well, coincidentally, so yes, the two ideas are quite linked).

[AverageJoe]

Married people generally make such choices together. Both parties selected as such.

 

 

 

Her examples may have had children, but her overall point is unchanged whether kids are in the picture or not. Married people have higher individual incomes, statistically. This is likely because of the stability that marriage can bring to life, financially, for both, if the marriage works.

 

Obviously, divorce can hurt finances, and generally does for men AND women.

 

Being married = rewarding (in many statistical ways, I mean, not saying it's for everyone). Being divorced = risk involved. It's a question of risk vs. reward, in general. Some may say the reward is too little, for them, or the risk is too high, for them, and I respect that. But statistics bear out that most men in their 20s and 30s actively WANT to be married, in fact it is marginally higher than the number of women in the same age range who WANT to be married (most of these men want kids as well, coincidentally, so yes, the two ideas are quite linked).

 

Where is the benefit?

[zengirl]

Where is the benefit?

 

The benefit just discussed was the statistically higher individual (this is not simply combined, but even more powerful combined!) income.

 

There is also the benefit that married men, overall, report less stress and higher happiness levels than single men, overall. Which may or may not be tied with the average longer lifespan.

 

There are numerous other benefits. Just because they perhaps aren't for you doesn't negate their existence. And their existence doesn't negate that they aren't for you.

[dreamingoftigers]

:laugh: Where did you get the idea that I was arguing for the male benefitting from being married? I were merely stating what the correlating factors may be and why the males may be wealthier by being married instead of single.

 

I am familiar with some of the correlating stats and have looked up the divorce stats because I have considered it given my situation.

 

I don't like it when people share false information with each other, that's why I provided it not as pure evidence, but as a possible correlation.

 

Do I think that there are benefits to getting married for both genders? Yes I do but they both have to be healthy people with more than just a passing connection.

 

There is no point getting married if you have to sacrifice who you are or your happiness to do it.

 

I think a lot of married people get married based on the theory that being married will make them happy or happier. If you ain't happy, you ain't gonna be happy married.

 

I don't think people should have kids unless they are happy people in a married, healthy relationship. Marriage is not the deciding factor, but I do believe that it amplifies whatever each of the individuals had going into the marriage. If they are happy, healthy people, odds are they will have a happy healthy marriage and a good environment for bringing up children together. If not: well we know the results of that.

 

Many people look at having children and not being married by saying: 50% of marriages end in divorce. (In Canada that stat is actually closer to 37.5%) but they fail to look at the stats for the survival for long-term relationships with children. In fact, women in long-term relationships with children have the highest rates of depression out of any female relation-type demographic, including single mothers. I found that interesting. Married women rated the highest.

 

Men overall do reap health benefits and report higher levels of happiness. But hey, some men hate being married and hate their wives, probably not the type that should be married.

 

I wouldn't knock the institution as a whole because you aren't into it. It is just like anything else: it is what you make it.

[AverageJoe]

The benefit just discussed was the statistically higher individual (this is not simply combined, but even more powerful combined!) income.

 

There is also the benefit that married men, overall, report less stress and higher happiness levels than single men, overall. Which may or may not be tied with the average longer lifespan.

 

There are numerous other benefits. Just because they perhaps aren't for you doesn't negate their existence. And their existence doesn't negate that they aren't for you.

 

Combined? I already have money.

 

Yet, females want it if they dont get their way. At least 50%. Is that about right?

 

They are accustomed to a certain style of living, right? They make that up and the court system agrees.

All because a state issues a notary stamped seal from the state capital and says it is so.

You know what is in fact in it? A business contract. A corporation was just formed signed by a representative of your state. Thats right, lawyers pour over it wanting to know every penny that is made. Where is the romance in that?

 

Only to find out she loves you so much you are left picking up the pieces.

 

I havent been married, do you think I want any part of that?

[Woggle]

There is a lot to gain from a happy and loving marriage but how often does it turn out that way these days?

[zengirl]

Combined? I already have money.

 

Yet, females want it if they dont get their way. At least 50%. Is that about right?

 

They are accustomed to a certain style of living, right? They make that up and the court system agrees.

All because a state issues a notary stamped seal from the state capital and says it is so.

You know what is in fact in it? A business contract. A corporation was just formed signed by a representative of your state. Thats right, lawyers pour over it wanting to know every penny that is made. Where is the romance in that?

 

Only to find out she loves you so much you are left picking up the pieces.

 

I havent been married, do you think I want any part of that?

 

Well, there is cynicism in the world. And certainly I never got the impression you'd be marriage-oriented, nor am I saying everyone should be. However, I think it's very silly to dismiss something outright that does bring many people (men AND women) happiness. I'm all for being discerning about who you marry, and I'd never marry just to be married, personally. Too much of that happens.

 

Marriage is a contract, I agree, and people should acknowledge it as such. It provides legal and financial stability to a relationship, which may or may not be good.

 

And yes, certainly, I think we can all agree that divorce is no fun when it's happening.

[dreamingoftigers]

Combined? I already have money.

 

Yet, females want it if they dont get their way. At least 50%. Is that about right?

 

They are accustomed to a certain style of living, right? They make that up and the court system agrees.

All because a state issues a notary stamped seal from the state capital and says it is so.

You know what is in fact in it? A business contract. A corporation was just formed signed by a representative of your state. Thats right, lawyers pour over it wanting to know every penny that is made. Where is the romance in that?

 

Only to find out she loves you so much you are left picking up the pieces.

 

I havent been married, do you think I want any part of that?

 

When did this become the AverageJoe should get married thread?

 

Good for you, you have money. Want more? Become healthy (if you aren't already) and marry a healthy partner. Or, pick up a part time job, or run an internet scam, or write a book and get it published.

 

And you know what, if I am contributing 50% into a relationship (including my financial contribution) and he decides to split, you bet I want 50% of the leftovers.

 

It's only romantic if we keep it romantic, that requires a bit of work, patience and above all: love.

 

Otherwise, yeah that $10 under the mattress turns into two $5 bills. I have the right to protect my interest when someone wants to turn a lifetime committment and my family into just another broken contract. It has nothing to do with being female. It has everything to do with protecting my own interests. And really what kind of example is that to set for any kid? If they leave you, just roll over, give them everything, and die.

 

I wouldn't take more then 50% from a failed marriage where there was no adultery. That would simply be stealing.

 

As for a marriage where he cheats, you bet I will strangle the financial life out of him: call it Dirty Slut Tax for my pain and suffering. I would expect him to react the same and I would know the consequences.

 

And no: I am not a sex-withholding bitch, in fact this relationship is the other way around.

[AverageJoe]

When did this become the AverageJoe should get married thread?

 

Good for you, you have money. Want more? Become healthy (if you aren't already) and marry a healthy partner. Or, pick up a part time job, or run an internet scam, or write a book and get it published.

 

And you know what, if I am contributing 50% into a relationship (including my financial contribution) and he decides to split, you bet I want 50% of the leftovers.

 

It's only romantic if we keep it romantic, that requires a bit of work, patience and above all: love.

 

Otherwise, yeah that $10 under the mattress turns into two $5 bills. I have the right to protect my interest when someone wants to turn a lifetime committment and my family into just another broken contract. It has nothing to do with being female. It has everything to do with protecting my own interests. And really what kind of example is that to set for any kid? If they leave you, just roll over, give them everything, and die.

 

I wouldn't take more then 50% from a failed marriage where there was no adultery. That would simply be stealing.

 

As for a marriage where he cheats, you bet I will strangle the financial life out of him: call it Dirty Slut Tax for my pain and suffering. I would expect him to react the same and I would know the consequences.

 

And no: I am not a sex-withholding bitch, in fact this relationship is the other way around.

 

This is what you have to look forward to fella's.

 

Live it up.

[dreamingoftigers]

There is a lot to gain from a happy and loving marriage but how often does it turn out that way these days?

 

It isn't really as publicized as racy divorce though right?

 

The Hollywood tabloids aren't exactly reading:

 

Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson: Happy since 1988

 

Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward: In love from 1958 until he died!

 

Lisa Niemi stays by Patrick Swayze as his first and only wife from 1975 until 2009 when he lost his battle to cancer. He said: "We have an unspoken language even after all of these years."

 

John Travolta and Kelly Preston pull through the death of their son and lovingly support each other since 1991.

[Woggle]

This is what you have to look forward to fella's.

 

Live it up.

 

Actually I can see where she is coming from to a certain extent. If a woman stays home and truly dedicates herself to the home then half of it hers and if he decides to cheat or trade her in then yes he should pay half. Even I can see the logic in that. On the other hand if she has an affair and all of a sudden decides she does not love him anymore than he should have the upper hand in divorce court and I would say the same thing if the genders were reversed. The problem with marriage today is that faithful and loving husbands who are betrayed have no protection in divorce from being bled dry.

[AverageJoe]

Actually I can see where she is coming from to a certain extent. If a woman stays home and truly dedicates herself to the home then half of it hers and if he decides to cheat or trade her in then yes he should pay half. Even I can see the logic in that. On the other hand if she has an affair and all of a sudden decides she does not love him anymore than he should have the upper hand in divorce court and I would say the same thing if the genders were reversed. The problem with marriage today is that faithful and loving husbands who are betrayed have no protection in divorce from being bled dry.

 

Woggle, let me ask you a hypothetical.

 

Lets say you worked your ass of for years earning a living, hard work, to ultimately achieve a reward. Lets say that reward was money, lots of it.

 

Then you met someone you know nothing of, and she knows of you for whatever reason, or dont.

 

Answer me this. Regardless of your behavior, do you owe her at a minimum 50% of what you have worked to get all of your life?