For the married men who once preferred to go through life spouseless...

[Woggle]

I can assure people if anything happens with my wife I will never marry again and I mean it.

[Seamless74]

Exactly. Most men would love to find that special person but we look at current trends and statistics and look at the marriages around us and many decide that we don't want to play russian roulette with our lives. Without piece of paper a man can easily walk away if she starts giving him grief and mistreating but in a marriage it is very hard and when he does get out he might indebted to her for the next couple of decades. Some men feel it is just not worth the risk.

 

 

Thats pretty much it in a nutshell.... Only thing that it leaves out its all the often overlooked good albeit boring things like having someone to help when you have problems in life or when you get sick and stuff like that, not being alone as you age.. But overall thats pretty much the reason guys dont like it..

 

 

I think were all scared that one day the woman just becomes unhappy or goes crazy or decides to withhold sex or something like that and we just become stuck with no out... and could sustain financial loss.. so i dunno..

[deebeechrisyo]

I'm not exactly a hopeless romantic, but I would certainly prefer a loving marriage over a lifetime cycle of FWB's/girlfriends. My parents met in a bar in their early 20's, and have been together since (they are in their 50's), and even they comment on how everyone they know is going on at least one divorce. Sadly, they are the exception these days rather than the norm.

 

While I love the idea of marriage, I can certainly attest that I am afraid of what a failed marriage brings. Also, the current attitude on marriage is disheartening. I know A LOT of people who don't view marriage as a lifetime bond, and that is scary. If I do get married one day, it will be for the rest of my life, and I expect my partner to have similar beliefs. If people don't expect this, then what is the difference between marriage and a long-term relationship?

[ComeUndone]

I really want to address this post directly so I hope you read this.

 

I dated a man for five years. He proposed to me three years into the relationship without prompting from me at all, but earlier this year, he broke up with me.

 

He couldn't handle the responsibility and sacrifice it would mean for us to actually live together and try to get married and stuff. We were fighting about it at the time. We both realized that we either needed to do it now or never. I didn't give him an ultimatum, it was like an ultimatum on our relationship (since both our lives were changing at the time) suddenly appeared out of thin air. And he panicked and said he couldn't do it anymore and had to leave me.

 

He was okay with marriage, you have to understand, but everyone around him wasn't. His best friend, David, constantly nagged him about it and how it would ruin his life and their friendship if he married me. His mentor who was single all his life told him whenever he saw him that he was too young to be engaged and how his life as a bachelor had been the best thing to ever happen to him. His parents told him they'd basically disown him if he got married before 30 because everyone, supposedly, gets divorced if they try to marry before the age of 30. His biological father (different from the two people I just called his parents) is a single guy who is known for picking up women immorally all the time and treating them like crap. Absolutely none of his friends have a stable and healthy, long lasting relationship. He was the only one that way.

 

You have to remember, he was okay, without any prompting from me with marrying me, but all these people around him WEREN'T okay with it. He told me the things they would tell him and told me none of their words affected him, but if that was true, then he wouldn't have left me. The people in your man's life make a BIG difference in his viewpoints towards marriage. If all his friends are married and happy, versus divorced and bitter, it does influence his views a lot. And it will always be that way unfortunately, even though you'll have no control over it.

 

That doesn't mean things are hopeless for you. My Dad was the same way, but still remained married to my Mom and it's over 35 years later! BUT they didn't have a happy marriage. My Dad constantly doubted whether he had wasted his youth marrying my Mom (yes, I heard the things they were fighting about) and they almost got divorced a lot.

 

While my current boyfriend, while our relationship isn't ideal and we haven't been dating a long time and I have no idea where things will go, has so far had much less problems with commitment and things than my ex did. He easily told me he loved me, actually asked me to move in with him fairly quickly, and calls me his soul mate. He doesn't seem like the commitment phobic type. And guess what? He's surrounded by people in happy long term relationships. His brother has been married for a decade. One of his good friends just got married. And his two best friends have long term steady girlfriends. They never, ever tell him not to be committed to me or that it's foolish to be with me. In fact, he was single for a few years before he met me and they all keep joking about how awesome it is that he has a girlfriend now and therefore has to go through all the girlfriend stuff they do as well. They tell me that he was out flirting with other girls just to try to get him into trouble with me because they think it is funny. Danny, the one that just got married, is completely whipped by his girlfriend and all of them are fine with it. They act like it makes sense.

 

I don't think men are instinctively terrified of relationships. I think society makes them that way with all the complaining and caution and talk to men about how getting married will destroy their lives. And I think that that talking destroys marriages and possible marriages that could improve men's lives otherwise. I'm not saying anyone should settle, but being terrified every moment of marriage when you're otherwise happy with who you are with (which my ex said he was, he said he still loved everything about me after we broke up and thought I was a perfect woman, but that commitment to any woman would take stuff from his life away from him and he didn't want that) and it just disturbs me.

 

Yeah I hear what you are saying, and I agree with you. His dad is a huge influence on him as they are really close. The real kicker is that he works for his dad and therefore I can see where he is concerned about his son (who is due to inherit the company) getting married. Of course there are prenups for that if this really was the number 1 concern. Also, I think his dad is afraid he'll get married and then leave him.

 

As for his friends, some of them are married, and happily at that. Of the ones who aren't, plenty are in LTR's. There are those, however, that are either divorced or in a bad relationship that routinely voice their negative opinions on marriage. Although they have their own reasons and own experiences, it's disheartening to me that they're so influential, particularly because our relationship is really good. They're just dumping their negativity on someone in a happy relationship.

 

My boyfriend and I have talked about marriage quite a few times and he continually indicates that he is his own person and just because that is their opinion, it doesn't mean marrying would work out the same for him, that it depends on how solid the relationship is. Whether or not he really believes that, I don't know.

[dreamingoftigers]

After my divorce I was so glad to be out of my horrible first marriage that I never wanted to commit to a woman ever again and chances are if I did not meet my wife I would still feel that way. When I met her though she actually made me change my mind about marriage. It was like the universe sent me a priceless gem I was not expecting at all.

 

That is one of the best things I have seen written on LS:)

[dreamingoftigers]

Im 25 and all the girls I had been dating were 23 or below.

 

Perhaps, it has to do with the age range of the girl I had been dating but as of now, Im still in the belief that women are just a parasitic burden and I dont intend to ever legally bind myself to any of them unless one day Im lucky enough to meet that priceless gem like Woggle did.

 

Wow.......

[musemaj11]

When it comes to marriage, a woman is like a firm that cannot relax until it gets the employee it wants to sign a contract to work for the firm for life.

 

Remember men, one in two marriages ends in a divorce and 97% of alimony payers are men.

 

So dont be a fool. Dont marry. Just keep the fairytale in your head, but dont act on it.

 

If you really cant stand it however, then marry a woman who is richer than you, although honestly good luck with finding a woman who will marry a man who has less because believe it or not, women are also aware of the financial risk of marriage and they are cunning enough not to enter a marriage if the odds are against them.

Edited January 1, 2011 by musemaj11

[ComeUndone]

When it comes to marriage, a woman is like a firm that cannot relax until it gets the employee it wants to sign a contract to work for the firm for life.

 

Remember men, one in two marriages ends in a divorce and 97% of alimony payers are men.

 

So dont be a fool. Dont marry. Just keep the fairytale in your head, but dont act on it.

 

If you really cant stand it however, then marry a woman who is richer than you, although honestly good luck with finding a woman who will marry a man who has less because believe it or not, women are also aware of the financial risk of marriage and they are cunning enough not to enter a marriage if the odds are against them.

 

You're not speaking for all women here, obviously. You sound pretty jaded.

[112233]

After 20 years of marriage and a divorce, I feel I've got a pretty good handle on what makes women work, at least the high points. A PhD in womanology, at a very high cost. I'm hesitant to marry again, but not ruling it out.

 

I do have a lot different idea what I want now, and I've shed most of the Hollywood BS programming and paid more attention to my parents and other successful marriages.

[zengirl]

See, I prefer a wife to work on the relationship because she wants to. Not because of a contractual obligation.

 

What people want is constantly in flux----long term contracts are a way for us to channel our long term goals, in my opinion. I agree no one should stay in a marriage if it's not what they want, overall, but it seems naive to think there won't ever be a time when it seems less than worth it and where, if walking away were easier, it might be a real likelihood, where it otherwise wouldn't. As I said, it's about making a real commitment, a real bet on what you want out ot the relationship . . . to me.

[catgotyourtongue]

LOL

 

Surely this approach will get you laid, lol NOT. I think it would be a great pickup line "hey there, I think you are a hot parasitic burden, want to go grab a drink?"....

 

In honesty I hope your view and circumstances will change and you can find a less parastic chick to date, who knocks your socks off and makes you a better man. But at 25, you are not ready or looking for that stuff, so enjoy and try to behave and be nice...

 

Im 25 and all the girls I had been dating were 23 or below.

 

Perhaps, it has to do with the age range of the girl I had been dating but as of now, Im still in the belief that women are just a parasitic burden and I dont intend to ever legally bind myself to any of them unless one day Im lucky enough to meet that priceless gem like Woggle did.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You missed my point.

I never said I would stick through a miserable marriage because of social convention. I said I would work harder to fix a marriage than a relationship because when you marry someone they become part of your family. I don't think marriage makes people happier, but it should make you a unit.

 

You claim guys talk a lot of crap... I'm calling bull on this.

 

Experience and logic shows that women put much more effort into fixing a relationship than a marriage. In ending a marriage a woman makes money... they don't put much effort into fixing it. I've personally experienced this. Many women will hang around forever expecting the husband to fix himself... but will barely lift a finger to actually fix it herself.

 

A relationship a woman leaves with what she came with... so I see most women work like animals to make a relationship work... unless it's the first 2-3 months.

 

So... I think you are just trying to spin that particular topic.

 

And there are levels of commitment. You can commit to spending your life together without getting married and like marriage that may or may not fall apart, but people who are committed to spending their lives together have a radically different level of commitment than people who see the relationship as just for now or until one of us gets bored or unless one of us decides to move.

 

I've seen tons of great relationships tank after 1 year of marriage. I think men and women stop working once vows are spoken.

 

Also, in a relationship the expectations are not as hard... and if it really sucks it is easy to end.

 

Personally, there would have to be some really, really big benefits for me to get married again.

[112233]

A relationship a woman leaves with what she came with... so I see most women work like animals to make a relationship work...

 

So... I think you are just trying to spin that particular topic.

 

 

I have to agree. Prenup?

[MrNate]

What makes a man want to marry a woman?

 

A woman who is able to deeply connect with a man on an emotional level. A level that probably has to ascend the amount of physical attraction he feels towards her. But, obviously, appealing to a man's heart that way is many, many times harder, than just his eyes. But for those women who are able to do that, I find, they are generally the ones who have had few boyfriends and are now married.

 

One recent example was my cousin who just got married to his gf of 5 years. Most of my family thought she wasn't that pretty, and that he could have done better. But my cousin didn't care, because she made him FEEL things he never felt from other girls. They're now happily married.

 

You want a man to be dreadfully loyal/committed to you? Appeal to his heart.

[Madgick1]

Experience and logic shows that women put much more effort into fixing a relationship than a marriage. In ending a marriage a woman makes money... they don't put much effort into fixing it. .

 

This is untrue.

 

Government figures (based on census and IRS data) prove that after a divorce in the US, on average a woman's income is reduced by 60% and a man's increases by 30%.

 

Frankly, it's not the wife that is so expensive to divorce; it's the children and child support that is the kicker. The smartest thing financially is to marry someone who works (whether she makes more than you or not) and never have children.

 

Then if you divorce, she supports herself and you support yourself and you split 50/50 anything accummulated during the marriage, and move on. Or have a prenupt. There are ways to protect your finances during marriage.

 

However, if you have kids, there's no getting out of supporting them. And that's expensive.

 

But it's expensive to have kids if you stay married too.

[Girlygirl1977]

What makes a man want to marry a woman?

 

A woman who is able to deeply connect with a man on an emotional level. A level that probably has to ascend the amount of physical attraction he feels towards her. But, obviously, appealing to a man's heart that way is many, many times harder, than just his eyes. But for those women who are able to do that, I find, they are generally the ones who have had few boyfriends and are now married.

 

One recent example was my cousin who just got married to his gf of 5 years. Most of my family thought she wasn't that pretty, and that he could have done better. But my cousin didn't care, because she made him FEEL things he never felt from other girls. They're now happily married.

 

You want a man to be dreadfully loyal/committed to you? Appeal to his heart.

 

You are absolutely right and I've heard it before: It's how you make the man feel that will make him fall in love or commit.

 

Now the things is - how does one appeal to his heart?

 

I think it is very idiosyncratic and not all scientific. There is also a bit of luck and timing involved - but I do agree.

[catgotyourtongue]

Enchanted:

 

good post, great points.

 

I agree a lot of it is abt how you grew up, what circles you keep and the influences...and society. Very good nuggets here.

 

I really want to address this post directly so I hope you read this.

 

.....While my current boyfriend, while our relationship isn't ideal and we haven't been dating a long time and I have no idea where things will go, has so far had much less problems with commitment and things than my ex did. He easily told me he loved me, actually asked me to move in with him fairly quickly, and calls me his soul mate. He doesn't seem like the commitment phobic type. And guess what? He's surrounded by people in happy long term relationships. His brother has been married for a decade. One of his good friends just got married. And his two best friends have long term steady girlfriends. They never, ever tell him not to be committed to me or that it's foolish to be with me.

[AverageJoe]

There is no benefit for a man to get married. I made this decision quite a while back.

[AverageJoe]

If you want kids I'd disagree, other than that, or wanting to fit in with a strictly traditional family, marriage is pretty obsolete. Having said that, I'll probably do it again eventually.

 

You dont need to be married to have kids. Happens all the time.

 

Having said that, I have an incredible niece. She is the only girl that gets her way with me. I love her dearly.

 

There really isnt anything I could gain from being married, as I could being unmarried.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm not exactly a hopeless romantic, but I would certainly prefer a loving marriage over a lifetime cycle of FWB's/girlfriends. My parents met in a bar in their early 20's, and have been together since (they are in their 50's), and even they comment on how everyone they know is going on at least one divorce. Sadly, they are the exception these days rather than the norm.

 

While I love the idea of marriage, I can certainly attest that I am afraid of what a failed marriage brings. Also, the current attitude on marriage is disheartening. I know A LOT of people who don't view marriage as a lifetime bond, and that is scary. If I do get married one day, it will be for the rest of my life, and I expect my partner to have similar beliefs. If people don't expect this, then what is the difference between marriage and a long-term relationship?

 

I don't completely understand this either. I think that a lot of kids come from broken homes and don't see what they have missed out on and so they aren't as afraid when it comes to divorcing, they may think "I got through it and so can my kids, I shouldn't be unhappy in front of them and this relationship makes me unhappy." Often people need to take more responsibility for their own happiness.

[dreamingoftigers]

You claim guys talk a lot of crap... I'm calling bull on this.

 

Experience and logic shows that women put much more effort into fixing a relationship than a marriage. In ending a marriage a woman makes money... they don't put much effort into fixing it. I've personally experienced this. Many women will hang around forever expecting the husband to fix himself... but will barely lift a finger to actually fix it herself.

 

Actually women may "make money" but our standard living drops significantly after a divorce, check the stats.

 

A relationship a woman leaves with what she came with... so I see most women work like animals to make a relationship work... unless it's the first 2-3 months.

 

So... I think you are just trying to spin that particular topic.

 

 

 

I've seen tons of great relationships tank after 1 year of marriage. I think men and women stop working once vows are spoken.

 

Also, in a relationship the expectations are not as hard... and if it really sucks it is easy to end.

 

Personally, there would have to be some really, really big benefits for me to get married again.

 

I personally agree with that girl. I have dug my heels in to save my marriage because it is my family and I want my daughter to have a family, not just different points on a map where she stays on different nights.

 

I want my family too. More then I would ever have wanted a bf. If I was just in a long term relationship, I would have walked the second I found out what my husband was about.

 

So in conclusion....maybe everyone is different?

[dreamingoftigers]

I have to agree. Prenup?

 

Going back, I would definitely have wanted a pre-nup. I actually want a post-nuptual agreement stating in effect:

 

If we are to divorce for reasons other then infidelity, we are to split everything 50-50%, aside from child custody depending on circumstance.

 

If it is joint, evenly distributed custody, then the split remains 50-50. In their is sole custody the one partner not having custody is to pay full child support.

 

If the marriage splits due to provable infidelity then the partner not cheating gets all of the assets and the partner who cheated gets all of the debt.

 

I would have signed in an instant.

[AverageJoe]

50/50 my ass

 

No female deserves 50% of my life's work.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

I made more money then he did, he was homeless when I met him and we built a business together, we literally work side by side. For 5 months it was only me working in the business in fact plus I have done 95% of the first-time estimates, thereby sacrificing many evenings. Plus, I set up most of our marketing and done most of our training/hiring. He has done some long hours as well in the month of Sept-Oct. He also trained 2 staff. He also has taken care of more of the domestic stuff when I am away in the evening.

 

Nothing could be fairer to him then 50-50%

 

You are assuming it wouldn't be on the decent side for the man. With more father's staying home to be SAHDs it is tipping the balance more towards parity.

 

I believe when you build a life with someone, if you and she are both working, then a 50-50 split is more then equitable, whoever makes more.

 

If she is working part-time and taking care of the domestic chores, then 50-50 is still fair.

 

If you have children together and she has dropped her career to raise them through some tough years plus domestic chores for the family (that you both have agreed on) then 50-50 is still fair.

 

The only time I would not think that it would be fair is when you are essentially supporting her. I would wonder why a man would get married to a woman he would only have to support anyways, I also wonder why any self-respecting woman would get married and just look her husband like a wallet.

[fishtaco]

Experience and logic shows that women put much more effort into fixing a relationship than a marriage. In ending a marriage a woman makes money... they don't put much effort into fixing it. I've personally experienced this. Many women will hang around forever expecting the husband to fix himself... but will barely lift a finger to actually fix it herself.

 

A relationship a woman leaves with what she came with... so I see most women work like animals to make a relationship work... unless it's the first 2-3 months.

 

I've seen tons of great relationships tank after 1 year of marriage. I think men and women stop working once vows are spoken.

 

Also, in a relationship the expectations are not as hard... and if it really sucks it is easy to end.

 

That's a very interesting observation.

 

I was a hardcore no marriage guy. After making a mistake and breaking up with someone that may prove to be the best woman in my life, who wanted marriage, I started thinking about this.

 

I'm still against marriage, I believe a man has nothing to gain from marriage. But I do believe it's beneficial for the kids. But I also don't want kids, so I literally have no use for marriage.

 

But my soul searching has reached this point - marriages are useful, for providing an artificial external bond, and making people try harder to reconcile their differences. Be it social or traditional pressure, sometimes, as in the case of my ex, if I had an outside pressure forcing me to work things out with her, we may have gotten over the "hump", and may still be together today.

 

But that's a lot of maybe's. So I have this general murky feeling that marriage could be good for something, in certain specific situations, but unless you are in that specific situation, and you are observing in hindsight, you can't say it'd be helpful.

 

I have to say U_F, this is not the first time your posts has given me food for thought. Thank you. You've brought out another point. Many people know that marriage provide a certain artificial bond. So once they get married, they relax and stop trying, hoping the bond itself would hold the marriage together, and usually to disastrous effects. Kind of like the people that stop working out once they land a relationship; just an extension of that type of personality. So in the hands of people like this, marriage actually has a detrimental effect, for providing a false sense of security.

 

So overall, my idea of marriage has moved a tad to the no side again. If anything, this shows that marriage is NOT for everyone. And I don't mean if people want or don't want marriage. I mean marriage is suitable for only people with a certain type of personality. It is certainly not for everyone like how it was sold to us by society.